The Knee

When I stand for the National Anthem, I don't do it out of respect to our military alone. I stand to give honor and a moment of contemplation to the greatest country ever. I stand for the sacrifices of our military, but I also stand for the sacrifices of all Americans who have made sacrifices on behalf of America. Those quiet Americans, who work from paycheck to paycheck, but still find a few bucks to share with people in greater need than themselves. I stand for the people who lived waiting in ration lines for gas or food during national emergency and wars. I stand for every American, no matter how rich or poor. How important or obscure they are working hard to care for their families, pay their taxes and live quiet lives, just trying to be good citizens.
I can't imagine walking into an office, or place of employment and taking a position contrary to what is acceptable in that place. I can remember going into work one day, and a superior coming to me and saying that campaign button should be taken off while at work, there might be others in the office or even customers that might find offense in it. I think everyone has two personas, a public one where you should do what is acceptable to society. The other being the private persona, where you stand for any cause or against it. Where you are free to campaign for or against any issue. In that private time if you want to call the President, or government or anything else names. DO IT! Right now you have players (privately employed) in a public setting protesting, as private citizens they have every right to do so., but in that public setting, they should be sensitive to the feelings and beliefs of others
This whole thing could have been resolved quickly and quietly, if 31 men said unequivocally, we will stand for the National Anthem. That would have put an end to this craziness, but they didn't.. I do not think these 31 powerful men supported the players because they believed in their 1st Amendment rights, no I think they took a knee on the issue because they wanted nothing to interfere with their cash flow. Oh let's be clear, I believe every player has a right to express his displeasure with something, for supporting a cause, Just do it on their private time.!
Now have another polarity to deal with.This is insanity. We are watching activist after activist, protest after protest, and in the mean time our country is going to hell in a handbasket. .
 
The players use their First Amendment right to protest.
The President uses his First Amendment right to criticize protest.
Supporters and detractors use their First Amendment right to support or criticize players, the president, each other.
People are talking.
No one has (yet) killed each other over this.
Democracy works.
The Republic still stands.
Next.
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Seems to be a wide array of arguments about why players shouldn't take a knee, but only one argument of why a player can take a silent knee during the national anthem. That player is exercising his freedom to protest in a non-confrontational, non-violent way. The first amendment rights don't get taken away from an American citizen because they make too much money, or because they are a celebrity, or because tax dollars contribute to their success. It's the players' right to exercise their first amendment right, it's your right to have an opinion, and as MainMan wrote above, it's all democracy in motion. The president's right to free speech is protected in the same way the players' rights are protected. If a sports team owner actually fired a player because he took a knee during the anthem, and the player sued, who wins that one? Players are bound by contracts with rules and terms set by the team, as well as the overall rules of the league. So when the president suggests for team owners to fire players, he's suggesting something that has no legal standing, and although many consider remarks like that to be misguided and stoking a fire, it's his right to make that comment on his own celebrity platform paid for by US tax dollars. Is it a good use of his first amendment rights? Luckily we are all protected to have our own opinion on that.
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sounds all right and logical except you are missing one crucial point regarding rights and that is that your rights end where mine begin. So yeah take a knee. Join a line, sing for peace. Harass your scum sucking politicians. I am all for it. There are so many outrageous things going on and people having a voice is crucial. But if you are a celebrity, it is self serving and outrageous for you to be doing so at the expense of other people who disagree with you. So go play ball in your backyard and have fun. Take millions and become a public figure and you have responsibilities beyond your personal beliefs or opinions. That doesn't mean that you don't have rights but you have a role and corresponding rights and duties. The other side of this is that when celebrities lose that sense of responsibility they then become propagandists. Either knowingly or unknowingly. So those freedoms that you and I both want and espouse are being undermined.
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This is all an (excellent) argument for your opinion, which you are of course is a right that you are very much entitled to. I'm guessing you were largely describing the NFL players taking a knee, but if you left out one sentence "So go play ball in your backyard and have fun" you could easily be describing the behavior and potential fallout of our president.
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I'm not sure what you are trying to say but if you are implying that I'm taking sides against players in favor of Trump that is nonsense and not related. Personally I think the NFL is an abomination. A boondoggle of the rich and powerful and how they treat players is atrocious most egregiously the sham players union. Best thing people could do is demand a refund of their season tickets and have Trump restart the USFL (kidding)

What I am most concerned about is mob rule where people are being pressured into how to think. I want to be able to say that I think Trump is a moron for engaging in Twitter the way he does and some of the other banal things that he seems to devote way too much time on, but I like the fact that he called out Europe to pay their fair share for NATO. That is actual freedom. But try to say anything like that and you are labeled a racist, hater or whatever for even thinking that evil incarnate Trump, is doing something positive. Just being some polarized drone only espousing one side of any issue regurgitating talking points and manifestos is not freedom. It is slavery. The worst kind where you have convinced yourself and go willingly and enthusiastically.
 
Sad story all around. If these guys feel there is racial injustice, which there definitely is, why don't you tackle this on a smaller scale and spend more time in the community? Give back to those struggling with the injustices and help them overcome some of the struggles they endure rather than banking $1 million a game and doing nothing to help the cause. It's hypocritical on many levels and could lead to the demise of the NFL which I've been speculating would happen for the past 10 years.

Flip side is we have a tone deaf president who is fueled by divisiveness. He is arrogant and no better than the men who are kneeling during the anthem.
 
To many of the old dudes in this thread, especially the guy who started this

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Sad story all around. If these guys feel there is racial injustice, which there definitely is, why don't you tackle this on a smaller scale and spend more time in the community? Give back to those struggling with the injustices and help them overcome some of the struggles they endure rather than banking $1 million a game and doing nothing to help the cause. It's hypocritical on many levels and could lead to the demise of the NFL which I've been speculating would happen for the past 10 years.

Flip side is we have a tone deaf president who is fueled by divisiveness. He is arrogant and no better than the men who are kneeling during the anthem.
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Most of these guys will hop in their Bentleys tonight and drop 20K popping bottles at the strip club. You know, "making a difference". It's a hypocritical fake stance on nothing that will cause change on any level.
 
Honestly, (apologize if previously stated - didnt take time to read 6 pages)- if they wanted to get even more awareness to what their cause is....take a knee at kickoff, and dont play the game. That will garner a TON of attention and awareness not just regionally, but globally as well.

Will show they are willing to sacrifice $$ to achieve whatever goal they have set.
 
Sad story all around. If these guys feel there is racial injustice, which there definitely is, why don't you tackle this on a smaller scale and spend more time in the community? Give back to those struggling with the injustices and help them overcome some of the struggles they endure rather than banking $1 million a game and doing nothing to help the cause......
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This is an unaware take. Let's take the most vocal members of the movement, Colin Kaepernick and the Bennett brothers and see what they do in the community.

Kaepernick - has started a "know your rights camp" for innercity youth so that they are aware of what their legal rights are should they get stopped. he is also donating $1 million over the last 10 months to homeless charities, educational and recreational charities. he also donated all jersey sales from last season to charity.

Michael and Martellus Bennett - has their own foundation in which they've spent over 240k on educational programs, has mobilized over 500 volunteers and have partnered with 40 community organization. they have both won philanthropy awards for their work.

Leaders of these movements are usually super active in the community and philanthropically. Do some research.
Most of you who say they should protest "on their own time" or in "different ways" have gripes with every form of protest that disrupts (which is how protests have historically been effective). Boycott going to the White House? "Insulting to the office of the presidency." Having marches in the street? "Why do they have to block/divert traffic?!" Really, what it boils down to is that you want these folks not to do anything that disturbs the norm or our way of thinking. They are there for your entertainment and your entertainment only. They should not have political views that, even for A MINUTE AND A HALF, interjects on your sportsing. God forbid.
 
Sad story all around. If these guys feel there is racial injustice, which there definitely is, why don't you tackle this on a smaller scale and spend more time in the community? Give back to those struggling with the injustices and help them overcome some of the struggles they endure rather than banking $1 million a game and doing nothing to help the cause......
Click to expand...

This is an unaware take. Let's take the most vocal members of the movement, Colin Kaepernick and the Bennett brothers and see what they do in the community.

Kaepernick - has started a "know your rights camp" for innercity youth so that they are aware of what their legal rights are should they get stopped. he is also donating $1 million over the last 10 months to homeless charities, educational and recreational charities. he also donated all jersey sales from last season to charity.

Michael and Martellus Bennett - has their own foundation in which they've spent over 240k on educational programs, has mobilized over 500 volunteers and have partnered with 40 community organization. they have both won philanthropy awards for their work.

Leaders of these movements are usually super active in the community and philanthropically. Do some research.
Most of you who say they should protest "on their own time" or in "different ways" have gripes with every form of protest that disrupts (which is how protests have historically been effective). Boycott going to the White House? "Insulting to the office of the presidency." Having marches in the street? "Why do they have to block/divert traffic?!" Really, what it boils down to is that you want these folks not to do anything that disturbs the norm or our way of thinking. They are there for your entertainment and your entertainment only. They should not have political views that, even for A MINUTE AND A HALF, interjects on your sportsing. God forbid.
Click to expand...

Please, we should respect their political thoughts, why? They are athletes that make millions off of the public. People watch sports as entertainment.
 
Sad story all around. If these guys feel there is racial injustice, which there definitely is, why don't you tackle this on a smaller scale and spend more time in the community? Give back to those struggling with the injustices and help them overcome some of the struggles they endure rather than banking $1 million a game and doing nothing to help the cause......
Click to expand...

This is an unaware take. Let's take the most vocal members of the movement, Colin Kaepernick and the Bennett brothers and see what they do in the community.

Kaepernick - has started a "know your rights camp" for innercity youth so that they are aware of what their legal rights are should they get stopped. he is also donating $1 million over the last 10 months to homeless charities, educational and recreational charities. he also donated all jersey sales from last season to charity.

Michael and Martellus Bennett - has their own foundation in which they've spent over 240k on educational programs, has mobilized over 500 volunteers and have partnered with 40 community organization. they have both won philanthropy awards for their work.

Leaders of these movements are usually super active in the community and philanthropically. Do some research.
Most of you who say they should protest "on their own time" or in "different ways" have gripes with every form of protest that disrupts (which is how protests have historically been effective). Boycott going to the White House? "Insulting to the office of the presidency." Having marches in the street? "Why do they have to block/divert traffic?!" Really, what it boils down to is that you want these folks not to do anything that disturbs the norm or our way of thinking. They are there for your entertainment and your entertainment only. They should not have political views that, even for A MINUTE AND A HALF, interjects on your sportsing. God forbid.
Click to expand...

Please, we should respect their political thoughts, why? They are athletes that make millions off of the public. People watch sports as entertainment.
Click to expand...

Because they are citizens just as you or I and deserve to have and express their views. Question: would your reaction be the same if an athlete had taken a knee during the national anthem in order to fight for improved benefits for veterans? (Another important issue which I would like to see more protests over). I would bet, as a "True Patriot", you would find this athlete courageous and urge all of us to turn our attention to the issue itself.
 
Sad story all around. If these guys feel there is racial injustice, which there definitely is, why don't you tackle this on a smaller scale and spend more time in the community? Give back to those struggling with the injustices and help them overcome some of the struggles they endure rather than banking $1 million a game and doing nothing to help the cause......
Click to expand...

This is an unaware take. Let's take the most vocal members of the movement, Colin Kaepernick and the Bennett brothers and see what they do in the community.

Kaepernick - has started a "know your rights camp" for innercity youth so that they are aware of what their legal rights are should they get stopped. he is also donating $1 million over the last 10 months to homeless charities, educational and recreational charities. he also donated all jersey sales from last season to charity.

Michael and Martellus Bennett - has their own foundation in which they've spent over 240k on educational programs, has mobilized over 500 volunteers and have partnered with 40 community organization. they have both won philanthropy awards for their work.

Leaders of these movements are usually super active in the community and philanthropically. Do some research.
Most of you who say they should protest "on their own time" or in "different ways" have gripes with every form of protest that disrupts (which is how protests have historically been effective). Boycott going to the White House? "Insulting to the office of the presidency." Having marches in the street? "Why do they have to block/divert traffic?!" Really, what it boils down to is that you want these folks not to do anything that disturbs the norm or our way of thinking. They are there for your entertainment and your entertainment only. They should not have political views that, even for A MINUTE AND A HALF, interjects on your sportsing. God forbid.
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Unaware? I know 1 thing. That I know nothing. You on the other hand are a pompous POS from what I can see.
 
Can one or more of the many brilliant legal minds on this board help us better understand the legality of these protests while being done on company time?
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To my non-brilliant legal mind, it seems like more non-owners are complaining about the whole company time thing than the guys who actually own the teams.
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I believe you are correct LJSA. The NFL has allowed their platform to be hijacked. Therefore, they own it. So where does it stop? Do they crackdown should a group oppose abortion or perhaps an anti-gun rights group decides they have enough player support to make a statement. Pandora's box is now open.
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I doubt it. The left believes that speech with which it disagrees is divisive and reactionary and therefore can be suppressed to the extent it is permitted at all. Which is why it's socially acceptable to for a marxist to punch a nazi. Flip that scenario and it's a hate crime.
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To each, according to their needs
 
Seems to me TR makes some good points. Kaepernick is involved in the community. I agreed with some of your points also. 'Hypocrisy' is an affliction that knows no bounds 'left' or 'right'.
It depends.
 
The players use their First Amendment right to protest.
The President uses his First Amendment right to criticize protest.
Supporters and detractors use their First Amendment right to support or criticize players, the president, each other.
People are talking.
No one has (yet) killed each other over this.
Democracy works.
The Republic still stands.
Next.
Click to expand...

Seems to be a wide array of arguments about why players shouldn't take a knee, but only one argument of why a player can take a silent knee during the national anthem. That player is exercising his freedom to protest in a non-confrontational, non-violent way. The first amendment rights don't get taken away from an American citizen because they make too much money, or because they are a celebrity, or because tax dollars contribute to their success. It's the players' right to exercise their first amendment right, it's your right to have an opinion, and as MainMan wrote above, it's all democracy in motion. The president's right to free speech is protected in the same way the players' rights are protected. If a sports team owner actually fired a player because he took a knee during the anthem, and the player sued, who wins that one? Players are bound by contracts with rules and terms set by the team, as well as the overall rules of the league. So when the president suggests for team owners to fire players, he's suggesting something that has no legal standing, and although many consider remarks like that to be misguided and stoking a fire, it's his right to make that comment on his own celebrity platform paid for by US tax dollars. Is it a good use of his first amendment rights? Luckily we are all protected to have our own opinion on that.
Click to expand...

sounds all right and logical except you are missing one crucial point regarding rights and that is that your rights end where mine begin. So yeah take a knee. Join a line, sing for peace. Harass your scum sucking politicians. I am all for it. There are so many outrageous things going on and people having a voice is crucial. But if you are a celebrity, it is self serving and outrageous for you to be doing so at the expense of other people who disagree with you. So go play ball in your backyard and have fun. Take millions and become a public figure and you have responsibilities beyond your personal beliefs or opinions. That doesn't mean that you don't have rights but you have a role and corresponding rights and duties. The other side of this is that when celebrities lose that sense of responsibility they then become propagandists. Either knowingly or unknowingly. So those freedoms that you and I both want and espouse are being undermined.
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Having a tough time understanding how your rights are infringed upon by the knee.

Some people have louder megaphones than others including NFL players at 12:45 p.m. on Sundays.

Is an op-ed columnist a celebrity? A Fox News or MSNBC host? George Soros? Charles Koch? Should they be silenced because they have access to a large audience through media and/or wealth?

You seem to be trying to institute some sort of social contract between celebrity and fan. None exist. A celebrity is determined by the market. People watch or don't. People pay or don't. There is no obligation for the celebrity to keep his/her mouth shut nor should there be.
 
Any scumbag that don't like this country and won't respect this country's anthem could GTF out. No one is putting a gun to their head making them stay.
But, they won't leave, why? Cause at the end of the day, they love the millions and millionssss that their making in the country.
So F THE ONES WHO KNEEL those pos.

Last thing. I'm glad Trump called them out. Atleast he's not like every other president, kissing Kims ass like BJ Clinton giving N Korea money to not make nukes or Obama.
Finally someone with a pair of balls standing up to that little chubby pos rocket man.
 
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