The St Johns Mount Rushmore

monte said:
Except that Anderson did get decent talent here, so that wasn't the issue. It was his coaching that was the problem. He flat out stunk his last 2 years. And while I think that Rick has put together a deeper and more balanced team then Anderson ever did, I don't think that the talent level is significantly better then last year's team.
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That kind of talk will put you on the crap list here
 
SLYFOXX1968 said:
I think it might be better to separate Coaches , School Presidents , AD’s, etc from the Players .

And , for Players , to be fair you might consider them by the Decades they played here .

Otherwise , you miss some great Players of Year’s gone by.

I’ll start in the 50’s :

Tony Jackson , Alan Seiden, Solly Walker , LeRoy Ellis .

60’s :

Sonny Dove , Bob Macintyre , Ken Mac , Billy Paultz

70’s:

George Johnson , Mel Davis , Glen Williams , Reggie Carter

80’s


Mullin, Berry , Mark Jackson , Malik Sealy


90’s

Felipe, Zendon, Boo Harvey, Jayson Williams


2000’s

Artest, Barkley, Bootsy ,Marcus Hatten


That’s all I got for now . I’m sure others may have other players on their list .
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Excellent decade lists Sly. I think you've got to include Johnny Warren for the 1960s and Bill Schaeffer for the 1970s too though.
 
Bob Cousy
Lew Alcindor
Hakeem Olajuwon
Gary Payton

Our Mt. Rushmore of recruiting blunders can beat any other school's Mt. Rushmore of recruiting blunders!
 
Chat GPT said:
"
For St. John's Athletics, choosing a Mount Rushmore of the top four individuals can be subjective, as there are many notable figures who have contributed to the program's success. However, based on their impact and significance, the following four individuals could be considered for the Mount Rushmore of St. John's Athletics:

  1. Lou Carnesecca (Coach): Lou Carnesecca is a legendary basketball coach who spent over 20 years at St. John's University. He led the Red Storm to great success, including multiple Big East titles and Final Four appearances. Carnesecca is widely regarded as one of the most influential figures in St. John's basketball history.
  2. Chris Mullin (Player and Coach): Chris Mullin is one of the most iconic basketball players in St. John's history. He had an outstanding collegiate career with the Red Storm, earning multiple All-American honors. Mullin later returned to St. John's as the head coach and played a crucial role in revitalizing the program.
  3. Frank McGuire (Coach): Frank McGuire served as the head basketball coach at St. John's from 1947 to 1952 and achieved remarkable success. Under his guidance, St. John's won the 1952 National Championship. McGuire's impact on the program and his coaching prowess make him a significant figure in St. John's Athletics.
  4. Ron Artest (Player): Ron Artest, also known as Metta World Peace, had a standout basketball career at St. John's. He was an integral part of the team that reached the Elite Eight in the NCAA Tournament in 1999. Artest's tenacity and defensive prowess earned him recognition as one of the top players to come out of St. John's.
Please note that this selection is subjective, and there are many other deserving individuals who have made significant contributions to St. John's Athletics.
 
dk423 said:
Chat GPT said:
"
For St. John's Athletics, choosing a Mount Rushmore of the top four individuals can be subjective, as there are many notable figures who have contributed to the program's success. However, based on their impact and significance, the following four individuals could be considered for the Mount Rushmore of St. John's Athletics:

  1. Lou Carnesecca (Coach): Lou Carnesecca is a legendary basketball coach who spent over 20 years at St. John's University. He led the Red Storm to great success, including multiple Big East titles and Final Four appearances. Carnesecca is widely regarded as one of the most influential figures in St. John's basketball history.
  2. Chris Mullin (Player and Coach): Chris Mullin is one of the most iconic basketball players in St. John's history. He had an outstanding collegiate career with the Red Storm, earning multiple All-American honors. Mullin later returned to St. John's as the head coach and played a crucial role in revitalizing the program.
  3. Frank McGuire (Coach): Frank McGuire served as the head basketball coach at St. John's from 1947 to 1952 and achieved remarkable success. Under his guidance, St. John's won the 1952 National Championship. McGuire's impact on the program and his coaching prowess make him a significant figure in St. John's Athletics.
  4. Ron Artest (Player): Ron Artest, also known as Metta World Peace, had a standout basketball career at St. John's. He was an integral part of the team that reached the Elite Eight in the NCAA Tournament in 1999. Artest's tenacity and defensive prowess earned him recognition as one of the top players to come out of St. John's.
Please note that this selection is subjective, and there are many other deserving individuals who have made significant contributions to St. John's Athletics.
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How did Mullin play a crucial role in revitalizing the program? I think one could argue that he did the exact opposite.
 
monte said:
Except that Anderson did get decent talent here, so that wasn't the issue. It was his coaching that was the problem. He flat out stunk his last 2 years. And while I think that Rick has put together a deeper and more balanced team then Anderson ever did, I don't think that the talent level is significantly better then last year's team.
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If Anderson had the current St John's NIL tailwinds behind him he would have landed better shooters and more of his higher ranked targets that Van and Shoes missed out on the past couple of years.
I have watched Anderson's coaching from UAB to the present. His teams at St John's were mostly devoid of players who can create their own shot (and make said shot), shoot a decent percentage from 3, finish strong at the rim, have a point guard who is a credible 3 point threat and a wing with a good inside outside game.... I could go on but you get the picture and that is a recruiting problem which in turn makes the coaching look bad.
 
NCJohnnie said:
Excellent decade lists Sly. I think you've got to include Johnny Warren for the 1960s and Bill Schaeffer for the 1970s too though.
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You are absolutely correct . I forgot those 2 for sure . But , I did limit it to 4 . There are others I probably missed too . Unless you go back and look at all the Rosters .

Which I didn’t do .
 
fat johnnie said:
If Anderson had the current St John's NIL tailwinds behind him he would have landed better shooters and more of his higher ranked targets that Van and Shoes missed out on the past couple of years.
I have watched Anderson's coaching from UAB to the present. His teams at St John's were mostly devoid of players who can create their own shot (and make said shot), shoot a decent percentage from 3, finish strong at the rim, have a point guard who is a credible 3 point threat and a wing with a good inside outside game.... I could go on but you get the picture and that is a recruiting problem which in turn makes the coaching look bad.
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Pre-NIL, Anderson was at Arkansas and money, facilities, etc wasn't an issue. So what happened there? Anyhow by your rationale some deep pocketed school in search of a solid coach will scoop Anderson up at some point, and he'll win big at that school since they'll give him everything SJU didn't. Guess we'll see.
 
You guys well in my humble opinion in the last 25 shitty years of st johns basketball there hasnt been 1 figure more important than Paul who created this site to talk hoops and st johns

looie Chris Kaiser yeah that's all debatable but IMO Paul isnt
 
dk423 said:
Chat GPT said:
"
For St. John's Athletics, choosing a Mount Rushmore of the top four individuals can be subjective, as there are many notable figures who have contributed to the program's success. However, based on their impact and significance, the following four individuals could be considered for the Mount Rushmore of St. John's Athletics:

  1. Lou Carnesecca (Coach): Lou Carnesecca is a legendary basketball coach who spent over 20 years at St. John's University. He led the Red Storm to great success, including multiple Big East titles and Final Four appearances. Carnesecca is widely regarded as one of the most influential figures in St. John's basketball history.
  2. Chris Mullin (Player and Coach): Chris Mullin is one of the most iconic basketball players in St. John's history. He had an outstanding collegiate career with the Red Storm, earning multiple All-American honors. Mullin later returned to St. John's as the head coach and played a crucial role in revitalizing the program.
  3. Frank McGuire (Coach): Frank McGuire served as the head basketball coach at St. John's from 1947 to 1952 and achieved remarkable success. Under his guidance, St. John's won the 1952 National Championship. McGuire's impact on the program and his coaching prowess make him a significant figure in St. John's Athletics.
  4. Ron Artest (Player): Ron Artest, also known as Metta World Peace, had a standout basketball career at St. John's. He was an integral part of the team that reached the Elite Eight in the NCAA Tournament in 1999. Artest's tenacity and defensive prowess earned him recognition as one of the top players to come out of St. John's.
Please note that this selection is subjective, and there are many other deserving individuals who have made significant contributions to St. John's Athletics.
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With all due respect, dk423, if Joe Lapchick isn't in your top four -- but Ron Artest is! -- there's something wrong with how you see St. John's history. On the other hand, liked your inclusion of Frank McGuire.
 
fat johnnie said:
Anderson got the short end of the stick. The University tried to go the cheap route and hired Anderson without giving him the support necessary to rebuild the program with facility upgrades and shoring up booster support to fund NIL opportunities that are the lifeblood of recruiting.
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Anderson was paid very well . Maybe too Well but , that’s another issue .

Being paid well requires hard work in all the Areas that a Coach in the BE is expected to perform . It’s a tough Conference and I think CMA didn’t realize just how tough the League can be . He knew very little about St John’s as a University coming in .

As many have said , and I think Dinkins was the first to voice it “ Mike looks like he’s lost his Fastball.” Or , something very close to that .

I seriously doubt that Mike was promised new facilities , bigger budget , Yankee and Mets tickets , plus IPA after the games .
 
monte said:
Pre-NIL, Anderson was at Arkansas and money, facilities, etc wasn't an issue. So what happened there? Anyhow by your rationale some deep pocketed school in search of a solid coach will scoop Anderson up at some point, and he'll win big at that school since they'll give him everything SJU didn't. Guess we'll see.
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Pre-NIL, dark money and slush funds ruled the landscape. All of the bluebloods were buying players through proxies. See Zion Williamson as exhibit A. This type of behaviour was rife throughout the SEC and exemplified by Will Wade at LSU and his "strong ass offer" comment recorded in a conversation about one of his recruits. Anderson lost several high profile recruits at Arkansas including Reggie Perry to Mississippi State and Malik Monk to Kentucky because he did not hire shady assistants and bagmen and it hurt his ability to get the kind of depth and talent needed to get him over the hump at Arkansas and as far as facilities go, Arkansas was the last SEC school to build a practice facility for their basketball team and had really fallen behind and did not rectify that until Anderson's fifth season at Arkansas and yet he was still able to get Arkansas out of the dump and back on track.
 
SLYFOXX1968 said:
Anderson was paid very well . Maybe too Well but , that’s another issue .

Being paid well requires hard work in all the Areas that a Coach in the BE is expected to perform . It’s a tough Conference and I think CMA didn’t realize just how tough the League can be . He knew very little about St John’s as a University coming in .

As many have said , and I think Dinkins was the first to voice it “ Mike looks like he’s lost his Fastball.” Or , something very close to that .

I seriously doubt that Mike was promised new facilities , bigger budget , Yankee and Mets tickets , plus IPA after the games .
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Mike did well in the Big 12 and SEC. Both of those conferences are about as tough as they come.
 
fat johnnie said:
Mike did well in the Big 12 and SEC. Both of those conferences are about as tough as they come.
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Very true . But , coming from those Conferences , he seemingly didn’t have much knowledge about the BE and that all the Schools were Catholic and private , excluding Butler and UCONN . No tax payer money like Arkansas .

But , considering the BE has Won 3 NCAA Titles in the last 6-7 years , the argument could be made as to the toughest Conferences favoring the BE .

CMA’s legacy was made elsewhere and no one denies his place as a good , not great Coach for most of his Career .
 
SLYFOXX1968 said:
Anderson was paid very well . Maybe too Well but , that’s another issue .

Being paid well requires hard work in all the Areas that a Coach in the BE is expected to perform . It’s a tough Conference and I think CMA didn’t realize just how tough the League can be . He knew very little about St John’s as a University coming in .

As many have said , and I think Dinkins was the first to voice it “ Mike looks like he’s lost his Fastball.” Or , something very close to that .

I seriously doubt that Mike was promised new facilities , bigger budget , Yankee and Mets tickets , plus IPA after the games .
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But he did know a lot about St. James.
 
redken1 said:
With all due respect, dk423, if Joe Lapchick isn't in your top four -- but Ron Artest is! -- there's something wrong with how you see St. John's history. On the other hand, liked your inclusion of Frank McGuire.
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That's not dk23's Rushmore, that's Chap GPT's.
 
fat johnnie said:
Pre-NIL, dark money and slush funds ruled the landscape. All of the bluebloods were buying players through proxies. See Zion Williamson as exhibit A. This type of behaviour was rife throughout the SEC and exemplified by Will Wade at LSU and his "strong ass offer" comment recorded in a conversation about one of his recruits. Anderson lost several high profile recruits at Arkansas including Reggie Perry to Mississippi State and Malik Monk to Kentucky because he did not hire shady assistants and bagmen and it hurt his ability to get the kind of depth and talent needed to get him over the hump at Arkansas and as far as facilities go, Arkansas was the last SEC school to build a practice facility for their basketball team and had really fallen behind and did not rectify that until Anderson's fifth season at Arkansas and yet he was still able to get Arkansas out of the dump and back on track.
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I get it now, Anderson was a victim of circumstance at both Arkansans and SJU. In all my years on this planet, Ive lost track of the amount of times I've heard that excuse from losers. Ironically I've never heard it from winners. Spin it any way you want, not only was Anderson the worst coaching hire dollar for dollar in SJU history, he was one of the worst coaching hires dollar for dollar in college basketball history. The sooner we real SJU fans put him in the rear view mirror, the better off we'll be.
 
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