The Eternal "Who's the Worst SJU Coach" Debate

[Beasts of the East]

Why would you say fan base turned on him ? He was and still is my favorite player of all time. When it came to coaching
he didn’t do what he said he would do. I’m not talking about winning more games, he never recruited like he said.
He knows every gym in city but did he go to meet players and coaches. He didn’t move back to NY full time.
He hired a assistant who was a friend but had less experience than him We needed a dedicated full time coach at that
time. Not a part time coach, the majority of us didn’t complain because of who he is. He did win some big games with
Players Matt got for us but over all it was a mistake

1) Mullin DID move back to New York full time, buying a house in Manhasset for his family. Due to a family issue, they decided that his wife would move to the Bay Area with their youngest child, and Chris would live in NY. I spoke to Chris about this and his full intention was for his wife to move to NY with him when that kid started college. He added that his two sons lived in the NYC area and loved it here. Chris thought it was no big deal since as an nba player, constantly traveled away from home. Error on his part.

2) Chris had 3 AD's his first three years, and as a result had almost no oversight and guidance that may have avoided missteps.

3) Hiring Slice was a gigantic mistake, but everyone on here thought we stole him from Calipari. What idiot at St. John's would approve a 6 year guarantee with no buyout for an assistant? Answer: The same idiot who extended CMA 4 years with 2 remaining, in essence a 6 year guaranteed deal at 4x Slice salary.

4) Bobby G. Pinched pennies. So you fire Slice but no one was there to demand they hire an associate head coach to replace. So they saved on an assistant and it hurt on the court, especially with a newbie head coach.

5) Yes, Lavin set the precedent by hiring a special assistant. His was a 6 time national coach of the year, Gene Keady. Mullin's special assistant was a former NBA all star who also never coached before. Again, no AD to give pushback.

6) Mullin's tenure then was immediately compromised by a family situation that became bi-coastal, and over his final 2 years the fatal illness of his best friend and older brother.

5) Chris never realized the coaching in college is a 12 month a year, crazy bevy of responsibilities. Pitino assembled a great staff, all of whom have considerable authority and responsibility. Mullin had Greg and Matt (who never played so really didnt coach) and Richmond, who wasn't permitted to spesk in the huddle.

I'm sorry for all of this, Mullin was bashed on here and on twitter by fans as lazy and inept. Greg St. Jean, universally praised here with good reason once told me that Chris has the best basketball mind of anyone he ever knew (which includes Don Nelson and his own Dad). Terrence once confided to me, "Chris hates losing. This is tearing him apart ".

Failed as a college coach, yes.
Made mistakes that could have been corrected, yes.
Unfortunate family situations hampering him, yes.

Lazy, stupid, and whatever other invectives based on fans perceptions of his knowledge or efforts - mostly way off.

I'm in Rick's camp on this and see Carmine's point.

Chris is the greatest player we've ever had, and hopefully we see him at a game soon. Rick is rolling the red carpet out and I know all of u would welcome that.

 

[dk423]

1) Mullin DID move back to New York full time, buying a house in Manhasset for his family. Due to a family issue, they decided that his wife would move to the Bay Area with their youngest child, and Chris would live in NY. I spoke to Chris about this and his full intention was for his wife to move to NY with him when that kid started college. He added that his two sons lived in the NYC area and loved it here. Chris thought it was no big deal since as an nba player, constantly traveled away from home. Error on his part.

2) Chris had 3 AD's his first three years, and as a result had almost no oversight and guidance that may have avoided missteps.

3) Hiring Slice was a gigantic mistake, but everyone on here thought we stole him from Calipari. What idiot at St. John's would approve a 6 year guarantee with no buyout for an assistant? Answer: The same idiot who extended CMA 4 years with 2 remaining, in essence a 6 year guaranteed deal at 4x Slice salary.

4) Bobby G. Pinched pennies. So you fire Slice but no one was there to demand they hire an associate head coach to replace. So they saved on an assistant and it hurt on the court, especially with a newbie head coach.

5) Yes, Lavin set the precedent by hiring a special assistant. His was a 6 time national coach of the year, Gene Keady. Mullin's special assistant was a former NBA all star who also never coached before. Again, no AD to give pushback.

6) Mullin's tenure then was immediately compromised by a family situation that became bi-coastal, and over his final 2 years the fatal illness of his best friend and older brother.

5) Chris never realized the coaching in college is a 12 month a year, crazy bevy of responsibilities. Pitino assembled a great staff, all of whom have considerable authority and responsibility. Mullin had Greg and Matt (who never played so really didnt coach) and Richmond, who wasn't permitted to spesk in the huddle.

I'm sorry for all of this, Mullin was bashed on here and on twitter by fans as lazy and inept. Greg St. Jean, universally praised here with good reason once told me that Chris has the best basketball mind of anyone he ever knew (which includes Don Nelson and his own Dad). Terrence once confided to me, "Chris hates losing. This is tearing him apart ".

Failed as a college coach, yes.
Made mistakes that could have been corrected, yes.
Unfortunate family situations hampering him, yes.

Lazy, stupid, and whatever other invectives based on fans perceptions of his knowledge or efforts - mostly way off.

I'm in Rick's camp on this and see Carmine's point.

Chris is the greatest player we've ever had, and hopefully we see him at a game soon. Rick is rolling the red carpet out and I know all of u would welcome that.

A lot of what you’ve listed are valid enough reasons for fans to not be happy at all about the Chris Mullin “the coach” experience.

 

[NCJohnnie]

1) Mullin DID move back to New York full time, buying a house in Manhasset for his family. Due to a family issue, they decided that his wife would move to the Bay Area with their youngest child, and Chris would live in NY. I spoke to Chris about this and his full intention was for his wife to move to NY with him when that kid started college. He added that his two sons lived in the NYC area and loved it here. Chris thought it was no big deal since as an nba player, constantly traveled away from home. Error on his part.

2) Chris had 3 AD's his first three years, and as a result had almost no oversight and guidance that may have avoided missteps.

3) Hiring Slice was a gigantic mistake, but everyone on here thought we stole him from Calipari. What idiot at St. John's would approve a 6 year guarantee with no buyout for an assistant? Answer: The same idiot who extended CMA 4 years with 2 remaining, in essence a 6 year guaranteed deal at 4x Slice salary.

4) Bobby G. Pinched pennies. So you fire Slice but no one was there to demand they hire an associate head coach to replace. So they saved on an assistant and it hurt on the court, especially with a newbie head coach.

5) Yes, Lavin set the precedent by hiring a special assistant. His was a 6 time national coach of the year, Gene Keady. Mullin's special assistant was a former NBA all star who also never coached before. Again, no AD to give pushback.

6) Mullin's tenure then was immediately compromised by a family situation that became bi-coastal, and over his final 2 years the fatal illness of his best friend and older brother.

5) Chris never realized the coaching in college is a 12 month a year, crazy bevy of responsibilities. Pitino assembled a great staff, all of whom have considerable authority and responsibility. Mullin had Greg and Matt (who never played so really didnt coach) and Richmond, who wasn't permitted to spesk in the huddle.

I'm sorry for all of this, Mullin was bashed on here and on twitter by fans as lazy and inept. Greg St. Jean, universally praised here with good reason once told me that Chris has the best basketball mind of anyone he ever knew (which includes Don Nelson and his own Dad). Terrence once confided to me, "Chris hates losing. This is tearing him apart ".

Failed as a college coach, yes.
Made mistakes that could have been corrected, yes.
Unfortunate family situations hampering him, yes.

Lazy, stupid, and whatever other invectives based on fans perceptions of his knowledge or efforts - mostly way off.

I'm in Rick's camp on this and see Carmine's point.

Chris is the greatest player we've ever had, and hopefully we see him at a game soon. Rick is rolling the red carpet out and I know all of u would welcome that.

The coaching thing didnt work for all the reasons you
stated. Having said that, if Chris comes to a game, he’ll get a thunderous ovation for all the right reasons.

 

[Larry Wright]

I wish anyone would love me and ignore my inadequacies as much as Carmie loves Chris.

People on here turned on Mullin but a great number stayed with Norm to bitter end. Very strange.
If Walter Berry coached here he could take a nap during games and I wouldn’t criticize him.
Never understood the Norm loyalty at all.

 

[logen]

1) Mullin DID move back to New York full time, buying a house in Manhasset for his family. Due to a family issue, they decided that his wife would move to the Bay Area with their youngest child, and Chris would live in NY. I spoke to Chris about this and his full intention was for his wife to move to NY with him when that kid started college. He added that his two sons lived in the NYC area and loved it here. Chris thought it was no big deal since as an nba player, constantly traveled away from home. Error on his part.

2) Chris had 3 AD's his first three years, and as a result had almost no oversight and guidance that may have avoided missteps.

3) Hiring Slice was a gigantic mistake, but everyone on here thought we stole him from Calipari. What idiot at St. John's would approve a 6 year guarantee with no buyout for an assistant? Answer: The same idiot who extended CMA 4 years with 2 remaining, in essence a 6 year guaranteed deal at 4x Slice salary.

4) Bobby G. Pinched pennies. So you fire Slice but no one was there to demand they hire an associate head coach to replace. So they saved on an assistant and it hurt on the court, especially with a newbie head coach.

5) Yes, Lavin set the precedent by hiring a special assistant. His was a 6 time national coach of the year, Gene Keady. Mullin's special assistant was a former NBA all star who also never coached before. Again, no AD to give pushback.

6) Mullin's tenure then was immediately compromised by a family situation that became bi-coastal, and over his final 2 years the fatal illness of his best friend and older brother.

5) Chris never realized the coaching in college is a 12 month a year, crazy bevy of responsibilities. Pitino assembled a great staff, all of whom have considerable authority and responsibility. Mullin had Greg and Matt (who never played so really didnt coach) and Richmond, who wasn't permitted to spesk in the huddle.

I'm sorry for all of this, Mullin was bashed on here and on twitter by fans as lazy and inept. Greg St. Jean, universally praised here with good reason once told me that Chris has the best basketball mind of anyone he ever knew (which includes Don Nelson and his own Dad). Terrence once confided to me, "Chris hates losing. This is tearing him apart ".

Failed as a college coach, yes.
Made mistakes that could have been corrected, yes.
Unfortunate family situations hampering him, yes.

Lazy, stupid, and whatever other invectives based on fans perceptions of his knowledge or efforts - mostly way off.

I'm in Rick's camp on this and see Carmine's point.

Chris is the greatest player we've ever had, and hopefully we see him at a game soon. Rick is rolling the red carpet out and I know all of u would welcome that.

Great, great post!!
The realities and circumstances you cite just steamrolled Mullin, he didn’t just change from a committed hard working person into a lazy non-caring check casher overnight.

 

[Mullins Revenge]

A lot of what you’ve listed are valid enough reasons for fans to not be happy at all about the Chris Mullin “the coach” experience.

Mullin was an awful coach. That is nothing to be ashamed of. Coaching is really hard. I give Chris credit for trying.

I dont think his coaching effort tarnishes his st johns legacy at all. He is the goat.

Same situation w/ ewing at Georgetwon.

 

[dk423]

Mullin was an awful coach. That is nothing to be ashamed of. Coaching is really hard. I give Chris credit for trying.

I dont think his coaching effort tarnishes his st johns legacy at all. He is the goat.

Same situation w/ ewing at Georgetwon.

Absolutely. As a younger fan, I don't have memory of him playing but I'd give him a standing ovation without hesitation.

 

[SJU61982]

People on here turned on Mullin but a great number stayed with Norm to bitter end. Very strange.
If Walter Berry coached here he could take a nap during games and I wouldn’t criticize him.
Never understood the Norm loyalty at all.

When Norm arrived, we were just four years removed from a Big East Championship, and one year removed from an NIT title. Also,we were just two years removed from an NCAA Tournament bid.

I had a lot more patientce back then, since we had seen some success in the recent time. Since then, it's been no success, except for some one-and-done NCAA Tournament apperances.

I might have been more tolerant of Anderson's shortcomings if he came along at the same time Roberts did, or maybe even at the same time Lavin did.

 

[Larry Wright]

When Norm arrived, we were just four years removed from a Big East Championship, and one year removed from an NIT title. Also,we were just two years removed from an NCAA Tournament bid.

I had a lot more patientce back then, since we had seen some success in the recent time. Since then, it's been no success, except for some one-and-done NCAA Tournament apperances.

I might have been more tolerant of Anderson's shortcomings if he came along at the same time Roberts did, or maybe even at the same time Lavin did.

Thought this fan base also wasn’t fair to Lavin.

 

[BrookJersey Redmen]

Thought this fan base also wasn’t fair to Lavin.

Lavin was a nice fit here, it didn't work out perfectly, but I'd take him over CMA and CM as a coach every day of the week. Like CM, personal things and Lav's prostate cancer didn't help things.

 

[gcjohnny]

Just for the record had a friend of mine from SD write me the other day after attending a USD hoops game and he told me the mighty Toreros are 4-24 (1-13 in conference). At a certain point, I think Lavin just stops trying. Happened with us (with extenuating circumstances).

And we can always compare Chris favorably to Ewing at least. I mean Ewing nearly ground that program to dust. That miracle BE run they had which resulted in tourney birth was worst thing for them.

And if i'm talking about former coaches, i may as well always say screw jarvis forever!

 

[Marillac2]

1) Mullin DID move back to New York full time, buying a house in Manhasset for his family. Due to a family issue, they decided that his wife would move to the Bay Area with their youngest child, and Chris would live in NY. I spoke to Chris about this and his full intention was for his wife to move to NY with him when that kid started college. He added that his two sons lived in the NYC area and loved it here. Chris thought it was no big deal since as an nba player, constantly traveled away from home. Error on his part.

2) Chris had 3 AD's his first three years, and as a result had almost no oversight and guidance that may have avoided missteps.

3) Hiring Slice was a gigantic mistake, but everyone on here thought we stole him from Calipari. What idiot at St. John's would approve a 6 year guarantee with no buyout for an assistant? Answer: The same idiot who extended CMA 4 years with 2 remaining, in essence a 6 year guaranteed deal at 4x Slice salary.

4) Bobby G. Pinched pennies. So you fire Slice but no one was there to demand they hire an associate head coach to replace. So they saved on an assistant and it hurt on the court, especially with a newbie head coach.

5) Yes, Lavin set the precedent by hiring a special assistant. His was a 6 time national coach of the year, Gene Keady. Mullin's special assistant was a former NBA all star who also never coached before. Again, no AD to give pushback.

6) Mullin's tenure then was immediately compromised by a family situation that became bi-coastal, and over his final 2 years the fatal illness of his best friend and older brother.

5) Chris never realized the coaching in college is a 12 month a year, crazy bevy of responsibilities. Pitino assembled a great staff, all of whom have considerable authority and responsibility. Mullin had Greg and Matt (who never played so really didnt coach) and Richmond, who wasn't permitted to spesk in the huddle.

I'm sorry for all of this, Mullin was bashed on here and on twitter by fans as lazy and inept. Greg St. Jean, universally praised here with good reason once told me that Chris has the best basketball mind of anyone he ever knew (which includes Don Nelson and his own Dad). Terrence once confided to me, "Chris hates losing. This is tearing him apart ".

Failed as a college coach, yes.
Made mistakes that could have been corrected, yes.
Unfortunate family situations hampering him, yes.

Lazy, stupid, and whatever other invectives based on fans perceptions of his knowledge or efforts - mostly way off.

I'm in Rick's camp on this and see Carmine's point.

Chris is the greatest player we've ever had, and hopefully we see him at a game soon. Rick is rolling the red carpet out and I know all of u would welcome that.

Mullin didn't fail here. Our fans are maniacs. He did as well as any non-HOF level coach could do -- especially without prior coaching experience. His tenure here should be looked on a neutral outcome and no negativity by both sides.

 

[SJU61982]

Thought this fan base also wasn’t fair to Lavin.

I liked him too, for the record.

At the time, I thought the results we were getting were pretty much the ceiling for the program. Times have changed since then.

 

[Marillac2]

Thought this fan base also wasn’t fair to Lavin.

Our fans aren't fair to anyone.

 

[lawmanfan]

Just for the record had a friend of mine from SD write me the other day after attending a USD hoops game and he told me the mighty Toreros are 4-24 (1-13 in conference). At a certain point, I think Lavin just stops trying. Happened with us (with extenuating circumstances).

22-23: 11-20, 4-12
23-24: 18-15, 7-9
24-25: 4-24, 1-14

 

[lawmanfan]

OK now that I've moved the batch of posts on this topic to where it belongs:

Mahoney: lovely guy, could recruit, could not coach. At all.

That guy in between Fran and Norm: Not going to talk about that, Redmannorth has requested no more cursing and I can't have that conversation without cursing.

Norm: Brought in some serviceable players all at once but brought in nothing after that and couldn't coach.

Lavin: Swung for the fences on talented but troubled players, also couldn't coach. For those who want to say "but UCLA" I will say "but San Diego," see above for the numbers. All he can do is smile, talk, sell, and then roll the ball out and hope talent wins (if he doesn't get in the way). Without the resources to recruit, he's fresh out of tools in that toolkit. Empty suit of a basketball coach. (Apologies to Larry who pre-emptively said I was being unfair).

Mullin: Actually had a plan for how he wanted to play the game, and if it worked then it might have been an attractive product. The problem was mainly that he was woefully unprepared to be a coach. He thought he could treat college kids like pros (spoiler alert, you can't) either because he thought that was the way to go or because it was too much work to supervise them. He was unprepared or unwilling to do the hard work of recruiting players and building a program. He made awful decisions about filling out his staff. Basically he wanted to be a GM and have other people do the work except he then didn't bring in anyone who was capable of doing the work.

Anderson: Started well and then fell into a combination of the Lavin and Mullin traps. Brought in talent, reached for some players who destroyed team chemistry, did not exert enough discipline or make enough hard decisions to right the ship, which then sank. Like Mullin he had a plan for how he wanted to play and it might have worked reasonably well if he had made better decisions or been less of a players' coach.

So I guess the common thread of at least 4 prior coaches is that they could recruit more or less, but all had Achilles heels in terms of game coaching and/or player management (or both).

One thing about Pitino is there has never been a question about his coaching ability, he's always been one of the best there is. I had and to some extent still have concerns about recruiting but winning and money are pretty good tools to have in the toolkit. Will be interested to see what next year's team looks like.

 

[L J S A]

One thing about Pitino is there has never been a question about his coaching ability [ . . . ]

. . . aside from here, because we definitely had a few posters questioning whether he had lost his fastball.

 

[Knight]

The hardest part about Mullin's tenure is that the expectations were so high. He knew the janitors and how to get into the school gyms, etc.

 

[dk423]

The way I judge this is seeing where the program was when they were hired vs. how they left it. That's why I think Jarvis and Mahoney have to be the first two guys on the list.

 

[Ralph318!]

The way I judge this is seeing where the program was when they were hired vs. how they left it. That's why I think Jarvis and Mahoney have to be the first two guys on the list.

Some of us, including me, felt that Mark Jackson should have been the choice at one point or another. Why didn’t it ever happen?