Undersized ... Centers …. Player comparisons past and present

SLYFOXX1968 said:
I recall seeing Sonny listed as 6’8” on some Roster Stats , possibly in his Senior year ? Maybe he grew.
I don’t recall what height he was listed at when the Pistons drafted him as the 4 th pick in the First Round .
Those of us who saw Sonny play against usually taller players were taken with his ability to rebound and score inside . As others have noted , he could get up there with his leaping ability .
Sonny had a complete game . He could handle the ball well and could shoot too .
He also was rail thin , often listed as 205 .. Which might have been generous .
All American 2 nd Team , I think in his Senior year and as stated , picked 4 th in the NBA draft .
Certainly one of our all time legendary players .
Click to expand...
Those are my memories of Sonny Dove as well. I think one of his nicknames was "vacuum cleaner" because of his ability to "sweep" the boards. Here are some interesting stats according to Wikipedia while at St. John's:

"As of 2008, when Dove was selected posthumously for the "All-Century Team" of St. John's, he was one of only two players in the university basketball program's history with more than 1,000 career points (he ranked 10th with 1,576 points) and more than 1,000 career rebounds (he ranked 2nd with 1,036)."
 
CBA69 said:
Those are my memories of Sonny Dove as well. I think one of his nicknames was "vacuum cleaner" because of his ability to "sweep" the boards. Here are some interesting stats according to Wikipedia while at St. John's:

"As of 2008, when Dove was selected posthumously for the "All-Century Team" of St. John's, he was one of only two players in the university basketball program's history with more than 1,000 career points (he ranked 10th with 1,576 points) and more than 1,000 career rebounds (he ranked 2nd with 1,036)."
Click to expand...
And that's only being eligible to play three years because freshmen weren't eligible then - makes it that much more impressive.
 
NCJohnnie said:
Sly, you're thinking of Oliver Darden as the third Michigan star. Greg Kelser was Michigan State in the late 1970s, played with the Magic Man. I had to look up Darden myself to refresh my memory, did but recall that Kelser was Magic's running buddy in college.
Click to expand...
NCJohnnie, feel like I'm reading my alter ego's posts whenever I read yours -- Sonny is my all-time fave as well; sounds like we were both frosh in Sonny's soph year; loved that team (was lucky to spend some time reminiscing with Bobby Mac and Jerry Houston at the Joe Lapchick unveiling a few years back); that Michigan game is my favorite win for a number of reasons, including Coach's Lapchick's final game; and a lot more. (By the way, the captain of that UM team was Larry Tregoning, who was "only" 6'-5" but, like bruisers Cazzie Russell, Bill Buntin and Oliver Darden, he too was built like a Big 10 linebacker.)

Note: Autocorrect changed my original "Houston" to "House." Corrected it.
 
Last edited:
NCJohnnie said:
I'm right there with you LMF. In my case, my top 5 probably Sonny Dove, Justin Simon, Lavor Postell, DJ Kennedy, John Warren.
Click to expand...
Would probably be Marcus Hatten and Boo Harvey for me. Lavor is up there though, as are Minlend and Anthony Glover.

On any given day I could be persuaded to throw in Matt Brust, Donald Emmanuel, or Billy Singleton - I do love the lunchpail guys who made the most of themselves.

Malik Sealy is in a category all by himself, it felt like a privilege to watch him play.

Sonny Dove and John Warren were before my time.
 
lawmanfan said:
Would probably be Marcus Hatten and Boo Harvey for me. Lavor is up there though, as are Minlend and Anthony Glover.

On any given day I could be persuaded to throw in Matt Brust, Donald Emmanuel, or Billy Singleton - I do love the lunchpail guys who made the most of themselves.

Malik Sealy is in a category all by himself, it felt like a privilege to watch him play.

Sonny Dove and John Warren were before my time.
Click to expand...
What, no mention of Kyle “the handy man” Cuff??
 
redken1 said:
NCJohnnie, feel like I'm reading my alter ego's posts whenever I read yours -- Sonny is my all-time fave as well; sounds like we were both frosh in Sonny's soph year; loved that team (was lucky to spend some time reminiscing with Bobby Mac and Jerry Houston at the Joe Lapchick unveiling a few years back); that Michigan game is my favorite win for a number of reasons, including Coach's Lapchick's final game; and a lot more. (By the way, the captain of that UM team was Larry Tregoning, who was "only" 6'-5" but, like bruisers Cazzie Russell, Bill Buntin and Oliver Darden, he too was built like a Big 10 linebacker.)

Note: Autocorrect changed my original "Houston" to "House." Corrected it.
Click to expand...
Always enjoy your posts Redken1. Actually, I am not a SJU alum although I hung out there between games and taverns all through college and a few years afterwards. But that first Sonny Dove year I was still in grammar school (7th grade); my Dad started taking me and my buddy to games on campus that year and my friend's Dad reciprocated by taking us to games at MSG including the Michigan Holiday festival. Beginning the following year my Dad had season tickets at Alumni Hall for about 10 years until I think the 1974-1975 team and I was forever a Johnnie die hard.
 
Last edited:
NCJohnnie said:
Always enjoy your posts Redken1. Actually, I am not a SJU alum although I hung out there between games and taverns all through college and a few years afterwards. But that first Sonny Dove year I was still in grammar school (7th grade); my Dad started taking me and my buddy to games on campus that year and my friend's Dad reciprocated by taking us to games at MSG including the Michigan Holiday festival. Beginning the following year my Dad had season tickets at Alumni Hall for about 10 years until I think the 1974-1975 team and I was forever a Johnnie die hard.
Click to expand...
"... still in grammar school" -- NCJohnnie, you're making me feel ancient.
 
Amaseinyourface said:
I’d be pleasantly surprised
Click to expand...
Not sure why ST John’s coaches have such a difficult time figuring out who their best 8 or 9 guys are and play them?
This should be the minimum you should be able to do as a coach.

Louie for the most part played only 8 and hated Frosh unless it was impossible not to.
Lou’s main issue when it came to PT was his unwavering loyalty. This manifested itself in the Bobby Kelly and Mike Moses over Kevin Williams and Mark Jackson fiascos and at the end Sproling over Derrick Brown.
Outside of those 3 issues Louie was mostly spot on.

Mahoney actually assembled talent but his rotation was constantly changing and wasn’t able to identify his best players. This and never getting a top point guard was his undoing.

Jarvis haters can hate but he played a short rotation and rode his best guys.

Norm was a disaster in every imaginable way but perhaps his biggest deficiency was not knowing who his best players were. Which is pretty amazing considering he didn’t have many.

Lavin other than picking a fight and suspending his best player was very good at figuring out who his best guys were.

Mullin’s problem was more about not being able to acquire talent and not letting his assistant coach for him. But he or ST Jean played his best guys when he had best guys.

Mike Anderson was truly awful at identifying who his best players were specifically Storr and wheeler.

Pitino’s sub patterns and rotations have been an absolute mess and seems to pick out a player that he will not be happy with before the season begins and jerks that guy around, see Dingle and Smith.
This has been maybe the most surprising thing to me so far in the Pitino year and a half.
 
Last edited:
MJDinkins said:
Ha! That's funny, and it has merit.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure Larry Wright has Larry Wright in mind. Larry Wright's issue with Norm is Larry Wright's usage. Which was mainly due to the fact that Larry Wright didn't play any damn defense and Norm was not going to play you if you didn't play defense.

At the time I did share Larry Wright's frustration about Larry Wright's usage, because it sure did seem as though Norm believed you could defend a team into negative points and it doesn't work that way, at some point you do have to actually score points and Larry Wright was about the only one on that roster who could do that.

But I do think that Larry Wright's near-mythic status for Larry Wright is a bit overblown - at the end of the day it isn't as though there was a huge talent disparity on the Norm rosters - the last couple of years he had 5 guys and that's who he played.

Anyway, as for current events whether I like it or not (I don't) I think we will see mix-n-match Pitino rosters all year but I am pretty sure Richmond and Zuby will be starting in every one of them and the question will be among Smith/Wilcher/Luis/Scott which 3 start in any given game. And I think that will depend on things like who practiced better, what Pitino thinks matches up best with the opponent, what Masiello had for breakfast,, the position of the sun and stars, etc
 
lawmanfan said:
I'm pretty sure Larry Wright has Larry Wright in mind. Larry Wright's issue with Norm is Larry Wright's usage. Which was mainly due to the fact that Larry Wright didn't play any damn defense and Norm was not going to play you if you didn't play defense.

At the time I did share Larry Wright's frustration about Larry Wright's usage, because it sure did seem as though Norm believed you could defend a team into negative points and it doesn't work that way, at some point you do have to actually score points and Larry Wright was about the only one on that roster who could do that.

But I do think that Larry Wright's near-mythic status for Larry Wright is a bit overblown - at the end of the day it isn't as though there was a huge talent disparity on the Norm rosters - the last couple of years he had 5 guys and that's who he played.

Anyway, as for current events whether I like it or not (I don't) I think we will see mix-n-match Pitino rosters all year but I am pretty sure Richmond and Zuby will be starting in every one of them and the question will be among Smith/Wilcher/Luis/Scott which 3 start in any given game. And I think that will depend on things like who practiced better, what Pitino thinks matches up best with the opponent, what Masiello had for breakfast,, the position of the sun and stars, etc
Click to expand...
Brownlee and Hardy were Norm’s 6th and 7th men and the following year were the 2 best players on a NCAA team.
Don’t remember Avery Patterson playing lock down D and he played over Wright.
And anyone should have played over Geno.
 
Boo Harvey said:
I love DJ Kennedy but Hardy was more than a major component. He was by far the best and most important player on that team. Obviously when Kennedy went down the team was diminished but I think they leaned a little early even with a healthy Kennedy.
Click to expand...
Exactly why DJ was the glue. No one doubts how prolific Hardy was. DJ was an all around player that a team needs to be successful.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top