Amar Has Returned

[monte]

Forget who stays or goes.. The most important returning factor is this coaching staff who need just as much improvement as any player on this team.

I know you know your stuff but there is no coaching staff anywhere in any sport anytime that is more important than having players. Wooden, Knight, Coach K, Jay Wright name whoever you want they could not and do/did not win with less than very talented players. They also did not win until they gained at least some reasonable amount of time to build a program and get those level players.

I never said that a coach was more important than a player nor do i think that is the case.. However those people you refer to in your post are and were great coaches and ours is a great player in a suit as of now. My point was that if there is any one place for emphasis on improvement then it should be with the coaching staff and not with the way a returning bench player ( Amar) spends his summer improving.

Last season the coaching staff, like the players, went through an acclamation process with one another. There was, and will continue to be, a learning curve for them. There were times where there seemed to be a lack of cohesiveness. The post season drama with Slice lends further credence to that notion, and that the staff needs to work through some things and come back next year on the same page and with defined rolls. I like what they've done so far on he recruiting front, but the jury is still out on staff management and in game coaching. Your point that the they need to work on improving over the summer is a valid one.

 

[beast of the east]

Not to belabor the point, but even on poor teams that don't have a chance of winning, you can see a change over the course of a season in better defense, better ball movement on offense, emergence of who the go to guys are, etc. You can not win a single game more than a talent-less team that doesn't exhibit any of that, but you can see they are better coached.

Of course, analyzing that is subjective, and many here feel that because the roster was thin, and expectations low, that the coaching staff did the best that could be done with that roster. I disagree, even if I think a great coach couldn't have squeezed out much more.

The problem with this logic is that you can progress every position, improve ball movement etc when you have a serviceable point guard. Pretty easy read to coach against that squad. Pressure the ball and you win. Final Four - Syracuse sat in a zone and lost.

We didn't have one player with any history or skill at being the primary ball handler and no one really with any mid-high Div I level ball handling skills. We had a hodgpodge of 2s and 3s that were either slow of foot, turnover prone or undersized or both or all of the above by committee trying to get the ball up the court each attempt being an adventure. You really cannot develop much when you are turning the ball over at a ridiculous rate and without some definitive ball handlers you are going to turn the ball over. Add to the mix that freshman were doing the majority of the ball handling and that in itself - even for experienced point guards and your turnovers are probably +25% on any team.

We'll have 3 or 4 guys this season with good to high level ball skills. Will make a huge difference for everything.

Paul, like I said, what each of us see on the court is subjective. Talent no doubt will make a difference, but I still think last season's team could have been better coached.

Don't know if you were in NY for the Jarvis days, but he was constantly talking to guys on the bench and teaching. Constantly subbing based on game situations. Forget about the fact that he was a dog (minor point on which we all agree), he could coach. Even if you lack talent, you try to make in game adjustments to get favorable matchups or negate what the other team is trying to do. Clearly never happened last season.

Anyways, time to close the book on last season and move forward. But still, I can't give Mullin sideline accolades, as some here do.

 

[Red.Fans]

Notwistanding the dress code infringements and sitting in places that are taboo, I find it more than amazing that you guys who are critical of the coaching staff, assume that they are so oblivious as to be unaware of these things.

I'm looking at it from a different perspective and watching Steve Kerr (another guy that learned a few things from Mullin) sit on the scorers table the other night on his way to likely coaching a repeat NBA championship team, made me smile. there are different styles of coaching and one of the keys at being good at anything is self awareness. You know what you are good at and you don't pretend to be good at what you aren't.

Mullin was very successful as a non-prototypical player. He didn't try to be Julius Irving which is what everyone else was doing in the early-mid 80s. He was aware of who he was and did more with less sticking with that. Instead of assuming that he is a coaching moron surrounded by yes men who are too afraid to bring these things up to him, I'm making that major leap of faith that he is a uniquely self-aware person that has a plan and that he knows what he is doing and isn't afraid to look un-prototypical even in the painful early stage.

 

[GardenCity62]

I can recall being in MSG and watching Al McGuire stay sitting during some timeouts and letting either Majerus or Raymond instruct the players. There is no one way to skin a cat.
I have always felt that SJU missed the boat when Louie left for the pros and SJU signed Frank Mulzoff and didn't make the effort to get Al. He was at Marquette and was was just about to start his great years there. He was always able to attract NY kids to Wisconsin and while Louie did a fine job when he returned IMO Al and SJU would have been a fabulous match.
Does anyone know if SJU made any effort to sign Al?

 

[paultzman]

To be fair, Mullin's coaching & leadership proficiency should be judged after at least four seasons. To me, if team wins 15 games this year, flirts with or makes NCAA T in year three & makes noise in Dance year four, you can say he has succeeded. Legend or not, it eventually comes down to winning games, stating the obvious. They are recruiting well it appears, so it is logical to assume CM will accomplish what he is being well paid to do, i.e., getting the program on a path of sustainable success.

 

[Class of 72]

:kiss:

To be fair, Mullin's coaching & leadership proficiency should be judged after at least four seasons. To me, if team wins 15 games this year, flirts with or makes NCAA T in year three & makes noise in Dance year four, you can say he has succeeded. Legend or not, it eventually comes down to winning games, stating the obvious. They are recruiting well it appears, so it is logical to assume CM will accomplish what he is being well paid to do, i.e., getting the program on a path of sustainable success.

While I agree, any coach at a major program that goes 10–17 and 11–17 over two years will likely be a failure long term.

Edit: I take that back. That was coach K.

 

[Moose]

:kiss:

To be fair, Mullin's coaching & leadership proficiency should be judged after at least four seasons. To me, if team wins 15 games this year, flirts with or makes NCAA T in year three & makes noise in Dance year four, you can say he has succeeded. Legend or not, it eventually comes down to winning games, stating the obvious. They are recruiting well it appears, so it is logical to assume CM will accomplish what he is being well paid to do, i.e., getting the program on a path of sustainable success.

While I agree, any coach at a major program that goes 10–17 and 11–17 over two years will likely be a failure long term.

Edit: I take that back. That was coach K.

If only Clyde Drexler won't 21 instead of 19 games in his two years how things would have been different

 

[Sherman Sheridan & Grant]

:kiss:

To be fair, Mullin's coaching & leadership proficiency should be judged after at least four seasons. To me, if team wins 15 games this year, flirts with or makes NCAA T in year three & makes noise in Dance year four, you can say he has succeeded. Legend or not, it eventually comes down to winning games, stating the obvious. They are recruiting well it appears, so it is logical to assume CM will accomplish what he is being well paid to do, i.e., getting the program on a path of sustainable success.

While I agree, any coach at a major program that goes 10–17 and 11–17 over two years will likely be a failure long term.

Edit: I take that back. That was coach K.

The last few pages of posts - by those more knowledgeable of the game and/or with inside SJU access...enjoyable, thanks!
And yes 72 as to perspective...
And as we know, K was on the fringe of being fired
And yes Mr. P this staff needs a few more years to judge it's resume, premature
And of course
As has oft been posted,
Ws and improved play will cure all (at least most) of our critiques and concerns.
Ws.
The board might even become boring (yeah right :dry: )
Next three years as you lay them out, 15, flirt with tourney, then make some noise...= a nice doable progression
Sounds good to me
It's "a gonna" be fun

 

[beast of the east]

Notwistanding the dress code infringements and sitting in places that are taboo, I find it more than amazing that you guys who are critical of the coaching staff, assume that they are so oblivious as to be unaware of these things.

I'm looking at it from a different perspective and watching Steve Kerr (another guy that learned a few things from Mullin) sit on the scorers table the other night on his way to likely coaching a repeat NBA championship team, made me smile. there are different styles of coaching and one of the keys at being good at anything is self awareness. You know what you are good at and you don't pretend to be good at what you aren't.

Mullin was very successful as a non-prototypical player. He didn't try to be Julius Irving which is what everyone else was doing in the early-mid 80s. He was aware of who he was and did more with less sticking with that. Instead of assuming that he is a coaching moron surrounded by yes men who are too afraid to bring these things up to him, I'm making that major leap of faith that he is a uniquely self-aware person that has a plan and that he knows what he is doing and isn't afraid to look un-prototypical even in the painful early stage.

I dont care about dress code for coaches and i dont particularly care if he parks himself on a table for a minute or two. I do care if he sits there for last 5 minutes of a game and says not a word to his players or assistants.

Respectfully dont think Mullin should be given 4 years to begin to make judgments as to his coaching accumen. By year 4, most fans were long done w Roberts and by year 2 Lavins hiatus for cancer treatments were critiqued. Without a doubt he will have more talent going forward, but if next years squad does not approach .500 overall and 7 wins in the Big East, he will be rightfully questioned.

Reject all arguments that his skill as a player automatically transfers to coaching ability. Yes he knew how to play the game as well as anyone i ever saw, but i dont think that would get him anywhere coaching against bobby knight.

Bottom line, we will see, and all of us wish him the best.

 

[otis]

Count me among the seeming small number of posters on Redmen.com that believes that Mullin & company did solid job last season with assembling the then best available left overs and mixing them with the 3 left overs from Lavin.

 

[JohnnyFan]

Count me among the seeming small number of posters on Redmen.com that believes that Mullin & company did solid job last season with assembling the then best available left overs and mixing them with the 3 left overs from Lavin.

Absolutely. Not only did they do an impressive job assembling the roster, they also had the team consistently playing hard and they created a positive, team-oriented environment. This won't be enough next year, but it was all I could ask for in 2015-2016.

 

[monte]

Count me among the seeming small number of posters on Redmen.com that believes that Mullin & company did solid job last season with assembling the then best available left overs and mixing them with the 3 left overs from Lavin.

Agree Otis, although I think it's more than just a small number of posters who believe that. In just a little over a year the staff has put together a very balanced and pretty deep and talented roster, albeit with some shortcomings. While Lavin had a very high ranked class his second year, the defections of Lindsay and to a lesser degree Stith, made it difficult for him to field a team at points during that second year. Something that will not be a problem during Chris's second year. I still say that one of his more bone-headed moves was to cut Ron Roberts loose. They kid would have been a decent 4 year player for us. Lavin's 2nd team went 13-19. I expect Chris's second team to do better than that(.500?). The only issue I have on the recruiting front so far is that I would have thought that Slice would have made more headway by now in reeling in some big fish. After all, that is what he was brought here to do. Hopefully he will in the near future.

 

[we are sju]

Count me among the seeming small number of posters on Redmen.com that believes that Mullin & company did solid job last season with assembling the then best available left overs and mixing them with the 3 left overs from Lavin.

See I don't think you could fairly judge him one way or the the other based on last year. At least not based on wins and losses. Most of us expected our record last year and most sensible posters hope for a modest jump this year.

The troublesome aspect of last year was the impression Mullin gave off. Detached would be generous. Now if he starts winning games no one will care where he sits or what he wears. But since he couldn't or shouldn't be judged by wins people keyed on the other aspects of the job.

And again just to be clear I don't care personally where he sits or what he wears. Honestly I thought it was odd letting ST Jean do the coaching but only because as a Mullin fan it was giving any anti Mullin people fodder to go after him until we start winning.

The bottom line for me is if we don't win another game, you will never ever see me post that Mullin should be fired. That does not mean I will agree with everything he does.

 

[redmannorth]

Count me among the seeming small number of posters on Redmen.com that believes that Mullin & company did solid job last season with assembling the then best available left overs and mixing them with the 3 left overs from Lavin.

The only issue I have on the recruiting front so far is that I would have thought that Slice would have made more headway by now in reeling in some big fish. After all, that is what he was brought here to do. Hopefully he will in the near future.

Truthfully going forward I have two fears
1. Will our staff improve, and not criticizing, but just hoping they do. Must be a much greater commitment to defense.
2. Slice's role going forward. If we are really going to play the junior college, European and transfer game as we have done to date, and I am not saying we should not continue that route going forward, it really minimizes or does not play to his strengths, but rather those of Matt.

 

[Section9]

All this stuff about guys being fixated about who "coaches" or draws up plays during time outs as well as what Mullin wears or sits or if he seems disengaged is pretty funny stuff,

I suggest you reread the Newsday interview from a few weeks ago where he addressed the time out/coaching thing. If you still have an issue then it's on you.

But, then again, this is a message board, and particularly during off season we have to discuss something.

 

[we are sju]

Count me among the seeming small number of posters on Redmen.com that believes that Mullin & company did solid job last season with assembling the then best available left overs and mixing them with the 3 left overs from Lavin.

The only issue I have on the recruiting front so far is that I would have thought that Slice would have made more headway by now in reeling in some big fish. After all, that is what he was brought here to do. Hopefully he will in the near future.

Truthfully going forward I have two fears
1. Will our staff improve, and not criticizing, but just hoping they do. Must be a much greater commitment to defense.
2. Slice's role going forward. If we are really going to play the junior college, European and transfer game as we have done to date, and I am not saying we should not continue that route going forward, it really minimizes or does not play to his strengths, but rather those of Matt.

I am sure they would like to get stud HS players. I just don't think that is something that will happen often. That is really not a knock on Slice but more on the current situation. ST John's is always going to be at a disadvantage in recruiting and that is especially true during down periods on the court. If things get better you hope we would get some of the local guys to stay. Unfortunately there are not a lot of those guysaround anymore.

If Slice does eventually leave I think it would be because of the frustration over the inability to recruit at ST John's rather than any jealousy about Matt or falling out with Mullin.

 

[mjmaherjr]

All this stuff about guys being fixated about who "coaches" or draws up plays during time outs as well as what Mullin wears or sits or if he seems disengaged is pretty funny stuff,

I suggest you reread the Newsday interview from a few weeks ago where he addressed the time out/coaching thing. If you still have an issue then it's on you.

But, then again, this is a message board, and particularly during off season we have to discuss something.

Granted I haven't paid attention too much lately but did we hire Dick Harter or Rick Carslisle on the bench ?

 

[beast of the east]

All this stuff about guys being fixated about who "coaches" or draws up plays during time outs as well as what Mullin wears or sits or if he seems disengaged is pretty funny stuff,

I suggest you reread the Newsday interview from a few weeks ago where he addressed the time out/coaching thing. If you still have an issue then it's on you.

But, then again, this is a message board, and particularly during off season we have to discuss something.

You know what I find funny is that a considerable number of people here think its about delegation or who draws up the plays. If you paid attention, Mullin doesn't even confer with coaches during the game. So if St. Jean decides to go man in the huddle, Mullin appears unaware. If he wants Mussini to take more shots off screens, Mullin is unaware, if he is reinforcing a simple fundamental, like boxing out, flashing to a spot to catch and shoot, or looking to pass upcourt off a rebound instead of putting the ball on the floor, Mullin is unaware. He simply is often not in the same zipcode when the team huddles for a time out. Of course, other times he saunters over to the huddle.

Lots of guys carry the clip board. Mahoney did it for Lou, and countless other assistants do. But I've never seen any head coach quite so removed from in game coaching. I mean, if you aren't coaching during the game, what the heck are you doing on the sidelines?

 

[we are sju]

All this stuff about guys being fixated about who "coaches" or draws up plays during time outs as well as what Mullin wears or sits or if he seems disengaged is pretty funny stuff,

I suggest you reread the Newsday interview from a few weeks ago where he addressed the time out/coaching thing. If you still have an issue then it's on you.

But, then again, this is a message board, and particularly during off season we have to discuss something.

You know what I find funny is that a considerable number of people here think its about delegation or who draws up the plays. If you paid attention, Mullin doesn't even confer with coaches during the game. So if St. Jean decides to go man in the huddle, Mullin appears unaware. If he wants Mussini to take more shots off screens, Mullin is unaware, if he is reinforcing a simple fundamental, like boxing out, flashing to a spot to catch and shoot, or looking to pass upcourt off a rebound instead of putting the ball on the floor, Mullin is unaware. He simply is often not in the same zipcode when the team huddles for a time out. Of course, other times he saunters over to the huddle.

Lots of guys carry the clip board. Mahoney did it for Lou, and countless other assistants do. But I've never seen any head coach quite so removed from in game coaching. I mean, if you aren't coaching during the game, what the heck are you doing on the sidelines?

I am a Mullin guy and that is how it appeared to me as well. Again win and it is a non issue, but not sure we are going to win for a while so this will linger if he has the same bench demeanor going forward.

 

[paultzman]

Count me among the seeming small number of posters on Redmen.com that believes that Mullin & company did solid job last season with assembling the then best available left overs and mixing them with the 3 left overs from Lavin.

The only issue I have on the recruiting front so far is that I would have thought that Slice would have made more headway by now in reeling in some big fish. After all, that is what he was brought here to do. Hopefully he will in the near future.

Truthfully going forward I have two fears
1. Will our staff improve, and not criticizing, but just hoping they do. Must be a much greater commitment to defense.
2. Slice's role going forward. If we are really going to play the junior college, European and transfer game as we have done to date, and I am not saying we should not continue that route going forward, it really minimizes or does not play to his strengths, but rather those of Matt.

I am sure they would like to get stud HS players. I just don't think that is something that will happen often. That is really not a knock on Slice but more on the current situation. ST John's is always going to be at a disadvantage in recruiting and that is especially true during down periods on the court. If things get better you hope we would get some of the local guys to stay. Unfortunately there are not a lot of those guysaround anymore.

If Slice does eventually leave I think it would be because of the frustration over the inability to recruit at ST John's rather than any jealousy about Matt or falling out with Mullin.

Apparently Slice has a guaranteed contract with at least four years remaining. If his boss wants him out, can SJU afford a buyout? Not an easy answer in my opinion. Secondly, if Slice wants to leave how many opportunities are there out there right now at his salary?

Solution - Mullin finds a way to diffuse situation & gets everybody on same page. I find it hard to believe this issue can't be resolved to everyone's relative satisfaction. Hopefully it already has been put to rest. With Slice's contacts & experience in the college game, it would be a shame to lose him.