2014 Princeton Review / St. John's

[westchesterjoe]

I'm surprised to see that no one has drawn a correlation between the tenure of the last 25 years under FH and, the downfall of Academic Standards and ratings for the University.

All that has been commented before has validity. And, no ST jOHN'S isn't G'town or ,ND but, it should not be in the low tier as it exists today..

The SJU that I attended way back in the mid , late 1960's was always below Columbia, NYU, Fordham but, not to the extent that it is today..

History will show and, evidence of FH's incompetence are already surfacing, have been terribly damaging to the University over the last 25 years.

He , singularly, has mismanaged the St John's brand to a degree that it will take years to correct. I'm not sure the Vincentian Congregation is up to the task.

DePAUL has, unquestionably, done a much better job than we have in elevating it's stature over the last 25 years than we have.

That is, excepting BB ..For now!

 

[beast of the east]

I'm surprised to see that no one has drawn a correlation between the tenure of the last 25 years under FH and, the downfall of Academic Standards and ratings for the University.

All that has been commented before has validity. And, no ST jOHN'S isn't G'town or ,ND but, it should not be in the low tier as it exists today..

The SJU that I attended way back in the mid , late 1960's was always below Columbia, NYU, Fordham but, not to the extent that it is today..

History will show and, evidence of FH's incompetence are already surfacing, have been terribly damaging to the University over the last 25 years.

He , singularly, has mismanaged the St John's brand to a degree that it will take years to correct. I'm not sure the Vincentian Congregation is up to the task.

DePAUL has, unquestionably, done a much better job than we have in elevating it's stature over the last 25 years than we have.

That is, excepting BB ..For now!

All good points, but one thing that isn't spoken of much is the overall affluence of SJU's traditional base. Back in the 50's,60's, and 70's, and perhaps into the 80s, SJU drew a solid base a middle class Catholic kids from Queens and Long Island. I think a consistent demographic is likely that the kids who went to St. John's were mostly first generation college graduates. Today, most colleged aged kids in SJU's traditional base have parents who graduated college, many from two income households, and who have saved and planned for a higher academic experience. Many among my SJU peers have sent their kids to schools that are simply better schools than SJU, and not many would consider SJU for their own kids. A school that seems to be a lower grade school has a hard time turning that around, UNLESS some of the steps I outlined above (or similar strong strategic moves) are implemented. Not likely to happen, but imagine how many high flying students a Bill Clinton could attract to St. John's if he were to hold a faculty position here, even part time according to his schedule?

St. John's failure to maintain a strong academic profile among the top 1/3 of its students is mostly due to a failure to assess and plan based on the changing demographics of its core base of applicants.

 

[monte]

Taking my son up to SUNY Albany next week to start his freshman year. The tuition at Albany is in the 20K range. My son is getting $7,500.00 per year in student loans, so he'll graduate with a very manageable $30,000.00 in loans. Between the loans and some scholarship money that he's receiving, the tuition for the next 4 years won't strangle me. The huge discrepancy in tuition between the private schools and public schools made the decision a very easy one for us.

Good luck and congratulations to your son. Not sure if this is your first, last or only child, but beginning college is such a milestone step for students and their parents. Your assessment of the value of a state university is dead on, and the reason why in a sagging economy that the NYS system in particular is attracting more attention and high caliber applicants. My son is a year away from starting his freshman year in college, and it will be as difficult emotionally for my wife and I to see him go as it was for my oldest.

Thanks so much Beast. My son is the older of my 2 children. I also have a daughter who is entering he sophomore year of high school. I have very mixed emotions about my son going away. On one hand I know it will be a wonderful and maturing experience for him. On the other hand, as with you and your wife, it will tough emotionally for me. I have to admit, the entire process was at times a bit daunting for me(I'm a single Dad). Although not nearly as daunting as the High School admissions process was with my daughter . We looked at public, Catholic and private(Catholic and non-Catholic) schools over the course her 7th and 8th grade. Unlike College, there are no "common applications" for High Schools. At the end of the process we decided on Loyola, which was no doubt the right choice. I feel confident that Albany is the right school for my son. Of course time will tell. Best of luck to you, your wife and your son as you go through the college admission process. In spite of the fact that I sometimes found it daunting, I actually really enjoyed sharing the experience with my son. Something my parents didn't do with me.

 

[beast of the east]

Taking my son up to SUNY Albany next week to start his freshman year. The tuition at Albany is in the 20K range. My son is getting $7,500.00 per year in student loans, so he'll graduate with a very manageable $30,000.00 in loans. Between the loans and some scholarship money that he's receiving, the tuition for the next 4 years won't strangle me. The huge discrepancy in tuition between the private schools and public schools made the decision a very easy one for us.

Good luck and congratulations to your son. Not sure if this is your first, last or only child, but beginning college is such a milestone step for students and their parents. Your assessment of the value of a state university is dead on, and the reason why in a sagging economy that the NYS system in particular is attracting more attention and high caliber applicants. My son is a year away from starting his freshman year in college, and it will be as difficult emotionally for my wife and I to see him go as it was for my oldest.

Thanks so much Beast. My son is the older of my 2 children. I also have a daughter who is entering he sophomore year of high school. I have very mixed emotions about my son going away. On one hand I know it will be a wonderful and maturing experience for him. On the other hand, as with you and your wife, it will tough emotionally for me. I have to admit, the entire process was at times a bit daunting for me(I'm a single Dad). Although not nearly as daunting as the High School admissions process was with my daughter . We looked at public, Catholic and private(Catholic and non-Catholic) schools over the course her 7th and 8th grade. Unlike College, there are no "common applications" for High Schools. At the end of the process we decided on Loyola, which was no doubt the right choice. I feel confident that Albany is the right school for my son. Of course time will tell. Best of luck to you, your wife and your son as you go through the college admission process. In spite of the fact that I sometimes found it daunting, I actually really enjoyed sharing the experience with my son. Something my parents didn't do with me.

My kids have all grown up around SJU basketball. My oldest daughter (eventually a CHSAA player) was in the sixth grade when she declared she would play for St. John's women and help restore the program - high goal never met, but underscored how big a fan she was at that age. We still have there St. John's red winter parkas that they wore in the middle grades. They have all accompanied me to games over the years, sometimes just one, often all three. When my oldest daughter started college, I rotated the two kids as game buddies, and when both girls were in school my son and I went to all the St. John's games and also a partial season ticket plan w the Mets. Even though he is now 17, he is still as close as a 17 year old can be to his dad - it's important for kids to pull away at that age, but I always check in with him emotionally with frequency and also from a discipline standpoint always. He is a great kid, but the fear of death by father helps too.

When we dropped my oldest daughter off at school, she was much more prepared for how to make an emotional goodbye easier. After we moved her in, and it was time for goodbyes and for us to drive away, she said "Okay, I'm going to go now." She didn't want to be standing at a curb crying as her parents pulled away. So, we watched from the car as she walked away into a new phase of her life. My wife and I shed a few tears, but also knew that she was mature enough and focused enough to face the challenge of being away.

My son has been very discerning about college visits, and is really sifting all the choices in a mature way. Out experience is the same as yours - it's a great parent - child thing to do. I've made some trips with my wife and son, and one trip with just me and him. The alone time with him was great. Like you, I'll miss him immensely, but he's assured me that he will look forward to all the calls and texts, and even announced visits.

 

[otis]

What is telling about the St.John's University of today is that so many individuals that post on this site have strong affection to St. John's based upon their own experience at the school yet their children have not followed them there.

Let me ask, is there any poster reading this message that graduated from St.John's and had one or more of their children also graduated from St.John's. Thanks.

 

[westchesterjoe]

I'm surprised to see that no one has drawn a correlation between the tenure of the last 25 years under FH and, the downfall of Academic Standards and ratings for the University.

All that has been commented before has validity. And, no ST jOHN'S isn't G'town or ,ND but, it should not be in the low tier as it exists today..

The SJU that I attended way back in the mid , late 1960's was always below Columbia, NYU, Fordham but, not to the extent that it is today..

History will show and, evidence of FH's incompetence are already surfacing, have been terribly damaging to the University over the last 25 years.

He , singularly, has mismanaged the St John's brand to a degree that it will take years to correct. I'm not sure the Vincentian Congregation is up to the task.

DePAUL has, unquestionably, done a much better job than we have in elevating it's stature over the last 25 years than we have.

That is, excepting BB ..For now!

All good points, but one thing that isn't spoken of much is the overall affluence of SJU's traditional base. Back in the 50's,60's, and 70's, and perhaps into the 80s, SJU drew a solid base a middle class Catholic kids from Queens and Long Island. I think a consistent demographic is likely that the kids who went to St. John's were mostly first generation college graduates. Today, most colleged aged kids in SJU's traditional base have parents who graduated college, many from two income households, and who have saved and planned for a higher academic experience. Many among my SJU peers have sent their kids to schools that are simply better schools than SJU, and not many would consider SJU for their own kids. A school that seems to be a lower grade school has a hard time turning that around, UNLESS some of the steps I outlined above (or similar strong strategic moves) are implemented. Not likely to happen, but imagine how many high flying students a Bill Clinton could attract to St. John's if he were to hold a faculty position here, even part time according to his schedule?

St. John's failure to maintain a strong academic profile among the top 1/3 of its students is mostly due to a failure to assess and plan based on the changing demographics of its core base of applicants.

All very true, BOE.. FH seemed to abandon Metro NY Catholic HS kids.. SJU was easy to get into in my day, compared to the other Area Colleges but, if you didn't maintain your grades they didn't carry you,especially at the end of the Freshman year.. I was surprised so many of my classmates didn't make it into their soph year..

I learned well from business curriculum and felt it helped me in my career over 40 years.

 

[beast of the east]

I'm surprised to see that no one has drawn a correlation between the tenure of the last 25 years under FH and, the downfall of Academic Standards and ratings for the University.

All that has been commented before has validity. And, no ST jOHN'S isn't G'town or ,ND but, it should not be in the low tier as it exists today..

The SJU that I attended way back in the mid , late 1960's was always below Columbia, NYU, Fordham but, not to the extent that it is today..

History will show and, evidence of FH's incompetence are already surfacing, have been terribly damaging to the University over the last 25 years.

He , singularly, has mismanaged the St John's brand to a degree that it will take years to correct. I'm not sure the Vincentian Congregation is up to the task.

DePAUL has, unquestionably, done a much better job than we have in elevating it's stature over the last 25 years than we have.

That is, excepting BB ..For now!

All good points, but one thing that isn't spoken of much is the overall affluence of SJU's traditional base. Back in the 50's,60's, and 70's, and perhaps into the 80s, SJU drew a solid base a middle class Catholic kids from Queens and Long Island. I think a consistent demographic is likely that the kids who went to St. John's were mostly first generation college graduates. Today, most colleged aged kids in SJU's traditional base have parents who graduated college, many from two income households, and who have saved and planned for a higher academic experience. Many among my SJU peers have sent their kids to schools that are simply better schools than SJU, and not many would consider SJU for their own kids. A school that seems to be a lower grade school has a hard time turning that around, UNLESS some of the steps I outlined above (or similar strong strategic moves) are implemented. Not likely to happen, but imagine how many high flying students a Bill Clinton could attract to St. John's if he were to hold a faculty position here, even part time according to his schedule?

St. John's failure to maintain a strong academic profile among the top 1/3 of its students is mostly due to a failure to assess and plan based on the changing demographics of its core base of applicants.

All very true, BOE.. FH seemed to abandon Metro NY Catholic HS kids.. SJU was easy to get into in my day, compared to the other Area Colleges but, if you didn't maintain your grades they didn't carry you,especially at the end of the Freshman year.. I was surprised so many of my classmates didn't make it into their soph year..

I learned well from business curriculum and felt it helped me in my career over 40 years.

In my SJU experience, there were some very marginal students on campus, but also a very healthy percentage of kids who were at or very near the top of their high school graduating class. Otis' stats above are telling in terms of the % enrolled who are in the top 10% and 25% of their high school graduating class.

 

[McGarry2]

25 years ago we did not exist as far as the Princeton review was concerned.

 

[monte]

What is telling about the St.John's University of today is that so many individuals that post on this site have strong affection to St. John's based upon their own experience at the school yet their children have not followed them there.

Let me ask, is there any poster reading this message that graduated from St.John's and had one or more of their children also graduated from St.John's. Thanks.

Otis regardless of my strong affection for St. Johns, I want my 2 children to attend the colleges which are the best fit for them. Additionally I want my children to experience going away to school. However if my daughter-a high school sophomore-decides that she wants to stay home, sad to say that St. Johns will not be one of the schools that we consider......for a number of reasons.

 

[otis]

...... if my daughter-a high school sophomore-decides that she wants to stay home, sad to say that St. Johns will not be one of the schools that we consider......for a number of reasons.

monte- unfortunately your feelings are unfortunately shared by many, if not all posters on this site.

Let me again ask again; is there just one poster on this site that graduated from St.John's and had at least one of their kids graduate from St.John's ?

The silence tells you all you need to know about how the school has been managed over the past 2 decades.

 

[monte]

...... if my daughter-a high school sophomore-decides that she wants to stay home, sad to say that St. Johns will not be one of the schools that we consider......for a number of reasons.

monte- unfortunately your feelings are unfortunately shared by many, if not all posters on this site.

Let me again ask again; is there just one poster on this site that graduated from St.John's and had at least one of their kids graduate from St.John's ?

The silence tells you all you need to know about how the school has been managed over the past 2 decades.

While I agree that the school has been mismanaged, I'm not so sure that the perception of St. Johns has changed over the years as much as you might think. I want different things for my children than my parents wanted for me. My children, having been exposed to much more than I was growing up, want different things for themselves. St. Johns doesn't fit the bill. I wish it did but it doesn't. That's not the school's fault. My parents and many of the other parents of their generation,especially those in the same socio-economic group, considered St. John's a good local school. My parents were proud to say that their oldest child attended St. Johns. They still are. There are a lot of parents out there now who feel the same way. My brother-in-law(an SJU grad) happens to be one of those parents. My niece, a HS senior on LI, will likely wind up going to St. Johns. Her boyfriend, a Freshman at SJU, speaks about the school as though its Oxford, which I think is wonderful. Not the right fit for my children, but clearly the right fit for thousands of other children.