Anderson - is he really the guy ?

[Las Vegan]

Patience.  Patience.  Patience.

Let coach coach, players play, and we root.

Beast I think this is what you're trying to say;  [attachment=2327]2C9968A9-8EA0-4139-9E58-378D402A1955.jpeg[/attachment]



Insanity later
 

 

[Ray Morgan]

CMA's system can work. Problem is you need high level athletes that are long  and quick and can run the floor. You need to have good defensive instincts to succeed in his system. Moore was a high level athlete that ran the floor well and was long. G Will had elite athleticism when he wasn't hurt. Earlington was a good athlete. I'm still not sure how well Soriano fits in this system.  I think Pinzon and Stanley are good fits and will improve with experience. Not so sure about the transfers. Besides having less athleticism, I don't see the passion this season that the team had last year and even the year before. There is a lot of dirty looks and bickering between players on turnovers. I don't remember that last season.

What has changed since CMA's early years coaching is that players have no loyalty or school pride. I blame that on international ball. Players feel the need to showcase themselves for their future pro careers, whether in Beijing or Bosnia. Every player we lost went to a lesser program. Earlington made it clear he was leaving to be showcased more. Like a lot of things, this trend hurts a coach like CMA that really needs continuity to succeed. Now if he was reloading with 4 star talent, that's a different story.

 

[Knight]

If the coach doesn’t have the players to work in his system, then he has to change his plans.  At this level you don’t have the luxury of being stubborn.

 

[monte]

If the coach doesn’t have the players to work in his system, then he has to change his plans.  At this level you don’t have the luxury of being stubborn.

I  may be wrong, but my sense is that this team was assembled quickly with the best available options, once last year's kids started departing. Unlike others, I have a hard time believing that all of these kids were hand chosen by CMA because they fit his style of play. Let's face facts, this year's newcomers feature 3 low ranked recruits, one mystery man, 2 players who were bench players at mediocre high majors, and 3 kids who were decent contributors at a much lower level. All the newcomers except for Wheeler and Mathis came with big question marks about whether or not they could contribute at this level. There was not one kid who we knew could be plugged in and would be a significant contributor from day 1. That is not recruiting with a plan, that is recruiting on a wing and a prayer. 

 

[RedStormNC]

Well said Monte.

And this is the danger w/ transfers...aside from needing to find kids quickly that might look ok on paper but not fit your desired style..you run the risk of upper classmen playing for gleague or international.

Flip side is a bunch of unheralded freshman can drive you crazy watching them go thru learning curve.
 

 

[Ray Morgan]

If the coach doesn’t have the players to work in his system, then he has to change his plans.  At this level you don’t have the luxury of being stubborn.

I  may be wrong, but my sense is that this team was assembled quickly with the best available options, once last year's kids started departing. Unlike others, I have a hard time believing that all of these kids were hand chosen by CMA because they fit his style of play. Let's face facts, this year's newcomers feature 3 low ranked recruits, one mystery man, 2 players who were bench players at mediocre high majors, and 3 kids who were decent contributors at a much lower level. All the newcomers except for Wheeler and Mathis came with big question marks about whether or not they could contribute at this level. There was not one kid who we knew could be plugged in and would be a significant contributor from day 1. That is not recruiting with a plan, that is recruiting on a wing and a prayer. 

Desperate times require desperate measures. CMA had a ton of sports to fill and did what he could to fill them. Filling minutes was accomplished, filling needs not so sure. 

 

[monte]

If the coach doesn’t have the players to work in his system, then he has to change his plans.  At this level you don’t have the luxury of being stubborn.

I  may be wrong, but my sense is that this team was assembled quickly with the best available options, once last year's kids started departing. Unlike others, I have a hard time believing that all of these kids were hand chosen by CMA because they fit his style of play. Let's face facts, this year's newcomers feature 3 low ranked recruits, one mystery man, 2 players who were bench players at mediocre high majors, and 3 kids who were decent contributors at a much lower level. All the newcomers except for Wheeler and Mathis came with big question marks about whether or not they could contribute at this level. There was not one kid who we knew could be plugged in and would be a significant contributor from day 1. That is not recruiting with a plan, that is recruiting on a wing and a prayer. 

Desperate times require desperate measures. CMA had a ton of sports to fill and did what he could to fill them. Filling minutes was accomplished, filling needs not so sure. 

Agreed Ray, but coaches don't get rewarded for effort, they get rewarded for results. Oh wait, except at SJU where you get rewarded with an extension without even dancing once. 

 

[Mullins Revenge]

I have to give coach credit tonight.  Things just werent working and instead of doing the same thing over and over again, he put 2 new guys in the starting lineup and cut back on the bench minutes.  That was the difference in this game.  

Excited to see the new starting 5 Wed night against a tough Monmouth team.  A few more games for them to gel before the start of the big east.

 

[Ray Morgan]

If the coach doesn’t have the players to work in his system, then he has to change his plans.  At this level you don’t have the luxury of being stubborn.

I  may be wrong, but my sense is that this team was assembled quickly with the best available options, once last year's kids started departing. Unlike others, I have a hard time believing that all of these kids were hand chosen by CMA because they fit his style of play. Let's face facts, this year's newcomers feature 3 low ranked recruits, one mystery man, 2 players who were bench players at mediocre high majors, and 3 kids who were decent contributors at a much lower level. All the newcomers except for Wheeler and Mathis came with big question marks about whether or not they could contribute at this level. There was not one kid who we knew could be plugged in and would be a significant contributor from day 1. That is not recruiting with a plan, that is recruiting on a wing and a prayer. 

Desperate times require desperate measures. CMA had a ton of sports to fill and did what he could to fill them. Filling minutes was accomplished, filling needs not so sure. 

Agreed Ray, but coaches don't get rewarded for effort, they get rewarded for results. Oh wait, except at SJU where you get rewarded with an extension without even dancing once. 

In the end,  players win games more than coaches.  If CMA is limited to bringing in 3 star payers,  he will not last past his contract.  Some posters want to believe the ratings don't count. The services will underestimate a 3 star sometimes and overrate a 4 star on occasion, but Self and Calipari don't knock on 3 star player's doors figuring the services are wrong.  As you say, CMA doesn't deserve a pass for effort.  He has to win, and in the Big East, you need great players to do that.
 

 

[Porgyman]

If the coach doesn’t have the players to work in his system, then he has to change his plans.  At this level you don’t have the luxury of being stubborn.

I  may be wrong, but my sense is that this team was assembled quickly with the best available options, once last year's kids started departing. Unlike others, I have a hard time believing that all of these kids were hand chosen by CMA because they fit his style of play. Let's face facts, this year's newcomers feature 3 low ranked recruits, one mystery man, 2 players who were bench players at mediocre high majors, and 3 kids who were decent contributors at a much lower level. All the newcomers except for Wheeler and Mathis came with big question marks about whether or not they could contribute at this level. There was not one kid who we knew could be plugged in and would be a significant contributor from day 1. That is not recruiting with a plan, that is recruiting on a wing and a prayer. 

Desperate times require desperate measures. CMA had a ton of sports to fill and did what he could to fill them. Filling minutes was accomplished, filling needs not so sure. 

Agreed Ray, but coaches don't get rewarded for effort, they get rewarded for results. Oh wait, except at SJU where you get rewarded with an extension without even dancing once. 

In the end,  players win games more than coaches.  If CMA is limited to bringing in 3 star payers,  he will not last past his contract.  Some posters want to believe the ratings don't count. The services will underestimate a 3 star sometimes and overrate a 4 star on occasion, but Self and Calipari don't knock on 3 star player's doors figuring the services are wrong.  As you say, CMA doesn't deserve a pass for effort.  He has to win, and in the Big East, you need great players to do that.

 

Self and Calipari don’t knock on 3 star recruits doors because they coach at Kansas and Kentucky. We are nowhere near either. 

 

[beast of the east]

If the coach doesn’t have the players to work in his system, then he has to change his plans.  At this level you don’t have the luxury of being stubborn.

I  may be wrong, but my sense is that this team was assembled quickly with the best available options, once last year's kids started departing. Unlike others, I have a hard time believing that all of these kids were hand chosen by CMA because they fit his style of play. Let's face facts, this year's newcomers feature 3 low ranked recruits, one mystery man, 2 players who were bench players at mediocre high majors, and 3 kids who were decent contributors at a much lower level. All the newcomers except for Wheeler and Mathis came with big question marks about whether or not they could contribute at this level. There was not one kid who we knew could be plugged in and would be a significant contributor from day 1. That is not recruiting with a plan, that is recruiting on a wing and a prayer. 

Desperate times require desperate measures. CMA had a ton of sports to fill and did what he could to fill them. Filling minutes was accomplished, filling needs not so sure. 

Agreed Ray, but coaches don't get rewarded for effort, they get rewarded for results. Oh wait, except at SJU where you get rewarded with an extension without even dancing once. 

Monte, I didn't hear of the terms of the extension.   Do you think maybe the extended years are not guaranteed right away, and were granted to assure recruits that he is here for the duration?

 

[monte]

If the coach doesn’t have the players to work in his system, then he has to change his plans.  At this level you don’t have the luxury of being stubborn.

I  may be wrong, but my sense is that this team was assembled quickly with the best available options, once last year's kids started departing. Unlike others, I have a hard time believing that all of these kids were hand chosen by CMA because they fit his style of play. Let's face facts, this year's newcomers feature 3 low ranked recruits, one mystery man, 2 players who were bench players at mediocre high majors, and 3 kids who were decent contributors at a much lower level. All the newcomers except for Wheeler and Mathis came with big question marks about whether or not they could contribute at this level. There was not one kid who we knew could be plugged in and would be a significant contributor from day 1. That is not recruiting with a plan, that is recruiting on a wing and a prayer. 

Desperate times require desperate measures. CMA had a ton of sports to fill and did what he could to fill them. Filling minutes was accomplished, filling needs not so sure. 

Agreed Ray, but coaches don't get rewarded for effort, they get rewarded for results. Oh wait, except at SJU where you get rewarded with an extension without even dancing once. 

Monte, I didn't hear of the terms of the extension.   Do you think maybe the extended years are not guaranteed right away, and were granted to assure recruits that he is here for the duration?

That's entirely possible Beast, but I believe the extension came with a raise for CMA and the entire staff. Knowing full well the school's history of poor financial decisions when it comes to the basketball program(and other things), I really have to question the wisdom and timing of the raises, more so then the extension. Besides, there's something seriously wrong iif CMA needs an extension in order to attract top 300 level kids, which is more less what he seems to  targeting right now. I could buy in to the extension more if we were in the mix with a bunch of top 100 kids. In any event, it's not like CMA is on the hot seat, and recruits are wondering whether or not he'll be around in 2022 or 2023. The whole thing makes zero sense to me from a business standpoint, and from basketball program standpoint. What's next, a statue if we make the tournament? 

 

[beast of the east]

If the coach doesn’t have the players to work in his system, then he has to change his plans.  At this level you don’t have the luxury of being stubborn.

I  may be wrong, but my sense is that this team was assembled quickly with the best available options, once last year's kids started departing. Unlike others, I have a hard time believing that all of these kids were hand chosen by CMA because they fit his style of play. Let's face facts, this year's newcomers feature 3 low ranked recruits, one mystery man, 2 players who were bench players at mediocre high majors, and 3 kids who were decent contributors at a much lower level. All the newcomers except for Wheeler and Mathis came with big question marks about whether or not they could contribute at this level. There was not one kid who we knew could be plugged in and would be a significant contributor from day 1. That is not recruiting with a plan, that is recruiting on a wing and a prayer. 

Desperate times require desperate measures. CMA had a ton of sports to fill and did what he could to fill them. Filling minutes was accomplished, filling needs not so sure. 

Agreed Ray, but coaches don't get rewarded for effort, they get rewarded for results. Oh wait, except at SJU where you get rewarded with an extension without even dancing once. 

Monte, I didn't hear of the terms of the extension.   Do you think maybe the extended years are not guaranteed right away, and were granted to assure recruits that he is here for the duration?

That's entirely possible Beast, but I believe the extension came with a raise for CMA and the entire staff. Knowing full well the school's history of poor financial decisions when it comes to the basketball program(and other things), I really have to question the wisdom and timing of the raises, more so then the extension. Besides, there's something seriously wrong iif CMA needs an extension in order to attract top 300 level kids, which is more less what he seems to  targeting right now. I could buy in to the extension more if we were in the mix with a bunch of top 100 kids. In any event, it's not like CMA is on the hot seat, and recruits are wondering whether or not he'll be around in 2022 or 2023. The whole thing makes zero sense to me from a business standpoint, and from basketball program standpoint. What's next, a statue if we make the tournament? 

Again, I'm not familiar with the terms of the contract, but let's assume that the raise is for the tacked on years only.   If that's the case, three years from now the going rate for a power conference may be closer to $3 million than two million.   I hear where you are coming from, but consider that in baseball, what Wheeler got paid 2 years ago looks like a tremendous bargain.    

In terms of what ranking you are recruiting, I also hear you regarding top 100, but just because a kid is 3 star doesn't mean he doesn't have a lot of options and the stability of a program doesn't affect his choice.   Those kids don't select us because they have nowhere else to go.

Honestly, if I were a recruit I'd be much more concerned about our shitty attendance.   I didn't do an exhaustive search, but Seton Hall season tickets are sold out, and for Creighton home games there are only limited seats in the upper tier (they seat 17,500).   I guarantee you Villanova sells out nearly every game (when I went to the SJU Nova game on campus they were jam packed and the crowd cheered like we were a top 25 opponent).   I saw those numbers and thought that had to affect Sanders decision (plus the success of the program)

 

[sjc88]

We can talk about Coach Mike and recruiting, scheduling, in game decisions all day and night. However, the one thing, that I am disappointed in is the “style” of play. The whole “40 minutes of hell” has not materialized. Our defense just isn’t that good. Wide open 3’s are still a major problem. Interior defense? We are as soft as the other side of the pillow. Rebounding? We just don’t? That’s the thing. Everyone keeps talking about 4 star athletes and all that. The things I just mentioned, most of it is EFFORT. You don’t need to be a big time star to box out, play defense and close out on shooters. A good part of that is Culture. We are in Year 3 and I haven’t seen it. Ask yourself, Outside of maybe Wusu and Posh who are the “grinders” on this team?
 

 

[monte]

If the coach doesn’t have the players to work in his system, then he has to change his plans.  At this level you don’t have the luxury of being stubborn.

I  may be wrong, but my sense is that this team was assembled quickly with the best available options, once last year's kids started departing. Unlike others, I have a hard time believing that all of these kids were hand chosen by CMA because they fit his style of play. Let's face facts, this year's newcomers feature 3 low ranked recruits, one mystery man, 2 players who were bench players at mediocre high majors, and 3 kids who were decent contributors at a much lower level. All the newcomers except for Wheeler and Mathis came with big question marks about whether or not they could contribute at this level. There was not one kid who we knew could be plugged in and would be a significant contributor from day 1. That is not recruiting with a plan, that is recruiting on a wing and a prayer. 

Desperate times require desperate measures. CMA had a ton of sports to fill and did what he could to fill them. Filling minutes was accomplished, filling needs not so sure. 

Agreed Ray, but coaches don't get rewarded for effort, they get rewarded for results. Oh wait, except at SJU where you get rewarded with an extension without even dancing once. 

Monte, I didn't hear of the terms of the extension.   Do you think maybe the extended years are not guaranteed right away, and were granted to assure recruits that he is here for the duration?

That's entirely possible Beast, but I believe the extension came with a raise for CMA and the entire staff. Knowing full well the school's history of poor financial decisions when it comes to the basketball program(and other things), I really have to question the wisdom and timing of the raises, more so then the extension. Besides, there's something seriously wrong iif CMA needs an extension in order to attract top 300 level kids, which is more less what he seems to  targeting right now. I could buy in to the extension more if we were in the mix with a bunch of top 100 kids. In any event, it's not like CMA is on the hot seat, and recruits are wondering whether or not he'll be around in 2022 or 2023. The whole thing makes zero sense to me from a business standpoint, and from basketball program standpoint. What's next, a statue if we make the tournament? 

Again, I'm not familiar with the terms of the contract, but let's assume that the raise is for the tacked on years only.   If that's the case, three years from now the going rate for a power conference may be closer to $3 million than two million.   I hear where you are coming from, but consider that in baseball, what Wheeler got paid 2 years ago looks like a tremendous bargain.    

In terms of what ranking you are recruiting, I also hear you regarding top 100, but just because a kid is 3 star doesn't mean he doesn't have a lot of options and the stability of a program doesn't affect his choice.   Those kids don't select us because they have nowhere else to go.

Honestly, if I were a recruit I'd be much more concerned about our shitty attendance.   I didn't do an exhaustive search, but Seton Hall season tickets are sold out, and for Creighton home games there are only limited seats in the upper tier (they seat 17,500).   I guarantee you Villanova sells out nearly every game (when I went to the SJU Nova game on campus they were jam packed and the crowd cheered like we were a top 25 opponent).   I saw those numbers and thought that had to affect Sanders decision (plus the success of the program)

We have never drawn well when there's no buzz around the team, and that didn't stop any other SJU coach from recruiting at a
very high level. Norm's recruiting issues were a different story. Bottom line, whether we agree with it or not, we will not draw big crowds unless there's a buzz. And as of now, there is no buzz around this team.

 

[beast of the east]

If the coach doesn’t have the players to work in his system, then he has to change his plans.  At this level you don’t have the luxury of being stubborn.

I  may be wrong, but my sense is that this team was assembled quickly with the best available options, once last year's kids started departing. Unlike others, I have a hard time believing that all of these kids were hand chosen by CMA because they fit his style of play. Let's face facts, this year's newcomers feature 3 low ranked recruits, one mystery man, 2 players who were bench players at mediocre high majors, and 3 kids who were decent contributors at a much lower level. All the newcomers except for Wheeler and Mathis came with big question marks about whether or not they could contribute at this level. There was not one kid who we knew could be plugged in and would be a significant contributor from day 1. That is not recruiting with a plan, that is recruiting on a wing and a prayer. 

Desperate times require desperate measures. CMA had a ton of sports to fill and did what he could to fill them. Filling minutes was accomplished, filling needs not so sure. 

Agreed Ray, but coaches don't get rewarded for effort, they get rewarded for results. Oh wait, except at SJU where you get rewarded with an extension without even dancing once. 

Monte, I didn't hear of the terms of the extension.   Do you think maybe the extended years are not guaranteed right away, and were granted to assure recruits that he is here for the duration?

That's entirely possible Beast, but I believe the extension came with a raise for CMA and the entire staff. Knowing full well the school's history of poor financial decisions when it comes to the basketball program(and other things), I really have to question the wisdom and timing of the raises, more so then the extension. Besides, there's something seriously wrong iif CMA needs an extension in order to attract top 300 level kids, which is more less what he seems to  targeting right now. I could buy in to the extension more if we were in the mix with a bunch of top 100 kids. In any event, it's not like CMA is on the hot seat, and recruits are wondering whether or not he'll be around in 2022 or 2023. The whole thing makes zero sense to me from a business standpoint, and from basketball program standpoint. What's next, a statue if we make the tournament? 

Again, I'm not familiar with the terms of the contract, but let's assume that the raise is for the tacked on years only.   If that's the case, three years from now the going rate for a power conference may be closer to $3 million than two million.   I hear where you are coming from, but consider that in baseball, what Wheeler got paid 2 years ago looks like a tremendous bargain.    

In terms of what ranking you are recruiting, I also hear you regarding top 100, but just because a kid is 3 star doesn't mean he doesn't have a lot of options and the stability of a program doesn't affect his choice.   Those kids don't select us because they have nowhere else to go.

Honestly, if I were a recruit I'd be much more concerned about our shitty attendance.   I didn't do an exhaustive search, but Seton Hall season tickets are sold out, and for Creighton home games there are only limited seats in the upper tier (they seat 17,500).   I guarantee you Villanova sells out nearly every game (when I went to the SJU Nova game on campus they were jam packed and the crowd cheered like we were a top 25 opponent).   I saw those numbers and thought that had to affect Sanders decision (plus the success of the program)

We have never drawn well when there's no buzz around the team, and that didn't stop any other SJU coach from recruiting at a
very high level. Norm's recruiting issues were a different story. Bottom line, whether we agree with it or not, we will not draw big crowds unless there's a buzz. And as of now, there is no buzz around this team.

Which is why we have to build a fan base.   We finished 4th, are in the most densely populated metro area in the US, and our attendance looks like a 9 place Big East team in the sticks.   The problem with our fan base is that they are old enough to remember the "glory days" where honestly we were mostly one and done in the NCAA tourney, and get angry because no matter who we hire, the best we've done is two bids in five seasons.   I would say the team that finished last season would have beaten Mullin's last team down the stretch.   His team had the best attendance since 1992.   

We have to face it.  What we call our fans make every excuse not to attend games.   It's too expensive, not worth it, too hard to get to, too hot at CA, games start too early, games start too late, we haven't won enough, we don't spend enough, we aren't Repoleed.  That probably are the chief complaints.  

Fact of the matter, it's a college sport.  It's a great opportunity to connect with alumni and fans at home games. We have an extremely approachable staff and former players.   I constantly invite family and friends to come with me, and that's fun too.  Try getting the GM of the Knicks to reply to an email, or be able to attend events where the coaching staff is easy to chat with.

I get it though.   The disappointment of not winning 90% of games and not seeing our team in the top 25 is just too much for our base.   I would guess that many fans on here spend hours every single day here but have been to only a handful of games over the past 4 years, if that.    But the reality is it IS a chicken and egg thing, but it doesn't have to be. 

 

[monte]

If the coach doesn’t have the players to work in his system, then he has to change his plans.  At this level you don’t have the luxury of being stubborn.

I  may be wrong, but my sense is that this team was assembled quickly with the best available options, once last year's kids started departing. Unlike others, I have a hard time believing that all of these kids were hand chosen by CMA because they fit his style of play. Let's face facts, this year's newcomers feature 3 low ranked recruits, one mystery man, 2 players who were bench players at mediocre high majors, and 3 kids who were decent contributors at a much lower level. All the newcomers except for Wheeler and Mathis came with big question marks about whether or not they could contribute at this level. There was not one kid who we knew could be plugged in and would be a significant contributor from day 1. That is not recruiting with a plan, that is recruiting on a wing and a prayer. 

Desperate times require desperate measures. CMA had a ton of sports to fill and did what he could to fill them. Filling minutes was accomplished, filling needs not so sure. 

Agreed Ray, but coaches don't get rewarded for effort, they get rewarded for results. Oh wait, except at SJU where you get rewarded with an extension without even dancing once. 

Monte, I didn't hear of the terms of the extension.   Do you think maybe the extended years are not guaranteed right away, and were granted to assure recruits that he is here for the duration?

That's entirely possible Beast, but I believe the extension came with a raise for CMA and the entire staff. Knowing full well the school's history of poor financial decisions when it comes to the basketball program(and other things), I really have to question the wisdom and timing of the raises, more so then the extension. Besides, there's something seriously wrong iif CMA needs an extension in order to attract top 300 level kids, which is more less what he seems to  targeting right now. I could buy in to the extension more if we were in the mix with a bunch of top 100 kids. In any event, it's not like CMA is on the hot seat, and recruits are wondering whether or not he'll be around in 2022 or 2023. The whole thing makes zero sense to me from a business standpoint, and from basketball program standpoint. What's next, a statue if we make the tournament? 

Again, I'm not familiar with the terms of the contract, but let's assume that the raise is for the tacked on years only.   If that's the case, three years from now the going rate for a power conference may be closer to $3 million than two million.   I hear where you are coming from, but consider that in baseball, what Wheeler got paid 2 years ago looks like a tremendous bargain.    

In terms of what ranking you are recruiting, I also hear you regarding top 100, but just because a kid is 3 star doesn't mean he doesn't have a lot of options and the stability of a program doesn't affect his choice.   Those kids don't select us because they have nowhere else to go.

Honestly, if I were a recruit I'd be much more concerned about our shitty attendance.   I didn't do an exhaustive search, but Seton Hall season tickets are sold out, and for Creighton home games there are only limited seats in the upper tier (they seat 17,500).   I guarantee you Villanova sells out nearly every game (when I went to the SJU Nova game on campus they were jam packed and the crowd cheered like we were a top 25 opponent).   I saw those numbers and thought that had to affect Sanders decision (plus the success of the program)

We have never drawn well when there's no buzz around the team, and that didn't stop any other SJU coach from recruiting at a
very high level. Norm's recruiting issues were a different story. Bottom line, whether we agree with it or not, we will not draw big crowds unless there's a buzz. And as of now, there is no buzz around this team.

Which is why we have to build a fan base.   We finished 4th, are in the most densely populated metro area in the US, and our attendance looks like a 9 place Big East team in the sticks.   The problem with our fan base is that they are old enough to remember the "glory days" where honestly we were mostly one and done in the NCAA tourney, and get angry because no matter who we hire, the best we've done is two bids in five seasons.   I would say the team that finished last season would have beaten Mullin's last team down the stretch.   His team had the best attendance since 1992.   

We have to face it.  What we call our fans make every excuse not to attend games.   It's too expensive, not worth it, too hard to get to, too hot at CA, games start too early, games start too late, we haven't won enough, we don't spend enough, we aren't Repoleed.  That probably are the chief complaints.  

Fact of the matter, it's a college sport.  It's a great opportunity to connect with alumni and fans at home games. We have an extremely approachable staff and former players.   I constantly invite family and friends to come with me, and that's fun too.  Try getting the GM of the Knicks to reply to an email, or be able to attend events where the coaching staff is easy to chat with.

I get it though.   The disappointment of not winning 90% of games and not seeing our team in the top 25 is just too much for our base.   I would guess that many fans on here spend hours every single day here but have been to only a handful of games over the past 4 years, if that.    But the reality is it IS a chicken and egg thing, but it doesn't have to be. 

We cracked the top 25 in 2 years under Lavin and in Mullin's last year. Not surprisingly,  those were the recent seasons  were we had the most excitement around the program By contrast, in the last 11 years CMA teams have cracked the top 25 in just two seasons. So I don't see him. consistently getting back to the upper echelon of college ball on a consistent basis. I wish the school luck trying to generate fan interest without providing  a top flight product, but I don't see it happening. 

 

[monte]

One more thing Beast, as you know I have been an SJU fan going on 50 years now. I live and die with this team. And "I" have zero interest in schlepping to an uncomfortable arena, with bleacher seats, which doesn't sell alcohol, in order to watch a mediocre SJU team struggle against cupcakes. Now, if I'm not willing to do that as a long time die hard fan, you really think the school is going to have success convincing other less rabid fans to come out and watch this team? Again, I don't see that happening 

 

[beast of the east]

One more thing Beast, as you know I have been an SJU fan going on 50 years now. I live and die with this team. And "I" have zero interest in schlepping to an uncomfortable arena, with bleacher seats, which doesn't sell alcohol, in order to watch a mediocre SJU team struggle against cupcakes. Now, if I'm not willing to do that as a long time die hard fan, you really think the school is going to have success convincing other less rabid fans to come out and watch this team? Again, I don't see that happening 

It's definitely a different definition of diehard fan, but I understand how you feel.   Alcohol may help sales, but you give the perfect argument why we should not build a new on campus arena.   Unless we are ranked we have a lot of self described die hard fans that don't want to watch mediocre talent, even if we are competing in a power league.   Look, that's why Fordham draws horribly at our home games, but they are in the MAAC.      

Given all of that, even if we had the money to spend on a $5 million coach, who would come here to play in front of a half filled or less home court, play big games at MSG where visitors outnumber home fans, and a weak donor base?   I would guess not even a guy who gets cocktail waitresses pregnant and has an assistant take credit, who can't win a championship without sneaker companies paying his starters.   After all if the guy gets recognized as BE coach of the year, our fans largely turn on him if we look shaky coming out of the gates the next year.

We are doomed. 

 

[IDRAFT]

If the coach doesn’t have the players to work in his system, then he has to change his plans.  At this level you don’t have the luxury of being stubborn.

I  may be wrong, but my sense is that this team was assembled quickly with the best available options, once last year's kids started departing. Unlike others, I have a hard time believing that all of these kids were hand chosen by CMA because they fit his style of play. Let's face facts, this year's newcomers feature 3 low ranked recruits, one mystery man, 2 players who were bench players at mediocre high majors, and 3 kids who were decent contributors at a much lower level. All the newcomers except for Wheeler and Mathis came with big question marks about whether or not they could contribute at this level. There was not one kid who we knew could be plugged in and would be a significant contributor from day 1. That is not recruiting with a plan, that is recruiting on a wing and a prayer. 

Desperate times require desperate measures. CMA had a ton of sports to fill and did what he could to fill them. Filling minutes was accomplished, filling needs not so sure. 

Agreed Ray, but coaches don't get rewarded for effort, they get rewarded for results. Oh wait, except at SJU where you get rewarded with an extension without even dancing once. 

Monte, I didn't hear of the terms of the extension.   Do you think maybe the extended years are not guaranteed right away, and were granted to assure recruits that he is here for the duration?

That's entirely possible Beast, but I believe the extension came with a raise for CMA and the entire staff. Knowing full well the school's history of poor financial decisions when it comes to the basketball program(and other things), I really have to question the wisdom and timing of the raises, more so then the extension. Besides, there's something seriously wrong iif CMA needs an extension in order to attract top 300 level kids, which is more less what he seems to  targeting right now. I could buy in to the extension more if we were in the mix with a bunch of top 100 kids. In any event, it's not like CMA is on the hot seat, and recruits are wondering whether or not he'll be around in 2022 or 2023. The whole thing makes zero sense to me from a business standpoint, and from basketball program standpoint. What's next, a statue if we make the tournament? 

Again, I'm not familiar with the terms of the contract, but let's assume that the raise is for the tacked on years only.   If that's the case, three years from now the going rate for a power conference may be closer to $3 million than two million.   I hear where you are coming from, but consider that in baseball, what Wheeler got paid 2 years ago looks like a tremendous bargain.    

In terms of what ranking you are recruiting, I also hear you regarding top 100, but just because a kid is 3 star doesn't mean he doesn't have a lot of options and the stability of a program doesn't affect his choice.   Those kids don't select us because they have nowhere else to go.

Honestly, if I were a recruit I'd be much more concerned about our shitty attendance.   I didn't do an exhaustive search, but Seton Hall season tickets are sold out, and for Creighton home games there are only limited seats in the upper tier (they seat 17,500).   I guarantee you Villanova sells out nearly every game (when I went to the SJU Nova game on campus they were jam packed and the crowd cheered like we were a top 25 opponent).   I saw those numbers and thought that had to affect Sanders decision (plus the success of the program)

We have never drawn well when there's no buzz around the team, and that didn't stop any other SJU coach from recruiting at a
very high level. Norm's recruiting issues were a different story. Bottom line, whether we agree with it or not, we will not draw big crowds unless there's a buzz. And as of now, there is no buzz around this team.

Which is why we have to build a fan base.   We finished 4th, are in the most densely populated metro area in the US, and our attendance looks like a 9 place Big East team in the sticks.   The problem with our fan base is that they are old enough to remember the "glory days" where honestly we were mostly one and done in the NCAA tourney, and get angry because no matter who we hire, the best we've done is two bids in five seasons.   I would say the team that finished last season would have beaten Mullin's last team down the stretch.   His team had the best attendance since 1992.   

We have to face it.  What we call our fans make every excuse not to attend games.   It's too expensive, not worth it, too hard to get to, too hot at CA, games start too early, games start too late, we haven't won enough, we don't spend enough, we aren't Repoleed.  That probably are the chief complaints.  

Fact of the matter, it's a college sport.  It's a great opportunity to connect with alumni and fans at home games. We have an extremely approachable staff and former players.   I constantly invite family and friends to come with me, and that's fun too.  Try getting the GM of the Knicks to reply to an email, or be able to attend events where the coaching staff is easy to chat with.

I get it though.   The disappointment of not winning 90% of games and not seeing our team in the top 25 is just too much for our base.   I would guess that many fans on here spend hours every single day here but have been to only a handful of games over the past 4 years, if that.    But the reality is it IS a chicken and egg thing, but it doesn't have to be. 

Beast I think you are more dialed in with the Admin then me, as I am a non-Alum. SJU needs to figure out how to convince younger people (say 40 and under) of the absolute value proposition of attending, especially on campus. Many of them have younger kids who are involved in CYO and who would love to go to a game and will not turn their nose up (the kids) at seeing St. Francis versus St. Johns. Those fans also could become students one day.

Convincing older fans just isn't going to happen, and all you have to do is read the posts here, most coming from folks over 50. Too hot, no seatbacks, etc. I'm 63 now and I'm not surprised how high on the list these things are on a senior persons list. But twenty years ago I can't imagine even thinking about such things. 

I go to the games, all of them, so I'm an exception. But SJU needs to market better, that's a fact. This board is made up of mostly older fans and they aren't going to come to games. You pointed out all the reasons they cite. The number one reason is uncomfortable to discuss. They are old and don't have the energy they used to have. They are on fixed incomes and the costs seem higher to them. Soon they are going to die. And I'm one of them!

SJU needs to forget them and go hard after replacements. Unless the team gets very good very fast that takes a marketing investment. Word of mouth is not going to work.