Syracuse and the Garden

[MCNPA]

The conundrum is that Syracuse and their fans fill the Garden. Like it or not, our long term prospects are directly tied to our ability to sell tickets, pay good coaches and recruit talent. I can't stand Syracuse. I frankly think they are the most despicable team in the history of our league. A founding member of the Big East that was responsible for killing our league. Public enemy#1.

That said, we have to schedule them at the Garden every year if we can. Rivalries like that create bad blood, sell tickets and make for exciting basketball. They also pay the bills. We just have to make it a real rivalry and start beating them once in a while. Until they stop selling out the Garden, we will schedule them and as much as I don't like it, it is probably a good idea.

 

[Zeeman]

If we are in the drivers seat with teams wanting to play in MSG and we don't have to contract for the normal 1 home, 1 away arrangment I think getting an extra home game is a nice perk. How about if we schedule Syracuse and Uconn every other year. Give them 1/2 a loaf. With not having to play them on the road we could look to schedule an away for a special opponent or television. We have kids from all over now. How about Texas/Baylor for dlo & Branch. Indiana, Kentucky, UCLA. With those teams we could get a 1 & 1 arrangment and we would get a second premiere OOC on the MSG schedule Two home, 1 away each year with marquis opponents. Good in theory.

 

[MCNPA]

If we are in the drivers seat with teams wanting to play in MSG and we don't have to contract for the normal 1 home, 1 away arrangment I think getting an extra home game is a nice perk. How about if we schedule Syracuse and Uconn every other year. Give them 1/2 a loaf. With not having to play them on the road we could look to schedule an away for a special opponent or television. We have kids from all over now. How about Texas/Baylor for dlo & Branch. Indiana, Kentucky, UCLA. With those teams we could get a 1 & 1 arrangment and we would get a second premiere OOC on the MSG schedule Two home, 1 away each year with marquis opponents. Good in theory.

Agree. Alternating uconn and Cuse a good idea. Don't give em quite as much access as every year but fill seats nonetheless.

 

[beast of the east]

In my first entrepreneurial endeavor I encountered a disagreement that had to be hammered out in small claims court. Represented by a mature, older, competent attorney, he gave me the following advice that has resonated for years:

"Always act in your own best interests, not in the worst interests of your adversary."

Using that as a yardstick I cannot come to a clear decision in my mind on how to go forward. I do not want to help Syracuse even one bit, and would prefer them to rue the day they abandoned the Big East for more cash. Right now, city kids could count on playing in front of NYC friends and family for 3-4 games a year as a Syracuse player.


Having said that, I know SJU looks at the small picture, the sure fire cash that a sellout home game at the Garden vs. Syracuse would generate, which helps fund the team. As much as most of us would say, screw that, in another thread we are ticked that Garden sales for Gtown and others are so weak we've already slashed prices by 50%.

Plenty of other teams would love to come to the Garden and sell it out besides Cuse.
Dangle that carrot to those schools. Not Cuse.

Moose, off hand I can't think of a school who would come in and play us every other year and pack the Garden without question. Syracuse - SJU is the best bet on our schedule for a sellout. I'm sure that was the primary consideration in keeping them on our schedule.

Duke
UNC
Kentucky
Uconn

All four I'd gladly play before Cuse.

And if creating a home court disadvantage at the price of a sellout is what the admin wants, then they need to look in the mirror long and hard.

I would agree with Duke but they've proved it only anedotally (not year in year out), and they draw more SJU fans than Cuse does. UCONN of course is true, but Syracuse probably does better and buys every friggin seat. I'm unconvinced they Kentucky and UNC would do the same consistently.

 

[beast of the east]

In my first entrepreneurial endeavor I encountered a disagreement that had to be hammered out in small claims court. Represented by a mature, older, competent attorney, he gave me the following advice that has resonated for years:

"Always act in your own best interests, not in the worst interests of your adversary."

Using that as a yardstick I cannot come to a clear decision in my mind on how to go forward. I do not want to help Syracuse even one bit, and would prefer them to rue the day they abandoned the Big East for more cash. Right now, city kids could count on playing in front of NYC friends and family for 3-4 games a year as a Syracuse player.


Having said that, I know SJU looks at the small picture, the sure fire cash that a sellout home game at the Garden vs. Syracuse would generate, which helps fund the team. As much as most of us would say, screw that, in another thread we are ticked that Garden sales for Gtown and others are so weak we've already slashed prices by 50%.

Why would you quote your attorney's advice and than not follow it?

There are long views and short views. The short view is the revenue one game brings in. The long view is to make them irrelevant in NYS and make their fans watch Garden games that have no local flavor, and attract little attention in the City. In the long view, a locally irrelevant Syracuse can't recruit NYC as well as before. For one week a year the Big East tournament dominated the papers, and even when they are up and we are down, Syracuse fans love it when they pound SJU. I think I favor the long view, which would allow Lavin to recruit better locally with syracuse diminished.

 

[oldfan61]

Does anyone actually know that the administration, which is being pummeled here as usual, or Coach, or Chris M. has actually made a comittment for a long term MSG game for Syr? Has it been published or is this another straw horse story?
When Al McGuire coached Marquette we started schedueling them regularly until we noticed that it wasn't in our best interests. If we beat them, it was expected. No big deal! If they snuck out a win it was a major national upset on the back page of the papers the next day. Regardless of what happened, smooth talking Al would fete our recruits along with a bunch of other locals while he was here, without conscience, and occasionally snag a kid or two. That was the definition of "no win situation". We stopped schedueling the Warriors at the time.
Like Syr. they were good but weren't the best. Why play a guy who can only hurt you when you have Ky, Kan.,NC, Duke, UCLA, Gonzaga, Butler etc who could draw a crowd, make a fine game, and can build our reputation back to where it will be again. Follw Crauthammel's (retired Syr AD) advice to the BE when BC quit.................freeze them out.
With Boeheim gone and with no home crowd to see them play on tobacco road, they will become Clemson, Vandy,GT etc. Good but not a top opponent is my guess. ( reference BC, Miami, VaTech) why build a relationship with them for "old times sake". Move ahead, lets get on with our business. We can meet them in the NCAAs

 

[Class of 72]

The conundrum is that Syracuse and their fans fill the Garden. Like it or not, our long term prospects are directly tied to our ability to sell tickets, pay good coaches and recruit talent. I can't stand Syracuse. I frankly think they are the most despicable team in the history of our league. A founding member of the Big East that was responsible for killing our league. Public enemy#1.

That said, we have to schedule them at the Garden every year if we can. Rivalries like that create bad blood, sell tickets and make for exciting basketball. They also pay the bills. We just have to make it a real rivalry and start beating them once in a while. Until they stop selling out the Garden, we will schedule them and as much as I don't like it, it is probably a good idea.

I guess the SU fans and alums fill MSG only when they play St. John's because yesterday was the ideal time to prove your theory. They are (were) ranked #3 in the nation playing a very strong Temple team. There were around 12,600 announced for attendance. There were those that decided to go shopping instead....so no sellout.
I am telling you...after Boeheim, SU needs St. John's to fill the Garden. If we were ranked #3 in the country playing Temple....we would have gotten the same 12,000 in the Garden.

 

[Moose]

In my first entrepreneurial endeavor I encountered a disagreement that had to be hammered out in small claims court. Represented by a mature, older, competent attorney, he gave me the following advice that has resonated for years:

"Always act in your own best interests, not in the worst interests of your adversary."

Using that as a yardstick I cannot come to a clear decision in my mind on how to go forward. I do not want to help Syracuse even one bit, and would prefer them to rue the day they abandoned the Big East for more cash. Right now, city kids could count on playing in front of NYC friends and family for 3-4 games a year as a Syracuse player.


Having said that, I know SJU looks at the small picture, the sure fire cash that a sellout home game at the Garden vs. Syracuse would generate, which helps fund the team. As much as most of us would say, screw that, in another thread we are ticked that Garden sales for Gtown and others are so weak we've already slashed prices by 50%.

Plenty of other teams would love to come to the Garden and sell it out besides Cuse.
Dangle that carrot to those schools. Not Cuse.

Moose, off hand I can't think of a school who would come in and play us every other year and pack the Garden without question. Syracuse - SJU is the best bet on our schedule for a sellout. I'm sure that was the primary consideration in keeping them on our schedule.

Duke
UNC
Kentucky
Uconn

All four I'd gladly play before Cuse.

And if creating a home court disadvantage at the price of a sellout is what the admin wants, then they need to look in the mirror long and hard.

I would agree with Duke but they've proved it only anedotally (not year in year out), and they draw more SJU fans than Cuse does. UCONN of course is true, but Syracuse probably does better and buys every friggin seat. I'm unconvinced they Kentucky and UNC would do the same consistently.

Few years ago we played Georgia in front of like 500 ppl since it wasn't a season ticket game. The 2nd game was Uconn Kentucky and the place was packed to the gills.

 

[simplyred]

Few years ago we played Georgia in front of like 500 ppl since it wasn't a season ticket game. The 2nd game was Uconn Kentucky and the place was packed to the gills.

I remember that game well. My tickets were for the upper section but during our game, I sat down low because the place was so empty. Toward the end of our game, I got into a conversation with a beautiful blond MILF from Louisville---a UK fan. Unfortunately, I soon had to leave when the owner of the seat came. UK fans made up 75% of MSG. Uconn had 20% and the rest were ours mixed in with a few UGA fans.

Big programs either have a large alumni base (Cuse, ND, Michigan last week in Bklyn) or they travel well. UK fans all saw this as a holiday trip to NYC. They plan their vacations with their team's road trips. I saw UNC fans fill the arena in Hawaii earlier this season. I wish we could get that kind of support for our team on the road.

 

[Moose]

Few years ago we played Georgia in front of like 500 ppl since it wasn't a season ticket game. The 2nd game was Uconn Kentucky and the place was packed to the gills.

I remember that game well. My tickets were for the upper section but during our game, I sat down low because the place was so empty. Toward the end of our game, I got into a conversation with a beautiful blond MILF from Louisville---a UK fan. Unfortunately, I soon had to leave when the owner of the seat came. UK fans made up 75% of MSG. Uconn had 20% and the rest were ours mixed in with a few UGA fans.

Big programs either have a large alumni base (Cuse, ND, Michigan last week in Bklyn) or they travel well. UK fans all saw this as a holiday trip to NYC. They plan their vacations with their team's road trips. I saw UNC fans fill the arena in Hawaii earlier this season. I wish we could get that kind of support for our team on the road.

ND never really packed MSG but good point on Michigan. Seeing them last week in Bklyn I'd think they would pack out MSG as well.

 

[Class of 72]

Few years ago we played Georgia in front of like 500 ppl since it wasn't a season ticket game. The 2nd game was Uconn Kentucky and the place was packed to the gills.

I remember that game well. My tickets were for the upper section but during our game, I sat down low because the place was so empty. Toward the end of our game, I got into a conversation with a beautiful blond MILF from Louisville---a UK fan. Unfortunately, I soon had to leave when the owner of the seat came. UK fans made up 75% of MSG. Uconn had 20% and the rest were ours mixed in with a few UGA fans.

Big programs either have a large alumni base (Cuse, ND, Michigan last week in Bklyn) or they travel well. UK fans all saw this as a holiday trip to NYC. They plan their vacations with their team's road trips. I saw UNC fans fill the arena in Hawaii earlier this season. I wish we could get that kind of support for our team on the road.

ND never really packed MSG but good point on Michigan. Seeing them last week in Bklyn I'd think they would pack out MSG as well.

Michigan has a huge NY metro area alumni fan base. Like ND, there are many wanna be Michigan grad fans that follow them. Luckily, they are in the BIG and not the ACC. I would expect the Rutgers-Michigan games at MSG in the future.
Time will tell if Lavin and company can assemble a top 10 team to fill the Garden. With the number of players with eligibilty issues, over-hyped skills and recruiting going flat, the prospect is not bright. But I have hope that within the next two weeks we will have a better picture of what we can expect THIS YEAR. That means a decision about Gift and Sanchez and how much Branch is utilized.

 

[dee]

Does anyone actually know that the administration, which is being pummeled here as usual, or Coach, or Chris M. has actually made a comittment for a long term MSG game for Syr? Has it been published or is this another straw horse story?
When Al McGuire coached Marquette we started schedueling them regularly until we noticed that it wasn't in our best interests. If we beat them, it was expected. No big deal! If they snuck out a win it was a major national upset on the back page of the papers the next day. Regardless of what happened, smooth talking Al would fete our recruits along with a bunch of other locals while he was here, without conscience, and occasionally snag a kid or two. That was the definition of "no win situation". We stopped schedueling the Warriors at the time.
Like Syr. they were good but weren't the best. Why play a guy who can only hurt you when you have Ky, Kan.,NC, Duke, UCLA, Gonzaga, Butler etc who could draw a crowd, make a fine game, and can build our reputation back to where it will be again. Follw Crauthammel's (retired Syr AD) advice to the BE when BC quit.................freeze them out.
With Boeheim gone and with no home crowd to see them play on tobacco road, they will become Clemson, Vandy,GT etc. Good but not a top opponent is my guess. ( reference BC, Miami, VaTech) why build a relationship with them for "old times sake". Move ahead, lets get on with our business. We can meet them in the NCAAs

I am in favor of freezing out SU. They must like the cold anyway as they usually get lots of snow up there. Why continue to allow them to portray themselves as NY Team? I go to Yankee Stadium and see that promotional sign and it gets me sick to my stomach. When will the powers that be in this school wake up?

 

[Moose]

Few years ago we played Georgia in front of like 500 ppl since it wasn't a season ticket game. The 2nd game was Uconn Kentucky and the place was packed to the gills.

I remember that game well. My tickets were for the upper section but during our game, I sat down low because the place was so empty. Toward the end of our game, I got into a conversation with a beautiful blond MILF from Louisville---a UK fan. Unfortunately, I soon had to leave when the owner of the seat came. UK fans made up 75% of MSG. Uconn had 20% and the rest were ours mixed in with a few UGA fans.

Big programs either have a large alumni base (Cuse, ND, Michigan last week in Bklyn) or they travel well. UK fans all saw this as a holiday trip to NYC. They plan their vacations with their team's road trips. I saw UNC fans fill the arena in Hawaii earlier this season. I wish we could get that kind of support for our team on the road.

ND never really packed MSG but good point on Michigan. Seeing them last week in Bklyn I'd think they would pack out MSG as well.

Michigan has a huge NY metro area alumni fan base. Like ND, there are many wanna be Michigan grad fans that follow them. Luckily, they are in the BIG and not the ACC. I would expect the Rutgers-Michigan games at MSG in the future.
Time will tell if Lavin and company can assemble a top 10 team to fill the Garden. With the number of players with eligibilty issues, over-hyped skills and recruiting going flat, the prospect is not bright. But I have hope that within the next two weeks we will have a better picture of what we can expect THIS YEAR. That means a decision about Gift and Sanchez and how much Branch is utilized.

I dont think there is any chance we see Gift this year.

 

[DieHard Johnny]

This is the real reason st.j's needs to fire moanasch he does nothing right complete idiot rewards the traitors by scheduling at msg

IAM not giving a dime till beachbum & the GQ priest are gone..............................

IF they need some money sell harrys suits & watches lol

 

[Class of 72]

Few years ago we played Georgia in front of like 500 ppl since it wasn't a season ticket game. The 2nd game was Uconn Kentucky and the place was packed to the gills.

I remember that game well. My tickets were for the upper section but during our game, I sat down low because the place was so empty. Toward the end of our game, I got into a conversation with a beautiful blond MILF from Louisville---a UK fan. Unfortunately, I soon had to leave when the owner of the seat came. UK fans made up 75% of MSG. Uconn had 20% and the rest were ours mixed in with a few UGA fans.

Big programs either have a large alumni base (Cuse, ND, Michigan last week in Bklyn) or they travel well. UK fans all saw this as a holiday trip to NYC. They plan their vacations with their team's road trips. I saw UNC fans fill the arena in Hawaii earlier this season. I wish we could get that kind of support for our team on the road.

ND never really packed MSG but good point on Michigan. Seeing them last week in Bklyn I'd think they would pack out MSG as well.

Michigan has a huge NY metro area alumni fan base. Like ND, there are many wanna be Michigan grad fans that follow them. Luckily, they are in the BIG and not the ACC. I would expect the Rutgers-Michigan games at MSG in the future.
Time will tell if Lavin and company can assemble a top 10 team to fill the Garden. With the number of players with eligibilty issues, over-hyped skills and recruiting going flat, the prospect is not bright. But I have hope that within the next two weeks we will have a better picture of what we can expect THIS YEAR. That means a decision about Gift and Sanchez and how much Branch is utilized.

I dont think there is any chance we see Gift this year.

Am I the only one here who thinks Lavin owes the fans an answer on Gift and how redshirting him will help the team THIS YEAR?? The product is not what he advertised. He is playing like a sneaky card dealer with the fans. My theory is that Gift, being a senior, would have provided some needed maturity on the court plus rebounding and depth at center.
By holding him out Lavin can couch the coming losses with the "youth excuse" and slide into year FOUR with two possible losing seasons. Sound familiar? It should.......just that Norm Roberts did it without top 100 players.

 

[salty dog]

Few years ago we played Georgia in front of like 500 ppl since it wasn't a season ticket game. The 2nd game was Uconn Kentucky and the place was packed to the gills.

I remember that game well. My tickets were for the upper section but during our game, I sat down low because the place was so empty. Toward the end of our game, I got into a conversation with a beautiful blond MILF from Louisville---a UK fan. Unfortunately, I soon had to leave when the owner of the seat came. UK fans made up 75% of MSG. Uconn had 20% and the rest were ours mixed in with a few UGA fans.

Big programs either have a large alumni base (Cuse, ND, Michigan last week in Bklyn) or they travel well. UK fans all saw this as a holiday trip to NYC. They plan their vacations with their team's road trips. I saw UNC fans fill the arena in Hawaii earlier this season. I wish we could get that kind of support for our team on the road.

What happened to the blonde MILF?

 

[salty dog]

Few years ago we played Georgia in front of like 500 ppl since it wasn't a season ticket game. The 2nd game was Uconn Kentucky and the place was packed to the gills.

I remember that game well. My tickets were for the upper section but during our game, I sat down low because the place was so empty. Toward the end of our game, I got into a conversation with a beautiful blond MILF from Louisville---a UK fan. Unfortunately, I soon had to leave when the owner of the seat came. UK fans made up 75% of MSG. Uconn had 20% and the rest were ours mixed in with a few UGA fans.

Big programs either have a large alumni base (Cuse, ND, Michigan last week in Bklyn) or they travel well. UK fans all saw this as a holiday trip to NYC. They plan their vacations with their team's road trips. I saw UNC fans fill the arena in Hawaii earlier this season. I wish we could get that kind of support for our team on the road.

ND never really packed MSG but good point on Michigan. Seeing them last week in Bklyn I'd think they would pack out MSG as well.

Michigan has a huge NY metro area alumni fan base. Like ND, there are many wanna be Michigan grad fans that follow them. Luckily, they are in the BIG and not the ACC. I would expect the Rutgers-Michigan games at MSG in the future.
Time will tell if Lavin and company can assemble a top 10 team to fill the Garden. With the number of players with eligibilty issues, over-hyped skills and recruiting going flat, the prospect is not bright. But I have hope that within the next two weeks we will have a better picture of what we can expect THIS YEAR. That means a decision about Gift and Sanchez and how much Branch is utilized.

I dont think there is any chance we see Gift this year.

Am I the only one here who thinks Lavin owes the fans an answer on Gift and how redshirting him will help the team THIS YEAR?? The product is not what he advertised. He is playing like a sneaky card dealer with the fans. My theory is that Gift, being a senior, would have provided some needed maturity on the court plus rebounding and depth at center.
By holding him out Lavin can couch the coming losses with the "youth excuse" and slide into year FOUR with two possible losing seasons. Sound familiar? It should.......just that Norm Roberts did it without top 100 players.

No I don't believe he needs to give the fans an explanation. He is the coach and I am sure Gift has been informed and is OK with the decision.

 

[Class of 72]

Few years ago we played Georgia in front of like 500 ppl since it wasn't a season ticket game. The 2nd game was Uconn Kentucky and the place was packed to the gills.

I remember that game well. My tickets were for the upper section but during our game, I sat down low because the place was so empty. Toward the end of our game, I got into a conversation with a beautiful blond MILF from Louisville---a UK fan. Unfortunately, I soon had to leave when the owner of the seat came. UK fans made up 75% of MSG. Uconn had 20% and the rest were ours mixed in with a few UGA fans.

Big programs either have a large alumni base (Cuse, ND, Michigan last week in Bklyn) or they travel well. UK fans all saw this as a holiday trip to NYC. They plan their vacations with their team's road trips. I saw UNC fans fill the arena in Hawaii earlier this season. I wish we could get that kind of support for our team on the road.

ND never really packed MSG but good point on Michigan. Seeing them last week in Bklyn I'd think they would pack out MSG as well.

Michigan has a huge NY metro area alumni fan base. Like ND, there are many wanna be Michigan grad fans that follow them. Luckily, they are in the BIG and not the ACC. I would expect the Rutgers-Michigan games at MSG in the future.
Time will tell if Lavin and company can assemble a top 10 team to fill the Garden. With the number of players with eligibilty issues, over-hyped skills and recruiting going flat, the prospect is not bright. But I have hope that within the next two weeks we will have a better picture of what we can expect THIS YEAR. That means a decision about Gift and Sanchez and how much Branch is utilized.

I dont think there is any chance we see Gift this year.

Am I the only one here who thinks Lavin owes the fans an answer on Gift and how redshirting him will help the team THIS YEAR?? The product is not what he advertised. He is playing like a sneaky card dealer with the fans. My theory is that Gift, being a senior, would have provided some needed maturity on the court plus rebounding and depth at center.
By holding him out Lavin can couch the coming losses with the "youth excuse" and slide into year FOUR with two possible losing seasons. Sound familiar? It should.......just that Norm Roberts did it without top 100 players.

No I don't believe he needs to give the fans an explanation. He is the coach and I am sure Gift has been informed and is OK with the decision.

Would it surprise you to know Gift was not happy with the decision? He has, to this day, been kept in a holding pattern. No formal announcement has been made by Lavin to redshirt him. It may be a forgone conclusion now that the first semester is officially over but Lavin is not rolling his eligibility to next year for a free Masters or because we are SO SO deep up front or because he will develop into a potential NBA player with an additional year of playing.
He is being held because the recruits are not flocking to Lavin this year and next year could be worse. With no Big East, and possibly no MSG BE tourney to entice recruits, the Catholic 7 attraction will just not cut it with elite recruits.
Lavin is banking on Jermaine Lawrence to sign but I am not sure his former coach, Ron Naclerio, did not pollute his thinking against St. John's in his first 3 years at Cardozo. He did a good job of pushing James Southerland away from Norm Roberst and to Syracuse so without Jermaine this years' class may turn out a bust.
We will know in two weeks whether (a) Sanchez returns from the DR and (b) whether Gift's shirt turns red.
In either case, half the season will have passed and our expectations may have to be lowered.

 

[MCNPA]

Few years ago we played Georgia in front of like 500 ppl since it wasn't a season ticket game. The 2nd game was Uconn Kentucky and the place was packed to the gills.

I remember that game well. My tickets were for the upper section but during our game, I sat down low because the place was so empty. Toward the end of our game, I got into a conversation with a beautiful blond MILF from Louisville---a UK fan. Unfortunately, I soon had to leave when the owner of the seat came. UK fans made up 75% of MSG. Uconn had 20% and the rest were ours mixed in with a few UGA fans.

Big programs either have a large alumni base (Cuse, ND, Michigan last week in Bklyn) or they travel well. UK fans all saw this as a holiday trip to NYC. They plan their vacations with their team's road trips. I saw UNC fans fill the arena in Hawaii earlier this season. I wish we could get that kind of support for our team on the road.

ND never really packed MSG but good point on Michigan. Seeing them last week in Bklyn I'd think they would pack out MSG as well.

Michigan has a huge NY metro area alumni fan base. Like ND, there are many wanna be Michigan grad fans that follow them. Luckily, they are in the BIG and not the ACC. I would expect the Rutgers-Michigan games at MSG in the future.
Time will tell if Lavin and company can assemble a top 10 team to fill the Garden. With the number of players with eligibilty issues, over-hyped skills and recruiting going flat, the prospect is not bright. But I have hope that within the next two weeks we will have a better picture of what we can expect THIS YEAR. That means a decision about Gift and Sanchez and how much Branch is utilized.

I dont think there is any chance we see Gift this year.

Am I the only one here who thinks Lavin owes the fans an answer on Gift and how redshirting him will help the team THIS YEAR?? The product is not what he advertised. He is playing like a sneaky card dealer with the fans. My theory is that Gift, being a senior, would have provided some needed maturity on the court plus rebounding and depth at center.
By holding him out Lavin can couch the coming losses with the "youth excuse" and slide into year FOUR with two possible losing seasons. Sound familiar? It should.......just that Norm Roberts did it without top 100 players.

No I don't believe he needs to give the fans an explanation. He is the coach and I am sure Gift has been informed and is OK with the decision.

Would it surprise you to know Gift was not happy with the decision? He has, to this day, been kept in a holding pattern. No formal announcement has been made by Lavin to redshirt him. It may be a forgone conclusion now that the first semester is officially over but Lavin is not rolling his eligibility to next year for a free Masters or because we are SO SO deep up front or because he will develop into a potential NBA player with an additional year of playing.
He is being held because the recruits are not flocking to Lavin this year and next year could be worse. With no Big East, and possibly no MSG BE tourney to entice recruits, the Catholic 7 attraction will just not cut it with elite recruits.
Lavin is banking on Jermaine Lawrence to sign but I am not sure his former coach, Ron Naclerio, did not pollute his thinking against St. John's in his first 3 years at Cardozo. He did a good job of pushing James Southerland away from Norm Roberst and to Syracuse so without Jermaine this years' class may turn out a bust.
We will know in two weeks whether (a) Sanchez returns from the DR and (b) whether Gift's shirt turns red.
In either case, half the season will have passed and our expectations may have to be lowered.

It has nothing to do with recruits not flocking here. Nothing at all. We only have a ship or two regardless. Lavin hasn't even pressed hard for talent in this class except Lawrence and Jordan. He never did. He did expect to Sanchez on board as we all did. Redshirting Gift is a hedge both for this year and next. It's not because there isn't good talent that can be had though. There's no way anybody is going to convince me that Lavin is redshirting Gift because of some recruiting apocalypse. The uncertain future in the new conference certainly might change things, but that is for everyone. Pretty sure you're making some of this stuff as you go along.

 

[Class of 72]

Few years ago we played Georgia in front of like 500 ppl since it wasn't a season ticket game. The 2nd game was Uconn Kentucky and the place was packed to the gills.

I remember that game well. My tickets were for the upper section but during our game, I sat down low because the place was so empty. Toward the end of our game, I got into a conversation with a beautiful blond MILF from Louisville---a UK fan. Unfortunately, I soon had to leave when the owner of the seat came. UK fans made up 75% of MSG. Uconn had 20% and the rest were ours mixed in with a few UGA fans.

Big programs either have a large alumni base (Cuse, ND, Michigan last week in Bklyn) or they travel well. UK fans all saw this as a holiday trip to NYC. They plan their vacations with their team's road trips. I saw UNC fans fill the arena in Hawaii earlier this season. I wish we could get that kind of support for our team on the road.

ND never really packed MSG but good point on Michigan. Seeing them last week in Bklyn I'd think they would pack out MSG as well.

Michigan has a huge NY metro area alumni fan base. Like ND, there are many wanna be Michigan grad fans that follow them. Luckily, they are in the BIG and not the ACC. I would expect the Rutgers-Michigan games at MSG in the future.
Time will tell if Lavin and company can assemble a top 10 team to fill the Garden. With the number of players with eligibilty issues, over-hyped skills and recruiting going flat, the prospect is not bright. But I have hope that within the next two weeks we will have a better picture of what we can expect THIS YEAR. That means a decision about Gift and Sanchez and how much Branch is utilized.

I dont think there is any chance we see Gift this year.

Am I the only one here who thinks Lavin owes the fans an answer on Gift and how redshirting him will help the team THIS YEAR?? The product is not what he advertised. He is playing like a sneaky card dealer with the fans. My theory is that Gift, being a senior, would have provided some needed maturity on the court plus rebounding and depth at center.
By holding him out Lavin can couch the coming losses with the "youth excuse" and slide into year FOUR with two possible losing seasons. Sound familiar? It should.......just that Norm Roberts did it without top 100 players.

No I don't believe he needs to give the fans an explanation. He is the coach and I am sure Gift has been informed and is OK with the decision.

Would it surprise you to know Gift was not happy with the decision? He has, to this day, been kept in a holding pattern. No formal announcement has been made by Lavin to redshirt him. It may be a forgone conclusion now that the first semester is officially over but Lavin is not rolling his eligibility to next year for a free Masters or because we are SO SO deep up front or because he will develop into a potential NBA player with an additional year of playing.
He is being held because the recruits are not flocking to Lavin this year and next year could be worse. With no Big East, and possibly no MSG BE tourney to entice recruits, the Catholic 7 attraction will just not cut it with elite recruits.
Lavin is banking on Jermaine Lawrence to sign but I am not sure his former coach, Ron Naclerio, did not pollute his thinking against St. John's in his first 3 years at Cardozo. He did a good job of pushing James Southerland away from Norm Roberst and to Syracuse so without Jermaine this years' class may turn out a bust.
We will know in two weeks whether (a) Sanchez returns from the DR and (b) whether Gift's shirt turns red.
In either case, half the season will have passed and our expectations may have to be lowered.

It has nothing to do with recruits not flocking here. Nothing at all. We only have a ship or two regardless. Lavin hasn't even pressed hard for talent in this class except Lawrence and Jordan. He never did. He did expect to Sanchez on board as we all did. Redshirting Gift is a hedge both for this year and next. It's not because there isn't good talent that can be had though. There's no way anybody is going to convince me that Lavin is redshirting Gift because of some recruiting apocalypse. The uncertain future in the new conference certainly might change things, but that is for everyone. Pretty sure you're making some of this stuff as you go along.

So in an apologetic way, you appear to agree with me? "Lavin hasn't even pressed hard for talent in this class except Lawrence and Jordan."
Since when does Calipari or Boeheim or coach K take a year off of the recruiting pedal? We are SO talented we do? We have a hole in rebounding bigger than the Black Hole and with Harrison on the short list of departures, you better be pretty sure (and mean your targets have you #1 on their list) that you are getting new talent --- real talent-- not the Christain Jones, Jean Paul Satres or Max Hooper's of the world. If players like Karr and Harrison are gone and one or two transfer ( our specialty under Lavin), refresh my memory-----who do we have coming back in YEAR FOUR to propel us and the Catholic 7 into the arms of ESPN, FOX or even CNBC?
I hope I am wrong on all counts and we sign both Jermaine and Rayseed next week but I have profound doubts.
As for Gift, let's just say that he was just a little disappointed that he was told in October of the red shirt possibity and that it took some convincing according to someone close to the situation.
Regardless, if we get outrebounded in critical Big East games as we have been against mid-majors, it will have been a tactical blunder by Lavin. If that decision translates into a .500 season, with a team loaded with top 100 talent, the "handlers" of the players will guide (gently) their players away from St. John's the way Ron Naclerio has done over the years.
P.S. Don't bring up Mo Harkless. He was a product of the hard work of Mike Dunlap.