The Eternal "Who's the Worst SJU Coach" Debate

I’m not sure what your point is. You apparently agree that McKillop is a better coach than every coach we had between Carnesecca and Pitino (and that’s not even debatable) yet you seem annoyed. The point isn’t whether or not we’d have Kadary today, but rather that the St. John’s program would have been immeasurably better and this would have been a much better job - and we wouldn’t have needed a Hall of Fame coach to perform a miracle to resuscitate it. If you’re annoyed by my mentioning that, you have my deepest and most sincere apologies.
No, I did not include FF nor did I include CMA, I only listed 3 whom I mentioned should never have been hired. I also said no other AD hired him in spite of his solid clean mid major record , so something must be missing in the eyes of those who hire basketball coaches.
We lucked into Coach Pitino for all the reasons that have been previously stated 2 years ago when he was hired. No reason forme to bring them up again and I am just thrilled he is here with us. The job was still a poor job in comparison to other Power 6 schools.
The only thing that changed was we are doing better than many of our peers in terms of NIL in this era of short term player rental. And a huge part of that is due to coach Pitino s relationships with very deep pocketed individuals.
 
Mullin sat on the scorers table so long at least we know he never had hemorrhoids

He should have been one of our best coaches ever with his basketball mind. He wasn’t cut out for coaching and was lazy recruiting and coaching. When you see Chris F’ing Mullin don’t tell me a 24 year old kid is more suitable to be running huddles. And he absolutely didn’t show up on some recruiting visits: that’s 100%
MJM I agree very often with your posts and except for what's in bold agree with this post.

Chris tried coaching, and obviously was not a natural on the sidelines. To coach in college you need a wide array of talents way beyond coaching in the pros. Recruiting takes way more time, game prep takes way more time, player development takes way more time, monitoring players academics and personal lives, etc. Chris wasn't prepared and not cut out for much of it. Nothing wrong with that. It's the reason why coaching D1 is not an entry level job.

I couldn't give a crap about where he sat. It is his gym, more than any player who played here. If Pitino wanted a throne to sit on wouldn't make him a better or worse coach.

I tried coaching. I was ok, but not cut out for it. I was certified as an IABO ref but was even worse at that. I was horrible umping high school level players in baseball.

I've been around Tim Cluess and he coached his own kids in yout ball in addition to St Marys. He is a natural, and told me he loves coaching at any level.

In terms of recruiting, most high level college coaches often only come in to close a deal. They are only super present for super blue chip players.

Greg once told me he and Chris were in lockstep about everything, and often spoke strategy late into the night almost daily. Chris delegated timeout stuff to Greg, but the optics were horrible that the HC wasn't in huddles.


All in all Chris Mullin coaching St Johns generated enormous interest. His initial press conference drew maybe 2000 people. Matt did great and is a bulldog recruiter, no doubt, but players came here for Chris. If Lovett stayed, who knows?

For all that Chris in the end got better results by year 3 (before Lovett quit) and 4 than Ewing
Almost 16 years ago the Johnnies were blown out by Syracuse at MSG by over 25 from what i recall. During the game the cheer squad threw 6th man t shiirts into the stand the Cuse fans threw the shirts back on to the garden floor and subsequently chanted Lets go Orange. The crowd was 75/25 Syracuse advantage. The chant was loud, obnoxious, deafening.

To me that single moment was the worst feeling as a lifelong sju fan,alumnus, to be embarrased, insulted and shamed on your home court was worse than the Pitt scandal and ensuing fallout.

The insult was visceral, real, in your face. Norm’s team failed to compete, it was a timid, scared, unprepared, deer in the headlights embarrasment of an effort that night and that season.

That moment crystalized how far the program had fallen more than anything else. February 24,2009 the worst moment in sju hoops history.


After that debacle Norm was able to squander another year out of SJU and the great Fr Donald J Harrington.
Norm got another year out of exasperation. They tried the loyal assistant, the up and coming mid major, the experienced "stable" guy who became and prima donna. Hiring Norm was Harrington's way of saying "I don't care so long as there aren't scandals", even as he had his own hands in a doozie of one.
 
MJM I agree very often with your posts and except for what's in bold agree with this post.

Chris tried coaching, and obviously was not a natural on the sidelines. To coach in college you need a wide array of talents way beyond coaching in the pros. Recruiting takes way more time, game prep takes way more time, player development takes way more time, monitoring players academics and personal lives, etc. Chris wasn't prepared and not cut out for much of it. Nothing wrong with that. It's the reason why coaching D1 is not an entry level job.

So why did he even accept the job in the first place if he was unsure if he'd be able to do it? Maybe he could have tested he waters as a coach at a lower level first? Also as soon as he realized he was not cut out for what most of the job required, couldn't he have stepped away?
 
So why did he even accept the job in the first place if he was unsure if he'd be able to do it? Maybe he could have tested he waters as a coach at a lower level first? Also as soon as he realized he was not cut out for what most of the job required, couldn't he have stepped away?
Chris was pursued by SJU folks, took a bite of the apple and it did not work out. Shit happens, let’s move on and enjoy our current success for as long as it lasts.
 
MJM I agree very often with your posts and except for what's in bold agree with this post.

Chris tried coaching, and obviously was not a natural on the sidelines. To coach in college you need a wide array of talents way beyond coaching in the pros. Recruiting takes way more time, game prep takes way more time, player development takes way more time, monitoring players academics and personal lives, etc. Chris wasn't prepared and not cut out for much of it. Nothing wrong with that. It's the reason why coaching D1 is not an entry level job.

I couldn't give a crap about where he sat. It is his gym, more than any player who played here. If Pitino wanted a throne to sit on wouldn't make him a better or worse coach.

I tried coaching. I was ok, but not cut out for it. I was certified as an IABO ref but was even worse at that. I was horrible umping high school level players in baseball.

I've been around Tim Cluess and he coached his own kids in yout ball in addition to St Marys. He is a natural, and told me he loves coaching at any level.

In terms of recruiting, most high level college coaches often only come in to close a deal. They are only super present for super blue chip players.

Greg once told me he and Chris were in lockstep about everything, and often spoke strategy late into the night almost daily. Chris delegated timeout stuff to Greg, but the optics were horrible that the HC wasn't in huddles.


All in all Chris Mullin coaching St Johns generated enormous interest. His initial press conference drew maybe 2000 people. Matt did great and is a bulldog recruiter, no doubt, but players came here for Chris. If Lovett stayed, who knows?

For all that Chris in the end got better results by year 3 (before Lovett quit) and 4 than Ewing

Norm got another year out of exasperation. They tried the loyal assistant, the up and coming mid major, the experienced "stable" guy who became and prima donna. Hiring Norm was Harrington's way of saying "I don't care so long as there aren't scandals", even as he had his own hands in a doozie of one.
Beast thanks for for the insight would you rate the 2/24/09 syracuse game as the lowest point in SJU Hoops history?
 
Norm got another year out of exasperation. They tried the loyal assistant, the up and coming mid major, the experienced "stable" guy who became and prima donna. Hiring Norm was Harrington's way of saying "I don't care so long as there aren't scandals", even as he had his own hands in a doozie of one.
I believe you said it best in another post.
Harrington, whom I will never criticise as he is a priest, who as you pointed out in this thread had his own hands in a few scandals, just wanted a coach who would be scandal free. Norm was smart enough to know he was never getting an opportunity like this and could not blow it. He was told from day 1, which message was given to his staff, no Problems, no scandals, and he did his best to live up to what he was told. Doherty had a much higher ceiling than Norm but a much greater chance of bringing negative attention to the program.
The Norm hire was Harrington’s way of saying I don’t care as long as there are no scandals. Fathers Harrington got what he wanted.
 
I believe you said it best in another post.
Harrington, whom I will never criticise as he is a priest, who as you pointed out in this thread had his own hands in a few scandals, just wanted a coach who would be scandal free. Norm was smart enough to know he was never getting an opportunity like this and could not blow it. He was told from day 1, which message was given to his staff, no Problems, no scandals, and he did his best to live up to what he was told. Doherty had a much higher ceiling than Norm but a much greater chance of bringing negative attention to the program.
The Norm hire was Harrington’s way of saying I don’t care as long as there are no scandals. Fathers Harrington got what he wanted.
And we as Fans, Alumni, and the Big East Conference as a brand all sufferred.
 
Again not recruiting point guard was his biggest issue
Looie loved point guards that didn't turn the ball over, shot only to keep defenses honest, and could run a half court offense. Alagia was great here. Reggie Carter was an exceptional highly recruited guy who transferred here. Tommy Calabrese fit that mold. So did Mike Moses, who fans unfairly criticize based on what Mark Jackson became from sophomore season on.
 
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