What’s gone wrong with Shamorie?

Marillac wrote: Teams deny Powell because he’s a SG. Shamorie is a PG so they can’t deny him.

I understand they play different positions in the backcourt and I probably didn't express myself well. My point was teams double Shamorie to force him into being a passer and often double Powell to keep him from getting the ball. But in games I've watched recently Powell when he does get free hit some big shots and doesn't appear to be as frustrated as Shamorie has looked recently. Just my view.
 
[quote="oldschool Redmen" post=324510]last 3 games from our future NBA stud:

Butler 4-12
vs Nova 2-14
@ PC 2-9 with no FTs

8-35, 4-23 in last 2 games.
1st rnd pick huh? lol[/quote]

Why don’t you group together some other 3 game stretches? It’s 3 games! He didn’t play great against nova and last night he played poorly. We went 2-1!
 
Just a side bar comment, yes we have suffered at times with BE officiating, but must say it appears we don’t endear ourselves with officials many times. Ponds putting ball down to ref’s chagrin is just one example. Maybe I am wrong, but we seem to whine all the time about officiating, including staff. Wish they could lower it a knotch to avoid alienating officials and be selective and strategic with protests. Kids don’t get calls the next time after showing up refs and being dramatic. Make your comment and move on may be better approach.
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=324610]Just a side bar comment, yes we have suffered at times with BE officiating, but must say it appears we don’t endear ourselves with officials many times. Ponds putting ball down to ref’s chagrin is just one example. Maybe I am wrong, but we seem to whine all the time about officiating, including staff. Wish they could lower it a knotch to avoid alienating officials and be selective and strategic with protests. Kids don’t get calls the next time after showing up refs and being dramatic. Make your comment and move on may be better approach.[/quote]

The players mouth off a lot often flailing their arms in the air. Yes I know lots of kids do that but we seem to more than most.
The staff complains non stop possessions after the fact.
Its a recipe for disaster.
 
Paultzman wrote: Just a side bar comment, yes we have suffered at times with BE officiating, but must say it appears we don’t endear ourselves with officials many times. Ponds putting ball down to ref’s chagrin is just one example. Maybe I am wrong, but we seem to whine all the time about officiating, including staff. Wish they could lower it a knotch to avoid alienating officials and be selective and strategic with protests. Kids don’t get calls the next time after showing up refs and being dramatic. Make your comment and move on may be better approach.

Moose wrote:
The players mouth off a lot often flailing their arms in the air. Yes I know lots of kids do that but we seem to more than most.
The staff complains non stop possessions after the fact.
Its a recipe for disaster.

Couldn't agree more. there's a time for yelling at refs, but if you do it all the time even the justified diatribes are going to be counterproductive. Also OK for Coach to get into players once in a while when they deserve/need it.
 
As the old saying goes, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. Mullin has become as much of a whiner as Jim Boeheim. He argues almost every call. He needs to learn to pick and choose his battles.

Of course, the players follow suit. Most of them are quite demonstrative when they are whistled for a foul. While the officiating, in general, has not been very good this year, "showing them up" when calls are going against you isn't going to help you get the next one.

The staff and team need to tone it down. The players also need to stop committing so many silly fouls. It seems to me that we have "out fouled" our opponents by a pretty significant margin this year
 
Last edited:
Wow, some of these posts taking shots at Ponds for poor play , lethargy , etc are harsh and frankly, upsetting to many posters here . Shamorie Ponds has NOT suddenly decided to mail in his season . Why would he do that ? He’s fighting to make it to the NBA and knows he needs to show his best game , every game ! And , no Teams haven’t sudddnly learned how to Defense him . It’s not like Cooley is a freaking Gemius . Ed hasn’t exactly outsmarted the other Coaches this year , has he ? I said this before and I say it again . Ponds is not 100 percent or even 50 percent right over the last 3-4 games . Something is wrong physically . His knee or Arm ? It’s affrcted his play . He isn’t blowing by defenders . He is not taking his 3 point shot , except sporadically and his drives to the hoop are not finishing and the shots themselves are not on target . Plus , he is still getting hammered by Defenders and not getting any calls . I believe Mullin and Shamorie are keeping the injury quiet and they both want him on the Court , despite his injury . It’s not a good idea to question the heart or desire of one of the best Players in our Team’s history . A Kid who has shown the stuff of a Lion , ever since putting on Sneakers as a youngster . Shame to even think he’s playing poorly for any reason , except a injury that hasn’t been disclosed . Without him at full speed , our team and it’s weaknesses are being exploited . It’s easy to say he’s not injured but , does anyone , except the Coaches and Players know otherwise ? I doubt it .
 
Ponds is at his best when he is in attack mode, and we haven’t seen it since the last Marquette game.
We are down to a minimum of 6 games left in his SJU career, hope we see it soon. When he is in that Shamorie zone, he is very special.
 
The lack of discipline, especially in dealing with officials, by this team is frustrating. I think the coaches sometimes go too far but it is the permitting the player reactions that has to stop. One of the problems when you "run your team like an NBA program" and lack depth it is a lot harder to sit a player down to instill discipline. I also believe Ponds is hurt. At the free throw line the end of the Butler game he was wincing and flexing his left arm. Has not shot well since. Lastly I will continue to say that this team thinks it is better than it is and does not respect all opponents. That is how you compete well against the top of the conference and poorly against the rest. Conference is too deep for that approach.
 
[quote="Moose" post=324612][quote="Paultzman" post=324610]Just a side bar comment, yes we have suffered at times with BE officiating, but must say it appears we don’t endear ourselves with officials many times. Ponds putting ball down to ref’s chagrin is just one example. Maybe I am wrong, but we seem to whine all the time about officiating, including staff. Wish they could lower it a knotch to avoid alienating officials and be selective and strategic with protests. Kids don’t get calls the next time after showing up refs and being dramatic. Make your comment and move on may be better approach.[/quote]

The players mouth off a lot often flailing their arms in the air. Yes I know lots of kids do that but we seem to more than most.
The staff complains non stop possessions after the fact.
Its a recipe for disaster.[/quote]

Teams develop reputations with officials and you can just tell refs are going into our games expecting it to be incredibly adversarial. That's not the baseline you want to set before anything even happens in the game when emotions are running higher (including officials), especially when you see the same refs over and over.

It was telling that in a game where we had multiple encounters with the refs and had a player ejected, later in the game Cooley was laughing it up with one of the refs.

This starts at the top although it's not about Mullin. I do think he could be more balanced and artful with it, but he's not the only coach who blitzes officials all game. Jay Wright rarely seems to stop.

I think it's more about our players complain more than other teams. Like, a lot more. Seems like almost every play sometimes, multiple guys, and that's going to wear officials out quickly. This isn't the NBA, they don't want to hear it from players constantly. And then it seems to become a slipper slope where our guys get frustrated by (often awful) calls, then start fouling more obviously almost daring the officials to make a call. That's not helping.

After last night Mullin hopefully realizes this is at a borderline breaking point and tells kids to just play and let him worry about the refs. In addition to it likely contributing to us getting less calls than we should, it just seems to have become a distraction on the court.

All this said the officiating has been a disgrace this year, even moreso than usual and it's generally not good to begin with. I don't know how Stu Jackson can sit courtside at that game last night and be much of anything other than embarrassed with that performance from refs the league is paying. Unfortunately I doubt that is the case, and related to a group that has a notorious lack of accountability (officials) the bigger concern might be lack of accountability an action from the conference. The buck stops with them on this issue.
 
From NY Post article

So Mullin, who said Ponds is physically fine — although he had a lengthy pause before answering “no” about a possible injury — said St. John’s has only one path now
 
Regarding Ponds I wouldn't worry too much unless he is injured. Even great players have peaks and valleys and it's been all of 3 games.

On critical road trip through Creighton and Marq he got 26 on 10-17 (35 mins) and 28 on 9/19 (40 minutes).

Last night was the first time since December that he played less than 35 minutes. I really didn't understand playing him 35 in a 30 point loss to Duke and 38 in a 14 point loss to Prov. May not be coincidence that going 40/38/41 in that Marq through Butler stretch is kind of where this less energetic play began. You can't expect those sort of minute totals in an 8 day stretch in early February not to take a toll.

Was glad to see Ponds finally get a breather in the 2nd half last night. Would not be surprised to see 30 on Saturday in a W.
 
[quote="SJUNC" post=324649]The lack of discipline, especially in dealing with officials, by this team is frustrating. I think the coaches sometimes go too far but it is the permitting the player reactions that has to stop. One of the problems when you "run your team like an NBA program" and lack depth it is a lot harder to sit a player down to instill discipline. I also believe Ponds is hurt. At the free throw line the end of the Butler game he was wincing and flexing his left arm. Has not shot well since. Lastly I will continue to say that this team thinks it is better than it is and does not respect all opponents. That is how you compete well against the top of the conference and poorly against the rest. Conference is too deep for that approach.[/quote]

Agree, I’ll never like or encourage players to talk/complain to refs, I think it’s gross, uncalled for, and does way more harm than good. Some guys (our Senior who was ejected) make themselves look foolish complaining about calls that are so obviously fouls. With that said.. good god the refs across the board have been so bad it really is frustrating. It’s a problem in all of college basketball. I don’t have an issue with Mullin wanting to get on the refs but his approach does seem counterproductive at times.
 
Last edited:
[quote="Paultzman" post=324651]From NY Post article

So Mullin, who said Ponds is physically fine — although he had a lengthy pause before answering “no” about a possible injury — said St. John’s has only one path now[/quote]. Mullin’s pause about a Ponds injury , speaks volumes . How is he suppose to Answer ? Yes , Ponds has a torn this or a Shoulder separation that will need surgery , after the Season or , anything . In College BB I don’t think it’s required to publicize a injury unless a player is going to miss a game as a result . It’s not like NFL FB . Ponds is playing hurt like the Warrior he is and trying g to help his team . And , in doing so , he knows he might be risking a NBA career .as his play has been hampered . Think about it . Shamorie has not suddenly lost his Game , without a explanation that makes sense . Clearly , there is a issue and reasons why it hasn’t come out in the public forum .And , thinking that opposing Coaches have devised game plans to control his play are a stretch . In 3 Seasons , more than a few HOF Coaches, didn’t do that by any means . Shamorie is not that Shamorie right now . And , having a slump is not a credible comment . Not for him . He’s too good a player .
 
Last edited:
They double team him at 3 point line and I think he should throw up a shot and get fouled
 
I think we should drop the injury talk. Kids these days use injury rumors to cover up bad play. It’s always happened...how many times do football players pretend to be hurt after they fumble before they are embarrassed? A lot. The last thing we need is for him to sit out a game so he has an excuse.

He’ll be fine. This is a flawed team who doesn’t play well after wins for whatever reason.
 
fwiw Ponds was very confident on social media last night saying he will bounce back I do not think he would be that confident about it if he had some injury hampering him. Also, Shamorie never seems to hide injuries. When his back was sore for those couple of games, he was always holding his back, constantly, and grimacing. I think he is fine.

Honestly, IMO, the Ponds struggles to me are clearly stemming from him losing some confidence in his 3pt shot. When Shamorie is not making his 3s, he instantly becomes way easier to defend.

Matter of fact, after some quick research, our last 3 losses this season, the 2 Providence games and the Duke game, Shamorie didnt hit a 3 in any of them (0-7).

Going even further with this, we are 8-0 this season when Shamorie is .500 percent or better from 3. That includes the sweep of Creighton, road win at GTown, home win against Butler, and the home rout of Marquette.
 
If he's hurt I hope he heals,

But if he can't hit 3's don't take them at the rate he's done it and miss most.

Playing hurt wothout producing doesn't help him (recovery or draft stock wise) or the team
 
[quote="Marillac" post=324703]I think we should drop the injury talk. Kids these days use injury rumors to cover up bad play. It’s always happened...how many times do football players pretend to be hurt after they fumble before they are embarrassed? A lot. The last thing we need is for him to sit out a game so he has an excuse.

He’ll be fine. This is a flawed team who doesn’t play well after wins for whatever reason.[/quote]. You can stick with that , if you want . But, the Player in question , Ponds, has not played as poorly in the last 4 games EVER! You think he’s lost his Mojo suddenly ? Ponds is and has been a Great Player , one of our best ever . You infer he could be faking a injury to explain his play of late , is beyond believeable . He knows he needs to perform at his best if he wants to get to the NBA . Clearly these last games are not his best . Why ? Nobody , no Coach in 3 years had a defense that Ponds could not exploit . . You’re a good fan and a good poster . . Ponds has taken a Physical beating all season . It’s taking it’s toll . That’s my opinion .
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top