Adios Tariq

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[quote="Paul Massell" post=278878]Tariq's dad complained on Twitter during the season, that Ponds took too many shots. That pretty much sums it up.[/quote]

He says a lot of things some of which contradict things he previously said but everything points to how he disagrees with Mullin's use of his son in the offense. He wasn't complaining about Shamorie because even a knucklehead like Mr. Owens knows who the star of the team is. He is also smart enough to see that Keita will steal some minutes, that Mullin is/was pursuing Jordan Brown and that Matt is looking for an impact big, In short, he has no confidence his son will have as big a role next season and he is right.
 
His fathers insistance that Tariq gets more shots on the perimeter , instead of working on his inside game isn’t going to enhance his value to SJU or any other team. That said. I would have liked to see him stay and work on his rebounding and put backs and accept his role on the team. Hopefully we will get a good grad transfer banger. Maryland has a 5 star PF coming in , so I’m not sure what his role at Maryland is going to be.
 
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[quote="firestorm" post=278879]One of the unfortunate things about the current state of college hoops is that many of these kids will never know the joy (or, in our case, pain) of a connection to your alma mater.

I'm 30+ years removed from St. John's, but I still wear the colors and waste too much time on sites like this. I get overly excited when I see us play (and play well) and get far too miserable when we stink.

That's not a hot at Tariq - just a comment that players who hop schools are sacrificing something that is pretty special.[/quote]
Agree, it is pretty special. One of the great joys of my life is agonizing over St. John's basketball. ;) :)
 
[quote="firestorm" post=278879]One of the unfortunate things about the current state of college hoops is that many of these kids will never know the joy (or, in our case, pain) of a connection to your alma mater.

I'm 30+ years removed from St. John's, but I still wear the colors and waste too much time on sites like this. I get overly excited when I see us play (and play well) and get far too miserable when we stink.

That's not a hot at Tariq - just a comment that players who hop schools are sacrificing something that is pretty special.[/quote]

Co-sign this 100 percent.
 
[quote="richard A Steinfeld" post=278894]His fathers insistance that Tariq gets more shots on the perimeter , instead of working on his inside game isn’t going to enhance his value to SJU or any other team. That said. I would have liked to see him stay and work on his rebounding and put backs and accept his role on the team. Hopefully we will get a good grad transfer banger. Maryland has a 5 star PF coming in , so I’m not sure what his role at Maryland is going to be.[/quote]

The father has no confidence in this coaching staff. Period!
Among his many indirect swipes he most recently cited the post season appearances of the schools he is considering for young Owens. The fact that we have not been close to ANY post season appearances in the three years of the Mullin experiment has obviously influenced their decision and says a lot about the confidence they have for next season being any different when it comes to an NCAA bid.
Ironically Tariq Owens would have been a big part of the hoped for success next season so his attitude and loss of confidence in Mullin is a slap in the face to his teammates who would have been better with him than without him. The Lovett’s played the same game and the Ellisons played it and it must be very frustrating recruiting players, training them and then jumping ship in rough waters. This new generation of players is very much cut from the cloth of the "me-first" mentality with instant gratification more important than long term dedication and hard work.
 
[quote="bamafan" post=278895][quote="firestorm" post=278879]One of the unfortunate things about the current state of college hoops is that many of these kids will never know the joy (or, in our case, pain) of a connection to your alma mater.

I'm 30+ years removed from St. John's, but I still wear the colors and waste too much time on sites like this. I get overly excited when I see us play (and play well) and get far too miserable when we stink.

That's not a hot at Tariq - just a comment that players who hop schools are sacrificing something that is pretty special.[/quote]
Agree, it is pretty special. One of the great joys of my life is agonizing over St. John's basketball. ;) :)[/quote]


Yes Firestorm, Bama
Joe Benningo WFAN "Oh the pain"!
How sweet it will be one day when we are a good team! Ws are more pleasurable than Ls lol
and we've had plenty of Ls the past two decades.
 
This is just my gut feeling.

I do not believe that the father of Tariq feels that the staff cannot develop talent.
Our offence runs through the guards yes but we ran Tariq in a lot of high pick and role plays.

Does anyone else think that Tariq saw his playing time going down with Keita take a large part of his role?

Maybe he thought Keita, Clark, Simon, Ponds and Dixon were going to be starters and his role would be off the bench again
 
[quote="Red2395" post=278982]This is just my gut feeling.

I do not believe that the father of Tariq feels that the staff cannot develop talent.
Our offence runs through the guards yes but we ran Tariq in a lot of high pick and role plays.

Does anyone else think that Tariq saw his playing time going down with Keita take a large part of his role?

Maybe he thought Keita, Clark, Simon, Ponds and Dixon were going to be starters and his role would be off the bench again[/quote]

I think Owens would have been locked in as a starter at PF. I think he left because dad wants him to score more, and because Maryland has been tampering since February.

There was a kid in the MAC, Brandon Hunter, whose coach once told him that the leading scorer in the NCAA doesn't always make the NBA, but the leading rebounder does. Not sure if it's still true, since Hunter graduated 15 years ago, but I believe Owens would have been better served by staying here and going after every rebound like a mad dog. And if that's what got him to the pros, then he can show them whether he can score or not.

Hunter by the way did lead the NCAA in rebounds after his coach told him that, and he did play in the NBA for a few seasons before going overseas.
 
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[quote="L J S A" post=278992][quote="Red2395" post=278982]This is just my gut feeling.

I do not believe that the father of Tariq feels that the staff cannot develop talent.
Our offence runs through the guards yes but we ran Tariq in a lot of high pick and role plays.

Does anyone else think that Tariq saw his playing time going down with Keita take a large part of his role?

Maybe he thought Keita, Clark, Simon, Ponds and Dixon were going to be starters and his role would be off the bench again[/quote]

I think Owens would have been locked in as a starter at PF. I think he left because dad wants him to score more, and because Maryland has been tampering since February.

There was a kid in the MAC, Brandon Hunter, whose coach once told him that the leading scorer in the NCAA doesn't always make the NBA, but the leading rebounder does. Not sure if it's still true, since Hunter graduated 15 years ago, but I believe Owens would have been better served by staying here and going after every rebound like a mad dog. And if that's what got him to the pros, then he can show them whether he can score or not.

Hunter by the way did lead the NCAA in rebounds after his coach told him that, and he did play in the NBA for a few seasons before going overseas.[/quote]

I told his dad exactly the same thing. It was after his dad started bitching on Twitter right after Tariq scored 13 points on 6/8 form the field or something like that. The next game Tariq laid a goose egg on offense, with something like an 0 for 8 from the field.
 
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[quote="L J S A" post=278992][quote="Red2395" post=278982]This is just my gut feeling.

I do not believe that the father of Tariq feels that the staff cannot develop talent.
Our offence runs through the guards yes but we ran Tariq in a lot of high pick and role plays.

Does anyone else think that Tariq saw his playing time going down with Keita take a large part of his role?

Maybe he thought Keita, Clark, Simon, Ponds and Dixon were going to be starters and his role would be off the bench again[/quote]

I think Owens would have been locked in as a starter at PF. I think he left because dad wants him to score more, and because Maryland has been tampering since February.

There was a kid in the MAC, Brandon Hunter, whose coach once told him that the leading scorer in the NCAA doesn't always make the NBA, but the leading rebounder does. Not sure if it's still true, since Hunter graduated 15 years ago, but I believe Owens would have been better served by staying here and going after every rebound like a mad dog. And if that's what got him to the pros, then he can show them whether he can score or not.

Hunter by the way did lead the NCAA in rebounds after his coach told him that, and he did play in the NBA for a few seasons before going overseas.[/quote]

I told his dad exactly the same thing. It was after his dad started bitching on Twitter right after Tariq scored 13 points on 6/8 form the field or something like that. The next game Tariq laid a goose egg on offense, with something like an 0 for 8 from the field.

One thing no one is talking about is that Owens hit some threes because defense by and large dared him to shoot from there. He didn't have a hand in his face and was wide open because he wasn't seen as a threat. If he was actually a good shooter from out there he would have been guarded 20 feet from the basket and found it much harder to score in my opinion.

I kind of got the feeling that Mullin allowed him to be his Manute Bol, who Don Nelson let hoist threes because he was worthless inside and thin as a rail.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=279017][quote="L J S A" post=278992][quote="Red2395" post=278982]This is just my gut feeling.

I do not believe that the father of Tariq feels that the staff cannot develop talent.
Our offence runs through the guards yes but we ran Tariq in a lot of high pick and role plays.

Does anyone else think that Tariq saw his playing time going down with Keita take a large part of his role?

Maybe he thought Keita, Clark, Simon, Ponds and Dixon were going to be starters and his role would be off the bench again[/quote]

I think Owens would have been locked in as a starter at PF. I think he left because dad wants him to score more, and because Maryland has been tampering since February.

There was a kid in the MAC, Brandon Hunter, whose coach once told him that the leading scorer in the NCAA doesn't always make the NBA, but the leading rebounder does. Not sure if it's still true, since Hunter graduated 15 years ago, but I believe Owens would have been better served by staying here and going after every rebound like a mad dog. And if that's what got him to the pros, then he can show them whether he can score or not.

Hunter by the way did lead the NCAA in rebounds after his coach told him that, and he did play in the NBA for a few seasons before going overseas.[/quote]

I told his dad exactly the same thing. It was after his dad started bitching on Twitter right after Tariq scored 13 points on 6/8 form the field or something like that. The next game Tariq laid a goose egg on offense, with something like an 0 for 8 from the field.

One thing no one is talking about is that Owens hit some threes because defense by and large dared him to shoot from there. He didn't have a hand in his face and was wide open because he wasn't seen as a threat. If he was actually a good shooter from out there he would have been guarded 20 feet from the basket and found it much harder to score in my opinion.

I kind of got the feeling that Mullin allowed him to be his Manute Bol, who Don Nelson let hoist threes because he was worthless inside and thin as a rail.[/quote]

I agree 100%. He was rarely guarded on his outside shots and he was pushed around like a rag doll inside. The Manute Bol is a great example but it also shows that Mullin has no pull with the sons of formers players.
Mully has had a hard time getting respect.
 
72,”Mullin has a hard time getting respect?” By who ? Besides you ..,. Manute Bol’s Kid ? Never Nervous Ellison had Malik here for 2 Years , including frosh season . Malik wasn’t that highly recruited out of HS and he would have been a sub or role player this year . He was a average player at best . Played well in spurts , poorly in others . Could we have used him this Year ? Absolutely , with Lovett disappearance . He had good size as a big guard but, not on Simon’s level . Who , among former NBA players has not shown Mullin respect ? Just because their kids may go elsewhere isn’t on Chris , in my view . Some grew up out West or far away locations. Jamaica , NY is a unknown location for most of them . And, I think much of the lack in getting more High Profile kids is due to our near 20 year plummet in on Court results . Not just during Mullin’s tenure . We are still rebuilding a Program as a result .
 
[quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=279078]72,”Mullin has a hard time getting respect?” By who ? Besides you ..,. Manute Bol’s Kid ? Never Nervous Ellison had Malik here for 2 Years , including frosh season . Malik wasn’t that highly recruited out of HS and he would have been a sub or role player this year . He was a average player at best . Played well in spurts , poorly in others . Could we have used him this Year ? Absolutely , with Lovett disappearance . He had good size as a big guard but, not on Simon’s level . Who , among former NBA players has not shown Mullin respect ? Just because their kids may go elsewhere isn’t on Chris , in my view . Some grew up out West or far away locations. Jamaica , NY is a unknown location for most of them . And, I think much of the lack in getting more High Profile kids is due to our near 20 year plummet in on Court results . Not just during Mullin’s tenure . We are still rebuilding a Program as a result .[/quote]

He is probably talking about Barrett and Rowan.
 
[quote="gman" post=279081][quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=279078]72,”Mullin has a hard time getting respect?” By who ? Besides you ..,. Manute Bol’s Kid ? Never Nervous Ellison had Malik here for 2 Years , including frosh season . Malik wasn’t that highly recruited out of HS and he would have been a sub or role player this year . He was a average player at best . Played well in spurts , poorly in others . Could we have used him this Year ? Absolutely , with Lovett disappearance . He had good size as a big guard but, not on Simon’s level . Who , among former NBA players has not shown Mullin respect ? Just because their kids may go elsewhere isn’t on Chris , in my view . Some grew up out West or far away locations. Jamaica , NY is a unknown location for most of them . And, I think much of the lack in getting more High Profile kids is due to our near 20 year plummet in on Court results . Not just during Mullin’s tenure . We are still rebuilding a Program as a result .[/quote]

He is probably talking about Barrett and Rowan.[/quote]

Let's see if it changes with the brother of an alum with Precious. When Mullin was hired the program had a coach that was nationally recognized and had been to 4 post season appearances. He was fired for losing his recruiting mojo and not for having 3 consecutive years of losing records and finishing last in a 10 team conference.
Mullin was supposed to restore "something". Whatever it was, it appears all he has done was restore Norm Roberts mediocrity. Having two Hall of Famers has done zilch in attracting elite recruits. And, if you can't hold on to the recruits you do sign, you sure as hell better recruit impact players because the experience factor will always kick us in the balls as each season goes by.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=279084][quote="gman" post=279081][quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=279078]72,”Mullin has a hard time getting respect?” By who ? Besides you ..,. Manute Bol’s Kid ? Never Nervous Ellison had Malik here for 2 Years , including frosh season . Malik wasn’t that highly recruited out of HS and he would have been a sub or role player this year . He was a average player at best . Played well in spurts , poorly in others . Could we have used him this Year ? Absolutely , with Lovett disappearance . He had good size as a big guard but, not on Simon’s level . Who , among former NBA players has not shown Mullin respect ? Just because their kids may go elsewhere isn’t on Chris , in my view . Some grew up out West or far away locations. Jamaica , NY is a unknown location for most of them . And, I think much of the lack in getting more High Profile kids is due to our near 20 year plummet in on Court results . Not just during Mullin’s tenure . We are still rebuilding a Program as a result .[/quote]

He is probably talking about Barrett and Rowan.[/quote]

Let's see if it changes with the brother of an alum with Precious. When Mullin was hired the program had a coach that was nationally recognized and had been to 4 post season appearances. He was fired for losing his recruiting mojo and not for having 3 consecutive years of losing records and finishing last in a 10 team conference.
Mullin was supposed to restore "something". Whatever it was, it appears all he has done was restore Norm Roberts mediocrity. Having two Hall of Famers has done zilch in attracting elite recruits. And, if you can't hold on to the recruits you do sign, you sure as hell better recruit impact players because the experience factor will always kick us in the balls as each season goes by.[/quote]

Precious is not coming here.
 
[quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=279078]72,”Mullin has a hard time getting respect?” By who ? Besides you ..,. Manute Bol’s Kid ? Never Nervous Ellison had Malik here for 2 Years , including frosh season . Malik wasn’t that highly recruited out of HS and he would have been a sub or role player this year . He was a average player at best . Played well in spurts , poorly in others . Could we have used him this Year ? Absolutely , with Lovett disappearance . He had good size as a big guard but, not on Simon’s level . Who , among former NBA players has not shown Mullin respect ? Just because their kids may go elsewhere isn’t on Chris , in my view . Some grew up out West or far away locations. Jamaica , NY is a unknown location for most of them . And, I think much of the lack in getting more High Profile kids is due to our near 20 year plummet in on Court results . Not just during Mullin’s tenure . We are still rebuilding a Program as a result .[/quote]

SFXX68
Absolutely what you wrote:
We are still rebuilding a Program as a result .[/quote]
Thanks...and old news(not fake news lol) = it takes times to rebuild and we are re-building.
WE ARE RE-BUILDING
WE ARE ST.JOHNS !!!
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=279084][quote="gman" post=279081][quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=279078]72,”Mullin has a hard time getting respect?” By who ? Besides you ..,. Manute Bol’s Kid ? Never Nervous Ellison had Malik here for 2 Years , including frosh season . Malik wasn’t that highly recruited out of HS and he would have been a sub or role player this year . He was a average player at best . Played well in spurts , poorly in others . Could we have used him this Year ? Absolutely , with Lovett disappearance . He had good size as a big guard but, not on Simon’s level . Who , among former NBA players has not shown Mullin respect ? Just because their kids may go elsewhere isn’t on Chris , in my view . Some grew up out West or far away locations. Jamaica , NY is a unknown location for most of them . And, I think much of the lack in getting more High Profile kids is due to our near 20 year plummet in on Court results . Not just during Mullin’s tenure . We are still rebuilding a Program as a result .[/quote]

He is probably talking about Barrett and Rowan.[/quote]

Let's see if it changes with the brother of an alum with Precious. When Mullin was hired the program had a coach that was nationally recognized and had been to 4 post season appearances. He was fired for losing his recruiting mojo and not for having 3 consecutive years of losing records and finishing last in a 10 team conference.
Mullin was supposed to restore "something". Whatever it was, it appears all he has done was restore Norm Roberts mediocrity. Having two Hall of Famers has done zilch in attracting elite recruits. And, if you can't hold on to the recruits you do sign, you sure as hell better recruit impact players because the experience factor will always kick us in the balls as each season goes by.[/quote]

72, do you see any improvement year to year?
 
[quote="OLV72" post=279143][quote="Class of 72" post=279084][quote="gman" post=279081][quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=279078]72,”Mullin has a hard time getting respect?” By who ? Besides you ..,. Manute Bol’s Kid ? Never Nervous Ellison had Malik here for 2 Years , including frosh season . Malik wasn’t that highly recruited out of HS and he would have been a sub or role player this year . He was a average player at best . Played well in spurts , poorly in others . Could we have used him this Year ? Absolutely , with Lovett disappearance . He had good size as a big guard but, not on Simon’s level . Who , among former NBA players has not shown Mullin respect ? Just because their kids may go elsewhere isn’t on Chris , in my view . Some grew up out West or far away locations. Jamaica , NY is a unknown location for most of them . And, I think much of the lack in getting more High Profile kids is due to our near 20 year plummet in on Court results . Not just during Mullin’s tenure . We are still rebuilding a Program as a result .[/quote]

He is probably talking about Barrett and Rowan.[/quote]

Let's see if it changes with the brother of an alum with Precious. When Mullin was hired the program had a coach that was nationally recognized and had been to 4 post season appearances. He was fired for losing his recruiting mojo and not for having 3 consecutive years of losing records and finishing last in a 10 team conference.
Mullin was supposed to restore "something". Whatever it was, it appears all he has done was restore Norm Roberts mediocrity. Having two Hall of Famers has done zilch in attracting elite recruits. And, if you can't hold on to the recruits you do sign, you sure as hell better recruit impact players because the experience factor will always kick us in the balls as each season goes by.[/quote]

72, do you see any improvement year to year?[/quote]

The improvements have been marginal. We were in last place in year one and we are last in year three.
There has been no stability with player retention rates being the lowest of any coach in recent memory.
It is unusual to wait until the 4th year of any coach's tenure to see the marginal improvements we have seen. Some supportive fans will reach waaayyy back in basketball history for examples where it took more than three years to achieve a winning record but 30 years ago there were no grad transfers, one and dones, and other volatile situations that destabilized programs. The one big plus having Matt is he specializes in the volatile college market. Not having a recruiter or someone on staff to stay on top of high school players over 2 or 3 years is hurting.
Hopefully Mullin and staff turn it around next year both on the recruiting front and in the record books because if he doesn't the greatest player in school history will also be remembered as the worst coach in school history.
That was one of the biggest fears many of us Mullin (the player) fans feared the most.
 
72, you are a good fan and your views are important . Throw out Mullin’s first year as it was largely a bare cupboard , left by the Coach who inherited a 9 Player Senior laden team that contained Dwight Hardy , a very high performing player for his breakout 1 year . That was one of Lavin’s 2 NCAA Teams . The other from his Senior laden team of DLO, Pointer, etc . Jordan played but, who amongst us , ever felt he was a team first guy ? Not many . The teams that are being successful , with some exception, are the Novas, Loyola, Xavier’s , that have concentrated on getting 4 year players . The Kentucky’s, NC and even, the Dookies have turned into 1 and done Programs . Sometimes it works , sometimes not . Mullin had to get quality players quickly . He brought in Simon and Clarke , 2 terrific high contributors that had to sit a year . They along with Ponds will be a very good nucleus for next year . With it without Owens . Many teams that are winners in the BE have also brought in quality 5 th year players . They fill a need that teams have but, just the 1 year . Hopefully we bring in a big kid who can play a little and bang underneath . We are missing that piece above all else . Get that and we compete for a NCAA spot next year . Team experience and playing together began to show in February for us , once the shock of Lovett disappearing settled in . We played very well in wins over Duke and Villanova . Big Wins ! Not many teams beat either the Cats or the Devils . It sprinkled gold dust on Mullin’s team for more than a few weeks . And , showed he had a team ! With a little luck and a few shots to drop , we had late season competitive games with SH , Creighton , Xavier, Providence , all tourney teams . We aren’t that far away heading into next season . A big man who can play is all we need to perform well .
 
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