St. John's 10 best all time NBA players

To sum it up-one great pro, a handful of good pros, and mostly cameo appearances. It's not hard to see why there were only two final fours since 1950. Wasn't around in the early 50's to see the team that went to the finals. As for 1985, we had 5 players from that final four team taste life in the NBA. Some for a few games, and two for very long and successful careers. As Louie always said, you need great players.
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Through Looie's career we were the 4th winningest team in NCAA history. As I recall only Kentucky, Kansas, UNC were higher. The lack of success (final 4) goes to a series of ridiculous blunders in choosing the right leadership to carry on that tradition. Not coincidentally corresponding to the name change IMHO. All part of a flawed mentality.

I would say however that Mark Jackson was ROY as well as 3rd all time assists leader in the NBA. Definitely a "great" pro. Jayson Williams early NBA was not special but 2nd Act was. 2 or 3 All Star selections and Defensive POY.

we looked at schools>recruits>NBA success about 10 years ago. It was interesting to look at both UNC and Duke Alumni. While UNC has had the Lion's Share of McD AA (nobody else is close) and they have had several great NBA, they have not had a commensurate ratio of NBA players to their recruiting. Duke also has had a very large share of McD while even lower NBA success- in proportion. Pete Gillen had a great line when he was at VA where he said of one of the guys rotting on the Duke bench that they had recruited that went something like, not only would he be a star at UVA, we'd erect a statue of him here.
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Do you think that Dean Smith, Roy Williams, and Coach K recruit to a system, that necessarily doesn't translate into NBA superstardom? Could it be that because those schools are stacked and go deep into the tournament continually that their players are overvalued?

What do you think?
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Couple factors I see... 1) Duke's period of success has overlapped with the period when kids were going straight to the nba. If they had their reign in the 60s and 70s, they'd have more nba stars and hall of famers. But instead they were getting the top recruits during a tenure when the Lebrons, Kobes, Garnetts, etc went straight to the nba.
2) There's more parity in recruiting than we usually acknowledge. Duke doesn't actually get the pick of the litter every year. The truth is that at any given time they fight with a handful of historically blue-chip teams for the mcdonalds all americans, plus a few programs on a recent hot streak ala a Florida, Arizona, UCONN depending on the time period. But Duke is basically in the same class as kentucky, UNC, Kansas, UCLA, Indiana, Michigan State. So at best they're getting 10% of the nba talent.
 
Do you think that Dean Smith, Roy Williams, and Coach K recruit to a system, that necessarily doesn't translate into NBA superstardom? Could it be that because those schools are stacked and go deep into the tournament continually that their players are overvalued?
What do you think?
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The biggest factor in terms of ratio is simply a numbers game. As a superstar high school player, you risk being relegated to the bench and your future essentially to play for these teams while you'd be guaranteed to be a star or even The star on just about any other team - even very good teams. And to counter that, all one of these coaches has to do is challenge them with a question about whether or not they are the best of the best? Whether or not the coach may have already relegated them to a secondary or tertiary role is another question and there have been some examples where IMHO a coach recruited a player just to ensure that he didn't play for another team in his league.

I do think that Duke has been an exceptional college system that does not highlight some of the strengths that would translate to the NBA. Watching Laetner own Shaq and several other superstars that were otherwise physically far superior, and having such a dominant career at Duke, who'd have thunk he'd be such a mediocre pro? Further to Gillen's sentiments, how many guys went through these systems and forfeited future NBA careers had they gone on to be "the man" at some other school? In the case of UNC I think it is just a really corrupt system such as at some other schools like say uconn where there is so much money flowing and so many interests involved that a few guys reap big rewards while everyone else is expendable. I think many if not most of the recruits themselves understand this at least at some level, but they have been told for so long how awesome they are (many deluded with little grasp of basic morality from being manipulated and "handled" through their childhood) that they are convinced that they will be one of the beneficiaries, not one of the victims.
 
There's a handful of players that we swung and missed at for different reasons, we land any one of them and the St Johns program would be seen in a very different light.
Camby, Kareem, Olajuwon etc.

Because, the numbers are there and the history is what it is. But we need another Final Four and a second star with a truly great nba career to point to.
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Gary Payton?
 
Do you think that Dean Smith, Roy Williams, and Coach K recruit to a system, that necessarily doesn't translate into NBA superstardom? Could it be that because those schools are stacked and go deep into the tournament continually that their players are overvalued?
What do you think?
Click to expand...

The biggest factor in terms of ratio is simply a numbers game. As a superstar high school player, you risk being relegated to the bench and your future essentially to play for these teams while you'd be guaranteed to be a star or even The star on just about any other team - even very good teams. And to counter that, all one of these coaches has to do is challenge them with a question about whether or not they are the best of the best? Whether or not the coach may have already relegated them to a secondary or tertiary role is another question and there have been some examples where IMHO a coach recruited a player just to ensure that he didn't play for another team in his league.

I do think that Duke has been an exceptional college system that does not highlight some of the strengths that would translate to the NBA. Watching Laetner own Shaq and several other superstars that were otherwise physically far superior, and having such a dominant career at Duke, who'd have thunk he'd be such a mediocre pro? Further to Gillen's sentiments, how many guys went through these systems and forfeited future NBA careers had they gone on to be "the man" at some other school? In the case of UNC I think it is just a really corrupt system such as at some other schools like say uconn where there is so much money flowing and so many interests involved that a few guys reap big rewards while everyone else is expendable. I think many if not most of the recruits themselves understand this at least at some level, but they have been told for so long how awesome they are (many deluded with little grasp of basic morality from being manipulated and "handled" through their childhood) that they are convinced that they will be one of the beneficiaries, not one of the victims.
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Does Isiah Whitehead choosing Seton Hall make sense then?
 
I quickly read through this thread and I do not believe I saw Malik Sealy. If not that is a big omission. He was a very good pro and who knows how much more he would have done if not for the tragic accident.
 
Does Isiah Whitehead choosing Seton Hall make sense then?
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makes sense in that he will most likely be the star of the show there but there is certainly room to wonder about how things were handled.
 
I quickly read through this thread and I do not believe I saw Malik Sealy. If not that is a big omission. He was a very good pro and who knows how much more he would have done if not for the tragic accident.
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I have always thought of it as vehicular manslaughter, not an accident.
 
Do this thread again in about 5 years, and Moe Harkless moves up to #2 all-time, right behind Mullin.
Also Rysheed Jordan will have been an NBA starter for at least 2 years at that point and deserve mention.
 
There's a handful of players that we swung and missed at for different reasons, we land any one of them and the St Johns program would be seen in a very different light.
Camby, Kareem, Olajuwon etc.

Because, the numbers are there and the history is what it is. But we need another Final Four and a second star with a truly great nba career to point to.
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Gary Payton?
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That wasn't a swing and a miss. That was a home run until Looie reneged on the letter of intent.
 
When was Marcus Camby ever a SJU target?
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1991 92? Whenever he was in HS. Supposedly Calipari told him Lou had cancer or some other illness.

Admittedly I was 9 at the time, so I've only heard the story via third person accounts. But it's something that people around the program have said for years.

Maybe someone else who remembers more can fill in the details
 
When was Marcus Camby ever a SJU target?
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1991 92? Whenever he was in HS. Supposedly Calipari told him Lou had cancer or some other illness.

Admittedly I was 9 at the time, so I've only heard the story via third person accounts. But it's something that people around the program have said for years.

Maybe someone else who remembers more can fill in the details
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I also wasn't around for that time but that Lou story wasn't with Camby. I thought the Calipari talk was when he was asst coach at Pitt?
 
When was Marcus Camby ever a SJU target?
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1991 92? Whenever he was in HS. Supposedly Calipari told him Lou had cancer or some other illness.
Admittedly I was 9 at the time, so I've only heard the story via third person accounts. But it's something that people around the program have said for years.
Maybe someone else who remembers more can fill in the details
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I don't believe the recruit(s) in question were Camby but a couple of other kids including one by the name of Branch. This goes back to when Cal was an assistant at Pitt. Others claim that it was Pitino who made up the story about Calipari and thus hurting both programs at the same time (Pitt and SJU). Supposedly it was Pitino who called Calipari out on this issue, not Looie. At the very least it has been confirmed by multiple people that the accusation was made against Cal at the Big East conf meetings at the time. 1986? But as I said, the way I heard it was that it was Pitino who was stirring up the accusations, not anyone from St. John's. As I recall, Jim Calhoun also made veiled allegations against Calipari as well during later dates where he used this issue to throw mud at Calipari even years later.
 
I stand corrected Mainman, apparently I didn't know the full story.
Thanks for the context guys. An interesting chapter in St. John's lore
 
I think I recall hearing that Cal called Lou to deny it and apologize for the rumor, and that Lou accepted it. Not sure any of that is true, or if Lou accepted but is privately pissed. I think Maven or son would be the ones to ask on that if you know how to find them.
 
When was Marcus Camby ever a SJU target?
Click to expand...
1991 92? Whenever he was in HS. Supposedly Calipari told him Lou had cancer or some other illness.
Admittedly I was 9 at the time, so I've only heard the story via third person accounts. But it's something that people around the program have said for years.
Maybe someone else who remembers more can fill in the details
Click to expand...

I don't believe the recruit(s) in question were Camby but a couple of other kids including one by the name of Branch. This goes back to when Cal was an assistant at Pitt. Others claim that it was Pitino who made up the story about Calipari and thus hurting both programs at the same time (Pitt and SJU). Supposedly it was Pitino who called Calipari out on this issue, not Looie. At the very least it has been confirmed by multiple people that the accusation was made against Cal at the Big East conf meetings at the time. 1986? But as I said, the way I heard it was that it was Pitino who was stirring up the accusations, not anyone from St. John's. As I recall, Jim Calhoun also made veiled allegations against Calipari as well during later dates where he used this issue to throw mud at Calipari even years later.
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Funny, I've never heard Pitino's name as disparaging Calipari. It would surprise me, since Calipari was a Pitino assistant, and like Donovan, a Pitino disciple. Supposedly it was Pitino who advised Calipari not to consider the SJU vacancy while at UMASS, telling him, you already have a better job than SJU.
 
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