Syracuse GAME Thread

I was at the game . . .

Can we stop being so freaking Mom and Pop - seriously we can't get a better sponsor than Ridgewood and their stupid win a 25 dollar prize really? Can the pep band get some real music? Can Flagboy not be out of breath after 4 Laps? What was the deal with the trumpet player?
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haaaaaaaaaaa. the $25 prize was insane. we couldn't believe it when we heard it. jesus it wouls sound better if the school just bought him a group on to a pizza
 
Given space, there is no better shooter than Max but he would need a minimum of 15 minutes and 10 shots to be valuable and make up for his defense.
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Hey 72
You are entitled to your opinion that Max is a game changer but your opinion is not shared by those that make livings from evaluating college talent (i) those that gave him a 2** ranking out of high school, (ii) all major and mid level coaches that did not recruit him out of a high profile prep program, (iii) tommy Amaker who did not give him any time at non scholarship Harvard, and (v) now Steve Lavin.

I am not attempting to insult or slight Max but there is nothing whatsoever in his background, to support the fantasy which the Max Hooper fan-club preaches.

On the bright side, Hooper has 2 years eligibility and given his height and wing span he may develop into a nice player but your suggestion that he should get a "minimum of 15 minutes" playing time is not supported by facts.

72, if you ever played any form of high school or college basketball you would understand that merely because someone can stand unguarded and make shots does not mean that they can pass, rebound, play defense and have the foot speed and lateral movements to contribute at the Big East level.
 
As stated in so many different ways on this board, yesterday's game was heartbreaking for the moment but encouraging for the long run. More then anything, it is great to see SJU compete physically with Syracuse. In years past it looked like men against boys, Sunday we actually looked like there equal physically. A testament to our recruiting over the last few years. Sampson, Obekpa, Sanchez, Pointer and Jordan all have big time D1 bodies and athleticism. If we had not shot like crap and played so damn tentative for the first 20 minutes, we would have spanked them. Hopefully, we get our chance again...kudos also to our student sections, although the overall crowd was 60-40 Cuse, our student sections were loud and carried the arena when we got on our run. Also, is there anyplace better then MSG when it is rocking!! Onward....
 
IMHO there were two things that made a difference in the game. First, Syracuse came into the game knowing who they were and what they could do, whereas we didn't decide we could play with them until the start of the second half. Second, in the last four minutes Syracuse had a plan and executed it, while we resorted to one-on-one play (really one-on-three more than once).

On the plus side the staff clearly came in with game plans for offense and defense. I didn't love the offensive game plan (every entry pass to the foul line and every diagonal skip pass looked like a disaster waiting to happen, but somehow they all worked out) but it worked well enough. The same is true of defense, though IMHO Dom should have started (over my guy Phil) and been matched on on Fair the whole way instead of trying out Sanchez and Jordan and whomever else took a shot at him before Dom got in the game.

The shorter bench also helped, though I might have tried to steal a few minutes for Gift when we had foul trouble (though again we got away with it) and Phil should've gotten a little time in the second half, probably resting Harrison.

At this point two of our three losses are to teams in the top 5, which isn't anything to be ashamed of. Hopefully the staff can correct the slow starts by having the team better prepared and more confident in their identity, roles and plan. That should also help in crunch time if it builds confidence in executing the game plan as a team instead of devolving to "every man for himself."

I actually agree with Lavin-speak that it is a learning process for this team, and yesterday's game was hopefully a good education for them.
 
I will be in the minority I suppose but 16 minutes of great basketball and 24 minutes of well, ugh...doesn't get me charged up. We make a great comeback from a deficit we should probably never have been in and then play clueless on offense for the last 4 minutes to come away with yet another almost. Sorry, it leaves me nothing but disappointed and frustrated. I give credit where it is due and the team made a great comeback but they are far enough along where they should at least maintain the good play until the end, win or lose. The Cuse goes to Fair down the stretch, no question, SJU reverts back to passing around the perimeter and poking and hoping. Sanchez seemed afraid to assert himself down the stretch and Harrison got back to trying to do it by himself. For those who say I am being too negative I apologize but I didn't need another moral victory; I already knew we had talent but I have expectations that talent will translate into something real.
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Your right about being disappointed. We lose to Penn. St. and the Cuse. We don't have not a one quality win. Right now we are not a NCAA team, and that was the goal. How can you not be disappointed?
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If the season ended tosay, we would be a tournament team. If you can't accept a loss to the #2 team in the country, then you have to believe that we are #1. I'm disappointed but anyone who acts like this is an unacceptable loss is full of crap! (same goes for the Wisconsin loss)
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Not according to Joe Lunardi.

People have to be realistic here. Teams don't make the tourney based on moral victories and how hard you hung with Top 25 teams.

If the season ended today, we'd be one of the top seeds in the NIT. That is just plain reality.

Thankfully, it is still just December.

We needed a signature OOC win this season. We're not going to get it. If Lavin loaded up on a tougher OOC schedule this year, I think everyone here believes we would get one. Skip Wagner and schedule a Maryland (UA connection). Skip San Fran and schedule a Cal.

Best hope is that we get 4 wins out of 6 games vs Villanova, Georgetown and Creighton who should all be ranked. And that we don't drop any games vs Seton Hall and DePaul (we MUST sweep both teams).
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Spot on post.
 
Pretty much everything has been said at this point. The only thing I will add is how good if a job Harrison did on Cooley. I really liked the shortened bench but perhaps Harrison and Sampson were a tad too tied at the end.

And most importantly it was a pleasure to meet goldenleaf and his son.
 
I was at the game . . .

Can we stop being so freaking Mom and Pop - seriously we can't get a better sponsor than Ridgewood and their stupid win a 25 dollar prize really? Can the pep band get some real music? Can Flagboy not be out of breath after 4 Laps? What was the deal with the trumpet player?
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I'm sure Chase and Wells Fargo are dying to sponsor SJU hoops :)
 
Given space, there is no better shooter than Max but he would need a minimum of 15 minutes and 10 shots to be valuable and make up for his defense.
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72, if you ever played any form of high school or college basketball you would understand that merely because someone can stand unguarded and make shots does not mean that they can pass, rebound, play defense and have the foot speed and lateral movements to contribute at the Big East level.
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You just described half of the team! Max was brought on to be a role player and roomie to Karr! On a Bucknell or Lehigh he would be playing 20 minutes and scoring 15 a game against SJ. He is in the wrong system as is Marco. As for his roomie, any time Jakarr puts the ball on the floor around the hoop nothing good happens and that is what separates us from Syracuse and a C.J. Fair. He should be in Tafner studying Hooper's form and dribbling from Jordan.
 
Pretty much everything has been said at this point. The only thing I will add is how good if a job Harrison did on Cooley. I really liked the shortened bench but perhaps Harrison and Sampson were a tad too tied at the end.

And most importantly it was a pleasure to meet goldenleaf and his son.
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are you having flashbacks to when we used to play BC? LOL!
 
I was at the game . . .

Can we stop being so freaking Mom and Pop - seriously we can't get a better sponsor than Ridgewood and their stupid win a 25 dollar prize really? Can the pep band get some real music? Can Flagboy not be out of breath after 4 Laps? What was the deal with the trumpet player?
Click to expand...

I'm sure Chase and Wells Fargo are dying to sponsor SJU hoops :)
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Whats Ridgwood?
 
Pretty much everything has been said at this point. The only thing I will add is how good if a job Harrison did on Cooley. I really liked the shortened bench but perhaps Harrison and Sampson were a tad too tied at the end.

And most importantly it was a pleasure to meet goldenleaf and his son.
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are you having flashbacks to when we used to play BC? LOL!
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ND
 
Pretty much everything has been said at this point. The only thing I will add is how good if a job Harrison did on Cooley. I really liked the shortened bench but perhaps Harrison and Sampson were a tad too tied at the end.

And most importantly it was a pleasure to meet goldenleaf and his son.
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Except that Sampson spent quite a bit of the 2nd half on the bench in foul trouble.
 
Pretty much everything has been said at this point. The only thing I will add is how good if a job Harrison did on Cooley. I really liked the shortened bench but perhaps Harrison and Sampson were a tad too tied at the end.

And most importantly it was a pleasure to meet goldenleaf and his son.
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Except that Sampson spent quite a bit of the 2nd half on the bench in foul trouble.
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He also spent the last 3 minutes of the game playing like Wild Bill and Harrison was no better in the chucking department. There was no team ball in that span.


3:19 62-60 D'Angelo Harrison missed Jumper.
3:14 62-60 JaKarr Sampson missed Jumper.
3:14 62-60 D'Angelo Harrison missed Jumper.
3:14 62-60 JaKarr Sampson missed Free Throw.
3:14 62-60 JaKarr Sampson missed Free Throw.
2:31 64-60 D'Angelo Harrison missed Jumper.
2:01 64-60 D'Angelo Harrison missed Free Throw.
1:21    66-61           Sampson Turnover.
0:44 66-61          Orlando Sanchez Turnover.
0:33 68-61  Sampson missed Layup.
0:07 68-63 D'Angelo Harrison missed Three Point Jumper.
 
Pretty much everything has been said at this point. The only thing I will add is how good if a job Harrison did on Cooley. I really liked the shortened bench but perhaps Harrison and Sampson were a tad too tied at the end.

And most importantly it was a pleasure to meet goldenleaf and his son.
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are you having flashbacks to when we used to play BC? LOL!
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ND
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Correct. Meant ND but the old noodle wandered.
 
The optimist in me sees a parallel

Dec. 30, 1992. A few weeks after losing to Fordham at Rose Hill, St. John's narrowly loses to No. 3 Kentucky in a back and forth game that no one gave them a chance. The close loss gives the team a boost of confidence and propels them to an improbable and memorable regular season behind David Cain finishing No. 2 in the Big East (preseason No. 9) and No. 5 seed in the NCAAs (eventually losing in Rd 2 to the Arkansas juggernaut).
 
One of the rites of passage here after a loss is to break down every aspect of the team, from what Lavin fed the team for breakfast (easy on the gluten), to how many times a player had to take a dump (too many #2's means a player is having pre game anxiety, right?).

So I guess it is only the next logical step in the evolution of the redmen.com man to question the worthiness of the sponsors.
 
Given space, there is no better shooter than Max but he would need a minimum of 15 minutes and 10 shots to be valuable and make up for his defense.
Click to expand...

Hey 72
You are entitled to your opinion that Max is a game changer but your opinion is not shared by those that make livings from evaluating college talent (i) those that gave him a 2** ranking out of high school, (ii) all major and mid level coaches that did not recruit him out of a high profile prep program, (iii) tommy Amaker who did not give him any time at non scholarship Harvard, and (v) now Steve Lavin.

I am not attempting to insult or slight Max but there is nothing whatsoever in his background, to support the fantasy which the Max Hooper fan-club preaches.

On the bright side, Hooper has 2 years eligibility and given his height and wing span he may develop into a nice player but your suggestion that he should get a "minimum of 15 minutes" playing time is not supported by facts.

72, if you ever played any form of high school or college basketball you would understand that merely because someone can stand unguarded and make shots does not mean that they can pass, rebound, play defense and have the foot speed and lateral movements to contribute at the Big East level.
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Your comments have validity.. However, the question was raised before , if Hooper or Marco, don't possess BE talent, then why are they on the team? And, when you shoot 1-15 from 3pt range, maybe Max could make a couple of shots from the line? I mean no one else on this team can claim any status as a sharpshooter.. Not Harrison, Not Greene. No ONE..Max can't clang them any worse than the other players.
The college game today demands some sort of a 3 pt threat and the ability to shoot a reasonable % from that distance.. We haven't had it since Hardy and is a big reason this team is easily defended.

No one expects the shooter to excel in all facets of the game. but every team needs at least 1 marksman. NOva has 5, count em, 5 3pt capable shooters.
 
Just got back from the Garden.

Any negative talk about this game is pure nonsense. They went toe to toe with the #2 team in the country for nearly the entire game. They fell behind in the 1st half only because of poor shooting, nothing more. They fought back and had the Garden rocking. They ran out of steam at the foul line, ironic because they were 17 for 20 when Sampson stepped to the line for two.

Nothing to be embarrassed about, and plenty to look forward to. Our team is just as talented as theirs. We will be playing in March.
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I didn't realize Norm was still posting here.

It was men against boys. Boy Lavin was schooled again by the Boeheim's of the world. Boy Harrison was 6 for 19.

This team has established an identity that will stick with us all year, no matter what Lavin speaks. We start weak against everyone (excluding Fordham). We wake up at some point. Then the better teams treat us like washerwomen in the final few minutes. Our three point shooting is abysmal. There are very few teams including low major that are worse. Yet, we make that the focus of our offense while keeping our one or two legitimate three point shooters on the bench. We went toe to toe with Wisconsin and Syracuse until they decided it was time for the smackdown. Plenty of boxers went toe to toe with Mike Tyson when he was in his prime. It's the outcome that matters.
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35 of Mike Tyson's 50 wins were won by TKO or KO in the 6th round or before. Very few guys went toe to toe with him.

But back to the subject at hand. I wasn't sure this team was for real after beating Fordham by 46. After all, it was Fordham. Clawing back against Syracuse to take the lead late wasn't being toyed with. They legitimately looked like they belonged on the court with Syracuse. Three calls I think could have gone the other way - one of Obekpa's blocks, the three point play against Sanchez w a very questionable continuation basket could have been a charge, and then when Sampson tried to slam late and was smothered. IF 2 of those 3 calls went SJUs way, the outcome may have been different.

Finally, don't you think that it's pretty much impossible to beat a Syracuse when you aren't making outside shots? When you can't make three's they can pack it in, and its really difficult to play inside vs. Syracuse when they do that. Yet we almost overcame bad shooting from 3. I'm not upset, I'm actually confident, that if we can play like this all season, we'll be in the top 1/2 of the big east.
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Those boxers went toe to toe with Tyson in the sixth round or before with the outcome coming earlier.

I can understand the optimism many of you have after watching most of the second half. My problem is that every team shows a pattern. Our pattern has been our Achilles. We get down early to the crappiest teams. We rally. We lose to the majors. We have horrendous three point shooters with the exception of Marco and Max yet we insist on making three point attempts a major part of our offense. I think we have to change the pattern. I'm not lobbying for Marco or Max, even though there are no other players on the team who can come close to shooting with them. Please don't give me the "white guys can't play D" mantra. Syracuse was over 50 percent with M&M on the bench. Let them sit, but take the three point shot out of the offense.

As far as being in the top half of the Big East; that may not be enough to take us to the dance. In case you haven't noticed, the conference isn't nearly what it used to be. I'm confident if we lose the three point shot and play hard for 40 minutes, we can win the whole thing. I'm just not confident we can do that.
 
The optimist in me sees a parallel

Dec. 30, 1992. A few weeks after losing to Fordham at Rose Hill, St. John's narrowly loses to No. 3 Kentucky in a back and forth game that no one gave them a chance. The close loss gives the team a boost of confidence and propels them to an improbable and memorable regular season behind David Cain finishing No. 2 in the Big East (preseason No. 9) and No. 5 seed in the NCAAs (eventually losing in Rd 2 to the Arkansas juggernaut).
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We're always losing to juggernauts. I was hoping by the time Harrison etal were juniors, we'd be the juggernaut.
 
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