St. John's basketball family should be embarrassed
- Thread starter mantle369
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It's fair to say "embarassing" because that's how many of us feel when we talk St John's basketball with our friends and co-workers.
The team rarely played hard for 40 minutes. I don't think Louisville's players are better than ours, but Pitino insists on his team playing relentless ball from the opening buzzer and it shows at the end. Our lack of effort is embarassing.
There's no "winning isn't everything, it's the only thing" mantra from the coach. Players can take games off...walkons can start...redshirts can make cameos...40+pct shooters from three can be glued to the bench...etc.
Our game attendance is embarassing. Most schools have a sixth man...the fans in the stands. We have no sixth man to push us over the top in close games...or to push refs to make decisions in our favor on close calls.
The new Big East is embarassing. We probably have the most positive fan base in the country. If we were in the Patriot League, posters here and on the other site would insist the conference is right there with the big boys. The reality is we're NOT as good as the Atlantic 10 or the AAC. The conference is mid major...period. What's more embarassing is the conference leadership is happy with the status quo...as are most of the fans. Top tier players...the ones Lavin can't get...want to play in high major conferences. This means recruiting will be even tougher down the road and we could end up in the Norm Roberts neighborhood.
It's embarassing that we're in the NIT and there's still no info about tickets...i.e. ticket pricing, availability, etc. That guarantees an embarassing turnout that the fans will be blamed for.
There's very little that's not embarassing, when you think honestly about it.
The team rarely played hard for 40 minutes. I don't think Louisville's players are better than ours, but Pitino insists on his team playing relentless ball from the opening buzzer and it shows at the end. Our lack of effort is embarassing.
There's no "winning isn't everything, it's the only thing" mantra from the coach. Players can take games off...walkons can start...redshirts can make cameos...40+pct shooters from three can be glued to the bench...etc.
Our game attendance is embarassing. Most schools have a sixth man...the fans in the stands. We have no sixth man to push us over the top in close games...or to push refs to make decisions in our favor on close calls.
The new Big East is embarassing. We probably have the most positive fan base in the country. If we were in the Patriot League, posters here and on the other site would insist the conference is right there with the big boys. The reality is we're NOT as good as the Atlantic 10 or the AAC. The conference is mid major...period. What's more embarassing is the conference leadership is happy with the status quo...as are most of the fans. Top tier players...the ones Lavin can't get...want to play in high major conferences. This means recruiting will be even tougher down the road and we could end up in the Norm Roberts neighborhood.
It's embarassing that we're in the NIT and there's still no info about tickets...i.e. ticket pricing, availability, etc. That guarantees an embarassing turnout that the fans will be blamed for.
There's very little that's not embarassing, when you think honestly about it.
ridiculous....first off he put in the walk on TO light a fire under them Did they underachieve ? ABSOLUTELY! but to rip the whole conference is crazy. If we played different 1st halfs on a couple of games, we are dancing...we didnt and the team must live with that. Its a hard lesson learned. This team has talent, but unlike a lot of teams, its taken them longer to gel. I think Lav has tried and pull all the right strings. He planned the early trip to europe to have them gel against good competition. He brought in reenforcements at postions we needed depth. I dont blame his xos like most do. His team comes out in the 2nd half and makes furious comebacks. I attibute thatto the PLAYERS taking the other teams too lightly. Maybe after this season, they wont. unlike most of you on here, i think Lav has done a decent job. He brings the players in, he plans a good schedule, and he is a positive mentor. Has he made mistakes? Sure, what coach doesnt? But, i think a lot of the lapses and on the players shoulders, its time for this group to step up! A championship in the NIT is still a championship and a positive step for next year. A year in which we only lose Gift and Sanchez. I can deal with only losing those two. I think Jones will surprise people next year. Bottom line, the season is almost done, lets still support them while we can. Go Johnnies!!
This is very true, though most don't see it that way or don't want to see it that way. IMHO when your conference tournament winner is an 11 seed, that's a problem.
I think that the BE could go one of two ways. I hope that (1) the four teams we placed in the NCAA this year all do really well and (2) the recruiting numbers Otis put up translate into high-level play in the next couple of years. I think that if those two things happen and the league is competitive nationally for the next couple of years then success will breed success and we will thrive as a niche basketball league. What I really hope is that the BCS stuff plays out and that in the end we can take in some of the high-level basketball programs that get left without a seat at the football table (Temple, Memphis, UConn, Cincy, for instance). That's probably wishful thinking.
The other way is not a good way, since it will mean that there are four or five power conferences and we will be in the discussion for "best of the rest" with the MVC, A-10, etc. In other words, borderline irrelevant.
If there any embarrassment to this seasons results it lies with Lavin. His policy of building players abilities up resulted in unreasonable expectations among the fan base.
Mario and Max are nowhere near as good shooters as some of the players he had at UCLA. At least not in game conditions.
There aren't four future NBA players in the lineup. Jordan looks like he is but that's it.
The fan base had SJU as the most talented team in the Big East prior to the season along with some gullible TV announcers while the pre season BB magazines had SJU at 5,6 or 7.
Mario and Max are nowhere near as good shooters as some of the players he had at UCLA. At least not in game conditions.
There aren't four future NBA players in the lineup. Jordan looks like he is but that's it.
The fan base had SJU as the most talented team in the Big East prior to the season along with some gullible TV announcers while the pre season BB magazines had SJU at 5,6 or 7.
You have been on this Big East is a Mid Major stuff all year. Stop already. We had a 3 or 4 RPI as a conference, we (the league) are bringing in top recruits. It is only going to get better; just like the original BE and it was our only option. We just need to get better!!
Yes, because the only way to judge a conference is on the number of teams that make the tourney right? Let's not let facts get in the way of your crusade here.
Going into the Big East Tournament, 7 out of the 10 teams in the league were either tourney locks or on the bubble. It doesn't get much more respectable than that.
Agreed expectations were too high. Some were reasonable and just didn't pan out; others were clearly unreasonable.
A dangerous combination as far as expectations go for the current program is "fan recruiting expert overhype" + "Lavin not getting enough out of his players in the end". You're getting built up only to get knocked way down.
Look no further than Orlando Sanchez. Seems like a terrific kid and I wish only the best for him after everything he's been through - should be able to make a very nice living playing this game somewhere for the next decade or so which is fantastic.
But that place will not be the NBA. And, to your point Jack, that - along with him possibly being the best offensive player on our team - was the chatter on here for the better part of 18 months leading up to his first game. Then he scored in double-digits 8 times all season; never broke 20. What he was described as being and what he ended up being weren't close.
Can't blame that all on overhype, however. He was inexplicably allowed to spend the first 2/3 of the season floating around the perimeter taking contested jumpshots, when it was clear he could facilitate if not dominate from the high and mid posts and in. It wasn't until his last 6 games that he played his best and most consistent basketball, taking his defensive rebounding (his strongest suit all season) to an even higher level and really committing to attacking the basket off the dribble and using his length to generate points around the rim. He was misused as those should have been the points of emphasis from the start.
I believe if Sanchez had played for 2 years we would have seen a much improved Sanchez in the second year. I believe even Brownlee was much improved in his second year. Sanchez had never played the game at this level before. In my opinion he needed more time to adjust. He was getting better in the second 1/2 of the year; if he had the two years I believe he would have been much improved year over year.
I expected this team to be a NCAA team this year. The poor shooting and lack of an inside presence on offense hurt us. We had no wide body, we always seemed to get pushed around under the boards by guys with a body type like Batts. All of our "skilled players" are thin, nobody with real upper body strength, except for Gift but he did not have the skill level offensively.