St. John's basketball family should be embarrassed

[Andrew]

I've played hoops for years and followed this team for 25 years. I know what it looks like I am just not a pathetic individual who's life is Johnnies basketball.

Your still on a message board posting multiple times about this subject. Must be a pretty important part of your life.

Yea, Important- I am a fan- but I am not on a message board saying my life is over because a bunch of 18-22 year olds lost a game. That's pathetic just like yourself.

The fact that your life may not be over gives you no right to make a disgusting unwarranted comment to me.

 

[basketballjones]

It's funny reading the people who like to defend Lavin by bringing up Norm. A year or two ago you were insulted when they were put in the same sentence. Now all you of you are hyprocrites by doing so in order to defend Lav.

Funny thing is there's no argument to be made. In actuality Norm served his purpose just fine. He cleaned up a program that had turned into scum. What has Lavin done? The guy makes excuse after excuse after excuse. And THAT is my problem. Take some accountability Stevie cause this nice-guy excuse bs doesn't suit anybody well. It's only the clueless apologists who are still buying that crap.

I have been watching SJU since Lapchick teams did more with less than almost anyone ever and I have disliked Lavin's on-court product which I see as doing less with more, since watching his UCLA teams. I do not want Lavin fired. I do not want SJU to aspire to small time basketball (Norm Roberts era), or basketball at the expense of human decency (Jarvis era), or basketball that causes players' parents to complain about abuse (Fraschilla era). I disliked Louie's last few years as I thought he became inflexible as he approached the end of his career.

Problem for me is I am fully aware of jumping out of the frying pan in to the fire. Lavin gives us presence, decency towards players, and recruiting competency. What remains to be seen is whether some of the athletes he recruits can be nurtured to higher levels of basketball smarts, perhaps using red shirts and an occasional CYO grinder.

I would rather continue with Lavin and hope that every once in a while a player's leadership skills overcome his coaching shortcomings (D'Lo certainly has tried and D'Lo on the court with Sheed and Branch has made us look very good at times). I don't want another small timer, a cheat, or an abuser.

My sense is that there is an unspoken rule that is unbalancing Lavin's coaching and which also affected Jarvis; if you blow a defensive assignment you are sitting or if more defense is needed to quiet an opposing player getting on a roll, I will sub in more defense. When this has resulted in more Sir Dom or Phil, particularly with neither Branch or Rysheed on the court, it has hurt us all year. Marcus Hatten saved Jarvis for two years. Lavin has to let Branch and Rysheed do the same for him.

I agree with this post more than the people who want Coach fired. I think it sets us back to start over. However, Coach Lavin has to really do a serious review of everything that happened this year and stop falling back on excuses. It's been a weird year. Tragic for the some of the players. However, a lot of the team's poor play could have been avoided and you can't have the team get off to a slow start and excuse it by saying that February we'll get it together. It takes a minor miracle to recover from a January where you lost almost every game.

Recruiting the best players is the hardest part of the job in my opinion and that's where his strengths lie. He's not going anywhere, we're going to have him as head coach for the next 5 or 6 years, so he has to recruit better than anyone in the league year after year and we have to get assistants who can develop players individually and come up with a real offensive and defensive philosophy. It can't be just shot blocking and fast breaks. We won't win. Our defense improved some during the winning streak, but not enough.

I want to see a team that is tough. I want to see us play a top 25 schedule, win 20+ games and be in the top 25 every year. Coach Carnesecca's teams went to the tournament 18 times in 24 years. We can get there again, but we have to get really good players recruited every year.

 

[TX Redman]

Embarrassed over not making the NCAA's? Never.

Maybe not too thrilled about some of the negativity around the BB program and the school in recent years (the hooker in Pitt, Artest in Indy, Jayson & the limo driver, FH / Chang)... But almost every school these days has problems with theft, cheating, campus shootings, pedo's, drugs, etc.

But embarrassed because a bunch of kids lost a college game and the coach is not the second coming of Wooden? Never.

Disappointed? Sure.

Time for perspective, please.

 

[ManhattAn1]

Nah you deserved it.

 

[beast of the east]

If we don't get Harrison to a tournament next year I will be ashamed and disgusted. Poor dude

Not going to kill the guy on one play, but he did not create enough space for himself when he launched the three that got blocked. To be honest, I didn't think it was going to be close to a basket based on how he was launching it anyways. In terms of a bid, he literally had the ball in his hands in most big moments this year, and deserves as much blame for the team's failures in addition to a well earned first team Big East slot.

 

[sirvoo]

Embarrassed over not making the NCAA's? Never.

Maybe not too thrilled about some of the negativity around the BB program and the school in recent years (the hooker in Pitt, Artest in Indy, Jayson & the limo driver, FH / Chang)... But almost every school these days has problems with theft, cheating, campus shootings, pedo's, drugs, etc.

But embarrassed because a bunch of kids lost a college game and the coach is not the second coming of Wooden? Never.

Disappointed? Sure.

Time for perspective, please.

Exactly right. Losing by 40 points is embarrassing. We were 5 point favorites in an all-or-nothing game and we came up short. Somebody was going to leave that gym disappointed, and unfortunately it was us.

 

[Moose]

If we don't get Harrison to a tournament next year I will be ashamed and disgusted. Poor dude

Not going to kill the guy on one play, but he did not create enough space for himself when he launched the three that got blocked. To be honest, I didn't think it was going to be close to a basket based on how he was launching it anyways. In terms of a bid, he literally had the ball in his hands in most big moments this year, and deserves as much blame for the team's failures in addition to a well earned first team Big East slot.

Wait
Let me get this straight.
You could tell that a blocked shot wasn't going to be close to being a basket?
If thats the case who is making the final four so I can make some money and salvage this shitty year?

 

[beast of the east]

If we don't get Harrison to a tournament next year I will be ashamed and disgusted. Poor dude

Not going to kill the guy on one play, but he did not create enough space for himself when he launched the three that got blocked. To be honest, I didn't think it was going to be close to a basket based on how he was launching it anyways. In terms of a bid, he literally had the ball in his hands in most big moments this year, and deserves as much blame for the team's failures in addition to a well earned first team Big East slot.

Wait
Let me get this straight.
You could tell that a blocked shot wasn't going to be close to being a basket?
If thats the case who is making the final four so I can make some money and salvage this shitty year?

Moose it appeared to me to be a rushed, frantic, attempt. We saw enough of what Harrison would do in the clutch when he was impatient. The long three against Marquette was patient, cool as could be, with plenty of time to launch. He didn't have to rush it at that moment, but he did, and made a poor choice.

 

[no hope]

moose my man that is a classic post.. tell him give us a few big dogs who will win outright so we can take the ml and make some cash :lol:

 

[Moose]

If we don't get Harrison to a tournament next year I will be ashamed and disgusted. Poor dude

Not going to kill the guy on one play, but he did not create enough space for himself when he launched the three that got blocked. To be honest, I didn't think it was going to be close to a basket based on how he was launching it anyways. In terms of a bid, he literally had the ball in his hands in most big moments this year, and deserves as much blame for the team's failures in addition to a well earned first team Big East slot.

Wait
Let me get this straight.
You could tell that a blocked shot wasn't going to be close to being a basket?
If thats the case who is making the final four so I can make some money and salvage this shitty year?

Moose it appeared to me to be a rushed, frantic, attempt. We saw enough of what Harrison would do in the clutch when he was impatient. The long three against Marquette was patient, cool as could be, with plenty of time to launch. He didn't have to rush it at that moment, but he did, and made a poor choice.

Plenty of time? Sorry but I had enough of the kill the clock mode we tend to play within. The quicker the shots the better for all of them honestly. That shot yesterday was with momentum flying along. The team plays like its up 17 when its down 17.

 

[paultzman]

If we don't get Harrison to a tournament next year I will be ashamed and disgusted. Poor dude

Not going to kill the guy on one play, but he did not create enough space for himself when he launched the three that got blocked. To be honest, I didn't think it was going to be close to a basket based on how he was launching it anyways. In terms of a bid, he literally had the ball in his hands in most big moments this year, and deserves as much blame for the team's failures in addition to a well earned first team Big East slot.

Wait
Let me get this straight.
You could tell that a blocked shot wasn't going to be close to being a basket?
If thats the case who is making the final four so I can make some money and salvage this shitty year?

Moose it appeared to me to be a rushed, frantic, attempt. We saw enough of what Harrison would do in the clutch when he was impatient. The long three against Marquette was patient, cool as could be, with plenty of time to launch. He didn't have to rush it at that moment, but he did, and made a poor choice.

Beast, thought you said "Adios" to Posting Paradise yesterday. Before you do go, was Moose cheering, sitting or snoring yesterday?

 

[Jack Williams]

If we don't get Harrison to a tournament next year I will be ashamed and disgusted. Poor dude

Not going to kill the guy on one play, but he did not create enough space for himself when he launched the three that got blocked. To be honest, I didn't think it was going to be close to a basket based on how he was launching it anyways. In terms of a bid, he literally had the ball in his hands in most big moments this year, and deserves as much blame for the team's failures in addition to a well earned first team Big East slot.

Wait
Let me get this straight.
You could tell that a blocked shot wasn't going to be close to being a basket?
If thats the case who is making the final four so I can make some money and salvage this shitty year?

Moose it appeared to me to be a rushed, frantic, attempt. We saw enough of what Harrison would do in the clutch when he was impatient. The long three against Marquette was patient, cool as could be, with plenty of time to launch. He didn't have to rush it at that moment, but he did, and made a poor choice.

Maybe he rushed it to fake the defender into a foul... Which he successfully did, too bad the refs were blind

 

[CBA1992]

I am not the least bit embarrassed the way this team played this year. Disappointed? Very, but not ashamed by any means. We proved this year, we could compete with almost any team in the country. Not necessarily beat any team, but at least show up and compete. During the Lavin era, Attendance at MSG went from about 6k to almost 10k and there is nothing wrong with that.

I went to 5 games this year, home and away, and we went 2-3. We were in EVERY game until at least the last 90 seconds. My wife and kids had a blast, I had blast. We are simply an NIT type of program that may make the big dance every few years or so. Nothing more and fortunately, Nothing less. There are 60 or so teams better than is in D1 and probably another 250 or so that would love to in our shoes right now.

Speaking of the NIT, hopefully we get a 1 seed and go ahead and win that thing! Ill be watching and hopefully most of you will as well.

 

[Moose]

I am not the least bit embarrassed the way this team played this year. Disappointed? Very, but not ashamed by any means. We proved this year, we could compete with almost any team in the country. Not necessarily beat any team, but at least show up and compete. During the Lavin era, Attendance at MSG went from about 6k to almost 10k and there is nothing wrong with that.

I went to 5 games this year, home and away, and we went 2-3. We were in EVERY game until at least the last 90 seconds. My wife and kids had a blast, I had blast. We are simply an NIT type of program that may make the big dance every few years or so. Nothing more and fortunately, Nothing less. There are 60 or so teams better than is in D1 and probably another 250 or so that would love to in our shoes right now.

Speaking of the NIT, hopefully we get a 1 seed and go ahead and win that thing! Ill be watching and hopefully most of you will as well.

A team with this many highly ranked players should be an NIT team that makes the big dance every few years or so?
If that's the case then sign up for finally agreeing with those posters who said we should drop down to the MAAC.

 

[beast of the east]

I am not the least bit embarrassed the way this team played this year. Disappointed? Very, but not ashamed by any means. We proved this year, we could compete with almost any team in the country. Not necessarily beat any team, but at least show up and compete. During the Lavin era, Attendance at MSG went from about 6k to almost 10k and there is nothing wrong with that.

I went to 5 games this year, home and away, and we went 2-3. We were in EVERY game until at least the last 90 seconds. My wife and kids had a blast, I had blast. We are simply an NIT type of program that may make the big dance every few years or so. Nothing more and fortunately, Nothing less. There are 60 or so teams better than is in D1 and probably another 250 or so that would love to in our shoes right now.

Speaking of the NIT, hopefully we get a 1 seed and go ahead and win that thing! Ill be watching and hopefully most of you will as well.

A team with this many highly ranked players should be an NIT team that makes the big dance every few years or so?
If that's the case then sign up for finally agreeing with those posters who said we should drop down to the MAAC.

This was not a very strong Big East conference this season, but was competitive. I think the Garden scoreboard staff was challenged to come up with Big East History questions where the answer wasn't Syracuse (especially), Pitt, ND, Louisville, or Boston College. They couldn't.

 

[beast of the east]

If we don't get Harrison to a tournament next year I will be ashamed and disgusted. Poor dude

Not going to kill the guy on one play, but he did not create enough space for himself when he launched the three that got blocked. To be honest, I didn't think it was going to be close to a basket based on how he was launching it anyways. In terms of a bid, he literally had the ball in his hands in most big moments this year, and deserves as much blame for the team's failures in addition to a well earned first team Big East slot.

Wait
Let me get this straight.
You could tell that a blocked shot wasn't going to be close to being a basket?
If thats the case who is making the final four so I can make some money and salvage this shitty year?

Moose it appeared to me to be a rushed, frantic, attempt. We saw enough of what Harrison would do in the clutch when he was impatient. The long three against Marquette was patient, cool as could be, with plenty of time to launch. He didn't have to rush it at that moment, but he did, and made a poor choice.

Beast, thought you said "Adios" to Posting Paradise yesterday. Before you do go, was Moose cheering, sitting or snoring yesterday?

Sorry, you'd think that having a job, I would get back to it since I took the afternoon off. Are you and Moose a couple now? The one nice thing about the BET is that the Garden is a little more lively with fans who actually cheer for their teams than ours do. Most of the time the buzz at a wake is louder than our fans.

 

[salty dog]

Extremely disappointing end to what started out as an extremely disappointing season and morphed into something that at least looked somewhat promising. Nothing to be embarrassed about, but the fact of the matter is that if the team can't get to the dance playing against this type pf watered down competition, then it's really not very good. That falls on the shoulders of everyone involved in the program. This team needs to assert itself as the flagship program of the Big East, and in a hurry, or the days of big time basketball in the Big East may very well be dead.

Before we reach verdict on the Big East, don't you think they should play some tournament games?

 

[CBA1992]

Fair enough, but two things worth notiing from from these "highly ranked" players. They were highly ranked and top prospects, coming out of HS. No guarantee on how they or any top prospect will elevate their game at this level. Secondly, Lavin has proven he can recruit top players, but certainly is a average X and O guy which must have accounted for a loss or two this year I am guessing. That why my expectations were exactly 10-8 in the conference.

I don't know all the stats like you do, but I don't think we have made the tourney that much over the last 15 years and of I'm not mistaken we have one more NIT championships that any other school. Therefore, sadly, the NIT just may be our speciality.

 

[GardenCity62]

High school players now commit prior to senior year in most cases. This makes evaluation even tougher. Pointer was a top 25 recruit on some rating services, Branch was a top ten point guard.
Unfortunately when you miss on a recruits potential you not only get hurt because of their lack of production but for a year or two you can miss out on other recruits because they feel there won't be playing time available.

 

[monte]

I am not the least bit embarrassed the way this team played this year. Disappointed? Very, but not ashamed by any means. We proved this year, we could compete with almost any team in the country. Not necessarily beat any team, but at least show up and compete. During the Lavin era, Attendance at MSG went from about 6k to almost 10k and there is nothing wrong with that.

I went to 5 games this year, home and away, and we went 2-3. We were in EVERY game until at least the last 90 seconds. My wife and kids had a blast, I had blast. We are simply an NIT type of program that may make the big dance every few years or so. Nothing more and fortunately, Nothing less. There are 60 or so teams better than is in D1 and probably another 250 or so that would love to in our shoes right now.

Speaking of the NIT, hopefully we get a 1 seed and go ahead and win that thing! Ill be watching and hopefully most of you will as well.

I would have to say that you're in the minority in asserting, and being willing to accept, that we are an "NIT type of program". But if that's what we wind up becoming, I assure that attendance at MSG will not stay anywhere near 10K per game.