Time to Hire ...

[Moose]

If only Billy Donovan would have said yes. Hell, if only Paul Hewitt's wife would have said yes. Oh, If only the search committee would said yes to Al Skinner. Anybody but Lavin would have been better in retrospect and I was huge fan of the Lavin hire when it came down.

Actually Skinner is available. Just read a nice read and endorsement about him from the PC coach, COOLEY ON THE FRIAR BOARD.
Al is ASST coach at Bryant in RI, under Tim O'Shea, a former protege, as was COOLEY.

Skinner is the all time leader in Wins at BC. He won with BC in the BE and ACC, as well. Appears He got a raw deal at BC and the guy they brought in hasn't won a thing.
Skiner is a NY TOO. age 61.

If Al Skinner was so great at BC why has he not landed a HC job since 2010?

 

[westchesterjoe]

I do not foresee Larry Brown leaving SMU. He has not been there (here) very long and is now just seeing the fruits of his labor. They just spent big $ renovating the arena (you can now buy a beer there :lol: ) and are drawing nice sized crowds. SMU / Highland Park to SJU... I do not see it happening my friends.

very good points you make. ALL valid. Except Larry has always been a wandering gypsy his whole career, why stop now? I doubt he would not take the SJU JOB IF OFFERRED, regardless of Texas living.

Hey, it's NY..

 

[Moose]

I do not foresee Larry Brown leaving SMU. He has not been there (here) very long and is now just seeing the fruits of his labor. They just spent big $ renovating the arena (you can now buy a beer there :lol: ) and are drawing nice sized crowds. SMU / Highland Park to SJU... I do not see it happening my friends.

very good points you make. ALL valid. Except Larry has always been a wandering gypsy his whole career, why stop now? I doubt he would not take the SJU JOB IF OFFERRED, regardless of Texas living.

Hey, it's NY..

Because we have become the school looking for a head coach every 5 years. That is NOT good. You need a LONG TERM solution. Hiring someone in their 60's or 70's with a PROPENSITY for changing jobs every other year is NOT the right strategy.

 

[westchesterjoe]

If only Billy Donovan would have said yes. Hell, if only Paul Hewitt's wife would have said yes. Oh, If only the search committee would said yes to Al Skinner. Anybody but Lavin would have been better in retrospect and I was huge fan of the Lavin hire when it came down.

Actually Skinner is available. Just read a nice read and endorsement about him from the PC coach, COOLEY ON THE FRIAR BOARD.
Al is ASST coach at Bryant in RI, under Tim O'Shea, a former protege, as was COOLEY.

Skinner is the all time leader in Wins at BC. He won with BC in the BE and ACC, as well. Appears He got a raw deal at BC and the guy they brought in hasn't won a thing.
Skiner is a NY TOO. age 61.

If Al Skinner was so great at BC why has he not landed a HC job since 2010?

Good POINT. Apparently the AD at BC de FILLIPO, stopped just short of slandering Skinner when he fired him. Ad's are a fraternity like COACHES .. IF you like read the Cooley piece on the FRIAR board and judge for yourself.. BC ad called him lazy. yet Skinner brought in a lot of NBA plaYERS to BC..

not sure if there weren't, unfortunately, racial overtones in his dismissal but, it's all conjecture.

I'm not endorsing SKINNER for SJU, just as a possible candidate.

And, lastly, if Lavin was so great a hire, why didn't anyone hire him in the 8 years at ESPN? Only us! And, the Bruin fans screamed NO!

 

[buckethead]

If only Billy Donovan would have said yes. Hell, if only Paul Hewitt's wife would have said yes. Oh, If only the search committee would said yes to Al Skinner. Anybody but Lavin would have been better in retrospect and I was huge fan of the Lavin hire when it came down.

With Paul Hewitt we'd be in the same spot. They might actually run smoother but there is NO WAY he would have recruited a class of this talent.

This group needs someone who knows how to get the most out of them. Harrison gets his points because he is a junk man...meaning he can create a shot out of the crap offensive sets that we attempt to run. Obekpa is the shot blocking beast because he is naturally gifted. None of what I see is coach developed. Harkless was going NBA no matter who coached him. None of the talent we have has been maximized.

We are as athletic as any team out there. We have shooters if we get them open consistently. We have the ability and size to match with nearly everyone. We have shot blockers. We can run. We have players with mid-range games. What we don't have is a system. If there is one thing a coach should bring with him is a system - a system that will SUCCEED. He should recruit players to fit his system.

If Lavin has recruited the players to make his system work then it is clear that his system is crap and he doesn't know what he's doing.

If he has brought players in that don't fit his system then he should have changed the system to make the most of his talent...but he hasn't. -and it begs the question is he actually recruiting with a vision or just to get listed as having a top class.

These players can compete on any level but they mill around the court aimlessly on offense, miss defensive assignments and are haphazard in applying some basic skills like boxing out. I think Lavin is a great guy based on the accounts of everything that has been posted about him, but I am not interested in great guys anymore. We rode out the Norm Roberts nice guy train for six years. If Lavin doesn't turn this season around he needs to go. Norm never has this talent and he never started a BE season 0-5. FYI I am not a Norm proponent - just saying I don't see major improvement between coaches outside of recruiting.

 

[beast of the east]

RIGHT beast.. Forget Larry was at UCLA.. STILL, FOR A 3 YEAR FIX, BROWN COULD coach KIDS OFF THE PLAYGROUND TO contending status in 2 years.. We could shock the World by bringing him in now. It would also get us back to a winning tradition quickly and then, have a good look at some real hot up and comer..

Brown gets us instant credibility, albeit for a short term. It might be worth it to re-establish what is now a tarnished Brand in College BB ONCE AGAIN.

does anyone remotely think Brown isn't a great, great Coach? We desperately need one of those and they don't grow on trees.

Don't go back to the UCLA well and don't go back to the broadcast booth either. Those might be two areas we can check off.

I disagree, Brown was at UCLA nearly a century ago, so he's not really just a former Bruin Coach.. He wins everywhere he goes, it's automatic..And, if not mistaken, Brown was not at the root of UCLA'S vacating problems. He just happened to be Coach at the time.

YES, Beast, you are right. BROWN is about the age of our fan base but, that means there may be AARP privileges at the concession stands, parking spots, valet coat check, etc.

BROWN is not a sleazy COACH. PEARL IS TAINTED, stay away.

Don't get me wrong. I think Larry Brown is one of the all-time great coaches, and more than Pat Riley or Phil Jackson, Brown has turned bad teams into good teams. He was also run out of NY by Isaiah Thomas, because the players went behind Brown's back because Brown is old school. He is also a long ISland native, from long beach. But he's at the end, and we need someone who will be here a while and establish a great program

 

[westchesterjoe]

If only Billy Donovan would have said yes. Hell, if only Paul Hewitt's wife would have said yes. Oh, If only the search committee would said yes to Al Skinner. Anybody but Lavin would have been better in retrospect and I was huge fan of the Lavin hire when it came down.

We might have Billy if Repole threw in a few horses.. :cheer: Hewitt was hot, about 10 years ago at GT, not so much now at GW..

 

[beast of the east]

Aside from Tim cluess are there any other St. John's guys competent enough to turn us around. Bruce pearl looks like a sexy hire but I don't think he would go for us. Where is Ben Howland right now lol

Tim Cluess is not a St John's guy. He left SJU for Hofstra

Ridiculous assertion - Cluess came from the pre-eminent family of St. john's basketball, with three brothers all starting on varsity before he arrived on campus. As the youngest brother, he LITERALLY grew up on SJU basketball watching brothers Hank, Greg, and Kevin start and star here. He had bad knees, and the same fierce desire that fires him now, he still wanted to see daylight. He left to play and pursue a degree at Hofstra, and NEVER stopped closely following SJU bball - to this day. To me, he's the next coach, if Lavin is to ever leave. He also lives less than 10 minutes from campus

Ridiculous assertion? Its a fact Beast. He left SJU and graduated somewhere else. Regardless of how many of his brothers came and played here.
If he's the next coach of SJU I'm out. I'll go find another team to root for.

Is that the reason you would be against him? That he left? That's your big problem with him?

Uh no. Not sure where you picked that up from the posts above. If that was a requirement of mine we would have 0 coaches to choose from.

I go to Iona games pretty frequently. Its a track meet. The track meet works at that level. His sideline demeanor is borders on embarrassing.

Everyone has favorites. He is a favorite of yours and there is nothing wrong with that. I just corrected a misnomer. Everyone thinks because is a Cluess he graduated from SJU like his other siblings. Just not true. But hardly factoring into why I wouldnt have him anywhere near my list of candidates.

From what I understand he is a lunatic on the sidelines up there, no? It's just his demeanor on the court. I do know a kid who played for him and he is LOVED by nearly all his players. He is also totally the real deal as a person, and I had him pegged wrong in that regard for many years. I think we could use a fiery coach, no?

 

[NYCRedmen]

These "who should we go after" topics are great for banter & discussion, but whether we want to accept it or not, Lavin is not going anywhere. Certainly not this year or next year. I am not saying that this is a good or a bad thing for us, simply stating what seems to be the situation as far as SJU basketball is concerned. I just don't see any way that the University fires Lavin after 4 years (really just 3 since he only coached 4 games his 2nd season), new President or not. As bad as the results have been this year, it's going to take a lot more losing, unfortunately, before the University ever crosses that path. That, and the big time donors saying they've had enough. Maybe I'm wrong, I'd welcome discussion on this.

 

[paultzman]

Aside from Tim cluess are there any other St. John's guys competent enough to turn us around. Bruce pearl looks like a sexy hire but I don't think he would go for us. Where is Ben Howland right now lol

Tim Cluess is not a St John's guy. He left SJU for Hofstra

Ridiculous assertion - Cluess came from the pre-eminent family of St. john's basketball, with three brothers all starting on varsity before he arrived on campus. As the youngest brother, he LITERALLY grew up on SJU basketball watching brothers Hank, Greg, and Kevin start and star here. He had bad knees, and the same fierce desire that fires him now, he still wanted to see daylight. He left to play and pursue a degree at Hofstra, and NEVER stopped closely following SJU bball - to this day. To me, he's the next coach, if Lavin is to ever leave. He also lives less than 10 minutes from campus

Ridiculous assertion? Its a fact Beast. He left SJU and graduated somewhere else. Regardless of how many of his brothers came and played here.
If he's the next coach of SJU I'm out. I'll go find another team to root for.

Is that the reason you would be against him? That he left? That's your big problem with him?

Uh no. Not sure where you picked that up from the posts above. If that was a requirement of mine we would have 0 coaches to choose from.

I go to Iona games pretty frequently. Its a track meet. The track meet works at that level. His sideline demeanor is borders on embarrassing.

Everyone has favorites. He is a favorite of yours and there is nothing wrong with that. I just corrected a misnomer. Everyone thinks because is a Cluess he graduated from SJU like his other siblings. Just not true. But hardly factoring into why I wouldnt have him anywhere near my list of candidates.

From what I understand he is a lunatic on the sidelines up there, no? It's just his demeanor on the court. I do know a kid who played for him and he is LOVED by nearly all his players. He is also totally the real deal as a person, and I had him pegged wrong in that regard for many years. I think we could use a fiery coach, no?

Cluess NOT the guy. Correct reasons already cited.

 

[beast of the east]

Aside from Tim cluess are there any other St. John's guys competent enough to turn us around. Bruce pearl looks like a sexy hire but I don't think he would go for us. Where is Ben Howland right now lol

Tim Cluess is not a St John's guy. He left SJU for Hofstra

Ridiculous assertion - Cluess came from the pre-eminent family of St. john's basketball, with three brothers all starting on varsity before he arrived on campus. As the youngest brother, he LITERALLY grew up on SJU basketball watching brothers Hank, Greg, and Kevin start and star here. He had bad knees, and the same fierce desire that fires him now, he still wanted to see daylight. He left to play and pursue a degree at Hofstra, and NEVER stopped closely following SJU bball - to this day. To me, he's the next coach, if Lavin is to ever leave. He also lives less than 10 minutes from campus

Ridiculous assertion? Its a fact Beast. He left SJU and graduated somewhere else. Regardless of how many of his brothers came and played here.
If he's the next coach of SJU I'm out. I'll go find another team to root for.

Cluess' time at St. John's pre dates me by a couple of years. Can someone explain to me why he transferred and how good of a player he was? I like the idea of a coach from Queens.

This is just my opinion, but Cluess never played very much and my presumption was that he simply wasn't as good as his brothers. But I've since learned he had horrible knee problems, and that could have been the reason he was mostly an end of the bench player here. I think he just really badly wanted to play bball and wasn't going to get much run at the SJU level then. Today - he might have played in overtime yesterday, but I guess that doesn't prove anything about ability

 

[paultzman]

These "who should we go after" topics are great for banter & discussion, but whether we want to accept it or not, Lavin is not going anywhere. Certainly not this year or next year. I am not saying that this is a good or a bad thing for us, simply stating what seems to be the situation as far as SJU basketball is concerned. I just don't see any way that the University fires Lavin after 4 years (really just 3 since he only coached 4 games his 2nd season), new President or not. As bad as the results have been this year, it's going to take a lot more losing, unfortunately, before the University ever crosses that path. That, and the big time donors saying they've had enough. Maybe I'm wrong, I'd welcome discussion on this.

Not during season, but don't be so sure after that. Firing is not only approach. Rub enough folks with clout the wrong way & decisions can be made.

 

[NYCRedmen]

These "who should we go after" topics are great for banter & discussion, but whether we want to accept it or not, Lavin is not going anywhere. Certainly not this year or next year. I am not saying that this is a good or a bad thing for us, simply stating what seems to be the situation as far as SJU basketball is concerned. I just don't see any way that the University fires Lavin after 4 years (really just 3 since he only coached 4 games his 2nd season), new President or not. As bad as the results have been this year, it's going to take a lot more losing, unfortunately, before the University ever crosses that path. That, and the big time donors saying they've had enough. Maybe I'm wrong, I'd welcome discussion on this.

Not during season, but don't be so sure after that. Firing is not only approach. Rub enough folks with clout the wrong way & decisions can be made.

Not sure how that changes anything if he is under contract. This is not just about winning games, the University wants stability, they don't want to make coaching changes every 4 to 6 years. Something tells me they are committed to making this work long term. Not basing this on anything specific, just a hunch.

 

[paultzman]

These "who should we go after" topics are great for banter & discussion, but whether we want to accept it or not, Lavin is not going anywhere. Certainly not this year or next year. I am not saying that this is a good or a bad thing for us, simply stating what seems to be the situation as far as SJU basketball is concerned. I just don't see any way that the University fires Lavin after 4 years (really just 3 since he only coached 4 games his 2nd season), new President or not. As bad as the results have been this year, it's going to take a lot more losing, unfortunately, before the University ever crosses that path. That, and the big time donors saying they've had enough. Maybe I'm wrong, I'd welcome discussion on this.

Not during season, but don't be so sure after that. Firing is not only approach. Rub enough folks with clout the wrong way & decisions can be made.

Not sure how that changes anything if he is under contract. This is not just about winning games, the University wants stability, they don't want to make coaching changes every 4 to 6 years. Something tells me they are committed to making this work long term. Not basing this on anything specific, just a hunch.

Respect, but we differ on that. We will see.

 

[1and1sju]

Orlando Antigua. Tough NY guy and former player who has been learning under Jamie Dixon and now Calipari. Also an excellent recruiter. Someone's going to make him a HC very soon. Why not us?

 

[redfazed]

Orlando Antigua. Tough NY guy and former player who has been learning under Jamie Dixon and now Calipari. Also an excellent recruiter. Someone's going to make him a HC very soon. Why not us?

Why would we settle for someone with no head coach experience--or even limited HC experience??

 

[SI1996]

Orlando Antigua. Tough NY guy and former player who has been learning under Jamie Dixon and now Calipari. Also an excellent recruiter. Someone's going to make him a HC very soon. Why not us?

Couldn't have you said the same about Norm? That didn't turn out well. We need a proven commodity.

 

[MJDinkins]

Orlando Antigua. Tough NY guy and former player who has been learning under Jamie Dixon and now Calipari. Also an excellent recruiter. Someone's going to make him a HC very soon. Why not us?

Respectfully, disagree, Desco. He may very, well be a good coach. But let him learn elsewhere.

Let him earn his bones with a mid-major program.

Just because I've ridden in the cars of professional drivers doesn't mean I can drive the same way as they do.

 

[Andrew]

If only Billy Donovan would have said yes. Hell, if only Paul Hewitt's wife would have said yes. Oh, If only the search committee would said yes to Al Skinner. Anybody but Lavin would have been better in retrospect and I was huge fan of the Lavin hire when it came down.

We might have Billy if Repole threw in a few horses.. :cheer: Hewitt was hot, about 10 years ago at GT, not so much now at GW..

Hewitt's career has been very up and down.

 

[1and1sju]

Orlando Antigua. Tough NY guy and former player who has been learning under Jamie Dixon and now Calipari. Also an excellent recruiter. Someone's going to make him a HC very soon. Why not us?

Why would we settle for someone with no head coach experience--or even limited HC experience??

This is in response to Dinkins and SI too... I respect what you guys are saying.
I know my opinion isn't a popular one. And I fully recognize there are other good options, and if we hire someone like Maisello or Hurley I would be perfectly happy.
But hear me out..
The guys with proven track records as head coaches aren't going to be available to us. We're not getting Shaka or Mark Few. It would have to be someone who has already been fired by a big program, or someone with only moderate success at a mid-major.

And yes, Norm was an assistant with somewhat similar credentials before we hired him. But so was Crean before Marquette hired him away from Izzos staff.

I think Antigua is unique because he appeases a lot of different interested parties, and checks off a lot of boxes:
1) He's a NYC guy, and like it or not a lot of our fans care about that. Especially the older guys.
2) He's catholic, and a product of CHSAA. Again, like it or not, this will matter to some of the trustees.
3) As a first time HC he won't demand an absolutely ridiculous salary. And this matters if we're buying out Lavin.
4) He's an elite recruiter. Granted he was doing it as the arm of successful programs like Pitt and UK, but he is also known for building relationships with the kids he truly covets. And NBA guys like Cousins swear by him. Also, he has learned from some pretty good recruiters like Cal, Dixon, Slice
5) And he has a background that some players will relate to, kids that are sometimes hard to connect with. Anybody read the FoxSports or NYTimes articles about all the trauma our guys have been through off the court? Antigua knows that as well as anyone. This is a guy who was shot in the head.

Not a perfect candidate, but one who deserves to be on the short list. That's my argument. Give him one of the interviews and see what happens. And if we end up going in another direction.. fine. But kick the tires first. This could be this generation's Billy Donovan, ny guy and former player who had the right mentors.

And let's not go crazy. He's not that similar to Norm. This is a guy who was an excellent player in his own right - a McDonalds AA. He's the head coach of the Dominican National Team. And while Norm came from a program that recruited well, what Antigua has done at Memphis and Kentucky with Cal is unparalleled.