Welcome John McGriff

[quote="Class of 72" post=347737][quote="Monte" post=347734][quote="Class of 72" post=347731][quote="simplyred" post=347608][quote="IDRAFT" post=347588]There are two place in life where size always matters and one of them is on a basketball court.[/quote]
Less so if you’re a cunning linguist[/quote]

I watched Calvin Murphy torch us when he played for Niagara. He was cunning, quick and a ball hawk. He was also 5'9.
He was very cunning off the court also as he fathered 14 children with 9 different women.

Hopefully McGriff will be useful bringing the ball up against the press or when playing 40 minutes of hell.[/quote]

Calvin Murphy was a 2X High School All-American. Mr. McGriff is a top 300 ranked player. Other than their height., at the same point in their respective careers, there's no comparison.[/quote]

Muggsy Bogues was 5'3 and led the ACC in assists. He wasn't a 2× HS All-American. If he is quick up court and can pass he is already a better option than Trimble was. Getting the ball up court was going to be a problem with the guards left over from Matt's players.[/quote]

It’s obvious in this era of 6’7” PGs that McGriff is under-rated because of his size in ways Murphy and Bogues were not.
The kid has grit and skills, has great court presence, and can finish in traffic.
Mike and TJC will groom him.
We’re lucky to have him.
 
[quote="richard A Steinfeld" post=347741]The probability is he is going to grow. Who knows how tall he will be as a junior.[/quote]

Could......but much more likely he is done growing.
 
[quote="Logen" post=347733][quote="Beast of the East" post=347722][quote="Logen" post=347719][quote="Beast of the East" post=347634][quote="Logen" post=347616][quote="Beast of the East" post=347580][quote="Logen" post=347575][quote="Beast of the East" post=347550][quote="Joe Donnelly" post=347528]Have you watched this kid? It’s pretty obvious this kid and his handle are lightning quick. Plus, every coach or recruiter pretty much says the same thing about him. I’ll take a pit bull at PG who has a sick handle & takes pride in his defense any day on my team. IMO, couldn’t ask for much better considering our position this late in the recruiting process.

Welcome aboard Mr. McGriff![/quote]

I watched the video. Quickness is relative to the ability and agility of your opposition. If he is that much quicker than opponents at the college level he can partially offset height disadvantage. Pitbull or not, guarding a 6'4" guard or caught in a switch against a 6'7" forward will create problems, especially in a smaller lineup that we figure to have where he won't get much support from bigs. Basketball is very unforgiving when it comes to height, so on offense he would have to contribute a lot to earn playing time, or else he is a stopgap measure on a thin roster. No question quickness is the second best physical asset to have after height, but at 5'9", to create enough space to get off shots, or even passes that won't be deflected, you have to be that much quicker than opponents. I hope he has the goods.[/quote]

I am with Mase on this. Height is largely, not completely, irrelevant if you can play. Height is also no advantage if you can’t.[/quote]

Yep. That's why North Carolina had their smallest player jump center against Wilt in the NCAA Finals back in 1933.[/quote]

Huh????? I think you have a smudge in your almanac........1933????[/quote]

Haha.. If we can't joke around a little.

Look, everytime McGriff has stepped on to a court where people don't know him, every time he has tried out, he has had to disprove doubters. I'm sure if he if worth anything, he is tough enough to disprove any doubts that he belongs, and I sure would like to be proven mistaken.

Good luck to him.. Welcome McGriff![/quote]

Right.....whatever[/quote]

Yes a 62 year old Chamberlain led the 72 Lakers to a 33 game winning streak, playing point guard.

Actually one season Chamberlain was so pissed because idiots said that he only scored because he was so big but couldn't play that he scored less and led the NBA in assists.

Roberto Clemente was denied a 100,000 contract by the pirates because he didn't hit homeruns, so next season he swung for the fences and hit 28 home runs, hitting "only" .317.

But a 5 ft 9 guy never led the NBA in blocked shots or rebounds. It's a big man's game.[/quote]

Yeah, really good point, because Wilt Chamberlain completely changed his game for one season to prove a point because he had thin skin, all short guys suck. Better yet, maybe we should pass a law making it a crime for them to play basketball, or God forbid, actually become GOOD at it. Off with their heads, I say. Keep this thread alive, please, funnier than your prosecution of Repole.[/quote]

Lol. You are one cranky old man.
 
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[quote="rawdognyc" post=347727][quote="Beast of the East" post=347722][quote="Logen" post=347719][quote="Beast of the East" post=347634][quote="Logen" post=347616][quote="Beast of the East" post=347580][quote="Logen" post=347575][quote="Beast of the East" post=347550][quote="Joe Donnelly" post=347528]Have you watched this kid? It’s pretty obvious this kid and his handle are lightning quick. Plus, every coach or recruiter pretty much says the same thing about him. I’ll take a pit bull at PG who has a sick handle & takes pride in his defense any day on my team. IMO, couldn’t ask for much better considering our position this late in the recruiting process.

Welcome aboard Mr. McGriff![/quote]

I watched the video. Quickness is relative to the ability and agility of your opposition. If he is that much quicker than opponents at the college level he can partially offset height disadvantage. Pitbull or not, guarding a 6'4" guard or caught in a switch against a 6'7" forward will create problems, especially in a smaller lineup that we figure to have where he won't get much support from bigs. Basketball is very unforgiving when it comes to height, so on offense he would have to contribute a lot to earn playing time, or else he is a stopgap measure on a thin roster. No question quickness is the second best physical asset to have after height, but at 5'9", to create enough space to get off shots, or even passes that won't be deflected, you have to be that much quicker than opponents. I hope he has the goods.[/quote]

I am with Mase on this. Height is largely, not completely, irrelevant if you can play. Height is also no advantage if you can’t.[/quote]

Yep. That's why North Carolina had their smallest player jump center against Wilt in the NCAA Finals back in 1933.[/quote]

Huh????? I think you have a smudge in your almanac........1933????[/quote]

Haha.. If we can't joke around a little.

Look, everytime McGriff has stepped on to a court where people don't know him, every time he has tried out, he has had to disprove doubters. I'm sure if he if worth anything, he is tough enough to disprove any doubts that he belongs, and I sure would like to be proven mistaken.

Good luck to him.. Welcome McGriff![/quote]

Right.....whatever[/quote]

Yes a 62 year old Chamberlain led the 72 Lakers to a 33 game winning streak, playing point guard.

Actually one season Chamberlain was so pissed because idiots said that he only scored because he was so big but couldn't play that he scored less and led the NBA in assists.

Roberto Clemente was denied a 100,000 contract by the pirates because he didn't hit homeruns, so next season he swung for the fences and hit 28 home runs, hitting "only" .317.

But a 5 ft 9 guy never led the NBA in blocked shots or rebounds. It's a big man's game.[/quote]

If Matt A and Mullin had recruited and signed him, me thinks you'd be whistling a different tune. I often respect your posts throughout the years, however it seems like you're still a bit salty over the coaching change. Just my opinion[/quote]

Actually, two things: 1. My commentary has to do with tempering enthusiasm that is over the top for any recruit. Highlight video is just that, and in basketball has a lot to do with the level of your competition.
2. Mullin got fired or quit, and either way, is gone. I never objected to objective criticism based on results. I'm not angry at all that we've made a change.
 
[quote="REDggie" post=347730]He will always be the first commit to CMA and for that I will always remember him. Hoping he proves the doubters wrong and the edge he has had to carry his entire career due to his height, is what propels him to be a 4 year fan favorite (i.e. Malik Boothe)[/quote]

Can you remember Jarvis' first recruit? Norms? Lavins? Mahoney's? Anyone's?
 
[quote="IDRAFT" post=347588]There are two place in life where size always matters and one of them is on a basketball court.[/quote]
That’s a ridiculous statement. Ever hear of Michael Adams, Dana Barros, Sherm Douglass, Calvin Murphy, Bogues, etc. Plus this kid has a 40 something vertical, good elevation on his j & dunks the balk with ease. Not saying he is the second coming but he is going to have a lot of people eating crow on this board imo. Let’s see those same 6’4 guys keep up with him on the fast break if you want to deal with hypotheticals.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=347752][quote="REDggie" post=347730]He will always be the first commit to CMA and for that I will always remember him. Hoping he proves the doubters wrong and the edge he has had to carry his entire career due to his height, is what propels him to be a 4 year fan favorite (i.e. Malik Boothe)[/quote]

Can you remember Jarvis' first recruit? Norms? Lavins? Mahoney's? Anyone's?[/quote]

I'm going with Polee for Lavin.

Eugene for Norm.
 
[quote="Joe Donnelly" post=347753][quote="IDRAFT" post=347588]There are two place in life where size always matters and one of them is on a basketball court.[/quote]
That’s a ridiculous statement. Ever hear of Michael Adams, Dana Barros, Sherm Douglass, Calvin Murphy, Bogues, etc. Plus this kid has a 40 something vertical, good elevation on his j & dunks the balk with ease. Not saying he is the second coming but he is going to have a lot of people eating crow on this board imo. Let’s see those same 6’4 guys keep up with him on the fast break if you want to deal with hypotheticals.[/quote]

We're talking about a 5'9" kid who is ranked just inside the top 300. While some 5'9" kids do make it at this level(although your examples are from quite some time ago), and while some top 300 kids do as well, I would say that the odds are against them. Lets hope Mr. McGriff is one of those anomalies.
 
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[quote="L J S A" post=347754][quote="Beast of the East" post=347752][quote="REDggie" post=347730]He will always be the first commit to CMA and for that I will always remember him. Hoping he proves the doubters wrong and the edge he has had to carry his entire career due to his height, is what propels him to be a 4 year fan favorite (i.e. Malik Boothe)[/quote]

Can you remember Jarvis' first recruit? Norms? Lavins? Mahoney's? Anyone's?[/quote]

I'm going with Polee for Lavin.

Eugene for Norm.[/quote]

If that's true and you are right without checking you are either by new idol, or that's pathetic. :)
 
[quote="Joe Donnelly" post=347753][quote="IDRAFT" post=347588]There are two place in life where size always matters and one of them is on a basketball court.[/quote]
That’s a ridiculous statement. Ever hear of Michael Adams, Dana Barros, Sherm Douglass, Calvin Murphy, Bogues, etc. Plus this kid has a 40 something vertical, good elevation on his j & dunks the balk with ease. Not saying he is the second coming but he is going to have a lot of people eating crow on this board imo. Let’s see those same 6’4 guys keep up with him on the fast break if you want to deal with hypotheticals.[/quote]

Those are some good names, but I'd go with the pest, Spud Webb
He could dunk at 5'7 with a 42 vertical in college, nba 46

If he could be 75% of Spud, i'll take it.

 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=347750][quote="Logen" post=347733][quote="Beast of the East" post=347722][quote="Logen" post=347719][quote="Beast of the East" post=347634][quote="Logen" post=347616][quote="Beast of the East" post=347580][quote="Logen" post=347575][quote="Beast of the East" post=347550][quote="Joe Donnelly" post=347528]Have you watched this kid? It’s pretty obvious this kid and his handle are lightning quick. Plus, every coach or recruiter pretty much says the same thing about him. I’ll take a pit bull at PG who has a sick handle & takes pride in his defense any day on my team. IMO, couldn’t ask for much better considering our position this late in the recruiting process.

Welcome aboard Mr. McGriff![/quote]

I watched the video. Quickness is relative to the ability and agility of your opposition. If he is that much quicker than opponents at the college level he can partially offset height disadvantage. Pitbull or not, guarding a 6'4" guard or caught in a switch against a 6'7" forward will create problems, especially in a smaller lineup that we figure to have where he won't get much support from bigs. Basketball is very unforgiving when it comes to height, so on offense he would have to contribute a lot to earn playing time, or else he is a stopgap measure on a thin roster. No question quickness is the second best physical asset to have after height, but at 5'9", to create enough space to get off shots, or even passes that won't be deflected, you have to be that much quicker than opponents. I hope he has the goods.[/quote]

I am with Mase on this. Height is largely, not completely, irrelevant if you can play. Height is also no advantage if you can’t.[/quote]

Yep. That's why North Carolina had their smallest player jump center against Wilt in the NCAA Finals back in 1933.[/quote]

Huh????? I think you have a smudge in your almanac........1933????[/quote]

Haha.. If we can't joke around a little.

Look, everytime McGriff has stepped on to a court where people don't know him, every time he has tried out, he has had to disprove doubters. I'm sure if he if worth anything, he is tough enough to disprove any doubts that he belongs, and I sure would like to be proven mistaken.

Good luck to him.. Welcome McGriff![/quote]

Right.....whatever[/quote]

Yes a 62 year old Chamberlain led the 72 Lakers to a 33 game winning streak, playing point guard.

Actually one season Chamberlain was so pissed because idiots said that he only scored because he was so big but couldn't play that he scored less and led the NBA in assists.

Roberto Clemente was denied a 100,000 contract by the pirates because he didn't hit homeruns, so next season he swung for the fences and hit 28 home runs, hitting "only" .317.

But a 5 ft 9 guy never led the NBA in blocked shots or rebounds. It's a big man's game.[/quote]

Yeah, really good point, because Wilt Chamberlain completely changed his game for one season to prove a point because he had thin skin, all short guys suck. Better yet, maybe we should pass a law making it a crime for them to play basketball, or God forbid, actually become GOOD at it. Off with their heads, I say. Keep this thread alive, please, funnier than your prosecution of Repole.[/quote]

Lol. You are one cranky old man.[/quote]

That I am, so do me and the board a favor and don’t reply to my posts busting my chops with your sophomoric logic.
 
My knowledge of Mcgriff is second/third hand - limited to the videos and what others on this board are saying. What I can definitively say is “speed kills” and we haven’t had a PG capable of breaking down a defense in a while. What I hope for is the same impact that Maurice Watson (Minus the baggage) had on Creighton. He transformed that team until he got hur5 and then found trouble off the court.

Sure, he will challenged on defense. But, that’s where filling roster with complimentary pieces, like a shot blocker (ala Tariq), comes into play. Makes up for deficiencies in other areas. And, likewise, a breakdown PG makes an athletic big that much more dangerous.

End of the day...we’ll see...but the kid comes with some good praise from others...toughness in particular
 
[quote="Joe Donnelly" post=347753][quote="IDRAFT" post=347588]There are two place in life where size always matters and one of them is on a basketball court.[/quote]
That’s a ridiculous statement. Ever hear of Michael Adams, Dana Barros, Sherm Douglass, Calvin Murphy, Bogues, etc. Plus this kid has a 40 something vertical, good elevation on his j & dunks the balk with ease. Not saying he is the second coming but he is going to have a lot of people eating crow on this board imo. Let’s see those same 6’4 guys keep up with him on the fast break if you want to deal with hypotheticals.[/quote]

It was a joke, but please, it’s also true. Picking out outliers from the thousands and thousands of people who have played major college basketball over the years doesn’t make it any less so. I hope the kid becomes great like some of the names you mentioned but the odds are against him. If you don’t realize that then you don’t understand basketball.
 
I look at McGriff as a four year type player. Now I’ve never seen him play but it’s not like he is a 5 star sure thing. I am ok with that. We have been lacking this type of approach for a long time. Too often filling potholes every year or at least trying to.
Now with or without LJ or Heron we are looking at a very long season. I don’t see any way around it. It is tough because we see a lot of those years here. Next year will be about establishing the MA vision for the Program. These kids will be the first bricks in the wall, I hope. I also hope we don't reach for players that might fill immediate holes but block future options. Just have to wait and see.
 
Man oh man, really!!! You recruit players, as Mase said, all other things being equal, size matters, but first and foremost, can a player play? We are in dire straits with a coaching change and a desperate need for players for the second time in five years. Anderson and Cleveland, I believe, have a track record behind them, so I assume the kid can play a little. IMO, their history earns them my respect until proven different, and I don’t see that happening; they ain’t Lavin or Mullin. They quickly filled the most pressing need we had, namely getting someone who can bring the ball upcourt. I will judge the player when he gets here, not by a yardstick but I guess some on here were expecting miracles and will settle for nothing less.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=347757]No one is saying a 5 9 kid can't make it. Of course he can. But pound for pound he's got to be that much better than bigger kids.[/quote]

“...for a point guard it’s only the last four inches that count, from their eyebrows up...”
-Tom Konchalski
 
Why worry about his height? He's going to be 5'11 when the roster is printed. Hate to mention his name but how tall was Marcus LoVett? John is Johnny! That is all that matters.

Btw, save some of you time researching. ML was listed 5'10 when we signed him. Throughout his short career at St. John's he was 6'0.
 
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[quote="Class of 72" post=347800]Why worry about his height? He's going to be 5'11 when the roster is printed. Hate to mention his name but how tall was Marcus LoVett? John is Johnny! That is all that matters.

Btw, save some of you time researching. ML was listed 5'10 when we signed him. Throughout his short career at St. John's he was 6'0.[/quote]

Good point.
 
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