SJU Tip-Off Event

[quote="Mike Zaun" post=360477][quote="Red Bloods" post=360475][quote="JohnnyFan" post=360251]Takeaways from the scrimmage:

Pleasant Surprise
Dunn
Champagnie

Still Awesome
LJ
Heron

I Need to See More
Carraher
Roberts
Sears

Best New Addition
Steere

Ho Hum
Rutherford

Not a BE Level Player
Earlington -Sorry, it's just the truth[/quote]
U are WAY off on Earlington. Cant wait to watch him prove u wrong.[/quote]

If I'm being optimistic I'll agree with the above assessment. If I'm being realistic and had money on it, Caraher, Roberts, Sear, Rutherford, and Earlington would be on my "probably not Big East material but hope to god they are" list. As always, I'll be very happy to eat crow in front of everyone if I'm wrong. The only players that seem to be safe in terms of contributing significantly at the Big East level are: LJ, Heron, Williams, Steere, and Dunn. Everyone else is a major question mark. Earlington seems like a great teammate, but I don't see him as more than a garbage time guy against similar competition. He will get more minutes against the low and mid major teams. Just not sure what anyone has seen from him that makes them think he can really contribute statistically. Not a knock on him, just my opinion based on observation.[/quote]LOL
 
A tip off scrimmage is somewhere in the category of lay up line and NBA all star game. Little defense, and designed so everyone can look good and have fun. If you take away anything, number 1 is don't take away very much.
 
[quote="Red Bloods" post=360580][quote="Mike Zaun" post=360477][quote="Red Bloods" post=360475][quote="JohnnyFan" post=360251]Takeaways from the scrimmage:

Pleasant Surprise
Dunn
Champagnie

Still Awesome
LJ
Heron

I Need to See More
Carraher
Roberts
Sears

Best New Addition
Steere

Ho Hum
Rutherford

Not a BE Level Player
Earlington -Sorry, it's just the truth[/quote]
U are WAY off on Earlington. Cant wait to watch him prove u wrong.[/quote]

If I'm being optimistic I'll agree with the above assessment. If I'm being realistic and had money on it, Caraher, Roberts, Sear, Rutherford, and Earlington would be on my "probably not Big East material but hope to god they are" list. As always, I'll be very happy to eat crow in front of everyone if I'm wrong. The only players that seem to be safe in terms of contributing significantly at the Big East level are: LJ, Heron, Williams, Steere, and Dunn. Everyone else is a major question mark. Earlington seems like a great teammate, but I don't see him as more than a garbage time guy against similar competition. He will get more minutes against the low and mid major teams. Just not sure what anyone has seen from him that makes them think he can really contribute statistically. Not a knock on him, just my opinion based on observation.[/quote]LOL[/quote]

Not sure what's so absurd about what I said. In fact, I'd be willing to bet major pundits would agree with my predictions on the above. Not saying they're always right either obviously, but aside from LJ, Heron, Steere, Dunn, Williams, not sure what evidence you have that anyone else will be successful here with a real impact.
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=360586][quote="Red Bloods" post=360580][quote="Mike Zaun" post=360477][quote="Red Bloods" post=360475][quote="JohnnyFan" post=360251]Takeaways from the scrimmage:

Pleasant Surprise
Dunn
Champagnie

Still Awesome
LJ
Heron

I Need to See More
Carraher
Roberts
Sears

Best New Addition
Steere

Ho Hum
Rutherford

Not a BE Level Player
Earlington -Sorry, it's just the truth[/quote]
U are WAY off on Earlington. Cant wait to watch him prove u wrong.[/quote]

If I'm being optimistic I'll agree with the above assessment. If I'm being realistic and had money on it, Caraher, Roberts, Sear, Rutherford, and Earlington would be on my "probably not Big East material but hope to god they are" list. As always, I'll be very happy to eat crow in front of everyone if I'm wrong. The only players that seem to be safe in terms of contributing significantly at the Big East level are: LJ, Heron, Williams, Steere, and Dunn. Everyone else is a major question mark. Earlington seems like a great teammate, but I don't see him as more than a garbage time guy against similar competition. He will get more minutes against the low and mid major teams. Just not sure what anyone has seen from him that makes them think he can really contribute statistically. Not a knock on him, just my opinion based on observation.[/quote]LOL[/quote]

Not sure what's so absurd about what I said. In fact, I'd be willing to bet major pundits would agree with my predictions on the above. Not saying they're always right either obviously, but aside from LJ, Heron, Steere, Dunn, Williams, not sure what evidence you have that anyone else will be successful here with a real impact.[/quote]

Actually, there are a ton of question marks. We lost 3 starters from a team that essentially went 5 deep. Heron did not have a great Big East campaign in a new conference, so it remains to be seen how he does as the man. LJ was more in a support role, and did very well, but wasn't counted on as a second option on offense. The other guys, well we won't know till we see them play.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=360581]A tip off scrimmage is somewhere in the category of lay up line and NBA all star game. Little defense, and designed so everyone can look good and have fun. If you take away anything, number 1 is don't take away very much.[/quote]
Agree except would change little defense to NO defense.
 
[quote="Red Bloods" post=360580][quote="Mike Zaun" post=360477][quote="Red Bloods" post=360475][quote="JohnnyFan" post=360251]Takeaways from the scrimmage:

Pleasant Surprise
Dunn
Champagnie

Still Awesome
LJ
Heron

I Need to See More
Carraher
Roberts
Sears

Best New Addition
Steere

Ho Hum
Rutherford

Not a BE Level Player
Earlington -Sorry, it's just the truth[/quote]
U are WAY off on Earlington. Cant wait to watch him prove u wrong.[/quote]

If I'm being optimistic I'll agree with the above assessment. If I'm being realistic and had money on it, Caraher, Roberts, Sear, Rutherford, and Earlington would be on my "probably not Big East material but hope to god they are" list. As always, I'll be very happy to eat crow in front of everyone if I'm wrong. The only players that seem to be safe in terms of contributing significantly at the Big East level are: LJ, Heron, Williams, Steere, and Dunn. Everyone else is a major question mark. Earlington seems like a great teammate, but I don't see him as more than a garbage time guy against similar competition. He will get more minutes against the low and mid major teams. Just not sure what anyone has seen from him that makes them think he can really contribute statistically. Not a knock on him, just my opinion based on observation.[/quote]LOL[/quote]

Sorry Mike but my only concerns are Rutherford and Spears who were rented at the 11th hour and for a short period and I am very grateful for both their commitments. I believe every one else will be a big east contributor though at different levels, and I am not saying stars. Remember Norms 2 and 3 star recruits they all improved and were good as seniors. Well I have zero doubt that each of Earlington , Roberts, Williams, Carraher , Champagne etc Will all improve under the best basketball coach we have had in a long time who also happens to be very disciplined and demanding. And in time I have no doubt that the team will be comprised of higher ranking players.
 
[quote="redmannorth" post=360600][quote="Red Bloods" post=360580][quote="Mike Zaun" post=360477][quote="Red Bloods" post=360475][quote="JohnnyFan" post=360251]Takeaways from the scrimmage:

Pleasant Surprise
Dunn
Champagnie

Still Awesome
LJ
Heron

I Need to See More
Carraher
Roberts
Sears

Best New Addition
Steere

Ho Hum
Rutherford

Not a BE Level Player
Earlington -Sorry, it's just the truth[/quote]
U are WAY off on Earlington. Cant wait to watch him prove u wrong.[/quote]

If I'm being optimistic I'll agree with the above assessment. If I'm being realistic and had money on it, Caraher, Roberts, Sear, Rutherford, and Earlington would be on my "probably not Big East material but hope to god they are" list. As always, I'll be very happy to eat crow in front of everyone if I'm wrong. The only players that seem to be safe in terms of contributing significantly at the Big East level are: LJ, Heron, Williams, Steere, and Dunn. Everyone else is a major question mark. Earlington seems like a great teammate, but I don't see him as more than a garbage time guy against similar competition. He will get more minutes against the low and mid major teams. Just not sure what anyone has seen from him that makes them think he can really contribute statistically. Not a knock on him, just my opinion based on observation.[/quote]LOL[/quote]

Sorry Mike but my only concerns are Rutherford and Spears who were rented at the 11th hour and for a short period and I am very grateful for both their commitments. I believe every one else will be a big east contributor though at different levels, and I am not saying stars. Remember Norms 2 and 3 star recruits they all improved and were good as seniors. Well I have zero doubt that each of Earlington , Roberts, Williams, Carraher , Champagne etc Will all improve under the best basketball coach we have had in a long time who also happens to be very disciplined and demanding. And in time I have no doubt that the team will be comprised of higher ranking players.[/quote]

Agree that our players should improve with our solid staff, however if you have lower-rated players, sometimes their ceiling is just lower. Doesn't mean they don't work hard or aren't great people. Just don't see any objective stats that show or even suggest that Earlington will be a sure thing contributor at this level. From the admittedly small sample size I've seen, he seems to give us maybe slightly better production than a walk-on would. That's not an attack or an insult, that's just factual as of right now. Maybe he blows up somehow and becomes a stud and obviously I hope he does, but I'm not sure that several of these guys would be on Big East rosters at all if it weren't for us taking whomever we could get to fill holes. It's okay to admit that the talent is not there this year most likely. I think CMA can do very well given that he gets good recruits consistently, however he's not a miracle worker. Give Jim Boeheim or coach K the same roster and I doubt it's an NIT team. We are rebuilding and that's okay. We will need some real studs and lots of them though if we want to seriously compete consistently in this conference.
 
I've entered St. John's seasons with:
-one scorer (Walter Berry 86, Mark Jackson 87, Shelton Jones 88, Malik Sealy 91, 92, Marcus Hatten),
-no scorer (Davis Cain's SR year),
-and a whole bunch of mediocre scorers (Lav's first year b4 Hardy's emergence).

So I'm pretty bullish that we're going in with TWO proven scorers.
 
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In addition to Berry, the '86 team had 3 other players average double figures in scoring: Rowan, Glass, and Jackson. You don't win 31 games with one scorer. Jackson averaged 19 ppg in '87, but that team also had Glass average 17 ppg and Jones average 15 ppg.
 
[quote="Red Bloods" post=360475][quote="JohnnyFan" post=360251]Takeaways from the scrimmage:

Pleasant Surprise
Dunn
Champagnie

Still Awesome
LJ
Heron

I Need to See More
Carraher
Roberts
Sears

Best New Addition
Steere

Ho Hum
Rutherford

Not a BE Level Player
Earlington -Sorry, it's just the truth[/quote]
U are WAY off on Earlington. Cant wait to watch him prove u wrong.[/quote]

I would prefer you to be right on this. So far, I am just not seeing it.
 
[quote="TheSummit" post=360633]In addition to Berry, the '86 team had 3 other players average double figures in scoring: Rowan, Glass, and Jackson. You don't win 31 games with one scorer. Jackson averaged 19 ppg in '87, but that team also had Glass average 17 ppg and Jones average 15 ppg.[/quote]

No kidding.

But entering 86 we had one sure thing: Berry.
Glass was a returning starter but was wildly inconsistent and showed no offensive game prior.
Jackson couldn’t start over Mike Moses.
Rowan was a complete unknown.
Shelton showed some promise in 85, not much else.

My point is guys emerge, sometimes from the least likely of places. No one in their wildest dreams thought the 86 team would be even close to what it became. But Jackson, Rowan and Glass emerged big time.

I think we enter this season with two sure things: LJ and Heron. That’s not a bad place to start. Let’s see who emerges from the rest.
 
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[quote="MainMan" post=360714][quote="TheSummit" post=360633]In addition to Berry, the '86 team had 3 other players average double figures in scoring: Rowan, Glass, and Jackson. You don't win 31 games with one scorer. Jackson averaged 19 ppg in '87, but that team also had Glass average 17 ppg and Jones average 15 ppg.[/quote]

No kidding.

But entering 86 we had one sure thing: Berry.
Glass was a returning starter but was wildly inconsistent and showed no offensive game prior.
Jackson couldn’t start over Mike Moses.
Rowan was a complete unknown.
Shelton showed some promise in 85, not much else.

My point is guys emerge, sometimes from the least likely of places. No one in their wildest dreams thought the 86 team would be even close to what it became. But Jackson, Rowan and Glass emerged big time.

I think we enter this season with two sure things: LJ and Heron. That’s not a bad place to start. Let’s see who emerges from the rest.[/quote]

Yes Berry was a sure thing to be a star but each of Jackson, Glass, Jones and Rowan were high to very highly ranked recruits. It was a pleasant surprise but certainly no shock that they all stepped up once given far more pt and they all had a few years of experience under their belt.
We have our two stars this season but I will be shocked if anyone other than Dunn or Steere can average 10 points a game. The rest were not highly ranked and don’t have enough pt to shine this season. However, as I have said before I do expect every player on this team to contribute in some meaningful way this season. It would be a big shame if any of Dunn , Steere or Williams were unable to play from day 1. Time will tell.
 
The '85 team had Mullin and Wennington and without them in '86, the others stepped up as expected. Glass was a 4 year starter, Rowan was essentially Mullin's and Glass' back-up and got little time but showed ability, and Jackson started alongside Moses later in 84. It was Coach C's decision to start Moses over Jackson, similar to his decision to start Bob Kelly over Kevin Williams a few years earlier. In addition to scoring, Jackson led the country in assists in '86. All had ability and experience coming into the season, so their performances did not surprise. Certainly Berry was the main guy and was named National Player of the Year, but the success of that team was not all due to him. A weakness of that team was lack of quality depth.
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=360749][attachment=1118]EE81CC30-4057-4305-9E01-7AB32613BBB8.jpeg[/attachment][/quote]
Great shot ... but for a moment, I thought I was looking at Frankie Lyman & the Teenagers (who were fabulous, by the way).
 
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[quote="TheSummit" post=360728]The '85 team had Mullin and Wennington and without them in '86, the others stepped up as expected. Glass was a 4 year starter, Rowan was essentially Mullin's and Glass' back-up and got little time but showed ability, and Jackson started alongside Moses later in 84. It was Coach C's decision to start Moses over Jackson, similar to his decision to start Bob Kelly over Kevin Williams a few years earlier. In addition to scoring, Jackson led the country in assists in '86. All had ability and experience coming into the season, so their performances did not surprise. Certainly Berry was the main guy and was named National Player of the Year, but the success of that team was not all due to him. A weakness of that team was lack of quality depth.[/quote]
Rowan, aside from being Mullin's backup had his chance to start in '85-'86 (14+ ppg & 4+ apg), and made one of the biggest, most clutch baskets in St. John's history.
 
I heard the players are concerned that school might take proactice action on program regarding this "frathouse".

As well, coach may have tough case to keep job given the poor w-l record and now this.
 
[quote="redken" post=360767][quote="Paultzman" post=360749][attachment=1118]EE81CC30-4057-4305-9E01-7AB32613BBB8.jpeg[/attachment][/quote]
[F]or a moment, I thought I was looking at Frankie Lyman & the Teenagers.[/quote]

Only fools fall in love with this program.:lol:
 
Earlington is a BEAST off the bench & on the glass and we don't beat Arizona without him. And like i said u would see great improvement from Roberts as well.(***cough, cough***)
 
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