Sorry to say but
- Thread starter redmanwest
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beast of the east
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In the Big East to have sustained success you have to recruit, recruit, recruit, recruit. The recruiting game has radically changed since very few players not getting serious run will stick around a program. The grad transfer game just accelerates recruiting since at least 2 to 3 positions on many very good teams are recruiting grad transfers for a single year. Throw in that super blue chip players only expect to play college for 1 or 2 seasons, and the churn is enormous.
Just another reason that we need an additional recruiter and the entire staff must be fully engaged.
Just another reason that we need an additional recruiter and the entire staff must be fully engaged.
[quote="Room112" post=329545][quote="Paultzman" post=329542]No reason not to expect success similar to or close to what a Seton Hall or Providence has attained in recent years. Dancing three years out of five would be nice as a starter to cast the program in a more positive light. In that period one would hope to make some noise in the NCAA T which has eluded both SH & Providence.
I think we will have to be patient next season and sense some roster turnover of substance. That said, let’s let season play out and perhaps my caution will be proven wrong. Beat DePaul to get this bad taste out of our mouths & go from there![/quote]
Maybe I'm being overly optimistic but I think we can have some success next year. It really all depends to me on #1 who returns and #2 if Mack can be a main contributor from day one. We just appear to be so much more well balanced, will have size, and plenty of depth.
Also another wild card is what happens with our coaching situation and if that leads current players to leave if Mullin decides to leave.[/quote]
Agree situation will have to play out on several levels. There are some question marks which will be clearer after season has concluded.
I think we will have to be patient next season and sense some roster turnover of substance. That said, let’s let season play out and perhaps my caution will be proven wrong. Beat DePaul to get this bad taste out of our mouths & go from there![/quote]
Maybe I'm being overly optimistic but I think we can have some success next year. It really all depends to me on #1 who returns and #2 if Mack can be a main contributor from day one. We just appear to be so much more well balanced, will have size, and plenty of depth.
Also another wild card is what happens with our coaching situation and if that leads current players to leave if Mullin decides to leave.[/quote]
Agree situation will have to play out on several levels. There are some question marks which will be clearer after season has concluded.
Storm Tracker
Well-known member
I'd take Cluess. Why not?
ErickTheRed
Member
Someone get on the phone and call Bobby Cremins ASAP!
[quote="dee" post=329546]Unfortunately Mullin cannot coach in college. Even Cleuss in Iona is better. This is not to say he cant improve but how long will it take?
Pick up the phone , call long distance and dial P I T I N O[/quote]
Right after coach’s brother died. Classy move.
Pick up the phone , call long distance and dial P I T I N O[/quote]
Right after coach’s brother died. Classy move.
beast of the east
Active member
Denny Crum
JohnnyFever
Active member
[quote="Marillac" post=329563][quote="dee" post=329546]Unfortunately Mullin cannot coach in college. Even Cleuss in Iona is better. This is not to say he cant improve but how long will it take?
Pick up the phone , call long distance and dial P I T I N O[/quote]
Right after coach’s brother died. Classy move.[/quote]
Two different subjects. There's another thread for the former.
Pick up the phone , call long distance and dial P I T I N O[/quote]
Right after coach’s brother died. Classy move.[/quote]
Two different subjects. There's another thread for the former.
JohnnyFever
Active member
[quote="Room112" post=329545][quote="Paultzman" post=329542]No reason not to expect success similar to or close to what a Seton Hall or Providence has attained in recent years. Dancing three years out of five would be nice as a starter to cast the program in a more positive light. In that period one would hope to make some noise in the NCAA T which has eluded both SH & Providence.
I think we will have to be patient next season and sense some roster turnover of substance. That said, let’s let season play out and perhaps my caution will be proven wrong. Beat DePaul to get this bad taste out of our mouths & go from there![/quote]
Maybe I'm being overly optimistic but I think we can have some success next year. It really all depends to me on #1 who returns and #2 if Mack can be a main contributor from day one. We just appear to be so much more well balanced, will have size, and plenty of depth.
Also another wild card is what happens with our coaching situation and if that leads current players to leave if Mullin decides to leave.[/quote]
Wouldn't expect as much stability with roster as hoped. Likely to lose a bunch unfortunately. Really tough to build programs with such frequent turnover and I think transfers aggravate that issue. Then you have guys who transfer several times like Owens and Dixon. We need some real legit 4 yr players who can contribute from day 1 and get better like Williams. By the time he's a senior, I'd expect him to be a damn good player with steady production. This is what Nova does so well. Transfers are good but in moderation IMO. Relying on them is a plan B out of necessity when top HS kids don't commit.
I think we will have to be patient next season and sense some roster turnover of substance. That said, let’s let season play out and perhaps my caution will be proven wrong. Beat DePaul to get this bad taste out of our mouths & go from there![/quote]
Maybe I'm being overly optimistic but I think we can have some success next year. It really all depends to me on #1 who returns and #2 if Mack can be a main contributor from day one. We just appear to be so much more well balanced, will have size, and plenty of depth.
Also another wild card is what happens with our coaching situation and if that leads current players to leave if Mullin decides to leave.[/quote]
Wouldn't expect as much stability with roster as hoped. Likely to lose a bunch unfortunately. Really tough to build programs with such frequent turnover and I think transfers aggravate that issue. Then you have guys who transfer several times like Owens and Dixon. We need some real legit 4 yr players who can contribute from day 1 and get better like Williams. By the time he's a senior, I'd expect him to be a damn good player with steady production. This is what Nova does so well. Transfers are good but in moderation IMO. Relying on them is a plan B out of necessity when top HS kids don't commit.
beast of the east
Active member
[quote="Monte" post=329569]Oh geez, really??????????????????[/quote]
We should wait at least until 3 pm or so when the body is in the ground or at least until the funeral mass is over today.
We should wait at least until 3 pm or so when the body is in the ground or at least until the funeral mass is over today.
We are all becoming conditioned to believe that all this turnover is somehow a new normal. I agree there is more turnover in the game overall but if this roster starts turning over yet again it is another sign of big problems. Look around, we play all the other Big East teams twice and become familiar with their players. There is no way any other team, including DePaul, has had the annual churn that SJU has had since Mullin became coach.
And so far, unlike when Harkless and Sampson left, the guys bolting (I'm not including Shamorie in this thought) had zero chance of every playing in the NBA.
And so far, unlike when Harkless and Sampson left, the guys bolting (I'm not including Shamorie in this thought) had zero chance of every playing in the NBA.
JohnnyFever
Active member
[quote="IDRAFT" post=329574]We are all becoming conditioned to believe that all this turnover is somehow a new normal. I agree there is more turnover in the game overall but if this roster starts turning over yet again it is another sign of big problems. Look around, we play all the other Big East teams twice and become familiar with their players. There is no way any other team, including DePaul, has had the annual churn that SJU has had since Mullin became coach.
And so far, unlike when Harkless and Sampson left, the guys bolting (I'm not including Shamorie in this thought) had zero chance of every playing in the NBA.[/quote]
100%...turnover is a new normal to an extent (keyword). Not to this degree however.
And so far, unlike when Harkless and Sampson left, the guys bolting (I'm not including Shamorie in this thought) had zero chance of every playing in the NBA.[/quote]
100%...turnover is a new normal to an extent (keyword). Not to this degree however.
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=329579][quote="IDRAFT" post=329574]We are all becoming conditioned to believe that all this turnover is somehow a new normal. I agree there is more turnover in the game overall but if this roster starts turning over yet again it is another sign of big problems. Look around, we play all the other Big East teams twice and become familiar with their players. There is no way any other team, including DePaul, has had the annual churn that SJU has had since Mullin became coach.
And so far, unlike when Harkless and Sampson left, the guys bolting (I'm not including Shamorie in this thought) had zero chance of every playing in the NBA.[/quote]
100%...turnover is a new normal to an extent (keyword). Not to this degree however.[/quote]
I think the number of transfers averages to about 1 player, per team, per year. We have about 2 or 3 guys leave every year.
To make it worse, some of the guys who left, like Sima, Dixon, and Yakwe, were getting decent to good playing time (Ellison too, but that was more understandable).
And so far, unlike when Harkless and Sampson left, the guys bolting (I'm not including Shamorie in this thought) had zero chance of every playing in the NBA.[/quote]
100%...turnover is a new normal to an extent (keyword). Not to this degree however.[/quote]
I think the number of transfers averages to about 1 player, per team, per year. We have about 2 or 3 guys leave every year.
To make it worse, some of the guys who left, like Sima, Dixon, and Yakwe, were getting decent to good playing time (Ellison too, but that was more understandable).
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frankingeneral
Member
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=329579][quote="IDRAFT" post=329574]We are all becoming conditioned to believe that all this turnover is somehow a new normal. I agree there is more turnover in the game overall but if this roster starts turning over yet again it is another sign of big problems. Look around, we play all the other Big East teams twice and become familiar with their players. There is no way any other team, including DePaul, has had the annual churn that SJU has had since Mullin became coach.
And so far, unlike when Harkless and Sampson left, the guys bolting (I'm not including Shamorie in this thought) had zero chance of every playing in the NBA.[/quote]
100%...turnover is a new normal to an extent (keyword). Not to this degree however.[/quote]
I'll third this. Other programs have turnover, and bring in transfers, but definitely not to the extent we do. I think before Dixon left we had the most transfers under scholarship of any D-1 program.
And with regards to transfers-out, it goes back to the recurring problem that this staff has no clue how to manage the bench and distribute minutes properly. It was clear in pre-season that the freshmen were going to have to contribute for depth purposes, and we've seen that at least 2 of them are more than capable of contributing (Roberts & Williams). Why weren't they getting developmental minutes against the cupcakes, knowing you'd need their depth later in the season? Same with Dixon. He was averaging 17 minutes a game, and he gets effectively benched for the first 2 BE games?! Unless he told staff he was transferring before the start of Big East play, it just makes zero sense how the minutes get distributed.
And so far, unlike when Harkless and Sampson left, the guys bolting (I'm not including Shamorie in this thought) had zero chance of every playing in the NBA.[/quote]
100%...turnover is a new normal to an extent (keyword). Not to this degree however.[/quote]
I'll third this. Other programs have turnover, and bring in transfers, but definitely not to the extent we do. I think before Dixon left we had the most transfers under scholarship of any D-1 program.
And with regards to transfers-out, it goes back to the recurring problem that this staff has no clue how to manage the bench and distribute minutes properly. It was clear in pre-season that the freshmen were going to have to contribute for depth purposes, and we've seen that at least 2 of them are more than capable of contributing (Roberts & Williams). Why weren't they getting developmental minutes against the cupcakes, knowing you'd need their depth later in the season? Same with Dixon. He was averaging 17 minutes a game, and he gets effectively benched for the first 2 BE games?! Unless he told staff he was transferring before the start of Big East play, it just makes zero sense how the minutes get distributed.
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[quote="P Simmons" post=329583]Really?? Today????
I get that there's a lot of pent-up anger, much of it justified. But can we not wait until the season is truly good and over, especially in light of personal circumstances? Until then, you can content yourselves with sharpening your knives.[/quote]
Yeah, no more in season firings please, unless there are serious off-court issues.
At the time, I supported firing Jarvis when we did, but that turned out to be a mistake.
I get that there's a lot of pent-up anger, much of it justified. But can we not wait until the season is truly good and over, especially in light of personal circumstances? Until then, you can content yourselves with sharpening your knives.[/quote]
Yeah, no more in season firings please, unless there are serious off-court issues.
At the time, I supported firing Jarvis when we did, but that turned out to be a mistake.
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