2014 Princeton Review / St. John's

Oh, my.

Rankings And Lists
Least Happy Students :
# 17
Professors Get Low Marks:
# 19
Least Accessible Professors:
# 12
Students Study the Least:
# 11



Honestly I have to say the overwhelming majority of my professors have been fantastic and extremely accessible. These rankings give us a terrible name though. Very disappointed.
 
With the ridiculous amount of rules at the dorms, and being forced to take pointless 1 credit classes like discover new york. Im not surprised with the least happy students ranking.

I had a great time and I don't regret it, but they set stricter rules than most peoples parents, and the dorms which are supposed to be the biggest draw, people cant wait to get out and find an off campus apartment. I'm pretty sure we have a big transfer rate too.

They suck at making current students happy and then they want them not to develop animosity towards the school and administration and want to donate their money. Get a clue, alumni donations start at freshman year.
 
With the ridiculous amount of rules at the dorms, and being forced to take pointless 1 credit classes like discover new york. Im not surprised with the least happy students ranking.

I had a great time and I don't regret it, but they set stricter rules than most peoples parents, and the dorms which are supposed to be the biggest draw, people cant wait to get out and find an off campus apartment. I'm pretty sure we have a big transfer rate too.

They suck at making current students happy and then they want them not to develop animosity towards the school and administration and want to donate their money. Get a clue, alumni donations start at freshman year.
Click to expand...

Isn't "Discover New York" only for out of state/country students? How can they force people who live 20-50 miles away (lots of such students who commute) who grew up their entire lives in the shadow of NYC to take that?
 
how long ago did you go to school? DNY has been the most protested class since 2003. All freshmen regardless of where they are from must take this class, and the credit doesn't transfer anywhere.
 
how long ago did you go to school? DNY has been the most protested class since 2003. All freshmen regardless of where they are from must take this class, and the credit doesn't transfer anywhere.
 
Oh, my.

Rankings And Lists
Least Happy Students :
# 17
Professors Get Low Marks:
# 19
Least Accessible Professors:
# 12
Students Study the Least:
# 11



Honestly I have to say the overwhelming majority of my professors have been fantastic and extremely accessible. These rankings give us a terrible name though. Very disappointed.
Click to expand...

You are in grad school no? When I was in grad school, I went at night, and nearly all my professors were adjuncts who had working experience with the subject matter. It was quite different than my undergraduate experience.

Least Happy Students :# 17. It seems to be a tradition and hallmark of St. John's, reflected in the low % of alumni benefactors.

Professors Get Low Marks:# 19 I was at Boston University today. Their faculty includes Elie Wiesel and two Nobel prize winners. Not only do they all actually teach, but Wiesel does occasional lectures open to all students. If you spend for high caliber faculty, instead of a history of hiring the lowest cost faculty possible, perhaps students would grade them higher.

Least Accessible Professors:# 12: Doing the College tour, I've heard over and over at the schools we've visited how accessible faculty are, including anecdotes that faculty frequently have lunch or coffee with students, invite them to their homes, and meet outside of scheduled office hours. SJU profs should take a cue.


Students Study the Least: 11. Not surprised when 40% of your student population is a floodgate burst of Pell eligible students. SJU seems less selective outside of pharmacy and allied health professions than ever before. Again, just another indicator of a student body that isn't high caliber, and not very motivated.
 
The Princeton Review rankings are merely just another indication of the academic culture which today exists at St.John's University.

It doesn't have to be this way.

It is sad; we should expect more.
 
Oh what the hell. I'll go for the hat trick. Abu thread, Terrell thread and now this one :)

sky+is+falling.jpg
 
Oh, my.

Rankings And Lists
Least Happy Students :
# 17
Professors Get Low Marks:
# 19
Least Accessible Professors:
# 12
Students Study the Least:
# 11



Honestly I have to say the overwhelming majority of my professors have been fantastic and extremely accessible. These rankings give us a terrible name though. Very disappointed.
Click to expand...

You are in grad school no? When I was in grad school, I went at night, and nearly all my professors were adjuncts who had working experience with the subject matter. It was quite different than my undergraduate experience.

Least Happy Students :# 17. It seems to be a tradition and hallmark of St. John's, reflected in the low % of alumni benefactors.

Professors Get Low Marks:# 19 I was at Boston University today. Their faculty includes Elie Wiesel and two Nobel prize winners. Not only do they all actually teach, but Wiesel does occasional lectures open to all students. If you spend for high caliber faculty, instead of a history of hiring the lowest cost faculty possible, perhaps students would grade them higher.

Least Accessible Professors:# 12: Doing the College tour, I've heard over and over at the schools we've visited how accessible faculty are, including anecdotes that faculty frequently have lunch or coffee with students, invite them to their homes, and meet outside of scheduled office hours. SJU profs should take a cue.


Students Study the Least: 11. Not surprised when 40% of your student population is a floodgate burst of Pell eligible students. SJU seems less selective outside of pharmacy and allied health professions than ever before. Again, just another indicator of a student body that isn't high caliber, and not very motivated.
Click to expand...


Not surprised when 40% of your student population is a floodgate burst of Pell eligible students. SJU seems less selective outside of pharmacy and allied health professions than ever before. Again, just another indicator of a student body that isn't high caliber, and not very motivated

This is exactly what I've implied before and gotten killed over. It's true though. And not to start a diversity debate again but having too much diversity can sacrifice academic reputation and prestige. What's more important, saying "Hey, look at us, we swear we aren't racist! Look how many non-white students we have! We are so multicultural!" or saying "Hey, look at us, we have nobel prize winning faculty, a very selective university, and our students are top notch!"? That's essentially what the debate comes down to. Don't get me wrong, some diversity is just fine, but as the saying goes, "too much of anything isn't good for you".
 
Oh, my.

Rankings And Lists
Least Happy Students :
# 17
Professors Get Low Marks:
# 19
Least Accessible Professors:
# 12
Students Study the Least:
# 11



Honestly I have to say the overwhelming majority of my professors have been fantastic and extremely accessible. These rankings give us a terrible name though. Very disappointed.
Click to expand...

You are in grad school no? When I was in grad school, I went at night, and nearly all my professors were adjuncts who had working experience with the subject matter. It was quite different than my undergraduate experience.

Least Happy Students :# 17. It seems to be a tradition and hallmark of St. John's, reflected in the low % of alumni benefactors.

Professors Get Low Marks:# 19 I was at Boston University today. Their faculty includes Elie Wiesel and two Nobel prize winners. Not only do they all actually teach, but Wiesel does occasional lectures open to all students. If you spend for high caliber faculty, instead of a history of hiring the lowest cost faculty possible, perhaps students would grade them higher.

Least Accessible Professors:# 12: Doing the College tour, I've heard over and over at the schools we've visited how accessible faculty are, including anecdotes that faculty frequently have lunch or coffee with students, invite them to their homes, and meet outside of scheduled office hours. SJU profs should take a cue.


Students Study the Least: 11. Not surprised when 40% of your student population is a floodgate burst of Pell eligible students. SJU seems less selective outside of pharmacy and allied health professions than ever before. Again, just another indicator of a student body that isn't high caliber, and not very motivated.
Click to expand...


Not surprised when 40% of your student population is a floodgate burst of Pell eligible students. SJU seems less selective outside of pharmacy and allied health professions than ever before. Again, just another indicator of a student body that isn't high caliber, and not very motivated

This is exactly what I've implied before and gotten killed over. It's true though. And not to start a diversity debate again but having too much diversity can sacrifice academic reputation and prestige. What's more important, saying "Hey, look at us, we swear we aren't racist! Look how many non-white students we have! We are so multicultural!" or saying "Hey, look at us, we have nobel prize winning faculty, a very selective university, and our students are top notch!"? That's essentially what the debate comes down to. Don't get me wrong, some diversity is just fine, but as the saying goes, "too much of anything isn't good for you".
Click to expand...

Joe, I'm not going to do this dance with you. Qualified applicants are qualified no matter what race or ethnicity; the same is true for unqualified applicants. I've now visited about 10 colleges as part of the college search thing, and encountered many students of every persuasion. At some schools, I cannot believe how they could appoint tour guides who reflect so poorly on the school. At other schools, top notch schools, there were frequently students who fit the "diversity" quest that many colleges are on, and they possessed the same incredible energy, accomplishments and communication skills as other students. The point is, if you are more selective, no matter what a student's background or economic status is, you can get a great student. When you are selecting 40% of students from an economic population that is statistically in the lower performing group of students, you are likely going to drag down the academic profile of your college or university. period.
 
Oh, my.

Rankings And Lists
Least Happy Students :
# 17
Professors Get Low Marks:
# 19
Least Accessible Professors:
# 12
Students Study the Least:
# 11



Honestly I have to say the overwhelming majority of my professors have been fantastic and extremely accessible. These rankings give us a terrible name though. Very disappointed.
Click to expand...

You are in grad school no? When I was in grad school, I went at night, and nearly all my professors were adjuncts who had working experience with the subject matter. It was quite different than my undergraduate experience.

Least Happy Students :# 17. It seems to be a tradition and hallmark of St. John's, reflected in the low % of alumni benefactors.

Professors Get Low Marks:# 19 I was at Boston University today. Their faculty includes Elie Wiesel and two Nobel prize winners. Not only do they all actually teach, but Wiesel does occasional lectures open to all students. If you spend for high caliber faculty, instead of a history of hiring the lowest cost faculty possible, perhaps students would grade them higher.

Least Accessible Professors:# 12: Doing the College tour, I've heard over and over at the schools we've visited how accessible faculty are, including anecdotes that faculty frequently have lunch or coffee with students, invite them to their homes, and meet outside of scheduled office hours. SJU profs should take a cue.


Students Study the Least: 11. Not surprised when 40% of your student population is a floodgate burst of Pell eligible students. SJU seems less selective outside of pharmacy and allied health professions than ever before. Again, just another indicator of a student body that isn't high caliber, and not very motivated.
Click to expand...


Not surprised when 40% of your student population is a floodgate burst of Pell eligible students. SJU seems less selective outside of pharmacy and allied health professions than ever before. Again, just another indicator of a student body that isn't high caliber, and not very motivated

This is exactly what I've implied before and gotten killed over. It's true though. And not to start a diversity debate again but having too much diversity can sacrifice academic reputation and prestige. What's more important, saying "Hey, look at us, we swear we aren't racist! Look how many non-white students we have! We are so multicultural!" or saying "Hey, look at us, we have nobel prize winning faculty, a very selective university, and our students are top notch!"? That's essentially what the debate comes down to. Don't get me wrong, some diversity is just fine, but as the saying goes, "too much of anything isn't good for you".
Click to expand...

Joe, I'm not going to do this dance with you. Qualified applicants are qualified no matter what race or ethnicity; the same is true for unqualified applicants. I've now visited about 10 colleges as part of the college search thing, and encountered many students of every persuasion. At some schools, I cannot believe how they could appoint tour guides who reflect so poorly on the school. At other schools, top notch schools, there were frequently students who fit the "diversity" quest that many colleges are on, and they possessed the same incredible energy, accomplishments and communication skills as other students. The point is, if you are more selective, no matter what a student's background or economic status is, you can get a great student. When you are selecting 40% of students from an economic population that is statistically in the lower performing group of students, you are likely going to drag down the academic profile of your college or university. period.
Click to expand...

So you agree with me? :huh: I agree with the last part...so I say stop selecting the 40% of students from those populations just for the sake of being PC or trying to save the world or diversity or whatever the reasons may be. I recall someone posting a stat that had SJU receiving around 50,000 applications each year though I could be wrong. If that's true though, surely there are better applicants we are not picking for the reasons above. That's all I'm saying. In a big pond of applicants, why pick some guppies instead of a prize fish?
 
Oh, my.

Rankings And Lists
Least Happy Students :
# 17
Professors Get Low Marks:
# 19
Least Accessible Professors:
# 12
Students Study the Least:
# 11



Honestly I have to say the overwhelming majority of my professors have been fantastic and extremely accessible. These rankings give us a terrible name though. Very disappointed.
Click to expand...

You are in grad school no? When I was in grad school, I went at night, and nearly all my professors were adjuncts who had working experience with the subject matter. It was quite different than my undergraduate experience.

Least Happy Students :# 17. It seems to be a tradition and hallmark of St. John's, reflected in the low % of alumni benefactors.

Professors Get Low Marks:# 19 I was at Boston University today. Their faculty includes Elie Wiesel and two Nobel prize winners. Not only do they all actually teach, but Wiesel does occasional lectures open to all students. If you spend for high caliber faculty, instead of a history of hiring the lowest cost faculty possible, perhaps students would grade them higher.

Least Accessible Professors:# 12: Doing the College tour, I've heard over and over at the schools we've visited how accessible faculty are, including anecdotes that faculty frequently have lunch or coffee with students, invite them to their homes, and meet outside of scheduled office hours. SJU profs should take a cue.


Students Study the Least: 11. Not surprised when 40% of your student population is a floodgate burst of Pell eligible students. SJU seems less selective outside of pharmacy and allied health professions than ever before. Again, just another indicator of a student body that isn't high caliber, and not very motivated.
Click to expand...


Not surprised when 40% of your student population is a floodgate burst of Pell eligible students. SJU seems less selective outside of pharmacy and allied health professions than ever before. Again, just another indicator of a student body that isn't high caliber, and not very motivated

This is exactly what I've implied before and gotten killed over. It's true though. And not to start a diversity debate again but having too much diversity can sacrifice academic reputation and prestige. What's more important, saying "Hey, look at us, we swear we aren't racist! Look how many non-white students we have! We are so multicultural!" or saying "Hey, look at us, we have nobel prize winning faculty, a very selective university, and our students are top notch!"? That's essentially what the debate comes down to. Don't get me wrong, some diversity is just fine, but as the saying goes, "too much of anything isn't good for you".
Click to expand...

Joe, I'm not going to do this dance with you. Qualified applicants are qualified no matter what race or ethnicity; the same is true for unqualified applicants. I've now visited about 10 colleges as part of the college search thing, and encountered many students of every persuasion. At some schools, I cannot believe how they could appoint tour guides who reflect so poorly on the school. At other schools, top notch schools, there were frequently students who fit the "diversity" quest that many colleges are on, and they possessed the same incredible energy, accomplishments and communication skills as other students. The point is, if you are more selective, no matter what a student's background or economic status is, you can get a great student. When you are selecting 40% of students from an economic population that is statistically in the lower performing group of students, you are likely going to drag down the academic profile of your college or university. period.
Click to expand...

So you agree with me? :huh:
Click to expand...

No. I'm saying that if SJU wants 40% of their student body to be Pell eligible, then they should be working their butts off to find Pell eligible applicants who also possess excellent academic credentials.
 
Oh, my.

Rankings And Lists
Least Happy Students :
# 17
Professors Get Low Marks:
# 19
Least Accessible Professors:
# 12
Students Study the Least:
# 11



Honestly I have to say the overwhelming majority of my professors have been fantastic and extremely accessible. These rankings give us a terrible name though. Very disappointed.
Click to expand...

You are in grad school no? When I was in grad school, I went at night, and nearly all my professors were adjuncts who had working experience with the subject matter. It was quite different than my undergraduate experience.

Least Happy Students :# 17. It seems to be a tradition and hallmark of St. John's, reflected in the low % of alumni benefactors.

Professors Get Low Marks:# 19 I was at Boston University today. Their faculty includes Elie Wiesel and two Nobel prize winners. Not only do they all actually teach, but Wiesel does occasional lectures open to all students. If you spend for high caliber faculty, instead of a history of hiring the lowest cost faculty possible, perhaps students would grade them higher.

Least Accessible Professors:# 12: Doing the College tour, I've heard over and over at the schools we've visited how accessible faculty are, including anecdotes that faculty frequently have lunch or coffee with students, invite them to their homes, and meet outside of scheduled office hours. SJU profs should take a cue.


Students Study the Least: 11. Not surprised when 40% of your student population is a floodgate burst of Pell eligible students. SJU seems less selective outside of pharmacy and allied health professions than ever before. Again, just another indicator of a student body that isn't high caliber, and not very motivated.
Click to expand...


Not surprised when 40% of your student population is a floodgate burst of Pell eligible students. SJU seems less selective outside of pharmacy and allied health professions than ever before. Again, just another indicator of a student body that isn't high caliber, and not very motivated

This is exactly what I've implied before and gotten killed over. It's true though. And not to start a diversity debate again but having too much diversity can sacrifice academic reputation and prestige. What's more important, saying "Hey, look at us, we swear we aren't racist! Look how many non-white students we have! We are so multicultural!" or saying "Hey, look at us, we have nobel prize winning faculty, a very selective university, and our students are top notch!"? That's essentially what the debate comes down to. Don't get me wrong, some diversity is just fine, but as the saying goes, "too much of anything isn't good for you".
Click to expand...

Joe, I'm not going to do this dance with you. Qualified applicants are qualified no matter what race or ethnicity; the same is true for unqualified applicants. I've now visited about 10 colleges as part of the college search thing, and encountered many students of every persuasion. At some schools, I cannot believe how they could appoint tour guides who reflect so poorly on the school. At other schools, top notch schools, there were frequently students who fit the "diversity" quest that many colleges are on, and they possessed the same incredible energy, accomplishments and communication skills as other students. The point is, if you are more selective, no matter what a student's background or economic status is, you can get a great student. When you are selecting 40% of students from an economic population that is statistically in the lower performing group of students, you are likely going to drag down the academic profile of your college or university. period.
Click to expand...

So you agree with me? :huh:
Click to expand...

No. I'm saying that if SJU wants 40% of their student body to be Pell eligible, then they should be working their butts off to find Pell eligible applicants who also possess excellent academic credentials.
Click to expand...

And again we agree. But the only problem with that is we are not Columbia. The great students from poor backgrounds are extremely rare and Columbia and the like get the first crack. They get the 1st round picks of that pool. We get probably the 3rd or 4th round picks of the same pool. So why not just say screw it, stop going for these populations specifically and just use standards? I'm not understanding why this is such a taboo thing...it's logic is it not?
 
Oh, my.

Rankings And Lists
Least Happy Students :
# 17
Professors Get Low Marks:
# 19
Least Accessible Professors:
# 12
Students Study the Least:
# 11



Honestly I have to say the overwhelming majority of my professors have been fantastic and extremely accessible. These rankings give us a terrible name though. Very disappointed.
Click to expand...

You are in grad school no? When I was in grad school, I went at night, and nearly all my professors were adjuncts who had working experience with the subject matter. It was quite different than my undergraduate experience.

Least Happy Students :# 17. It seems to be a tradition and hallmark of St. John's, reflected in the low % of alumni benefactors.

Professors Get Low Marks:# 19 I was at Boston University today. Their faculty includes Elie Wiesel and two Nobel prize winners. Not only do they all actually teach, but Wiesel does occasional lectures open to all students. If you spend for high caliber faculty, instead of a history of hiring the lowest cost faculty possible, perhaps students would grade them higher.

Least Accessible Professors:# 12: Doing the College tour, I've heard over and over at the schools we've visited how accessible faculty are, including anecdotes that faculty frequently have lunch or coffee with students, invite them to their homes, and meet outside of scheduled office hours. SJU profs should take a cue.


Students Study the Least: 11. Not surprised when 40% of your student population is a floodgate burst of Pell eligible students. SJU seems less selective outside of pharmacy and allied health professions than ever before. Again, just another indicator of a student body that isn't high caliber, and not very motivated.
Click to expand...


Not surprised when 40% of your student population is a floodgate burst of Pell eligible students. SJU seems less selective outside of pharmacy and allied health professions than ever before. Again, just another indicator of a student body that isn't high caliber, and not very motivated

This is exactly what I've implied before and gotten killed over. It's true though. And not to start a diversity debate again but having too much diversity can sacrifice academic reputation and prestige. What's more important, saying "Hey, look at us, we swear we aren't racist! Look how many non-white students we have! We are so multicultural!" or saying "Hey, look at us, we have nobel prize winning faculty, a very selective university, and our students are top notch!"? That's essentially what the debate comes down to. Don't get me wrong, some diversity is just fine, but as the saying goes, "too much of anything isn't good for you".
Click to expand...

Joe, I'm not going to do this dance with you. Qualified applicants are qualified no matter what race or ethnicity; the same is true for unqualified applicants. I've now visited about 10 colleges as part of the college search thing, and encountered many students of every persuasion. At some schools, I cannot believe how they could appoint tour guides who reflect so poorly on the school. At other schools, top notch schools, there were frequently students who fit the "diversity" quest that many colleges are on, and they possessed the same incredible energy, accomplishments and communication skills as other students. The point is, if you are more selective, no matter what a student's background or economic status is, you can get a great student. When you are selecting 40% of students from an economic population that is statistically in the lower performing group of students, you are likely going to drag down the academic profile of your college or university. period.
Click to expand...

So you agree with me? :huh:
Click to expand...

No. I'm saying that if SJU wants 40% of their student body to be Pell eligible, then they should be working their butts off to find Pell eligible applicants who also possess excellent academic credentials.
Click to expand...

And again we agree. But the only problem with that is we are not Columbia. The great students from poor backgrounds are extremely rare and Columbia and the like get the first crack. They get the 1st round picks of that pool. We get probably the 3rd or 4th round picks of the same pool. So why not just say screw it, stop going for these populations specifically and just use standards? I'm not understanding why this is such a taboo thing...it's logic is it not?
Click to expand...

I got a Pell grant and studied and I am white.
 
Oh, my.

Rankings And Lists
Least Happy Students :
# 17
Professors Get Low Marks:
# 19
Least Accessible Professors:
# 12
Students Study the Least:
# 11



Honestly I have to say the overwhelming majority of my professors have been fantastic and extremely accessible. These rankings give us a terrible name though. Very disappointed.
Click to expand...

You are in grad school no? When I was in grad school, I went at night, and nearly all my professors were adjuncts who had working experience with the subject matter. It was quite different than my undergraduate experience.

Least Happy Students :# 17. It seems to be a tradition and hallmark of St. John's, reflected in the low % of alumni benefactors.

Professors Get Low Marks:# 19 I was at Boston University today. Their faculty includes Elie Wiesel and two Nobel prize winners. Not only do they all actually teach, but Wiesel does occasional lectures open to all students. If you spend for high caliber faculty, instead of a history of hiring the lowest cost faculty possible, perhaps students would grade them higher.

Least Accessible Professors:# 12: Doing the College tour, I've heard over and over at the schools we've visited how accessible faculty are, including anecdotes that faculty frequently have lunch or coffee with students, invite them to their homes, and meet outside of scheduled office hours. SJU profs should take a cue.


Students Study the Least: 11. Not surprised when 40% of your student population is a floodgate burst of Pell eligible students. SJU seems less selective outside of pharmacy and allied health professions than ever before. Again, just another indicator of a student body that isn't high caliber, and not very motivated.
Click to expand...


Not surprised when 40% of your student population is a floodgate burst of Pell eligible students. SJU seems less selective outside of pharmacy and allied health professions than ever before. Again, just another indicator of a student body that isn't high caliber, and not very motivated

This is exactly what I've implied before and gotten killed over. It's true though. And not to start a diversity debate again but having too much diversity can sacrifice academic reputation and prestige. What's more important, saying "Hey, look at us, we swear we aren't racist! Look how many non-white students we have! We are so multicultural!" or saying "Hey, look at us, we have nobel prize winning faculty, a very selective university, and our students are top notch!"? That's essentially what the debate comes down to. Don't get me wrong, some diversity is just fine, but as the saying goes, "too much of anything isn't good for you".
Click to expand...

Joe, I'm not going to do this dance with you. Qualified applicants are qualified no matter what race or ethnicity; the same is true for unqualified applicants. I've now visited about 10 colleges as part of the college search thing, and encountered many students of every persuasion. At some schools, I cannot believe how they could appoint tour guides who reflect so poorly on the school. At other schools, top notch schools, there were frequently students who fit the "diversity" quest that many colleges are on, and they possessed the same incredible energy, accomplishments and communication skills as other students. The point is, if you are more selective, no matter what a student's background or economic status is, you can get a great student. When you are selecting 40% of students from an economic population that is statistically in the lower performing group of students, you are likely going to drag down the academic profile of your college or university. period.
Click to expand...

So you agree with me? :huh:
Click to expand...

No. I'm saying that if SJU wants 40% of their student body to be Pell eligible, then they should be working their butts off to find Pell eligible applicants who also possess excellent academic credentials.
Click to expand...

And again we agree. But the only problem with that is we are not Columbia. The great students from poor backgrounds are extremely rare and Columbia and the like get the first crack. They get the 1st round picks of that pool. We get probably the 3rd or 4th round picks of the same pool. So why not just say screw it, stop going for these populations specifically and just use standards? I'm not understanding why this is such a taboo thing...it's logic is it not?
Click to expand...

I got a Pell grant and studied and I am white.
Click to expand...

Andrew,
Obviously I went to great pains not to be critical of all Pell students, since there are great students who are Pell eligible. I'm curious though - how much in students loans are you carrying, and what do you expect your total student loan debt will be at graduation (if you haven't' graduated already)?
 
Oh, my.

Rankings And Lists
Least Happy Students :
# 17
Professors Get Low Marks:
# 19
Least Accessible Professors:
# 12
Students Study the Least:
# 11



Honestly I have to say the overwhelming majority of my professors have been fantastic and extremely accessible. These rankings give us a terrible name though. Very disappointed.
Click to expand...

You are in grad school no? When I was in grad school, I went at night, and nearly all my professors were adjuncts who had working experience with the subject matter. It was quite different than my undergraduate experience.

Least Happy Students :# 17. It seems to be a tradition and hallmark of St. John's, reflected in the low % of alumni benefactors.

Professors Get Low Marks:# 19 I was at Boston University today. Their faculty includes Elie Wiesel and two Nobel prize winners. Not only do they all actually teach, but Wiesel does occasional lectures open to all students. If you spend for high caliber faculty, instead of a history of hiring the lowest cost faculty possible, perhaps students would grade them higher.

Least Accessible Professors:# 12: Doing the College tour, I've heard over and over at the schools we've visited how accessible faculty are, including anecdotes that faculty frequently have lunch or coffee with students, invite them to their homes, and meet outside of scheduled office hours. SJU profs should take a cue.


Students Study the Least: 11. Not surprised when 40% of your student population is a floodgate burst of Pell eligible students. SJU seems less selective outside of pharmacy and allied health professions than ever before. Again, just another indicator of a student body that isn't high caliber, and not very motivated.
Click to expand...


Not surprised when 40% of your student population is a floodgate burst of Pell eligible students. SJU seems less selective outside of pharmacy and allied health professions than ever before. Again, just another indicator of a student body that isn't high caliber, and not very motivated

This is exactly what I've implied before and gotten killed over. It's true though. And not to start a diversity debate again but having too much diversity can sacrifice academic reputation and prestige. What's more important, saying "Hey, look at us, we swear we aren't racist! Look how many non-white students we have! We are so multicultural!" or saying "Hey, look at us, we have nobel prize winning faculty, a very selective university, and our students are top notch!"? That's essentially what the debate comes down to. Don't get me wrong, some diversity is just fine, but as the saying goes, "too much of anything isn't good for you".
Click to expand...

Joe, I'm not going to do this dance with you. Qualified applicants are qualified no matter what race or ethnicity; the same is true for unqualified applicants. I've now visited about 10 colleges as part of the college search thing, and encountered many students of every persuasion. At some schools, I cannot believe how they could appoint tour guides who reflect so poorly on the school. At other schools, top notch schools, there were frequently students who fit the "diversity" quest that many colleges are on, and they possessed the same incredible energy, accomplishments and communication skills as other students. The point is, if you are more selective, no matter what a student's background or economic status is, you can get a great student. When you are selecting 40% of students from an economic population that is statistically in the lower performing group of students, you are likely going to drag down the academic profile of your college or university. period.
Click to expand...

So you agree with me? :huh:
Click to expand...

No. I'm saying that if SJU wants 40% of their student body to be Pell eligible, then they should be working their butts off to find Pell eligible applicants who also possess excellent academic credentials.
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And again we agree. But the only problem with that is we are not Columbia. The great students from poor backgrounds are extremely rare and Columbia and the like get the first crack. They get the 1st round picks of that pool. We get probably the 3rd or 4th round picks of the same pool. So why not just say screw it, stop going for these populations specifically and just use standards? I'm not understanding why this is such a taboo thing...it's logic is it not?
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I got a Pell grant and studied and I am white.
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Andrew,
Obviously I went to great pains not to be critical of all Pell students, since there are great students who are Pell eligible. I'm curious though - how much in students loans are you carrying, and what do you expect your total student loan debt will be at graduation (if you haven't' graduated already)?
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That is ok. I graduated a long time ok and am debt free.
 
Oh, my.

Rankings And Lists
Least Happy Students :
# 17
Professors Get Low Marks:
# 19
Least Accessible Professors:
# 12
Students Study the Least:
# 11



Honestly I have to say the overwhelming majority of my professors have been fantastic and extremely accessible. These rankings give us a terrible name though. Very disappointed.
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You are in grad school no? When I was in grad school, I went at night, and nearly all my professors were adjuncts who had working experience with the subject matter. It was quite different than my undergraduate experience.

Least Happy Students :# 17. It seems to be a tradition and hallmark of St. John's, reflected in the low % of alumni benefactors.

Professors Get Low Marks:# 19 I was at Boston University today. Their faculty includes Elie Wiesel and two Nobel prize winners. Not only do they all actually teach, but Wiesel does occasional lectures open to all students. If you spend for high caliber faculty, instead of a history of hiring the lowest cost faculty possible, perhaps students would grade them higher.

Least Accessible Professors:# 12: Doing the College tour, I've heard over and over at the schools we've visited how accessible faculty are, including anecdotes that faculty frequently have lunch or coffee with students, invite them to their homes, and meet outside of scheduled office hours. SJU profs should take a cue.


Students Study the Least: 11. Not surprised when 40% of your student population is a floodgate burst of Pell eligible students. SJU seems less selective outside of pharmacy and allied health professions than ever before. Again, just another indicator of a student body that isn't high caliber, and not very motivated.
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Not surprised when 40% of your student population is a floodgate burst of Pell eligible students. SJU seems less selective outside of pharmacy and allied health professions than ever before. Again, just another indicator of a student body that isn't high caliber, and not very motivated

This is exactly what I've implied before and gotten killed over. It's true though. And not to start a diversity debate again but having too much diversity can sacrifice academic reputation and prestige. What's more important, saying "Hey, look at us, we swear we aren't racist! Look how many non-white students we have! We are so multicultural!" or saying "Hey, look at us, we have nobel prize winning faculty, a very selective university, and our students are top notch!"? That's essentially what the debate comes down to. Don't get me wrong, some diversity is just fine, but as the saying goes, "too much of anything isn't good for you".
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Joe, I'm not going to do this dance with you. Qualified applicants are qualified no matter what race or ethnicity; the same is true for unqualified applicants. I've now visited about 10 colleges as part of the college search thing, and encountered many students of every persuasion. At some schools, I cannot believe how they could appoint tour guides who reflect so poorly on the school. At other schools, top notch schools, there were frequently students who fit the "diversity" quest that many colleges are on, and they possessed the same incredible energy, accomplishments and communication skills as other students. The point is, if you are more selective, no matter what a student's background or economic status is, you can get a great student. When you are selecting 40% of students from an economic population that is statistically in the lower performing group of students, you are likely going to drag down the academic profile of your college or university. period.
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So you agree with me? :huh:
Click to expand...

No. I'm saying that if SJU wants 40% of their student body to be Pell eligible, then they should be working their butts off to find Pell eligible applicants who also possess excellent academic credentials.
Click to expand...

And again we agree. But the only problem with that is we are not Columbia. The great students from poor backgrounds are extremely rare and Columbia and the like get the first crack. They get the 1st round picks of that pool. We get probably the 3rd or 4th round picks of the same pool. So why not just say screw it, stop going for these populations specifically and just use standards? I'm not understanding why this is such a taboo thing...it's logic is it not?
Click to expand...

I got a Pell grant and studied and I am white.
Click to expand...

Andrew,
Obviously I went to great pains not to be critical of all Pell students, since there are great students who are Pell eligible. I'm curious though - how much in students loans are you carrying, and what do you expect your total student loan debt will be at graduation (if you haven't' graduated already)?
Click to expand...

That is ok. I graduated a long time ok and am debt free.
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Good for you. Congratulations on being debt free.
 
Can anyone answer this question?: Why is academic prestige/competitiveness taking a backseat to ensuring 40% of the students are Pell eligible? Does SJU get some kind of financial aid incentive by taking in so many of these students?
 
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