What’s gone wrong with Shamorie?

[quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=324714][quote="Marillac" post=324703]I think we should drop the injury talk. Kids these days use injury rumors to cover up bad play. It’s always happened...how many times do football players pretend to be hurt after they fumble before they are embarrassed? A lot. The last thing we need is for him to sit out a game so he has an excuse.

He’ll be fine. This is a flawed team who doesn’t play well after wins for whatever reason.[/quote]. You can stick with that , if you want . But, the Player in question , Ponds, has not played as poorly in the last 4 games EVER! You think he’s lost his Mojo suddenly ? Ponds is and has been a Great Player , one of our best ever . You infer he could be faking a injury to explain his play of late , is beyond believeable . He knows he needs to perform at his best if he wants to get to the NBA . Clearly these last games are not his best . Why ? Nobody , no Coach in 3 years had a defense that Ponds could not exploit . . You’re a good fan and a good poster . . Ponds has taken a Physical beating all season . It’s taking it’s toll . That’s my opinion .[/quote]

Was he injured / worn-down against Rutgers? Was he injured against Seton Hall? He's having a bad streak. I feel bad for him and hope the situation rights itself soon, but to say he's injured is just rank speculation.
 
[quote="Jack Williams" post=324706]fwiw Ponds was very confident on social media last night saying he will bounce back I do not think he would be that confident about it if he had some injury hampering him. Also, Shamorie never seems to hide injuries. When his back was sore for those couple of games, he was always holding his back, constantly, and grimacing. I think he is fine.

Honestly, IMO, the Ponds struggles to me are clearly stemming from him losing some confidence in his 3pt shot. When Shamorie is not making his 3s, he instantly becomes way easier to defend.

Matter of fact, after some quick research, our last 3 losses this season, the 2 Providence games and the Duke game, Shamorie didnt hit a 3 in any of them (0-7).

Going even further with this, we are 8-0 this season when Shamorie is .500 percent or better from 3. That includes the sweep of Creighton, road win at GTown, home win against Butler, and the home rout of Marquette.[/quote]

Interesting numbers. Despite the incredible degree of difficulty he's also not finishing around the rim the way he usually does. Just seems a little off. If he makes his first three, or maybe even his first attempt, on Saturday look out.
 
[quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=324714][quote="Marillac" post=324703]I think we should drop the injury talk. Kids these days use injury rumors to cover up bad play. It’s always happened...how many times do football players pretend to be hurt after they fumble before they are embarrassed? A lot. The last thing we need is for him to sit out a game so he has an excuse.

He’ll be fine. This is a flawed team who doesn’t play well after wins for whatever reason.[/quote]. You can stick with that , if you want . But, the Player in question , Ponds, has not played as poorly in the last 4 games EVER! You think he’s lost his Mojo suddenly ? Ponds is and has been a Great Player , one of our best ever . You infer he could be faking a injury to explain his play of late , is beyond believeable . He knows he needs to perform at his best if he wants to get to the NBA . Clearly these last games are not his best . Why ? Nobody , no Coach in 3 years had a defense that Ponds could not exploit . . You’re a good fan and a good poster . . Ponds has taken a Physical beating all season . It’s taking it’s toll . That’s my opinion .[/quote]

He’s played 27 40-minute basketball games. He’s not on the bull riding circuit.

Many of us on this forum played 10 to 12 hour days of basketball in the summers in our teens and 20s.

Players have bad games or stretches. Look at Howard and Booth.
 
[quote="Marillac" post=324721][quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=324714][quote="Marillac" post=324703]I think we should drop the injury talk. Kids these days use injury rumors to cover up bad play. It’s always happened...how many times do football players pretend to be hurt after they fumble before they are embarrassed? A lot. The last thing we need is for him to sit out a game so he has an excuse.

He’ll be fine. This is a flawed team who doesn’t play well after wins for whatever reason.[/quote]. You can stick with that , if you want . But, the Player in question , Ponds, has not played as poorly in the last 4 games EVER! You think he’s lost his Mojo suddenly ? Ponds is and has been a Great Player , one of our best ever . You infer he could be faking a injury to explain his play of late , is beyond believeable . He knows he needs to perform at his best if he wants to get to the NBA . Clearly these last games are not his best . Why ? Nobody , no Coach in 3 years had a defense that Ponds could not exploit . . You’re a good fan and a good poster . . Ponds has taken a Physical beating all season . It’s taking it’s toll . That’s my opinion .[/quote]

He’s played 27 40-minute basketball games. He’s not on the bull riding circuit.

Many of us on this forum played 10 to 12 hour days of basketball in the summers in our teens and 20s.

Players have bad games or stretches. Look at Howard and Booth.[/quote]

Your point is well taken. If he can't do the minutes in a very short college basketball season he'll be useless on the professional level. He's not injured physically........he's injured mentally. His ego is shot. He's not following game plan instructions. Mullin has had to sit him recently to get him to focus.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=324759][quote="Marillac" post=324721][quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=324714][quote="Marillac" post=324703]I think we should drop the injury talk. Kids these days use injury rumors to cover up bad play. It’s always happened...how many times do football players pretend to be hurt after they fumble before they are embarrassed? A lot. The last thing we need is for him to sit out a game so he has an excuse.

He’ll be fine. This is a flawed team who doesn’t play well after wins for whatever reason.[/quote]. You can stick with that , if you want . But, the Player in question , Ponds, has not played as poorly in the last 4 games EVER! You think he’s lost his Mojo suddenly ? Ponds is and has been a Great Player , one of our best ever . You infer he could be faking a injury to explain his play of late , is beyond believeable . He knows he needs to perform at his best if he wants to get to the NBA . Clearly these last games are not his best . Why ? Nobody , no Coach in 3 years had a defense that Ponds could not exploit . . You’re a good fan and a good poster . . Ponds has taken a Physical beating all season . It’s taking it’s toll . That’s my opinion .[/quote]

He’s played 27 40-minute basketball games. He’s not on the bull riding circuit.

Many of us on this forum played 10 to 12 hour days of basketball in the summers in our teens and 20s.

Players have bad games or stretches. Look at Howard and Booth.[/quote]

Your point is well taken. If he can't do the minutes in a very short college basketball season he'll be useless on the professional level. He's not injured physically........he's injured mentally. His ego is shot. He's not following game plan instructions. Mullin has had to sit him recently to get him to focus.[/quote]

Ponds has played every minute of the game once this year, @Marquette.

When Mullin takes him out, it's usually because a media timeout is approaching, and Mullin sees it as an opportunity to give Ponds some extra rest, while not losing too much game time from him.

It has nothing to do with his mental state. Maybe last night did, but if the game were still close, Mullin would have left him in, bad numbers and all.
 
We are all entitled to our opinions on Ponds and his last 4 games .. one isn’t any better than another . And , yes we are all speculating on the drop off in his performance . Neither Mullin or Ponds are going to come out , at this point in the Season and say, “ Yes, he has a nagging injury that isn’t going to get better until the off season , but he’s going to play anyway .” And , we want all our remaining opponents to know he’s not 100 percent . I just think Shamorie is too good a Player , too crafty and skilled to have his season’s performance decline , without some underlying cause . If you notice , he’s not himself at the free throw line either . His percentage is still in the 80’s but , of late , not as consistent . Some of the Announcers have said on his 3 pointers , “He’s not getting his shoulders squared .” And , his drives to the hoop aren’t finishing either , which is rare for him. Ok, it’s all puzzling right now and let’s see what the rest of the Season shows .
 
IMHO it started with the Duke game where I saw more blitzing of the high screen from Duke than I had seen from most teams before and other teams seem to have adopted that. Until we start to make teams consistently pay for doubling the high screen, the difficulties may continue. I also think teams are definitely doubling his drives more effectively so while he is not finishing as much the shots seem to be extremely high levels of difficulty. I'm thinking back to some of the games earlier this season where he would regularly get deep in the paint and pass out to open shooters before starting to look for his own shot. That might be a good approach now but if the shooters he passes to aren't hitting it becomes problematic. Ultimately I think he's a smart player and way too talented for this to continue too long. I'm confident they'll all get it figured out and we'll see the Shamorie we all know and love soon.
 
[quote="matmi03" post=324841]IMHO it started with the Duke game where I saw more blitzing of the high screen from Duke than I had seen from most teams before and other teams seem to have adopted that. Until we start to make teams consistently pay for doubling the high screen, the difficulties may continue. I also think teams are definitely doubling his drives more effectively so while he is not finishing as much the shots seem to be extremely high levels of difficulty. I'm thinking back to some of the games earlier this season where he would regularly get deep in the paint and pass out to open shooters before starting to look for his own shot. That might be a good approach now but if the shooters he passes to aren't hitting it becomes problematic. Ultimately I think he's a smart player and way too talented for this to continue too long. I'm confident they'll all get it figured out and we'll see the Shamorie we all know and love soon.[/quote]

Good analysis. You can definitely see lately teams have made an adjustment on how to cover him. That tends to become an issue with you have other starters who are limited offensively. If Heron or Figgy are off like last game it gets ugly. Simon doesn't attempt threes and Clark pretty much only does, so teams know how to cover them. Trimble rarely looks for his shot and Keita even less, so we're not a complex team to figure out.
 
[quote="Room112" post=324848][quote="matmi03" post=324841]IMHO it started with the Duke game where I saw more blitzing of the high screen from Duke than I had seen from most teams before and other teams seem to have adopted that. Until we start to make teams consistently pay for doubling the high screen, the difficulties may continue. I also think teams are definitely doubling his drives more effectively so while he is not finishing as much the shots seem to be extremely high levels of difficulty. I'm thinking back to some of the games earlier this season where he would regularly get deep in the paint and pass out to open shooters before starting to look for his own shot. That might be a good approach now but if the shooters he passes to aren't hitting it becomes problematic. Ultimately I think he's a smart player and way too talented for this to continue too long. I'm confident they'll all get it figured out and we'll see the Shamorie we all know and love soon.[/quote]

Good analysis. You can definitely see lately teams have made an adjustment on how to cover him. That tends to become an issue with you have other starters who are limited offensively. If Heron or Figgy are off like last game it gets ugly. Simon doesn't attempt threes and Clark pretty much only does, so teams know how to cover them. Trimble rarely looks for his shot and Keita even less, so we're not a complex team to figure out.[/quote]

But again, we had limited options the last 2 and a half years, and they couldn't stop him then. The defense they are playing is not that radical, and he's been doubled in the past.

I think he hurt his elbow at the end of the Butler game, and is not telling anybody (or at least not making it public).
 
[quote="SJU61982" post=324849][quote="Room112" post=324848][quote="matmi03" post=324841]IMHO it started with the Duke game where I saw more blitzing of the high screen from Duke than I had seen from most teams before and other teams seem to have adopted that. Until we start to make teams consistently pay for doubling the high screen, the difficulties may continue. I also think teams are definitely doubling his drives more effectively so while he is not finishing as much the shots seem to be extremely high levels of difficulty. I'm thinking back to some of the games earlier this season where he would regularly get deep in the paint and pass out to open shooters before starting to look for his own shot. That might be a good approach now but if the shooters he passes to aren't hitting it becomes problematic. Ultimately I think he's a smart player and way too talented for this to continue too long. I'm confident they'll all get it figured out and we'll see the Shamorie we all know and love soon.[/quote]

Good analysis. You can definitely see lately teams have made an adjustment on how to cover him. That tends to become an issue with you have other starters who are limited offensively. If Heron or Figgy are off like last game it gets ugly. Simon doesn't attempt threes and Clark pretty much only does, so teams know how to cover them. Trimble rarely looks for his shot and Keita even less, so we're not a complex team to figure out.[/quote]

But again, we had limited options the last 2 and a half years, and they couldn't stop him then. The defense they are playing is not that radical, and he's been doubled in the past.

I think he hurt his elbow at the end of the Butler game, and is not telling anybody (or at least not making it public).[/quote]. Thanks , it might be that Elbow or shoulder was injured . I remember him going down during the Butler game after he was fouled and going to the line , he keep shaking the Arm and Wrist... I thought at the time , “Oh No!” Well , different schools of thought abound and as fans , who knows if injured or not , but something is off in his Game and it’s not between the Ears . He’s already solidified his Place as being among our Best Players in SJU BB history . Let’s hope he and the Team can finish the Season strong ..
 
[quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=324850][quote="SJU61982" post=324849][quote="Room112" post=324848][quote="matmi03" post=324841]IMHO it started with the Duke game where I saw more blitzing of the high screen from Duke than I had seen from most teams before and other teams seem to have adopted that. Until we start to make teams consistently pay for doubling the high screen, the difficulties may continue. I also think teams are definitely doubling his drives more effectively so while he is not finishing as much the shots seem to be extremely high levels of difficulty. I'm thinking back to some of the games earlier this season where he would regularly get deep in the paint and pass out to open shooters before starting to look for his own shot. That might be a good approach now but if the shooters he passes to aren't hitting it becomes problematic. Ultimately I think he's a smart player and way too talented for this to continue too long. I'm confident they'll all get it figured out and we'll see the Shamorie we all know and love soon.[/quote]

Good analysis. You can definitely see lately teams have made an adjustment on how to cover him. That tends to become an issue with you have other starters who are limited offensively. If Heron or Figgy are off like last game it gets ugly. Simon doesn't attempt threes and Clark pretty much only does, so teams know how to cover them. Trimble rarely looks for his shot and Keita even less, so we're not a complex team to figure out.[/quote]

But again, we had limited options the last 2 and a half years, and they couldn't stop him then. The defense they are playing is not that radical, and he's been doubled in the past.

I think he hurt his elbow at the end of the Butler game, and is not telling anybody (or at least not making it public).[/quote]. Thanks , it might be that Elbow or shoulder was injured . I remember him going down during the Butler game after he was fouled and going to the line , he keep shaking the Arm and Wrist... I thought at the time , “Oh No!” Well , different schools of thought abound and as fans , who knows if injured or not , but something is off in his Game and it’s not between the Ears . He’s already solidified his Place as being among our Best Players in SJU BB history . Let’s hope he and the Team can finish the Season strong ..[/quote]

In truth, it is probably a combination of everything we have speculated on in this thread.

I just lean to injury being the main thing, because college players don't lose their ability, just like that.
 
[quote="SJU61982" post=324857][quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=324850][quote="SJU61982" post=324849][quote="Room112" post=324848][quote="matmi03" post=324841]IMHO it started with the Duke game where I saw more blitzing of the high screen from Duke than I had seen from most teams before and other teams seem to have adopted that. Until we start to make teams consistently pay for doubling the high screen, the difficulties may continue. I also think teams are definitely doubling his drives more effectively so while he is not finishing as much the shots seem to be extremely high levels of difficulty. I'm thinking back to some of the games earlier this season where he would regularly get deep in the paint and pass out to open shooters before starting to look for his own shot. That might be a good approach now but if the shooters he passes to aren't hitting it becomes problematic. Ultimately I think he's a smart player and way too talented for this to continue too long. I'm confident they'll all get it figured out and we'll see the Shamorie we all know and love soon.[/quote]

Good analysis. You can definitely see lately teams have made an adjustment on how to cover him. That tends to become an issue with you have other starters who are limited offensively. If Heron or Figgy are off like last game it gets ugly. Simon doesn't attempt threes and Clark pretty much only does, so teams know how to cover them. Trimble rarely looks for his shot and Keita even less, so we're not a complex team to figure out.[/quote]

But again, we had limited options the last 2 and a half years, and they couldn't stop him then. The defense they are playing is not that radical, and he's been doubled in the past.

I think he hurt his elbow at the end of the Butler game, and is not telling anybody (or at least not making it public).[/quote]. Thanks , it might be that Elbow or shoulder was injured . I remember him going down during the Butler game after he was fouled and going to the line , he keep shaking the Arm and Wrist... I thought at the time , “Oh No!” Well , different schools of thought abound and as fans , who knows if injured or not , but something is off in his Game and it’s not between the Ears . He’s already solidified his Place as being among our Best Players in SJU BB history . Let’s hope he and the Team can finish the Season strong ..[/quote]

In truth, it is probably a combination of everything we have speculated on in this thread.

I just lean to injury being the main thing, because college players don't lose their ability, just like that.[/quote]

I think Marillac mentioned it. If not I apologize for mixing it up. But injuries are often a quick crutch used nowadays. Lets remember Shamorie missed a game earlier this year. But then literally was practicing the following day. Who knows whats going on. Maybe its something between the ears.
 
[quote="Moose" post=324870][quote="SJU61982" post=324857][quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=324850][quote="SJU61982" post=324849][quote="Room112" post=324848][quote="matmi03" post=324841]IMHO it started with the Duke game where I saw more blitzing of the high screen from Duke than I had seen from most teams before and other teams seem to have adopted that. Until we start to make teams consistently pay for doubling the high screen, the difficulties may continue. I also think teams are definitely doubling his drives more effectively so while he is not finishing as much the shots seem to be extremely high levels of difficulty. I'm thinking back to some of the games earlier this season where he would regularly get deep in the paint and pass out to open shooters before starting to look for his own shot. That might be a good approach now but if the shooters he passes to aren't hitting it becomes problematic. Ultimately I think he's a smart player and way too talented for this to continue too long. I'm confident they'll all get it figured out and we'll see the Shamorie we all know and love soon.[/quote]

Good analysis. You can definitely see lately teams have made an adjustment on how to cover him. That tends to become an issue with you have other starters who are limited offensively. If Heron or Figgy are off like last game it gets ugly. Simon doesn't attempt threes and Clark pretty much only does, so teams know how to cover them. Trimble rarely looks for his shot and Keita even less, so we're not a complex team to figure out.[/quote]

But again, we had limited options the last 2 and a half years, and they couldn't stop him then. The defense they are playing is not that radical, and he's been doubled in the past.

I think he hurt his elbow at the end of the Butler game, and is not telling anybody (or at least not making it public).[/quote]. Thanks , it might be that Elbow or shoulder was injured . I remember him going down during the Butler game after he was fouled and going to the line , he keep shaking the Arm and Wrist... I thought at the time , “Oh No!” Well , different schools of thought abound and as fans , who knows if injured or not , but something is off in his Game and it’s not between the Ears . He’s already solidified his Place as being among our Best Players in SJU BB history . Let’s hope he and the Team can finish the Season strong ..[/quote]

In truth, it is probably a combination of everything we have speculated on in this thread.

I just lean to injury being the main thing, because college players don't lose their ability, just like that.[/quote]

I think Marillac mentioned it. If not I apologize for mixing it up. But injuries are often a quick crutch used nowadays. Lets remember Shamorie missed a game earlier this year. But then literally was practicing the following day. Who knows whats going on. Maybe its something between the ears.[/quote]

Don't believe it. I think you guys are trying to dig up something.

He missed a game with a back injury. Bad backs can hurt like hell, but sometimes, they go away just as quickly as they come.

Ponds has been the most mentally tough player we've had here for two and a half years. What would happen to change that?
 
SJU61982: Ponds has been the most mentally tough player we've had here for two and a half years. What would happen to change that?

That is what is puzzling. He hasn't been mentally tough or smart as of late. It is definitely not an injury. He is extremely frustrated with his game and it is affecting him.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=324873]SJU61982: Ponds has been the most mentally tough player we've had here for two and a half years. What would happen to change that?

That is what is puzzling. He hasn't been mentally tough or smart as of late. It is definitely not an injury. He is extremely frustrated with his game and it is affecting him.[/quote]

You know for a fact it's not the elbow? Maybe the elbow injury is preventing him from doing things he normally does well, and that's frustrating him? You can't admit to at least the possibility of that being the case?

You're going to counter with the statement that I don't know for a fact that he is hurt, and you would be correct, I don't. I just don't like that because, in all the years we've been following this program, one guy jumped ship with a minor injury (Lovett last year), that it automatically happens to be the case, anytime someone claims to be hurt. We automatically suspect cover-up literally every time it happens, now.

I prefer to give the player the benefit of the doubt.
 
Teams have been picking Ponds up earlier forcing him to concentrate on bringing the ball upcourt and denying him time to see the full floor. He needs to have some picks set in the backcourt to make the defensive player devote some attention elsewhere.
 
[quote="Jack Williams" post=324887]i cant wait until shamorie has 32 points tomorrow and ends this injury speculation[/quote]

Wouldn't end it from me. It would just mean he's getting better. Many times in this game (and other sports), guys have struggled through pain/minor injury, and looked really helpless at times, only to seemingly turn it up out of nowhere, once time starts healing the injury. Many guys have done this without missing games. That does not mean there automatically is something else going on.

Again, most of you are missing my point. We should be hoping that it is a physical issue (a minor injury, not something major), because that would explain a lot of what has been going on here.

I obviously concur with you, that I hope that Ponds has a big game tomorrow.
 
Last edited:
[quote="SJU61982" post=324888][quote="Jack Williams" post=324887]i cant wait until shamorie has 32 points tomorrow and ends this injury speculation[/quote]

Wouldn't end it from me. It would just mean he's getting better. Many times in this game (and other sports), guys have struggled through pain/minor injury, and looked really helpless at times, only to seemingly turn it up out of nowhere, once time starts healing the injury. Many guys have done this without missing games. That does not mean there automatically is something else going on.

Again, most of you are missing my point. We should be hoping that it is a physical issue (a minor injury, not something major), because that would explain a lot of what has been going on here.

I obviously concur with you, that I hope that Ponds has a big game tomorrow.[/quote]

he's not hurt
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top