What will it take to salvage this program

RedStormNC

RedStormNC

Well-known member
2023 $upporter
Two things...

1) University infusion of major $ to provide the infrastructure and resources needed without any shortcuts and a < 24 month timeline for notable changes to begin to come to life

2) A new head coach 


If only one of the two happen, we will remain mediocre at best.

I don't believe fan/alumni/donation support falls to top of list until University first demonstrates their commitment with action and $ vs their words.





 
 
We need a true home court.

Big East teams come to play us at CA, and are insulted that they didn't get MSG, and take that anger out on us.

They come to MSG, and since they don't get to play there too often, it's an event for them, and they want to play well, where as playing there is old hat for us.

So, two things:

1.  Tear down Carnesecca and Tafner, and used the combined space for a 10,000 seat arena, with practice facilities

or:

2.  Make UBS your full time home.  If we can get a deal like Seton Hall does at Newark, where we can curtain off the upper bowl, that could create a big time home court advantage.  Since Queens and LI make up 90% of the fan base, I think we can be a great draw there.  We would have to do some negotiating about that $40 parking, though.  That is insane.
 
There's one very clear answer, but half the guys on the board don't want to hear it./media/kunena/emoticons/grin.png
 
I think the facilities issue is mildly overblown. Seton Hall has enjoyed a period of sustained success and their facilities are no better than ours. There are plenty of programs better than us right now that don't have unbelievable facilities. Lavin and Mullin got talented players to come here in these conditions. Teams like Davidson, Murray State, San Francisco and Wyoming would be NCAA at large teams if the season ended today.

We need a legit head coach. We have to stop "playing it safe" with a coaching hire. The Pitino thing has been beat to death here now and I'm not saying him specifically, but if there's a guy available with maybe a checkered past but knows how to win, hire him. Stop trying to hire the nice guy whose son you want your daughter to marry and hire the guy that's gonna win even if he's abrasive or has a bit of a shady history. Just need to hire the right guy one time.
 
Mug Costanza post=454570 said:
I think the facilities issue is mildly overblown. Seton Hall has enjoyed a period of sustained success and their facilities are no better than ours. There are plenty of programs better than us right now that don't have unbelievable facilities. Lavin and Mullin got talented players to come here in these conditions. Teams like Davidson, Murray State, San Francisco and Wyoming would be NCAA at large teams if the season ended today.

We need a legit head coach. We have to stop "playing it safe" with a coaching hire. The Pitino thing has been beat to death here now and I'm not saying him specifically, but if there's a guy available with maybe a checkered past but knows how to win, hire him. Stop trying to hire the nice guy whose son you want your daughter to marry and hire the guy that's gonna win even if he's abrasive or has a bit of a shady history. Just need to hire the right guy one time.
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I don't know being abrasive, because I've never been a fan of Bob Knight-style bully coaching, but:

I was against hiring Pitino 3 years ago.  Boy, was I wrong.  I'd happily take him tomorrow.

In fact, if I can get him, Chris Mack, or maybe even Kevin Ollie right away, I don't even let Anderson finish the season.

If I have to "settle" for Mark Schmidt or King Rice after the season, I'd probably do it, as well.

Which brings up another question:

Why are we so adverse to promoting someone from the mid-major ranks?

Our last four coaches have been:

1. A career assistant

2.  Someone out of the game for 7 years (though not completely distant, but not in coaching)

3.  Someone with no experience

and 

4.  Someone who was fired from his previous job for not winning enough.

Villanova got Jay Wright from Hofstra.  Providence got Ed Cooley from Fairfield.  Seton Hall got Kevin Willard from Iona.

While nothing is foolproof, promoting someone from the mid-major ranks generally is the best basis for success, when hiring a coach.  We haven't done that since Jarvis.
 
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SJU61982 post=454577 said:
Mug Costanza post=454570 said:
I think the facilities issue is mildly overblown. Seton Hall has enjoyed a period of sustained success and their facilities are no better than ours. There are plenty of programs better than us right now that don't have unbelievable facilities. Lavin and Mullin got talented players to come here in these conditions. Teams like Davidson, Murray State, San Francisco and Wyoming would be NCAA at large teams if the season ended today.

We need a legit head coach. We have to stop "playing it safe" with a coaching hire. The Pitino thing has been beat to death here now and I'm not saying him specifically, but if there's a guy available with maybe a checkered past but knows how to win, hire him. Stop trying to hire the nice guy whose son you want your daughter to marry and hire the guy that's gonna win even if he's abrasive or has a bit of a shady history. Just need to hire the right guy one time.
Click to expand...
I don't know being abrasive, because I've never been a fan of Bob Knight-style bully coaching, but:

I was against hiring Pitino 3 years ago.  Boy, was I wrong.  I'd happily take him tomorrow.

In fact, if I can get him, Chris Mack, or maybe even Kevin Ollie right away, I don't even let Anderson finish the season.

If I have to "settle" for Mark Schmidt or King Rice after the season, I'd probably do it, as well.

Which brings up another question:

Why are we so adverse to promoting someone from the mid-major ranks?

Our last four coaches have been:

1. A career assistant

2.  Someone out of the game for 7 years (though not completely distant, but not in coaching)

3.  Someone with no experience

and 

4.  Someone who was fired from his previous job for not winning enough.

Villanova got Jay Wright from Hofstra.  Providence got Ed Cooley from Fairfield.  Seton Hall got Kevin Willard from Iona.

While nothing is foolproof, promoting someone from the mid-major ranks generally is the best basis for success, when hiring a coach.  We haven't done that since Jarvis.
 
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I would be in favor of a mid-major promotion. At least we know the guy we hire from a mid-major will be hungry and will get after it unlike Lavin and Mullin. Kyle Smith was at Columbia doing very well with them before heading out west and succeeding at San Francisco and is now breathing life into a Washington State program that was dead for a while. He's the type of guy I'd love to have here.

That said, for every Ed Cooley and Kevin Willard there's a Jim Christian, Danny Manning, Kevin Keatts etc.
 
Looking for a coach who’s

not in over his head: Mahoney, Norm
not nuts: Fran
not ridiculously arrogant: Jarvis
is healthy: Lav
wants to be here: Mullin
 
 
Short term (next couple of years) - retain Posh, Wusu  & Pinzon (along with Wheeler, Stanley & Soriano) for the rest of their college careers, replace assistant coach Cleveland with a legit national recruiter asap, get a difference maker on this year's transfer market who can provide consistent scoring & rebounding (someone like Ryan Hawkins on Creighton would be fine), get a shooter to work with our kids all summer on foul shooting, let one of the assistants develop some half court offense and actually use timeouts constructively.

Long term - assess after the season ends.

 
 
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The money would not be a problem including the buyout which by the way is almost always negotiated down.  You think for 1 second if SJU showed serious interest in hiring Rick that they would not find a way to get it done including tapping the biggest donors.  

You really think if everyone from SJU President to Cragg on down felt that getting Pitino was the best move it would not get done because of money?

Beast of the East post=454672
IF you come up with the $5 milllion clause in his Iona contract for voluntary separation it might happen.
 
Agree wouldn’t be $
Only way program would get coach of that magnitude is if he came with some kind of personal baggage. So ST John’s will never get a coach of that magnitude 
 
fordham96 post=454674 said:
The money would not be a problem including the buyout which by the way is almost always negotiated down.  You think for 1 second if SJU showed serious interest in hiring Rick that they would not find a way to get it done including tapping the biggest donors.  

You really think if everyone from SJU President to Cragg on down felt that getting Pitino was the best move it would not get done because of money?

Beast of the East post=454672
we are sju post=454670 said:
 
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IF you come up with the $5 milllion clause in his Iona contract for voluntary separation it might happen.
Click to expand...
No.

Smart people who have made a lot of money, don't piss it away stupidly.   Buying out a 70 year old coach's $5 million separation is stupid.    I don't think you really have any concept of how much money $5 million is because as a fan you've been polluted by professional sports teams with high revenue sources can pay mediocre professional athletes more.   $5 million is 5000 of our fans ponying up 1,000 each.   That's for starters.   

Here's the paradox, if there ever was an opportunity.   Pitino is at Iona, because single other college would touch him.   If he does generate enough success for another program to want him, he isn't coming here.   
 
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Beast of the East post=454679 said:
fordham96 post=454674 said:
The money would not be a problem including the buyout which by the way is almost always negotiated down.  You think for 1 second if SJU showed serious interest in hiring Rick that they would not find a way to get it done including tapping the biggest donors.  

You really think if everyone from SJU President to Cragg on down felt that getting Pitino was the best move it would not get done because of money?

Beast of the East post=454672
we are sju post=454670 said:
 
Click to expand...
IF you come up with the $5 milllion clause in his Iona contract for voluntary separation it might happen.
Click to expand...
No.

Smart people who have made a lot of money, don't piss it away stupidly.   Buying out a 70 year old coach's $5 million separation is stupid.    I don't think you really have any concept of how much money $5 million is because as a fan you've been polluted by professional sports teams with high revenue sources can pay mediocre professional athletes more.   $5 million is 5000 of our fans ponying up 1,000 each.   That's for starters.   

Here's the paradox, if there ever was an opportunity.   Pitino is at Iona, because single other college would touch him.   If he does generate enough success for another program to want him, he isn't coming here.   
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I will put the same thing another way. The opportunity to hire Pitino was after Mullin. I was in favor of it - but I respect why others were not. SJU didn't do it. Iona did. So now Rick is staying at Iona or going to a much better job than SJU. Of which there are very many.

That ship has sailed, people need to get over it. 
 
We can argue over the main or secondary reasons it will never happen, but it doesn’t matter because it will never happen.
Unfortunately he is the answer to the threads question though
 
One more thing about Rick, Beast said the school can now see data about where the fans who actually attend live. Maybe I'm way off but I don't think many live in Westchester.

SJU is lucky Hofstra didn't hire Pitino.
 
What is their to salvage? Think about this: the basketball team hasn't won an NCAA tournament game or even advanced to the semi finals of the big East tournament since prior to when the majority of current St John's students were born. A sobering fact but one that really helps out into perspective how far this once legendary program has fallen. 
 
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