Johnny4Life
Member
Jarvis got through the tournament with Fran's recruits. Let's remember that.
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The Eternal "Who's the Worst SJU Coach" Debate
- Thread starter L J S A
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Ray Morgan
Well-known member
Norm came here post scandal. That's a difficult starting point. He was a class act that had to do what few coaches do: recruit by the rules. The slightest wrongdoing could have sent the program, already on double secret probation, the way of Delta House.
I never believed that Norm was anything but a stopgap, hired because he was a local guy that would express his deep appreciation for a second opportunity to be a head coach by never embarrassing the university. Lavin was handed over a program five years removed from the Pittsburgh nightmare. As so it goes here, Lavin got sick and it all fell apart.
The hiring of Mullin was a desperate and poorly thought out move that no one wanted to criticize for fear of attacking the biggest star and hero the program ever had, and may ever have.
I never believed that Norm was anything but a stopgap, hired because he was a local guy that would express his deep appreciation for a second opportunity to be a head coach by never embarrassing the university. Lavin was handed over a program five years removed from the Pittsburgh nightmare. As so it goes here, Lavin got sick and it all fell apart.
The hiring of Mullin was a desperate and poorly thought out move that no one wanted to criticize for fear of attacking the biggest star and hero the program ever had, and may ever have.
Well than those people must have died shortly after Louie II because my freshmen year and Mulzoff's third and final season we ended up 19-7 with a first round NCAA T lost to Penn a game decided in final seconds. At one point late during that season we were 17-2 and ranked 9th in the nation.Knight post=458530 said:
Ray Morgan I think 6 seasons is very long for a stop gap. In fact Norm has the longest tenure of any coach since Louie.
IMHO Norm had way too many enablers in the fan base that kept him here longer than he should have been. his handling of Anthony Mason Jr killed his tenure.
IMHO Norm had way too many enablers in the fan base that kept him here longer than he should have been. his handling of Anthony Mason Jr killed his tenure.
By my Criteria the worst coach since Coach Carnesecca retired was easily Mike Jarvis.
I say this despite having had very pleasant personal interactions with him a couple of times at Belmont Park and also with him coaching by far the best team we have had here since the Lou Carnesecca glory days.
My logic for this begins and ends with where Jarvis found us when he arrived and where he left us when he left. When he arrived we were just six years removed from Coach Carnesecca's last season. It was still unclear where the program was heading long term. It was still a very hopeful time. We had just finished a season where we made the tournament for the second time in six years, won 22 games, went 13-5 in conference for second in the Big East and had a roster coming in that included Ron Artest, Erick Barkley, Bootsy Thornton, Lavor Postell, Tyone Grant and Reggie Jessie. At that point the idea that St. John's could return to their glory days was not far-fetched. No doubt that Jarvis coached his first group brilliantly and if not for Ken Johnson blocking everything under the sun in the elite eight game against Ohio State we could have won it all.
However fast forward five years under Jarvis and everything had turned bad. Our reputation had been severely damaged, our ties and relationships to local recruiting had been severed, the talent base had completely eroded and the Program had been rocked by scandal and hampered by sanctions. People can complain about the Norm Roberts years and I get it, but Norm's failed tenure was a product of coming in following Mike Jarvis's wrecking ball.
To me the job of College Basketball Coach is a multi-faceted one and goes way beyond X's and O's. The Head Coach is a shepherd of everything basketball related and that includes, recruiting, community relations, setting standards for ethics, instilling academic integrity, building up the character of the young men he guides and putting a good product on the court.
For my money Mike Anderson is everything that Mike Jarvis was not in those terms. In the end, despite his terrible won loss record and coaching deficiencies even Norm Roberts checked more of those shepherd quality boxes than Mike Jarvis did.
Hopefully we will never go down the road of sacrificing everything that makes a Program great for just the sake of attempting to get W's. If you want to look at the best Role Model for us to emulate to do this, then look no further than Lou Carnesecca who won quite a bit and did most everything the right way.
I say this despite having had very pleasant personal interactions with him a couple of times at Belmont Park and also with him coaching by far the best team we have had here since the Lou Carnesecca glory days.
My logic for this begins and ends with where Jarvis found us when he arrived and where he left us when he left. When he arrived we were just six years removed from Coach Carnesecca's last season. It was still unclear where the program was heading long term. It was still a very hopeful time. We had just finished a season where we made the tournament for the second time in six years, won 22 games, went 13-5 in conference for second in the Big East and had a roster coming in that included Ron Artest, Erick Barkley, Bootsy Thornton, Lavor Postell, Tyone Grant and Reggie Jessie. At that point the idea that St. John's could return to their glory days was not far-fetched. No doubt that Jarvis coached his first group brilliantly and if not for Ken Johnson blocking everything under the sun in the elite eight game against Ohio State we could have won it all.
However fast forward five years under Jarvis and everything had turned bad. Our reputation had been severely damaged, our ties and relationships to local recruiting had been severed, the talent base had completely eroded and the Program had been rocked by scandal and hampered by sanctions. People can complain about the Norm Roberts years and I get it, but Norm's failed tenure was a product of coming in following Mike Jarvis's wrecking ball.
To me the job of College Basketball Coach is a multi-faceted one and goes way beyond X's and O's. The Head Coach is a shepherd of everything basketball related and that includes, recruiting, community relations, setting standards for ethics, instilling academic integrity, building up the character of the young men he guides and putting a good product on the court.
For my money Mike Anderson is everything that Mike Jarvis was not in those terms. In the end, despite his terrible won loss record and coaching deficiencies even Norm Roberts checked more of those shepherd quality boxes than Mike Jarvis did.
Hopefully we will never go down the road of sacrificing everything that makes a Program great for just the sake of attempting to get W's. If you want to look at the best Role Model for us to emulate to do this, then look no further than Lou Carnesecca who won quite a bit and did most everything the right way.
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Johnny Rapper
Well-known member
Maybe I can. Mulzoff was a good coach, not a great one but he had two big issues. 1. He followed Looie, 2. On paper he had an abundance of talent, at least in the front court but his backcourt was not nearly as strong. His front court of Mel Davis, Ed Searsy and Billy Schaffer may have been one of the best, if not the best in college hoops at that time and second only to Wenningtin, Mullin Berry and Glass front line in the schools history. The expectations were extremely high but never reached due to the backcourt. I remeber the chants of “good by Frankie (Mulzoff)” in the stands. I also think that the school was aware that Looie was looking to get back into college coaching after a brief stint with the Nets which was a factor in dumping Frank Mulzoff.bamafan post=458560 said:
My opinion was due to FM’s underperforming. Searcy played after Tony Prince. Greg Cleuss, Richie Lyons and Ron Rutledge who were also members of that team. FM was a SJU grad as I recall and got the job with Louie’s blessing.
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The whole Frank Mulzoff era at SJU has a lot of mystery to it. Was he the best candidate for the job? SJU knew Looie was leaving for about a year and Mulzoff was not a top candidate and basically an unknown for a pretty good job.
Then when Looie wanted to return Mulzoff probably wasn’t treated fairly but SJU found some reasons for forcing him out. There was no way SJU wasn’t making room for Looie but it couldn’t be done smoothly because Mulzoff had been pretty successful and didn’t warrant being fired but SJU and Looie had great relationships with the press and SJU escaped without any bad press.
Then when Looie wanted to return Mulzoff probably wasn’t treated fairly but SJU found some reasons for forcing him out. There was no way SJU wasn’t making room for Looie but it couldn’t be done smoothly because Mulzoff had been pretty successful and didn’t warrant being fired but SJU and Looie had great relationships with the press and SJU escaped without any bad press.