Beast, your right about me saying the staff been taking 2 years off when I'm not the guy paying them. When I heard it said the plan was to go after players in the class of 2015 I wondered whats up with that. What about now. Who on the team now that belongs here have we gotten in the last couple of years? We need the starters to go 40, and not a guy on the bench can play. Can I possibly feel this staff really busts hump to bring in the right guys? Any posts knocking coach in the past have made me cringe. Now I see where guys gatta play the whole game and nothing on the way for next year. Hows the program looking? I shouldn't be talking about the work ethics of others. I'll stop.
We Need Rysheed
- Thread starter zackmorris
- Start date
redfan259999888
Active member
Will we be ranked tomorrow?
Moral victories may be the only victories this team will have going forward. You are correct we were ranked 15th last week but I ask you in all sincerity do you believe we will be ranked this week or ever again this season ? We lost twice in 4 days that may drop us 10 spots and with a tough schedule and Duke ahead of us I pray for the sake of the players and long suffering fans that it does not get ugly.
Ummmmm, no.
ZanMan
Well-known member
Even if we drop to 25, how long do you see us staying there? Nova and PC (away) this week. You are seeing victories there?
Your positive attitude is nice, but I don't think you are looking at the big picture here.
We will not be a ranked team for long, we will not win more games than we lose in the BE without #23.
If I'm wrong, I will be more than happy to be so. It will be my pleasure to be wrong on this. I'm just being realistic.
Class of 72
Active member
Two teams going in opposite directions. Seton Hall beat two top 20 teams with their star player missing. St.John's lost to two unranked teams. St. John's lost its highest rated player and will never be ranked again. Lavin has no bench and, by the look of his use of the bench against Butler, has no clue who to play with Jordan gone. I expected tired legs when Jordan was on the team and now blow outs are a possibility.
The current state of the team is not purely a "we need Rysheed" problem.
By my count, in the Butler game (which I attended), we got a total of zero points from the bench. Zero, zip, nada.
So if Jordan played then perhaps we would have gotten 6 or 8 points from the bench, which may well have turned the outcome of that game.
But realistically, you cannot expect to win games when you are getting production from 5 players. Or even 6 players, especially when the result of playing your 6th player is that you are often playing a 5 guard lineup.
The result is what happened in the Seton Hall game and again in the Butler game. You hit a point in the middle of the second half when it is time to press - which is what our team is designed to do - and everyone on the floor is too exhausted to execute it.
Yes adding Jordan to the team helps because it gives you a 6th player, and right now we don't even have that. But the larger problem is that we don't have a 7th player or an 8th player. Especially up front we have zero depth (no I'm not counting the 2 minutes per game that you get from Joey D).
There are a few different ways to look at it. You could say that the guys on the bench aren't good enough to play. Or you could say that the coach can't figure out what to do with them to make them useful. Or you can say that we ran into bad luck having 2 players declared ineligible.
IMHO whichever one you pick the indictment is pretty clear. If the guys on the bench aren't any good, why were they recruited? If they have some ability, then whose job is it to make at least enough use of them to prevent the starters from being gassed in the second half? And when you have player issues (and usually multiple player issues) every single year, at what point does it no longer count as "bad luck"?
In any event, I am willing to go out on a limb and predict that we are not going to win many games getting zero production from anyone other than the Fab 5.
By my count, in the Butler game (which I attended), we got a total of zero points from the bench. Zero, zip, nada.
So if Jordan played then perhaps we would have gotten 6 or 8 points from the bench, which may well have turned the outcome of that game.
But realistically, you cannot expect to win games when you are getting production from 5 players. Or even 6 players, especially when the result of playing your 6th player is that you are often playing a 5 guard lineup.
The result is what happened in the Seton Hall game and again in the Butler game. You hit a point in the middle of the second half when it is time to press - which is what our team is designed to do - and everyone on the floor is too exhausted to execute it.
Yes adding Jordan to the team helps because it gives you a 6th player, and right now we don't even have that. But the larger problem is that we don't have a 7th player or an 8th player. Especially up front we have zero depth (no I'm not counting the 2 minutes per game that you get from Joey D).
There are a few different ways to look at it. You could say that the guys on the bench aren't good enough to play. Or you could say that the coach can't figure out what to do with them to make them useful. Or you can say that we ran into bad luck having 2 players declared ineligible.
IMHO whichever one you pick the indictment is pretty clear. If the guys on the bench aren't any good, why were they recruited? If they have some ability, then whose job is it to make at least enough use of them to prevent the starters from being gassed in the second half? And when you have player issues (and usually multiple player issues) every single year, at what point does it no longer count as "bad luck"?
In any event, I am willing to go out on a limb and predict that we are not going to win many games getting zero production from anyone other than the Fab 5.
beast of the east
Active member
Even with Jordan, we needed a bench player or two to emerge. It looks like JDR is able to provide some important minutes at backup center. Prior to this debacle, over the long haul of a season we still needed at least one and maybe two other players who could log productive minutes - maybe Amar, Myles Stewart of CJ. Including JDR, you can't slide any of those 4 into the 6th man role, and expect the kind of productivity that will endure over a BE season. Without a Jordan return, the season is basically wrecked, and with him the outcome still remains to be seen.
Queens Quiet Skies
Member
Sheed coming off the bench brings 14.5 points, rounding up to 15 points if you want a whole number.
For a team that scores only 70 per game, that's 21% of our points most nights. He is big part of the offense, bench or not. We would be at least 1-1 in the Big East with him in there.
For a team that scores only 70 per game, that's 21% of our points most nights. He is big part of the offense, bench or not. We would be at least 1-1 in the Big East with him in there.
beast of the east
Active member
We certainly needed another usable body vs. Butler, but 14 points or not, he hasn't played well. I wouldn't have penciled in a win merely by his presence, but we could have used him for sure.
Absolutely Beast! Too many folks rationalize everything in SJU's favor. Butler simply beat us in a close one. To posit notion that with Jordan, who was playing so so at best, we would have won or Butler got lucky is senseless. Butler is a well coached team that played a tough away game & won. Accept it & move on. As sensible posters have noted, our margin of error is slim & any loss should not shock us. Well now RJ is back. Go out and prove something by beating the best team in BE at MSG. Please no excuses if we lose about distractions, Rysheed being down or rusty, etc. Win a game you must to regain our initial momentum. Lose & accept this roster challenged team has a tall task ahead of them.
You're right in principal, expect Butler got a total of 0 points from their bench on Saturday as well.
It was also the rare close game that didn't come down to free throw shooting. Butler was 14-20 from the line, we were 15-19.
An all-around strange game statistically.
When rumors were floating around a few weeks ago I said we needed him. Not only is he a good player than has potential to be an elite player, but we are so thin it's impossible to win enough games without him.
Hope to see him tomorrow. Win or lose, I want to face Nova with our best team on the floor.
Hope to see him tomorrow. Win or lose, I want to face Nova with our best team on the floor.