SJU Structural Problems

[Alumni Hall]

Yes, the original donor was and has been a loyal donor to the University and is a GREAT GUY! I also heard that Doh was going to become the new coach, but at the last minute, the committee decided to look elsewhere. As for the money being actually donated for the basketball facility, I had heard it was pulled once they chose Roberts. The practice gym WAS going to be named for the origional donor I was told. The facility once budgeted for 23 mil with all the bells and whistles, was downgraded to I believe 14-16 mil but it then had to include rec sports and intramural as per Harrington. 
The building was further delayed one year as a design problem arose which necessitated the building's footprint to be dramatically reduced by 50% with the men's/women's team areas, coaches offices, weight rooms and sports medicine made smaller. That's why Taffner is the way it is today. As each new MBB coaching staff came in after Roberts, they were allowed to make cosmetic changes (new lockers, showers, logos) but the small footprint could never be increased. The only way the space can be increased is to build out towards the lacrosse field on the grass area by the tennis courts for one team and then renovate the existing facility for whichever team stays. That project is BIG bucks and would take 2-3 years to design and build.

 

[RedStormNC]

Here's the aerial visual of the green space AJ Hidell is noting between Taffner & the tennis courts/track [attachment=1841]Queens 9_1600x900.jpg[/attachment]

 

[RedStormNC]

Belmont (UBS Arena) posting pics of the inside.  They note it will have the largest lower bowl capacity in metro area

Think it would be interesting to play non-conf cupcakes at Carnesecca, less draw Big East match ups @ UBS/Belmont and then marquee games at MSG.

https://twitter.com/UBSArena/status/1350117624492011521?s=20

 

 

[beast of the east]

Yes, the original donor was and has been a loyal donor to the University and is a GREAT GUY! I also heard that Doh was going to become the new coach, but at the last minute, the committee decided to look elsewhere. As for the money being actually donated for the basketball facility, I had heard it was pulled once they chose Roberts. The practice gym WAS going to be named for the origional donor I was told. The facility once budgeted for 23 mil with all the bells and whistles, was downgraded to I believe 14-16 mil but it then had to include rec sports and intramural as per Harrington. 
The building was further delayed one year as a design problem arose which necessitated the building's footprint to be dramatically reduced by 50% with the men's/women's team areas, coaches offices, weight rooms and sports medicine made smaller. That's why Taffner is the way it is today. As each new MBB coaching staff came in after Roberts, they were allowed to make cosmetic changes (new lockers, showers, logos) but the small footprint could never be increased. The only way the space can be increased is to build out towards the lacrosse field on the grass area by the tennis courts for one team and then renovate the existing facility for whichever team stays. That project is BIG bucks and would take 2-3 years to design and build.


Please pm me
 

 

[SJU85]

Re SJU, why is it so difficult for us to be a program like SH, a dump in NJ w ratty facilities like us, limited recruiting $? This is not about aspiring for national championship for God’s sake

paultzman...SHU has ratty facilities? have you EVER been to SHU? Have you seen their team locker rooms (3-4 x the size of ours), video room (we do not have a dedicated film/video room as ours is shared by all 17 teams and is also used for athletic dept staff meetings and athletic snack area for all sports)  coaches offices there are huge with each coach having their own office compared to Taffner where two coaches rooms have 3 staff members in them each, sports medicine has underwater treadmills with video and separate recovery rooms and their basketball athletic trainers EACH have their own private offices, not a desk in the corner of a cramped Room like ours does-3 feet away from athletes getting taped each day and weight room is  huge and much nicer , player lounges are nice (ours is a fridge and two couches) Have you seen the inside of their facility at the Prudential Center? They have the Nets NBA facility ALL TO THEMSELVES, huge NBA locker room, their own training room, weight room, coaches lockers, players lounge. We dress in the Knicks and Rangers locker rooms, and must usually exit the room quickly postgame for the next event. SJU cannot even store towels, water bottles, cups, Gatorade, balls, energy bars at MSG. They must pack and bring everything needed on game day EVERY GAME! In all phases, both on campus and at The Rock, we are not even close to them. If you are a recruit or parent and  care about facilities and the bells and whistles, we are at the bottom of the Conference.

Thank you (and I believe you also did previously on another thread) of going into even more details why I've said that Taffner was outdated, two small, cramped and constructed with inferior materials since it opened. 

I'll start by saying that I've never been in Taffner Fieldhouse. How old is it? How much did it cost, and did the Taffner donation cover most of the cost?
I understand the problems with Carnesecca Arena, which is 56 years old, but why is a relatively new 

Too long a story for here...17 years old, 3 mil of the 16 mil cost was donated by Taffners. Originally planned to be a nice 23 mil facility just for hoops programs, but things happened.

If built to its original purpose and the $23M price tag, we might not be having this discussion outside some nominal upgrades you would expect to make over the course of time.
 

 

[19854ever]

AJ great job , all your posts are spot on. 17 years later and the ramifications of the disaster of the norm hire still rage on. What kills me still to this day is the damage that "revered" coach did to our program. His enablers old fan 61, Ron Rutledge and others need ther  head examined. 

 

[19854ever]

Add Brandon Tierney to that list of influential Nom enablers. 

 

[Moose]

Add Brandon Tierney to that list of influential Nom enablers. 

Brandon Tierney?
in 2004 Brandon Tierney had as little influence as one could have. And I don't mean to demean him at all but it's a fact. 

Nice guy but he doesn't carry influence even now 

 

[beast of the east]

AJ, ruling out that you are Lee Harvey Oswald (great name), the fact that all of your information both historically and current, is accurate, makes me wonder how close to the AD you are.   The team room, which is multi-purpose was completely remodeled for that use as part of the HOF room remake.   I think you are dead on about the reduction of Taffner, and I think this was largely due to Harrington not having an interest in sports, and even less after the Pittsburgh debacle and how both Fraschilla and Jarvis became prima donna's.   I'm not aware of what the plans were, but obviously we could have used the additional space as you describe.

In another thread, it was mentioned that if MC were to leave no big deal.   I think it would be a huge deal, because this guy knows exactly what we need to build competitive programs.    Hiring someone to replace him from big conference school will require not only a better salary as a lure, but an adjustment for cost of living.   We would almost for certain have to pluck a lower ranking admnistrator from a big conference school, or deal with a guy who was an AD from a lesser or mid major conference who wouldn't recognize what we need to remain competitive right away.

Our best hope is that Father Shanley makes atheltic department improvements a high priority, but as a fan, that may be too myopic to hope for.   I'm going to guess that improvements necessary will require new construction (not a new arena), and would cost upwards of 25 million to correct the deficiencies as noted.    MC was in charge of facilities and athletic fundraising at Duke to my knowledge, so I would hope he is around here for a project such as this. 

 

[jerseyshorejohnny]

Here's the aerial visual of the green space AJ Hidell is noting between Taffner & the tennis courts/track [attachment=1841]Queens 9_1600x900.jpg[/attachment]

Another option is the space between Taffner and Carnesecca
 

 

[Las Vegan]

Here's the aerial visual of the green space AJ Hidell is noting between Taffner & the tennis courts/track [attachment=1841]Queens 9_1600x900.jpg[/attachment]

Another option is the space between Taffner and Carnesecca

Looking at that campus aerial view, it doesn't appear to be very well planned. For example, why are there separate fields for soccer and lacrosse? Soccer is a fall sport and lacrosse plays in the spring.

 

 

[Moose]

Here's the aerial visual of the green space AJ Hidell is noting between Taffner & the tennis courts/track [attachment=1841]Queens 9_1600x900.jpg[/attachment]

Another option is the space between Taffner and Carnesecca

Looking at that campus aerial view, it doesn't appear to be very well planned. For example, why are there separate fields for soccer and lacrosse? Soccer is a fall sport and lacrosse plays in the spring.


 

Because Masur wouldnt allow the soccer field to be shared I recall.

 

[beast of the east]

Here's the aerial visual of the green space AJ Hidell is noting between Taffner & the tennis courts/track [attachment=1841]Queens 9_1600x900.jpg[/attachment]

Another option is the space between Taffner and Carnesecca

Looking at that campus aerial view, it doesn't appear to be very well planned. For example, why are there separate fields for soccer and lacrosse? Soccer is a fall sport and lacrosse plays in the spring.



 

Because Masur wouldnt allow the soccer field to be shared I recall.

That completely plausible, but in general, we have to remember that historically, St. John's had the LOWEST tuition of any private school in the NYC area by a very wide margin.    When they built the campus, I believe St. John's Hall was the first building.  It is a a beautiful stone edifice, not too different from the austere and dignified campuses of many fine universities.    Cost cutting was always a priority, so when the Marillac was built, yellowish brick was cheapest and they used that.   When St. Albert's Hall was built, gray brick was cheaper and they used that.   All the buildings back in the 70s and 80s were clustered closely together on one side of campus.   I was told by my first supervisor at St. John's that was done that way so that plumbing and electricity would be cheaper to install from existing lines.   So what we have is an odd collection of buildings, although I will say that the recent structures that have gone up, such as D'Angelo Hall, are really nice buildings in comparison.    

It's a tired old story, but money gets you everything.  At one of my kid's schools, every new building was built with the same materials as the original buildings, matching nearly perfectly.   At one of their schools, when they were renovating the priest's residence building, the mortar  between the stone walls was badly deteriorating.    When they began work they discovered the rebar (sp?) holding the stones to the building had dissolved over the years.  Instead of demolishing the building, they removed each stone one by one, and in a very costly way reconstructed the building exterior.   

 

[otis]

Because Masur wouldnt allow the soccer field to be shared I recall.

-----------------
I was not aware that Mr. Mazur was the President of St. John's, or even a member of it'a Board of Trustees with authority to make that decisiion.

Seriously, the flat footed position that the University finds itself in is the result of a series of short sighted decisions made largely during the period 1993 to 2013 span at a time when other colleges re-tooled and moved forward.  

It is easy to be critical of Harrington but the then members of the Board of Trustees bear scrutiny.  The individuals I know that are Trustees at other colleges describe their respective Boards as being less that a "rubber stamp" to the president and from time to time overrule the president.  Adding lacrosse as a varsity sport, constructing and locating the lacrosse field all likely required the approval of the Board of Trustees and it agreed to utilize the limited open space on the campus.

With limited open space on its campus it is difficult to understand the logic of having separate lacrosse and soccer fields.

 

[Alumni Hall]

A couple of three things:
Dasilva field, as we know it now, was there since 1962 when the Queens campus was built. It was used by football (until that was dropped) and lax from the 70's till now along with track. It was also the origional site of the soccer teams until Belson was built.
Placing lax at Belson would have required a large expense to completely enclose all the stands with netting to protect the fans from lacrosse balls, similar to what all MLB teams had to do.
and yes, Dr Masur did wish to keep Belson strictly as a soccer complex to assist recruiting in a national program. He did not wish to have all the myriad lines painted all over the field that having multiple sports would have necessitated. 

 

[beast of the east]

Because Masur wouldnt allow the soccer field to be shared I recall.

-----------------
I was not aware that Mr. Mazur was the President of St. John's, or even a member of it'a Board of Trustees with authority to make that decisiion.

Seriously, the flat footed position that the University finds itself in is the result of a series of short sighted decisions made largely during the period 1993 to 2013 span at a time when other colleges re-tooled and moved forward.  

It is easy to be critical of Harrington but the then members of the Board of Trustees bear scrutiny.  The individuals I know that are Trustees at other colleges describe their respective Boards as being less that a "rubber stamp" to the president and from time to time overrule the president.  Adding lacrosse as a varsity sport, constructing and locating the lacrosse field all likely required the approval of the Board of Trustees and it agreed to utilize the limited open space on the campus.

With limited open space on its campus it is difficult to understand the logic of having separate lacrosse and soccer fields.

I'km sure Masur carried a lot of weight after winning an NCAA championship in 1996.   Keep in mind that Harrington  took a liking to Rob Wile, and made him chief of staff after only a couple of years of hiring him out of college.   Wile was on the soccer team, and he and Harrington became close friends and business partners.    Soccer and lacross may have different seasons, but I'm pretty sure many lacross schools have an abbreviated fall season but not certain about that.   In any event MAsur probably wanted to practice 12 months a year.   

At a Catholic school run by religious orders, the BOT is often there at the Presidents pleasure, to provide guidance and support.   He or the order could remove anyone at any time.   The board may approve a new fiedl for lacrosse, but would not get inolved in an athletic department decision of where the lacross team plays or practices.

Once Harrington's indiscretions surfaced the board exercised power they never had before and moved to fire Harrington.  Of course the # of Vincentians are diminished but I am pretty sure they did agree to the boards decision to remove Harrington. Harrington for his part, really aggravated the Vincentians on campus, living off campus, and having virtually nothing to do with them.

Gempeshaw's tenure is more in the hands of the BOT as a layperson, and the board has appeared to strengthen its authority since then,  It will be interesting to see their role going forward since Father Shanley is clergy, but not a Vincentian.   Whereas Shanley ran into difficulty with the Dominican order at Providence for being too liberal in their eyes, I also believe it was the order that removed him and not the BOT. 
 

 

[mjmaherjr]

cheap foul call there