Syracuse GAME Thread

[beast of the east]

Just got back from the Garden.

Any negative talk about this game is pure nonsense. They went toe to toe with the #2 team in the country for nearly the entire game. They fell behind in the 1st half only because of poor shooting, nothing more. They fought back and had the Garden rocking. They ran out of steam at the foul line, ironic because they were 17 for 20 when Sampson stepped to the line for two.

Nothing to be embarrassed about, and plenty to look forward to. Our team is just as talented as theirs. We will be playing in March.

I didn't realize Norm was still posting here.

It was men against boys. Boy Lavin was schooled again by the Boeheim's of the world. Boy Harrison was 6 for 19.

This team has established an identity that will stick with us all year, no matter what Lavin speaks. We start weak against everyone (excluding Fordham). We wake up at some point. Then the better teams treat us like washerwomen in the final few minutes. Our three point shooting is abysmal. There are very few teams including low major that are worse. Yet, we make that the focus of our offense while keeping our one or two legitimate three point shooters on the bench. We went toe to toe with Wisconsin and Syracuse until they decided it was time for the smackdown. Plenty of boxers went toe to toe with Mike Tyson when he was in his prime. It's the outcome that matters.

35 of Mike Tyson's 50 wins were won by TKO or KO in the 6th round or before. Very few guys went toe to toe with him.

But back to the subject at hand. I wasn't sure this team was for real after beating Fordham by 46. After all, it was Fordham. Clawing back against Syracuse to take the lead late wasn't being toyed with. They legitimately looked like they belonged on the court with Syracuse. Three calls I think could have gone the other way - one of Obekpa's blocks, the three point play against Sanchez w a very questionable continuation basket could have been a charge, and then when Sampson tried to slam late and was smothered. IF 2 of those 3 calls went SJUs way, the outcome may have been different.

Finally, don't you think that it's pretty much impossible to beat a Syracuse when you aren't making outside shots? When you can't make three's they can pack it in, and its really difficult to play inside vs. Syracuse when they do that. Yet we almost overcame bad shooting from 3. I'm not upset, I'm actually confident, that if we can play like this all season, we'll be in the top 1/2 of the big east.

 

[Ray Morgan]

This was a great game to witness and only the final result was a disappointment.
Syracuse has three future NBA players on its team and Ennis and Fair were enough to beat us since both were head and shoulders better than anyone we had on the floor. I could see Ennis departing after one season as he is that good and is always under control.
This was a game where we needed Sanchez to assert himself but he preferred the role of Sancho Panza while leaving Harrison to play Don Quixote. If Harrison had a hot shooting game Syracuse would have gone down to a defeat. It was not to be as a leopard cannot change its spots so he went on to miss 2/3 of his shots.
Needless to say, the game was lost in the last 4 minutes when we turned the ball over or missed forced shots while Syracuse did all it could to hand us the game by missing most of its foul shots in the last 3 minutes.
I was surprised the game was not sold out as even the Orange fans did not buy all the available tickets but likely because they expected to win and St. John's is unranked and still not respected in its own back yard.
The St. John's fans that did show up were fantastic and loud.

As for Sanchez taking a back seat, it seems those average scoring numbers in Junior College were telling. With his size and skills, he should have been a 20-15-5 kind of player at that level. May not like the spotlight on offense, or just doesn't have the confidence. As for Harrison, his bad misses are usually the forced 3's. He can hit the wide open look from 3, just like 200 other guys in Division 1. Stick to the mid range game, D Lo. Drive, fake, and draw the foul.

 

[mjmaherjr]

Just got back from the Garden.

Any negative talk about this game is pure nonsense. They went toe to toe with the #2 team in the country for nearly the entire game. They fell behind in the 1st half only because of poor shooting, nothing more. They fought back and had the Garden rocking. They ran out of steam at the foul line, ironic because they were 17 for 20 when Sampson stepped to the line for two.

Nothing to be embarrassed about, and plenty to look forward to. Our team is just as talented as theirs. We will be playing in March.

I didn't realize Norm was still posting here.

It was men against boys. Boy Lavin was schooled again by the Boeheim's of the world. Boy Harrison was 6 for 19.

This team has established an identity that will stick with us all year, no matter what Lavin speaks. We start weak against everyone (excluding Fordham). We wake up at some point. Then the better teams treat us like washerwomen in the final few minutes. Our three point shooting is abysmal. There are very few teams including low major that are worse. Yet, we make that the focus of our offense while keeping our one or two legitimate three point shooters on the bench. We went toe to toe with Wisconsin and Syracuse until they decided it was time for the smackdown. Plenty of boxers went toe to toe with Mike Tyson when he was in his prime. It's the outcome that matters.

Newsie I agree with a lot of what you say and I'm beyond pissed we lost. This game was winnable and we went toe to toe wit them.

I didn't leave feeling like it's the end of the world. I left feeling like we could have won. If we don't get in the tourney and do damage then it's a catastrophic failure. But today I'll resign to just being pissed

 

[Class of 72]

I don't think Hooper got off a shot today . Why was he running the baseline against the three trees in the Syracuse 2-3 . Put him up toward the elbow where he would be shooting against smaller players and getting more touches

He didn't do a good job of getting open for a shot, which as you pointed out, is not going to happen with him running the baseline. He needs Branch or Jordan in the game with him so someone is looking to get him the ball, but if he can't get free, he need to sit. He'll get better as we go, but is still searching for his role.

Hooper played 3:30 in the first half and 4 for the game. He was open 3 times in that span of the first half and Harrsion avoided him like the white plague and forced two misses of his own rather than pass to Hoop. The other time he was open Pointer threw the ball out of bounds two feet away from the open Hooper. Lavin put him in to take a 3 point shot....the guys that saw him as invisible should have sat at that point. As a result of ignoring him, SJ went from down 7 to down 12 in that span.
BTW, I gave you a -Karma for calling a fellow fan a Jacka*s!

Not sure what game you were watching, but he was not open. And as for your last comment, "fan" is an interesting choice of words for some on this Board. By the way, reducing Karma for calling out others who do nothing but dish out constant negativity is puzzling, don't you think?

My only assumption is that you were somewhere up in the cheap seats while I was at court side but I suggest that rather than speak out of your arse as you usually do here you watch the last 4 minutes of the first half and pay attention. Dumping on a kid that played 4 minutes is deflecting the blame from the passers. Tyler Ennis had the ball in his hands most possessions for Cuse and he knew when to pass and when to shoot. That was the game.

 

[Marillac]

Sanchez was very disappointing tonight. He got baked time after time off the dribble by Fair and Grant, showing why he has no shot in the NBA. For a high IQ guy he sure does pick up a ton of horrible fouls every game, doesn't he? This was a game he could have shined, but, outside of a handful of plays, he was overmatched.

Sampson and Pointer make some truly exceptional plays, but they seem to make some really bone-headed plays against good teams late. Sampson's two misses in a row sealed the deal on this game. I feel like our opponents have similar type guys (Grant for instance) that know when to defer to more skilled teammates late and are more aware of their limitations.

There was a point in the game we had it within four and Lavin had a lineup of Sampson-Pointer-Obekpa-Green-Branch (maybe Jordan) out there and I thought--probably like everyone else--who the hell is going to score? The lead swelled to ten quickly and Lav had to call a t.o. to regroup.

Very impressed with Jordan. Very upset with Branch. Time to hand the frosh the keys to the car and live and die with what he gives us. We'll be better in March because of it.

 

[Class of 72]

Just got back from the Garden.

Any negative talk about this game is pure nonsense. They went toe to toe with the #2 team in the country for nearly the entire game. They fell behind in the 1st half only because of poor shooting, nothing more. They fought back and had the Garden rocking. They ran out of steam at the foul line, ironic because they were 17 for 20 when Sampson stepped to the line for two.

Nothing to be embarrassed about, and plenty to look forward to. Our team is just as talented as theirs. We will be playing in March.

I didn't realize Norm was still posting here.

It was men against boys. Boy Lavin was schooled again by the Boeheim's of the world. Boy Harrison was 6 for 19.

This team has established an identity that will stick with us all year, no matter what Lavin speaks. We start weak against everyone (excluding Fordham). We wake up at some point. Then the better teams treat us like washerwomen in the final few minutes. Our three point shooting is abysmal. There are very few teams including low major that are worse. Yet, we make that the focus of our offense while keeping our one or two legitimate three point shooters on the bench. We went toe to toe with Wisconsin and Syracuse until they decided it was time for the smackdown. Plenty of boxers went toe to toe with Mike Tyson when he was in his prime. It's the outcome that matters.

!
The better teams likely fear us in the last few minutes when we wake up.
We never went toe to toe with Wisconsin as they had our number from the tip and we never challenged. The Penn State loss was in overtime and we were just as good as Syracuse today and I do agree with you regarding our 3 point shooting which is not our strenght but our Achilles heel. Today, shooting close to 0%, sealed our fate. The absolute lack of using both Marco and Hooper is sad but I think Lavin has no clue as to how or when to use them and prefers Harrison hoisting prayers than actually designing plays for specialists. Two more made foul shots and two more threes and we win going away.

 

[Jnaw17]

I don't think Hooper got off a shot today . Why was he running the baseline against the three trees in the Syracuse 2-3 . Put him up toward the elbow where he would be shooting against smaller players and getting more touches

He didn't do a good job of getting open for a shot, which as you pointed out, is not going to happen with him running the baseline. He needs Branch or Jordan in the game with him so someone is looking to get him the ball, but if he can't get free, he need to sit. He'll get better as we go, but is still searching for his role.

Hooper played 3:30 in the first half and 4 for the game. He was open 3 times in that span of the first half and Harrsion avoided him like the white plague and forced two misses of his own rather than pass to Hoop. The other time he was open Pointer threw the ball out of bounds two feet away from the open Hooper. Lavin put him in to take a 3 point shot....the guys that saw him as invisible should have sat at that point. As a result of ignoring him, SJ went from down 7 to down 12 in that span.
BTW, I gave you a -Karma for calling a fellow fan a Jacka*s!

Not sure what game you were watching, but he was not open. And as for your last comment, "fan" is an interesting choice of words for some on this Board. By the way, reducing Karma for calling out others who do nothing but dish out constant negativity is puzzling, don't you think?

My only assumption is that you were somewhere up in the cheap seats while I was at court side but I suggest that rather than speak out of your arse as you usually do here you watch the last 4 minutes of the first half and pay attention. Dumping on a kid that played 4 minutes is deflecting the blame from the passers. Tyler Ennis had the ball in his hands most possessions for Cuse and he knew when to pass and when to shoot. That was the game.

Give it a rest. I didn't dump on the kid, just pointed out why he didn't play many minutes. And, your assumption is wrong, but that's nothing new.

 

[TX Redman]

Attendance - 16,357

60-65% Orange

You would never have guessed watching it on TV, seem like 70-30 SJU and the Redmen crowd was definitely louder.

Those at the game missed the brilliance that is Gus Johnson:

"Steve Lavin. Head Coach. St. John's. Four Years."


Thought we had it with 4 mins left when the momentun was in our favor but the missed FTs and abysmal shooting from 3 point land undermined what was otherwise a commendable effort.

 

[otis]

72
What information do you have that either Marco or Hooper could help St.John's?

Marco was no help last season. Hooper has been a non factor at the2 college he has attended including against the slow non scholarship players in the Ivy League.

 

[Andrew]

72
What information do you have that either Marco or Hooper could help St.John's?

Marco was no help last season. Hooper has been a non factor at the2 college he has attended including against the slow non scholarship players in the Ivy League.

Lavin recruited him for a reason. He is shooting 39% from 3. I don't expect him to be playing 35 minutes but I really think that he can give us an edge at times against a packed in zone.

 

[Class of 72]

72
What information do you have that either Marco or Hooper could help St.John's?

Marco was no help last season. Hooper has been a non factor at the2 college he has attended including against the slow non scholarship players in the Ivy League.

OTIS,
If you speak to any of the players or staff they would tell you that M&M are the best shooters on the team with the best form in their outside shot. Marco barely played last year so if you think you can help the team playing 3 minutes, God bless you. He made a huge mistake coming to SJ.
Given space, there is no better shooter than Max but he would need a minimum of 15 minutes and 10 shots to be valuable and make up for his defense. That is not going to happen on this team. This is the same kid that hit 10 of 11 3s in Europe and also would have done better in a different offense. As for Harvard, they were a nationally ranked team last year and likely would have beaten us 9 of 10 games last year. The Ivy is very underrated because those kids are all coachable and very fine shooters.
Back to Marco, last week he hit his 3 treys and the starters on the bench were joking and laughing but there was nothing funny about it. Most of those guys laughing cannot shoot like that.

 

[T6K0E6]

We shot 7% from the 3 today, 7%!!!! If we bump that up to 20-25% we win the game, plain and simple.

That being said I was at the game and what a great game to be at, I saw the crowd at 50/50 and when we were up and on a roll you felt it.

I am still disappointed with the outcome but I see us going far come march. No moral victories but learn from every game.

 

[SJUalum98]

I will be in the minority I suppose but 16 minutes of great basketball and 24 minutes of well, ugh...doesn't get me charged up. We make a great comeback from a deficit we should probably never have been in and then play clueless on offense for the last 4 minutes to come away with yet another almost. Sorry, it leaves me nothing but disappointed and frustrated. I give credit where it is due and the team made a great comeback but they are far enough along where they should at least maintain the good play until the end, win or lose. The Cuse goes to Fair down the stretch, no question, SJU reverts back to passing around the perimeter and poking and hoping. Sanchez seemed afraid to assert himself down the stretch and Harrison got back to trying to do it by himself. For those who say I am being too negative I apologize but I didn't need another moral victory; I already knew we had talent but I have expectations that talent will translate into something real.

Your right about being disappointed. We lose to Penn. St. and the Cuse. We don't have not a one quality win. Right now we are not a NCAA team, and that was the goal. How can you not be disappointed?

If the season ended tosay, we would be a tournament team. If you can't accept a loss to the #2 team in the country, then you have to believe that we are #1. I'm disappointed but anyone who acts like this is an unacceptable loss is full of crap! (same goes for the Wisconsin loss)

Not according to Joe Lunardi.

People have to be realistic here. Teams don't make the tourney based on moral victories and how hard you hung with Top 25 teams.

If the season ended today, we'd be one of the top seeds in the NIT. That is just plain reality.

Thankfully, it is still just December.

We needed a signature OOC win this season. We're not going to get it. If Lavin loaded up on a tougher OOC schedule this year, I think everyone here believes we would get one. Skip Wagner and schedule a Maryland (UA connection). Skip San Fran and schedule a Cal.

Best hope is that we get 4 wins out of 6 games vs Villanova, Georgetown and Creighton who should all be ranked. And that we don't drop any games vs Seton Hall and DePaul (we MUST sweep both teams).

 

[Moose]

Attendance - 16,357

60-65% Orange

You would never have guessed watching it on TV, seem like 70-30 SJU and the Redmen crowd was definitely louder.

Those at the game missed the brilliance that is Gus Johnson:

"Steve Lavin. Head Coach. St. John's. Four Years."


Thought we had it with 4 mins left when the momentun was in our favor but the missed FTs and abysmal shooting from 3 point land undermined what was otherwise a commendable effort.

What was Gus trying to say with that? Not following

 

[redman#13]

Great crowd at the Garden today. All the Orange fans around me were nervous that second half, you could see it in their faces. I even heard some fans say "Damm these guys are good". We beat the Orange if we see them again.

Star players make plays = CJ FAIR.
To me the kid could help a team in the league immediately. This is what STJ is missing, a guy who can come down and hit clutch shots with someone in their face. Kid came down the court and hit those shots with all the confidence in the world. Dom was draped all over him and he managed to make the shots.

CJ and the missed FT did us in. All and all very encouraged with the teams effort, we still have work to do but i feel confident going into BE play.

Let's not leave it up to the committee to select us or not on selection sunday. WIN THE BIG EAST REGULAR SEASON AND TOURNEY!! To me doing both is not far fetched.

GO ST.JOHN'S

 

[Andrew]

I will be in the minority I suppose but 16 minutes of great basketball and 24 minutes of well, ugh...doesn't get me charged up. We make a great comeback from a deficit we should probably never have been in and then play clueless on offense for the last 4 minutes to come away with yet another almost. Sorry, it leaves me nothing but disappointed and frustrated. I give credit where it is due and the team made a great comeback but they are far enough along where they should at least maintain the good play until the end, win or lose. The Cuse goes to Fair down the stretch, no question, SJU reverts back to passing around the perimeter and poking and hoping. Sanchez seemed afraid to assert himself down the stretch and Harrison got back to trying to do it by himself. For those who say I am being too negative I apologize but I didn't need another moral victory; I already knew we had talent but I have expectations that talent will translate into something real.

Your right about being disappointed. We lose to Penn. St. and the Cuse. We don't have not a one quality win. Right now we are not a NCAA team, and that was the goal. How can you not be disappointed?

If the season ended tosay, we would be a tournament team. If you can't accept a loss to the #2 team in the country, then you have to believe that we are #1. I'm disappointed but anyone who acts like this is an unacceptable loss is full of crap! (same goes for the Wisconsin loss)

Not according to Joe Lunardi.

People have to be realistic here. Teams don't make the tourney based on moral victories and how hard you hung with Top 25 teams.

If the season ended today, we'd be one of the top seeds in the NIT. That is just plain reality.

Thankfully, it is still just December.

We needed a signature OOC win this season. We're not going to get it. If Lavin loaded up on a tougher OOC schedule this year, I think everyone here believes we would get one. Skip Wagner and schedule a Maryland (UA connection). Skip San Fran and schedule a Cal.

Best hope is that we get 4 wins out of 6 games vs Villanova, Georgetown and Creighton who should all be ranked. And that we don't drop any games vs Seton Hall and DePaul (we MUST sweep both teams).

Couldn't agree more. We need to sweep the last four out of conference as well. Would like to finish the season 22-9 to avoid any surprises. Butler, Providence, Marquette and Xavier are all good teams as well.

 

[salty dog]

Just got back from the Garden.

Any negative talk about this game is pure nonsense. They went toe to toe with the #2 team in the country for nearly the entire game. They fell behind in the 1st half only because of poor shooting, nothing more. They fought back and had the Garden rocking. They ran out of steam at the foul line, ironic because they were 17 for 20 when Sampson stepped to the line for two.

Nothing to be embarrassed about, and plenty to look forward to. Our team is just as talented as theirs. We will be playing in March.

I didn't realize Norm was still posting here.

It was men against boys. Boy Lavin was schooled again by the Boeheim's of the world. Boy Harrison was 6 for 19.

This team has established an identity that will stick with us all year, no matter what Lavin speaks. We start weak against everyone (excluding Fordham). We wake up at some point. Then the better teams treat us like washerwomen in the final few minutes. Our three point shooting is abysmal. There are very few teams including low major that are worse. Yet, we make that the focus of our offense while keeping our one or two legitimate three point shooters on the bench. We went toe to toe with Wisconsin and Syracuse until they decided it was time for the smackdown. Plenty of boxers went toe to toe with Mike Tyson when he was in his prime. It's the outcome that matters.

Newsie, you're off on this one. Their was nothing smackdown about this loss. CJ Fair hit two huge jumpers down the stretch, on the baseline, and that was the game when the Johnnie's didn't respond on the foul line. I thought Sanchez' miss on the three point play was big and the wide open missed three when we were up 2.
We needed some cushion to resist a used to winning Cuse team led by a HOF coach.

 

[salty dog]

72
What information do you have that either Marco or Hooper could help St.John's?

Marco was no help last season. Hooper has been a non factor at the2 college he has attended including against the slow non scholarship players in the Ivy League.

OTIS,
If you speak to any of the players or staff they would tell you that M&M are the best shooters on the team with the best form in their outside shot. Marco barely played last year so if you think you can help the team playing 3 minutes, God bless you. He made a huge mistake coming to SJ.
Given space, there is no better shooter than Max but he would need a minimum of 15 minutes and 10 shots to be valuable and make up for his defense. That is not going to happen on this team. This is the same kid that hit 10 of 11 3s in Europe and also would have done better in a different offense. As for Harvard, they were a nationally ranked team last year and likely would have beaten us 9 of 10 games last year. The Ivy is very underrated because those kids are all coachable and very fine shooters.
Back to Marco, last week he hit his 3 treys and the starters on the bench were joking and laughing but there was nothing funny about it. Most of those guys laughing cannot shoot like that.

Ivy team Princeton took care of Penn State.

 

[salty dog]

Has anybody mentioned the great job done on Cooley today. The kid had been on fire and he did nothing. I think Lavin really addressed that and it worked.
Syracuse was terrible from three today. Most Cuse fans I was sitting near were very surprised.

 

[tim23red]

I was at the game . . .

Can we stop being so freaking Mom and Pop - seriously we can't get a better sponsor than Ridgewood and their stupid win a 25 dollar prize really? Can the pep band get some real music? Can Flagboy not be out of breath after 4 Laps? What was the deal with the trumpet player?

I understand trying the We Are New York song- Crowd didn't respond to it at all. Why is the garden announcer calling the game like both teams are the home team?

As for the game . . . Harrison played a great second half, really loved some of the teams passing today. Team played another half of game - need a full 40 minutes. I know that is not earth shattering. But with three wins to end the OCS the team is 9 - 3, perhaps 10 -2 was what we as fans had hoped for. This team will make the NCAAs. win two wins against Providence, Seton Hall and DePaul Splits with the rest (going 12-6) in conference or 21 -19 overall. That being said a 6 seed in the tourney!