The St Johns Mount Rushmore

SLYFOXX1968 said:
Very true . But , coming from those Conferences , he seemingly didn’t have much knowledge about the BE and that all the Schools were Catholic and private , excluding Butler and UCONN . No tax payer money like Arkansas .

But , considering the BE has Won 3 NCAA Titles in the last 6-7 years , the argument could be made as to the toughest Conferences favoring the BE .

CMA’s legacy was made elsewhere and no one denies his place as a good , not great Coach for most of his Career .
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He had no knowledge about the BE, but that didn't stop him from signing a multi-million dollar contract and demanding an extension. All of that is fine, but if you're gonna do that then no excuses when you fail. Thankfully we have a coach now who doesn't make excuses.
 
monte said:
I get it now, Anderson was a victim of circumstance at both Arkansans and SJU. In all my years on this planet, Ive lost track of the amount of times I've heard that excuse from losers. Ironically I've never heard it from winners. Spin it any way you want, not only was Anderson the worst coaching hire dollar for dollar in SJU history, he was one of the worst coaching hires dollar for dollar in college basketball history. The sooner we real SJU fans put him in the rear view mirror, the better off we'll be.
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OMG write this down the day Monte never mentioned Lavin :)
 
dk423 said:
Chat GPT said:
"
For St. John's Athletics, choosing a Mount Rushmore of the top four individuals can be subjective, as there are many notable figures who have contributed to the program's success. However, based on their impact and significance, the following four individuals could be considered for the Mount Rushmore of St. John's Athletics:

  1. Lou Carnesecca (Coach): Lou Carnesecca is a legendary basketball coach who spent over 20 years at St. John's University. He led the Red Storm to great success, including multiple Big East titles and Final Four appearances. Carnesecca is widely regarded as one of the most influential figures in St. John's basketball history.
  2. Chris Mullin (Player and Coach): Chris Mullin is one of the most iconic basketball players in St. John's history. He had an outstanding collegiate career with the Red Storm, earning multiple All-American honors. Mullin later returned to St. John's as the head coach and played a crucial role in revitalizing the program.
  3. Frank McGuire (Coach): Frank McGuire served as the head basketball coach at St. John's from 1947 to 1952 and achieved remarkable success. Under his guidance, St. John's won the 1952 National Championship. McGuire's impact on the program and his coaching prowess make him a significant figure in St. John's Athletics.
  4. Ron Artest (Player): Ron Artest, also known as Metta World Peace, had a standout basketball career at St. John's. He was an integral part of the team that reached the Elite Eight in the NCAA Tournament in 1999. Artest's tenacity and defensive prowess earned him recognition as one of the top players to come out of St. John's.
Please note that this selection is subjective, and there are many other deserving individuals who have made significant contributions to St. John's Athletics.
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not worried about chat gbt taking my job
 
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redken1 said:
Referring back to dk423's choice of Frank McGuire for his "top four," think McGuire. as good as he was, would be a much better fit for the ACC's Mount Rushmore.
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I think he would be a fit for both. He was an alum of SJU, as well as the only coach to get us to an NCAA championship game. Success followed him to NC and to SC.
 
redken1 said:
With all due respect, dk423, if Joe Lapchick isn't in your top four -- but Ron Artest is! -- there's something wrong with how you see St. John's history. On the other hand, liked your inclusion of Frank McGuire.
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monte said:
I get it now, Anderson was a victim of circumstance at both Arkansans and SJU. In all my years on this planet, Ive lost track of the amount of times I've heard that excuse from losers. Ironically I've never heard it from winners. Spin it any way you want, not only was Anderson the worst coaching hire dollar for dollar in SJU history, he was one of the worst coaching hires dollar for dollar in college basketball history. The sooner we real SJU fans put him in the rear view mirror, the better off we'll be.
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While I can understand and sympathize to why you feel this way, us real fans have no shortage of "worst hires in the hidtory" of possibly even employment. The good thing about us to continue to hire men's basket coaches is that on each successive firing, prior fired coaches are relieved of the title of worst hire ever.

God hired this guy Adam to start humanity. Easy job. Just enjoy the place. Even hired an assistant so he wouldn't be alone. Just one rule and one rule only. Worst hire ever. Of course until.one of his kids killed his brother. Then Adam didn't seem so bad.

Hiring just doesn't seem to work out anymore. No one survives to get a gold watch and retirement dinner anymore. Harrington got the watch, a nice one. Even that didn't end well.

We are cursed. 😀
 
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redken1 said:
With all due respect, dk423, if Joe Lapchick isn't in your top four -- but Ron Artest is! -- there's something wrong with how you see St. John's history. On the other hand, liked your inclusion of Frank McGuire.
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monte said:
I get it now, Anderson was a victim of circumstance at both Arkansans and SJU. In all my years on this planet, Ive lost track of the amount of times I've heard that excuse from losers. Ironically I've never heard it from winners. Spin it any way you want, not only was Anderson the worst coaching hire dollar for dollar in SJU history, he was one of the worst coaching hires dollar for dollar in college basketball history. The sooner we real SJU fans put him in the rear view mirror, the better off we'll be.
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While I can understand and sympathize to why you feel this way, us real fans have no shortage of "worst hires in the hidtory" of possibly even employment. The good thing about us to continue to hire men's basket coaches is that on each successive firing, prior fired coaches are relieved of the title of worst hire ever.

God hired this guy Adam to start humanity. Easy job. Just enjoy the place. Even hired an assistant so he wouldn't be alone. Just one rule and one rule only. Worst hire ever. Of course until.one of his kids killed his brother. Then Adam didn't seem so bad
 
panther2 said:
I have separate Mt Ruhmore's for coaches and players.
Coaches:
Joe Lapchick
Lou Carnesecca
Frank McGuire
To Be Determined

Players:
Tony Jackson
Sonny Dove
Chris Mullin
Walter Berry
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Panther, was Sonny Dove better as a collegian than George Johnson?

Kaiser must be on the mountain if McGuire is. He'd be before him.
 
Beasts of the East said:
Panther, was Sonny Dove better as a collegian than George Johnson?

Kaiser must be on the mountain if McGuire is. He'd be before him.
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I know Panther will likely respond to your question on Sonny Dove and George Johnson but , I could not resist the temptation to weigh in as well .

The Dove - Johnson Comparison is a good one , very good .

I have always been unabashedly a Sonny Dove fan since I saw him play in his Sophomore year in 1968 . Freshman could not play Varsity back then .

He played Center on that 1969 NIT Winning Team in Joe Lapchick’s final game as Coach .

Sonny was listed at 6’7” or 6’8” and 190 or 200 pounds . He was rail thin in College .

If there were 5 Star Players back in the Day , Sonny would be a 6 ! He could do it all , Rebound , Score , Shoot, handle the ball like a Guard ..

Sonny was a All American in his Senior year as I recall and a first round draft choice of the Detroit Pistons .

I believe Kareem has said publicly that he would have come to St John’s if Lapchick had remained as Coach and that he wanted to play along side his Friend , Sonny Dove .

George Johnson was a incredible player and rebounder but , just not the Star that Sonny was. I would say , George and Mel Davis , another great Redmen would be more on the same level .

That’s my take anyway . Maybe Panther’s recollections are more precise than mine as he knew those Players personally .


If the Mt Rushmore of All Time Redmen was not Basketball Exclusive , Jack Kaiser is certainly on that level .
 
SLYFOXX1968 said:
I know Panther will likely respond to your question on Sonny Dove and George Johnson but , I could not resist the temptation to weigh in as well .

The Dove - Johnson Comparison is a good one , very good .

I have always been unabashedly a Sonny Dove fan since I saw him play in his Sophomore year in 1968 . Freshman could not play Varsity back then .

He played Center on that 1969 NIT Winning Team in Joe Lapchick’s final game as Coach .

Sonny was listed at 6’7” or 6’8” and 190 or 200 pounds . He was rail thin in College .

If there were 5 Star Players back in the Day , Sonny would be a 6 ! He could do it all , Rebound , Score , Shoot, handle the ball like a Guard ..

Sonny was a All American in his Senior year as I recall and a first round draft choice of the Detroit Pistons .

I believe Kareem has said publicly that he would have come to St John’s if Lapchick had remained as Coach and that he wanted to play along side his Friend , Sonny Dove .

George Johnson was a incredible player and rebounder but , just not the Star that Sonny was. I would say , George and Mel Davis , another great Redmen would be more on the same level .

That’s my take anyway . Maybe Panther’s recollections are more precise than mine as he knew those Players personally .


If the Mt Rushmore of All Time Redmen was not Basketball Exclusive , Jack Kaiser is certainly on that level .
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Agree with everything Sly said except Sonny actually was a soph in 1965 on the first St. John's team I was following closely the one that won the NIT and upset #1 Michigan (with Cazzie Russell & Bill Bunting) in the Holiday Festival. He is probably still my all time favorite Johnnie and was the 4th overall selection in the NBA draft and a third team All American in his senior year. Johnson was a very, very good player, but I would very definitely give Dove the edge as a Johnnie.
 
NCJohnnie said:
Agree with everything Sly said except Sonny actually was a soph in 1965 on the first St. John's team I was following closely the one that won the NIT and upset #1 Michigan (with Cazzie Russell & Bill Bunting) in the Holiday Festival. He is probably still my all time favorite Johnnie and was the 4th overall selection in the NBA draft and a third team All American in his senior year. Johnson was a very, very good player, but I would very definitely give Dove the edge as a Johnnie.
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NC , I must have done a typo on 1964-65 team when Sonny was a Soph . Don’t know where I got 1968 . I’m not a great typist . Focusing more on Paragraphs than typing .

I was a freshman in 64-65 and Sonny was a year ahead .

I was at that 1965 NIT Championship game at the old Garden on 8 th Avenue and 49th Street Vs Villanova .

2 things I remember vividly about that Game was the Old Garden actually felt like it was Rocking and , Smoking was still allowed in the Arena and there was this blue haze floating up to the Rafters .

The Smoke was really annoying if you sat behind or near, a Cigar smoker .
 
NCJohnnie said:
Agree with everything Sly said except Sonny actually was a soph in 1965 on the first St. John's team I was following closely the one that won the NIT and upset #1 Michigan (with Cazzie Russell & Bill Bunting) in the Holiday Festival. He is probably still my all time favorite Johnnie and was the 4th overall selection in the NBA draft and a third team All American in his senior year. Johnson was a very, very good player, but I would very definitely give Dove the edge as a Johnnie.
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Also, while Sonny was #2 all time leading rebounder and Johnson #1, have to remember that Sonny only was able to play 3 years and he was more of a scoring threat throughout his college career.
 
SLYFOXX1968 said:
I know Panther will likely respond to your question on Sonny Dove and George Johnson but , I could not resist the temptation to weigh in as well .

The Dove - Johnson Comparison is a good one , very good .

I have always been unabashedly a Sonny Dove fan since I saw him play in his Sophomore year in 1968 . Freshman could not play Varsity back then .

He played Center on that 1969 NIT Winning Team in Joe Lapchick’s final game as Coach .

Sonny was listed at 6’7” or 6’8” and 190 or 200 pounds . He was rail thin in College .

If there were 5 Star Players back in the Day , Sonny would be a 6 ! He could do it all , Rebound , Score , Shoot, handle the ball like a Guard ..

Sonny was a All American in his Senior year as I recall and a first round draft choice of the Detroit Pistons .

I believe Kareem has said publicly that he would have come to St John’s if Lapchick had remained as Coach and that he wanted to play along side his Friend , Sonny Dove .

George Johnson was a incredible player and rebounder but , just not the Star that Sonny was. I would say , George and Mel Davis , another great Redmen would be more on the same level .

That’s my take anyway . Maybe Panther’s recollections are more precise than mine as he knew those Players personally .


If the Mt Rushmore of All Time Redmen was not Basketball Exclusive , Jack Kaiser is certainly on that level .
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SlyFoxx, agree with everything you said. George was good but Sonny was just different. He was two years ahead of me in school, my first time around, lol. He was an exceptional rebounder for someone his size. He was the total package in college. The funny thing is that while I knew Sonny. my favorite player on the 1965 NIT Championship team was Kenny McIntyre.
 
SLYFOXX1968 said:
I think it might be better to separate Coaches , School Presidents , AD’s, etc from the Players .

And , for Players , to be fair you might consider them by the Decades they played here .

Otherwise , you miss some great Players of Year’s gone by.

I’ll start in the 50’s :

Tony Jackson , Alan Seiden, Solly Walker , LeRoy Ellis .

60’s :

Sonny Dove , Bob Macintyre , Ken Mac , Billy Paultz

70’s:

George Johnson , Mel Davis , Glen Williams , Reggie Carter

80’s


Mullin, Berry , Mark Jackson , Malik Sealy


90’s

Felipe, Zendon, Boo Harvey, Jayson Williams


2000’s

Artest, Barkley, Bootsy ,Marcus Hatten


That’s all I got for now . I’m sure others may have other players on their list .
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SLYFOXX1968 said:
I know Panther will likely respond to your question on Sonny Dove and George Johnson but , I could not resist the temptation to weigh in as well .

The Dove - Johnson Comparison is a good one , very good .

I have always been unabashedly a Sonny Dove fan since I saw him play in his Sophomore year in 1968 . Freshman could not play Varsity back then .

He played Center on that 1969 NIT Winning Team in Joe Lapchick’s final game as Coach .

Sonny was listed at 6’7” or 6’8” and 190 or 200 pounds . He was rail thin in College .

If there were 5 Star Players back in the Day , Sonny would be a 6 ! He could do it all , Rebound , Score , Shoot, handle the ball like a Guard ..

Sonny was a All American in his Senior year as I recall and a first round draft choice of the Detroit Pistons .

I believe Kareem has said publicly that he would have come to St John’s if Lapchick had remained as Coach and that he wanted to play along side his Friend , Sonny Dove .

George Johnson was a incredible player and rebounder but , just not the Star that Sonny was. I would say , George and Mel Davis , another great Redmen would be more on the same level .

That’s my take anyway . Maybe Panther’s recollections are more precise than mine as he knew those Players personally .


If the Mt Rushmore of All Time Redmen was not Basketball Exclusive , Jack Kaiser is certainly on that level .
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2 months ago this king list woukd have been unreadable and now it’s a model of how to make reading more enjoyable on red fans
 
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