SJU Transfer Targets/Possibilities
- Thread starter paultzman
- Start date
No knock against Mathis who many regard as a top notch defender and quality prospect. However, his offensive numbers paint a picture of inefficiency. It's likely why his minutes were cut.
2020-2021 Statistics
[attachment=2085]GWill Compare.png[/attachment]
2020-2021 Statistics
[attachment=2085]GWill Compare.png[/attachment]
Last edited:
MakingPlays
Well-known member
NCJohnnie post=432014 said:
There's a kid named Manuale Watkins, who started on a 26 win CMA team (that team won a tournament game), going into his senior season he averaged 2.2 PPG, Shot 0% from 3 (yes that's correct), and 47% from the free throw line in 20 MPG. When he checked out you noticed the difference, he was the leader of that defense and they were really good on defense when he was in the game and it made a world of difference, he is an all time fan favorite now, and now does some broadcasting for the Razorbacks. So, before you guys are so quick to dismiss defensive players and say you don't care how good their defense is do some research on the impact defensive minded guys can make on a team, you don't have to every guard on your team shooting 40% from 3 to be a good team. And to finish Manuale's story, he ended up working on his game going into his senior season, and went from a 0% 3 point shooter to a 46% 3 point shooter (small sample size) but nonetheless that just shows you can't dismiss a player because his shooting numbers aren't great, if he does other things really well.
[URL]https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/manuale-watkins-1.html[/URL]
Johnny4Life
Member
Mathis might not be an upgrade over Greg. However, he might be an upgrade over Dunn.
Now that being said, I agree we still need an extra shooter.
Now that being said, I agree we still need an extra shooter.
Last edited:
Making Plays post=432032 said:
Making plays, he was a career 53% fg shooter. Mathis is at 38% through 3 years. Not dismissing your post as not having merit, but you put too many non shooters around posh and I think it really limits his potential. Also worth noting, Watkins has a career 2:1 Assist:To ration while Mathis’ is negative. Not remembering him play, was he more of a PG or a SG? Cause one position usually needs to shoot it better than the other. Mathis is definitely not a pg.
You can NEVER have too many guys who can shoot the ball. On the contrary, if you have two guys who can’t, that might be one too many. JMHO
I love CMA, he’s got my full support. Was there ever a time you followed him where you thought his players lack of shooting cost you a good season?
Last edited:
I wanted to see if there were some analytics that would give us some insight into their defense. Just a quick glance at something called DPM shows that Williams could be close here as well. They both had a drop off in there junior seasons which in Williams case could be a result of his injury.
[URL]https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/montez-mathis-1.html#all_players_advanced[/URL]
[URL]https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/greg-williamsjr-1.html[/URL]=13pxI
I trust the staff’s judgment in adding Mills and at his best looks like an elite defender just not that much better than Greg.
[URL]https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/montez-mathis-1.html#all_players_advanced[/URL]
[URL]https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/greg-williamsjr-1.html[/URL]=13pxI
I trust the staff’s judgment in adding Mills and at his best looks like an elite defender just not that much better than Greg.
Last edited:
boo haarvey
Active member
Johnny4Life post=432040 said:
Not really a great comparison when you take a look at the actual numbers:Making Plays post=432032 said:
Manuale was 0-0, 0-7, 0-1 in his first three years beyond the arc. That's EIGHT ATTEMPTS in 3 full seasons. That doesn't show whether he can shoot or not, it shows that he doesn't shoot from deep.
Mathis, by comparison, has 205 attempts from beyond the arc in his 3 seasons. First year he made 24%, year two he made 29.7%, year three he also made 29.7%. That's not good, but its enough of a sample size to conclude that shooting 3's isn't his forte. Could he improve? Sure. But its a lottery ticket. You are hoping he gets hot or finds that part of his game. And as an old boss of my was fond of pointing out, "Hope, is not a strategy."
Candidly, if he's that good defensively, then he doesn't have to be able to shoot from deep. The stat that we should be worried about with him is that he's career 55% free throw shooter. If you are a slasher, you can't be Shaq at the charity stripe. Otherwise you are a walking "turnover" or empty trip when their defense needs a stop.
I have no problems taking a defensive specialist, I do have issues with giving huge minutes to guys who can be ignored by the defense in a half court scenario. But hey, that's me. If the staff wants him, then go get him.
Anthony Mattia
Well-known member
Any of you guys remember a kid named Roosevelt Jones that went to Butler? Not only could he not shoot, he never even attempted a 3 pointer in his college career. He killed us and couldn't shoot at all. He wasn't very tall and couldn't jump over a piece of paper. While I agree we need guys that can score, and that basketball has gone 3 point crazy, there are other ways to put the ball in the hoop.
At this point I am willing to trust the staff to put guys in positions to best help the team and that best suit their abilities.
At this point I am willing to trust the staff to put guys in positions to best help the team and that best suit their abilities.
Anthony Mattia post=432050 said:
Look at how many assists Jones averaged. It is so much different when you’re the guy with the ball in his hands.
MakingPlays
Well-known member
He averaged 2.2 PPG lol. He didn't shoot the ball at all. He was nonexistent on offense and made a huge impact on the game. That's my whole point, everybody is getting caught up in the "Oh he can't shoot" you don't have to all 5 scorers on the court to be a successful team, that's why there are role players.Amaseinyourface post=432042 said:
You figure Posh, Smith, Champ, and Soriano are starters. All 4 of those guys are double digit scorers. Smith and Champ are probably going to be close to 40% 3 point shooters, Posh from the end of the season looks like he's going to be a mid 30's 3 point shooter, so you have shooters on the court, you don't have to have 5 three point specialist on the court to be a good, last year is a good example, the starting lineup for most of the first part of the year was Posh, Williams, Cole, Champ, and Moore. All 5 guys could shoot the 3 ball, and they didn't make the tournament their struggles were on the defensive end, obviously the staff noticed that and going out to make improvements on that end. You add a guy like Mathias to the lineup that comes in with a defensive mindset, that's more than fine, I'm pretty sure their recruiting pitch to him is to come in and be a defensive guy, not a double digit scorer. If he takes 5 shots a game and misses all 5 of those shots, but he is key in stopping 6 shots on the the defensive end, that's a net positive to what he brings to the table.
And to answer your other question no, his teams can always score, that's never been an issue, his teams are always going to averaged 75+ PPG, just by the way the play and getting so many possessions. The seasons where he didn't make the tournament have either been rebuilding years, or years where he didn't have any depth and they struggled playing good defensively for 40 minutes.
Anthony Mattia
Well-known member
Amaseinyourface post=432051 said:
Anthony Mattia post=432054 said:
It’s from watching him. And I agree he was fantastic player. He was absolutely their primary facilitator in the half court. Don’t have to be the “PG” to be that. So him not being a shooter isn’t as much of an issue. He has to be guarded cause he had the ball making plays for himself and others. It’s different.
Your rebounding point is a non sequitur. Point guards havnt averaged high number of rebounds before? Shooting guards havnt out rebounded small forwards? And one doesn’t havnt to be a point guard to be a good facilitator. That’s my main point. We have our facilitators. The guys on the wings need to be threats to shoot for us to maximize our potential IMO.
Mathis assist numbers don’t show a distributor. So when he doesn’t have the ball is he going have to be guarded? I’m not going to complain or be upset if he chooses us. I’d be happy actually. Just talking about all the options.
Last edited:
If the staff likes Montez and thinks he can make the team better then I'm all for it.
Seems to me that it would be valuable to either start a 6'4" lockdown defender next to Posh or to bring that guy in situationally if you think Stef Smith gives you more offense.
I suspect that when you factor in size and defense, Posh+Smith+Mathis is probably as good or better than Posh+Dunn+Cole, say.
I also think that posters have a tendency to look at each player as 'it" while the staff looks at each player as part of a whole. And they have room for more players.
Seems to me that it would be valuable to either start a 6'4" lockdown defender next to Posh or to bring that guy in situationally if you think Stef Smith gives you more offense.
I suspect that when you factor in size and defense, Posh+Smith+Mathis is probably as good or better than Posh+Dunn+Cole, say.
I also think that posters have a tendency to look at each player as 'it" while the staff looks at each player as part of a whole. And they have room for more players.
Zach B
Seeing a lot of debate from St. John's fans about Montez Mathis, the former Rutgers guard who is considering #sjubb. Feel he is similar to Greg Williams Jr., talented player who has yet to break out and realize his full potential. Also think perfect for the system. Elite athlete.
We'll see if Mathis picks St. John's. But I think this would be a good get for the Johnnies. Would be another guy, much like Aaron Wheeler and some of the freshmen coming in, that really fit the style. #sjubb
Seeing a lot of debate from St. John's fans about Montez Mathis, the former Rutgers guard who is considering #sjubb. Feel he is similar to Greg Williams Jr., talented player who has yet to break out and realize his full potential. Also think perfect for the system. Elite athlete.
We'll see if Mathis picks St. John's. But I think this would be a good get for the Johnnies. Would be another guy, much like Aaron Wheeler and some of the freshmen coming in, that really fit the style. #sjubb
Last edited by a moderator:
redfanUpooooooo
Active member
Heard nothing about the transfer update on Desi Sills the guard CMA recruited to Arkansas. Any new info there?
There is no doubt there are ways to contribute beyond scoring, but you are talking about a role player. A guy who isn't on the floor in the last 10 min of a close game because he can't execute in the half court by being a threat to make an open 3 or by getting to the FT line and converting. Is that how you see him fitting in here? As a utility guy? Like Rutherford was last year?Making Plays post=432052 said:
Or do you expect him to play 25min? I'm guessing he expects that.
Look, I trust the staff. If they think his defense is invaluable, or that they can coach him up to 35% as an outside shooter and 70% at the stripe, then go get him. He'll be a great fit. But if I'm coach I'd be very clear about whats expected of him. If he's shooting 29% & 55% when we hit the conference schedule in January, he's going to lose minutes. This kid (and Wusu) should spend the next 6 months shooting FT's and 3's until they can't lift their arms anymore.