Anderson - is he really the guy ?

[SJU Double Alumn]

Getting those big upsets a few years ago was big for a couple of days each. That's it. The reality is we were 4-14 in conference that year and the season was a wreck. 

First, we had a really strong OOC capped off by the Duke win. There's more to a season than just our Big East record. We easily had better results in November, December, and February compared to this year. That matters to fans.

Second, the excitement was not for "a couple days each". The Duke win was February 3 and we didn't lose until February 21, so it was nearly a three week period that we were nationally relevant. Even after our streak ended we won again a week later, and again a week after that to open the BET. Generally fans were pretty optimistic heading into Mullin year 4.

Third, I actually agree that the season overall wasn't good. What's so unfortunate though is that the #4 Duke win in front of a sold out MSG was more noteworthy than the 24 games we've played this season combined. The #1 Nova win on the road was more noteworthy than the 24 games we've played this season combined. This year has been the quietest year we've played in a long, long time. There's zero buzz surrounding this program. Zero highlights I'd like to rewatch. Nobody outside our program cares about St. John's for the first time since Norm, not even for a day.

As Monte alluded to, the number of texts I've received regarding St. John's this year has been the worst in a decade, and frankly it isn't close (and yes I still talk to most of those same people consistently about other things). It sucks that our program has absolutely nothing going for it this year. It's like it doesn't even exist.

None of the fans I know got that optimistic. The most crucial aspect of the season are the Big East games. We started 0-11. The season was a failure right there. We pulled off a couple of major upsets and got some buzz off those games that amounted to very little. The fans I know took those wins as nice to see but not as impactful because the season was already wrecked.

 

[lawmanfan]

Not at all, Monte - Adam's post was very thoughtful and well-stated. 
My only complaint is that some of you haven't figured out how to edit the quotes so the reader doesn't have to scroll through 75 lines to get to a short post that only relates to the last 5 of those lines.
And yes I know most of the 75-line posts are mine.

 

[monte]

Not at all, Monte - Adam's post was very thoughtful and well-stated. 
My only complaint is that some of you haven't figured out how to edit the quotes so the reader doesn't have to scroll through 75 lines to get to a short post that only relates to the last 5 of those lines.
And yes I know most of the 75-line posts are mine.

Hey, I just barely figured  how to use the quote function! As it is it usually takes me a dozen or so attempts before I can actually get that arrow to work. Now you expect me to figure out how to edit using it?? Have some pity on us technologically challenged  old dudes  

 

[ADORAZ]

Getting those big upsets a few years ago was big for a couple of days each. That's it. The reality is we were 4-14 in conference that year and the season was a wreck. 

First, we had a really strong OOC capped off by the Duke win. There's more to a season than just our Big East record. We easily had better results in November, December, and February compared to this year. That matters to fans.

Second, the excitement was not for "a couple days each". The Duke win was February 3 and we didn't lose until February 21, so it was nearly a three week period that we were nationally relevant. Even after our streak ended we won again a week later, and again a week after that to open the BET. Generally fans were pretty optimistic heading into Mullin year 4.

Third, I actually agree that the season overall wasn't good. What's so unfortunate though is that the #4 Duke win in front of a sold out MSG was more noteworthy than the 24 games we've played this season combined. The #1 Nova win on the road was more noteworthy than the 24 games we've played this season combined. This year has been the quietest year we've played in a long, long time. There's zero buzz surrounding this program. Zero highlights I'd like to rewatch. Nobody outside our program cares about St. John's for the first time since Norm, not even for a day.

As Monte alluded to, the number of texts I've received regarding St. John's this year has been the worst in a decade, and frankly it isn't close (and yes I still talk to most of those same people consistently about other things). It sucks that our program has absolutely nothing going for it this year. It's like it doesn't even exist.

None of the fans I know got that optimistic. The most crucial aspect of the season are the Big East games. We started 0-11. The season was a failure right there. We pulled off a couple of major upsets and got some buzz off those games that amounted to very little. The fans I know took those wins as nice to see but not as impactful because the season was already wrecked.

Sure, I can agree that not everyone was optimistic, but I will say the fan base overall was far, far more optimistic on February 14, 2018 compared to February 14, 2022 where it's mostly only you on here. It's a fair comparison given it was year 3 for both coaches, and as you noted year 3 wasn't a good one for Mullin. Personally I'd easily take our 2018 results, back when we had a pulse and people cared, but hopefully this team either wins out or wins the BET to salvage this season.

My point is that our total lack of Top 25 or nationally relevant wins is a first in a long time for this program, and that has contributed to our brutally poor attendance numbers. When you beat the #1/4 teams for instance, it's easy to say "hey, if we can sneak into the Tournament we can upset anyone! We just upset 2 #1 seeds!", but that's not at all the case this year.

 

[SJU Double Alumn]

 None of the fans I know got that optimistic. The most crucial aspect of the season are the Big East games. We started 0-11. The season was a failure right there. We pulled off a couple of major upsets and got some buzz off those games that amounted to very little. The fans I know took those wins as nice to see but not as impactful because the season was already wrecked.

Sure, I can agree that not everyone was optimistic, but I will say the fan base overall was far, far more optimistic on February 14, 2018 compared to February 14, 2022 where it's mostly only you on here. It's a fair comparison given it was year 3 for both coaches, and as you noted year 3 wasn't a good one for Mullin. Personally I'd easily take our 2018 results, back when we had a pulse and people cared, but hopefully this team either wins out or wins the BET to salvage this season.

My point is that our total lack of Top 25 or nationally relevant wins is a first in a long time for this program, and that has contributed to our brutally poor attendance numbers. When you beat the #1/4 teams for instance, it's easy to say "hey, if we can sneak into the Tournament we can upset anyone! We just upset 2 #1 seeds!", but that's not at all the case this year.

I don't think many people would prefer a 4-14 season. Do you go to the games? The fans I know are fed up now and were fed up then. 
Many fans on this forum constantly make armchair judgements and call for the coach to be fired after every missed shot.

 

[ADORAZ]

Proud Alumn- again, it's fine if you prefer this year to Mullin's 3rd year. That's debatable. We finished that year with a #92 RPI (no NET back then), while currently our NET is #87. That year we did have better wins though (much better Q1 record), so overall that resume I'd say was stronger (pending of course the final few weeks of this year).

Bottom line is both years were bad. Given that we weren't close to making the Tournament either year (or even the NIT), I don't think it really matters which results overall were worse. The point I was making is that at least during that year we were nationally relevant for a few weeks. There was excitement. We weren't as concerned about losing our best player the following year. We proved we could beat anyone (we literally did- the national champs). This year has totally lacked that. It's tough for a fan base to care when they haven't proven they can win big games, not even once. That's something important that I haven't seen mentioned much yet previously. It's not only about our record/resume, it's about whether we can beat anyone to give us hope that we can put together a special run in February/March.

 

[lawmanfan]

 

Hey, I just barely figured  how to use the quote function! As it is it usually takes me a dozen or so attempts before I can actually get that arrow to work. Now you expect me to figure out how to edit using it?? Have some pity on us technologically challenged  old dudes  
 

If you're using your phone, the magic fix that someone had posted in the STICKY THAT WE HAVE FOR THIS TOPIC is to click the "source" button that comes up above the box.  That sort of grays out the quoted post and you can type underneath it.  It's like magic.  I gave up on trying to click the arrow on my phone, it's impossible.

I think if you want to edit the previous post on a phone then the move is probably to edit it first, then click the source button, then go type underneath it.

Hope that helps, geezer.

 

[monte]

 

Hey, I just barely figured  how to use the quote function! As it is it usually takes me a dozen or so attempts before I can actually get that arrow to work. Now you expect me to figure out how to edit using it?? Have some pity on us technologically challenged  old dudes  

 

If you're using your phone, the magic fix that someone had posted in the STICKY THAT WE HAVE FOR THIS TOPIC is to click the "source" button that comes up above the box.  That sort of grays out the quoted post and you can type underneath it.  It's like magic.  I gave up on trying to click the arrow on my phone, it's impossible.

I think if you want to edit the previous post on a phone then the move is probably to edit it first, then click the source button, then go type underneath it.

Hope that helps, geezer.

From one geezer to another, thank you 

 

[SJU Double Alumn]

Proud Alumn- again, it's fine if you prefer this year to Mullin's 3rd year. That's debatable. We finished that year with a #92 RPI (no NET back then), while currently our NET is #87. That year we did have better wins though (much better Q1 record), so overall that resume I'd say was stronger (pending of course the final few weeks of this year).

Bottom line is both years were bad. Given that we weren't close to making the Tournament either year (or even the NIT), I don't think it really matters which results overall were worse. The point I was making is that at least during that year we were nationally relevant for a few weeks. There was excitement. We weren't as concerned about losing our best player the following year. We proved we could beat anyone (we literally did- the national champs). This year has totally lacked that. It's tough for a fan base to care when they haven't proven they can win big games, not even once. That's something important that I haven't seen mentioned much yet previously. It's not only about our record/resume, it's about whether we can beat anyone to give us hope that we can put together a special run in February/March.

You are judging this year as a comparison when you have no idea how it will finish. That shows your prejudicial bias. 

 

[RM86]

Would this even be a topic if we make a 1/4 or 1/2 of the layups missed this year? Probably cost 5 or 6 games so far.

 

[beast of the east]

To be fair after 2 away wins against weak opponents, Posh was the best player on the floor, and one of the best in the league. His unavailability for Nova and UCONN was a crushing blow to our season hopes.

 

[ADORAZ]

Proud Alumn- this is tiring. I initially judged the seasons through February 14, 2018 and February 14, 2022, and then you changed the parameters. Now you've changed them back. I also clearly stated in my last few posts that this year isn't over yet and things could change. Hopefully they do, but it's also possible things could get worse if we don't win the majority of our remaining games. We'll see what happens. 

 

[monte]

Would this even be a topic if we make a 1/4 or 1/2 of the layups missed this year? Probably cost 5 or 6 games so far.

Nope it wouldn't be a topic. Same as if we:
-hit our free throws
-boxed out
-made better end of game decisions
-etc, etc, etc


 

 

[beast of the east]

Would this even be a topic if we make a 1/4 or 1/2 of the layups missed this year? Probably cost 5 or 6 games so far.

Nope it wouldn't be a topic. Same as if we:
-hit our free throws
-boxed out
-made better end of game decisions
-etc, etc, etc



 

Conventional wisdom is that when a player takes the ball to the hoop they should score or get fouled 6 out of 10 times. I wonder what our % is this year. Seems below 50%, way below

 

[monte]

Would this even be a topic if we make a 1/4 or 1/2 of the layups missed this year? Probably cost 5 or 6 games so far.

Nope it wouldn't be a topic. Same as if we:
-hit our free throws
-boxed out
-made better end of game decisions
-etc, etc, etc




 

Conventional wisdom is that when a player takes the ball to the hoop they should score or get fouled 6 out of 10 times. I wonder what our % is this year. Seems below 50%, way below

Agreed, in spite of the fact that I've always considered my wisdom to be quite unconventional lol

 

[beast of the east]

Would this even be a topic if we make a 1/4 or 1/2 of the layups missed this year? Probably cost 5 or 6 games so far.

Nope it wouldn't be a topic. Same as if we:
-hit our free throws
-boxed out
-made better end of game decisions
-etc, etc, etc





 

Conventional wisdom is that when a player takes the ball to the hoop they should score or get fouled 6 out of 10 times. I wonder what our % is this year. Seems below 50%, way below

Agreed, in spite of the fact that I've always considered my wisdom to be quite unconventional lol

I do consider you a genius in street smarts.

 

[Johnny Rapper]

Here's the bottom line imho. CMA's first year was at least a push. Last year he overachieved unless you are of the view that being voted BE coach of the year by his peers is meaningless which would be fairly laughable. This year, barring a miraculous finish, will be a clear disappointment. In no way, shape or form does that justify considering changing coaches at this time, especially in a program with our recent lack of stability.     

What I don't understand is how fans of the program can think it is constructive to constantly be feeding threads like this and especially threads questioning why recruits would want to come to SJU. We all agree we need more talent and let's at least give coach a chance to see if he can do that.  Posh & Wusu were actually pretty good recruits, last year so/so based on results to date. Next year is key but staff deserves our support unless and until it is clear it is not warranted imho. 

Clearly yourself and others who didn’t read my initial post including the moderator who moved it to this thread didn’t read that this post was not meant for Anderson but for any coach who were to take the job in general. I specifically made mention of that. 

Jermaine I read your initial post and moved it. 
We don't need numerous threads to say the same thing. 
And though your topic may have been different your question would have been answered in this thread. Please remember the moderators are all very busy people doing a volunteer task and spend a great deal of time daily reading through the posts to ensure site rules are not violated. Especially on game days. All we ask is that posters don't make the task more difficult than it already is. 
Thank you. 

Not trying to make anybody’s  job difficult but didn’t want my question associated with the Anderson staff in particular. What I was trying to determine is if the posters on here feel that ANY hired St Johns coach should be required to make the NCAA tourney within a given time period snd feel that by putting it in this thread, would add prejudice to the responses. This question was not about coach Anderson in particular. 

 

[Johnny Rapper]

As mentioned by Fordham a few times…. Why were coaches Lavin and Mullin held to such high standards and Anderson held to such a low one? Even with regards to the 9 transfers, if the same happened under either of the fore mentioned coaches, many posters would be screaming. 

I find it interesting that as the season goes on and the excuses are running out, the Anderson protectors have reverted to citing how Jay Wright and Cooley took so many years to right the ship and how we all need to have patience. Patience? Are there any game changing recruits coming along that would make you believe that the future is bright? Even Norm Roberts who is generally believed by many to be the worst coach in school history had better recruiting classes then Anderson. 

I am not advocating getting rid of Anderson at all at this point, not that it would happen. All I would like to see is that he is held to the same standard of success that prior coaches were held to. 

 

[fordham96]

I would take it a step further Mike Anderson should be held to a higher standard because of his background as a winning High Major coach.  Seriously why would you cheer hiring him over say Yale coach James Jones but then compare him to a coach who did not make the NCAA's his first 5 years at SHU (Willard).  That does not make any sense, the reason you hire him is because of his experience as a winning coach and you think he can turn it around quickly.  

Also SHU and PC are probably the worst paying jobs in the conference.  Since Tommy Amaker went to Michigan the last 3 SHU coaches all came from the MAAC-Orr-Siena, Gonzo-Manhattan and Willard-Iona.  They simply don't have other options.  I would like to think SJU is more in the Marquette and even UCONN range.  

As the Braziller article indicated SJU could have hired Danny Hurley.  Yes he would have come, 100%.  I have it on very good authority.  And he turned Rutgers down.  

We should demand more.  Marquette fired a coach who in 2019 won a share of the BE title and was a 5 seed in the NCAA's, next year 2020 was a borderline NCAA team cancelled because of COVID before a disappointing 2021 season led to his dismissal.  2 years after winning a share of the BE regular season title Marquette fired it's HC.

SJU fired Lavin after a 21 win NCAA season.  But now we are being told we have to have patience.....Come on.

Jermane Attoil post=457833
As mentioned by Fordham a few times…. Why were coaches Lavin and Mullin held to such high standards and Anderson held to such a low one? Even with regards to the 9 transfers, if the same happened under either of the fore mentioned coaches, many posters would be screaming. 

I find it interesting that as the season goes on and the excuses are running out, the Anderson protectors have reverted to citing how Jay Wright and Cooley took so many years to right the ship and how we all need to have patience. Patience? Are there any game changing recruits coming along that would make you believe that the future is bright? Even Norm Roberts who is generally believed by many to be the worst coach in school history had better recruiting classes then Anderson. 

I am not advocating getting rid of Anderson at all at this point, not that it would happen. All I would like to see is that he is held to the same standard of success that prior coaches were held to. 

 

[Johnny Rapper]

I would take it a step further Mike Anderson should be held to a higher standard because of his background as a winning High Major coach.  Seriously why would you cheer hiring him over say Yale coach James Jones but then compare him to a coach who did not make the NCAA's his first 5 years at SHU (Willard).  That does not make any sense, the reason you hire him is because of his experience as a winning coach and you think he can turn it around quickly.  

Also SHU and PC are probably the worst paying jobs in the conference.  Since Tommy Amaker went to Michigan the last 3 SHU coaches all came from the MAAC-Orr-Siena, Gonzo-Manhattan and Willard-Iona.  They simply don't have other options.  I would like to think SJU is more in the Marquette and even UCONN range.  

As the Braziller article indicated SJU could have hired Danny Hurley.  Yes he would have come, 100%.  I have it on very good authority.  And he turned Rutgers down.  

We should demand more.  Marquette fired a coach who in 2019 won a share of the BE title and was a 5 seed in the NCAA's, next year 2020 was a borderline NCAA team cancelled because of COVID before a disappointing 2021 season led to his dismissal.  2 years after winning a share of the BE regular season title Marquette fired it's HC.

SJU fired Lavin after a 21 win NCAA season.  But now we are being told we have to have patience.....Come on.

Jermane Attoil post=457833
As mentioned by Fordham a few times…. Why were coaches Lavin and Mullin held to such high standards and Anderson held to such a low one? Even with regards to the 9 transfers, if the same happened under either of the fore mentioned coaches, many posters would be screaming. 

I find it interesting that as the season goes on and the excuses are running out, the Anderson protectors have reverted to citing how Jay Wright and Cooley took so many years to right the ship and how we all need to have patience. Patience? Are there any game changing recruits coming along that would make you believe that the future is bright? Even Norm Roberts who is generally believed by many to be the worst coach in school history had better recruiting classes then Anderson. 

I am not advocating getting rid of Anderson at all at this point, not that it would happen. All I would like to see is that he is held to the same standard of success that prior coaches were held to. 

Excellent post and points Fordham, I never even considered that.