SJU Structural Problems

[beast of the east]

From a basketball standpoint, my view is that there are no structural problems that cannot be fixed by winning.  The school definitely has some drawbacks in terms of facilities that - in combination with the fact that the program has been irrelevant for a couple of decades - make it an uphill battle to get players.  However, it also has some positives (location, MSG).  But if you build a winning program, they will come.

From an academic standpoint, SJU draws (1) students who don't qualify for admission to more competitive schools; (2) locals who don't have exposure to the wider world of college education; and (3) good students who can't afford to attend more competitive schools.  That applicant pool results in a smaller segment of graduates who are capable or motivated to donate than is the case at, for example, Georgetown or Villanova.  If SJU wanted to fix that it would have to put in a LOT of work and resources to upgrade its standing as a university.  It clearly doesn't have the resources and to date has not had the innovation or vision to do so. 

What you say is mostly correct, though many if not most or all of highly competitive universities state up front that they will provide all necessary assistance for qualified students from impoverished backgrounds to be able to attend the school via scholarships and grants. 

Whereas a new graduate who has not achieved career success yet is less able to contribute, that does not include large numbers of graduates who have achieved a better life and considerable economic success via their SJU degree.   

In terms of basketball, I agree with you.  Many schools that have had less resources and less to offer have done a far better job building winning programs than we have.   Many schools with better facilities have done far worse than we have.

 

[room112]

To Otis' point about St John's alums who had a positive experience at the school and not steering their children there. My son is only 2, but my wife and I certainly won't be steering him to St John's or even UConn for that matter. We will give him all of the tools to make the best decision for him. We had our own experience and he will have his. And quite frankly, since we plan to fund a major part of his college, value will be important. If he can get into one of the top universities great, we will deal with the cost. But last I checked St John's costs $45K + another $17K room and board. My wife works in the CUNY system, so I'm familiar with what they have to offer. For the costs involved I'd probably steer in that direction if anything. 

 

[SLYFOXX1968]

I had mentioned one of my Grandsons attends Manhattan College . He's graduating in May . Manhattan's Tuition and Board are over $60,000 per year . Not much different than St John's . Manhattan has about 3500 undergrads . It's not a big School with a big Endowmrnt , $110 million . For Schools of its size , it ranks pretty well . 13 th in Regional North colleges .. Providence is number 1 in that category . He's gotten a nice , Catholic Education and my Daughter is very happy he went there . As a Grandparent , I don't influence my Children as to where they send their kids . Of course , they all know I went to St John's . They make their own choices .  Manhattan , for most of its existence has always had Dorms, I believe . But , it was largely a Commuter School , like us . Getting most of its students from Catholic High Schools in the Bronx , Westchester , Conn and some from upper Manhattan neighborhoods .  Like , I said previously , although I don't donate to my Grandkids Schools , I know why they went there and how they are doing .  I follow the Sports of their schools , which isn't hard since they are all well known programs . ND, Purdue , Virginia and Penn State . Manhattan being one , without a Nationwide Rep .  A lot of kids when choosing a College want to go to the Best Schools they can get admitted to or , have a particular Program they want . Although , most 18 year olds often have no clue as to what they want to Study . Unless it's Engineering , Accounting , Pharmacy or Pre Med , where you have to select those areas for your freshman year .  It's not that St John's is a bad school , it isn't ! But , it's different than what us Oldtimers experienced . I had to work Part time for all 4 years , I went . My grandkids don't have to combine School and work . Big Differnce .

 

[jerseyshorejohnny]

To Otis' point about St John's alums who had a positive experience at the school and not steering their children there. My son is only 2, but my wife and I certainly won't be steering him to St John's or even UConn for that matter. We will give him all of the tools to make the best decision for him. We had our own experience and he will have his. And quite frankly, since we plan to fund a major part of his college, value will be important. If he can get into one of the top universities great, we will deal with the cost. But last I checked St John's costs $45K + another $17K room and board. My wife works in the CUNY system, so I'm familiar with what they have to offer. For the costs involved I'd probably steer in that direction if anything. 

Fyi...

[URL]https://www.collegefactual.com...ty-new-york/paying-for-college/financial-aid/[/URL]
 

 

[monte]

I'm just happy that this thread has nothing to do with any of the buildings collapsing. 

 

[RedStormNC]

I'm just happy that this thread has nothing to do with any of the buildings collapsing. 
 

lol... agree... 

and glad they are re-doing Marillac Hall interior... but it is quite an eyesore on the outside..  I'm sure not cheap for cosmetics.

 

[room112]

To Otis' point about St John's alums who had a positive experience at the school and not steering their children there. My son is only 2, but my wife and I certainly won't be steering him to St John's or even UConn for that matter. We will give him all of the tools to make the best decision for him. We had our own experience and he will have his. And quite frankly, since we plan to fund a major part of his college, value will be important. If he can get into one of the top universities great, we will deal with the cost. But last I checked St John's costs $45K + another $17K room and board. My wife works in the CUNY system, so I'm familiar with what they have to offer. For the costs involved I'd probably steer in that direction if anything. 

Fyi...

[URL]https://www.collegefactual.com...ty-new-york/paying-for-college/financial-aid/[/URL]

good to know, thank you for sharing. Didn't realize this: About 100.0% of incoming students receive some financial aid, most of which is scholarships and grants.
 

 

[Moose]

I'm just happy that this thread has nothing to do with any of the buildings collapsing. 

I thought it was.  But then after clicking a structure thread I see all the posts are titled Mike Anderson Coaching and Recruiting.

As if my life needed more confusion

 

[otis]

St. John's University continues deliver a solid education to its students. The StJ's Law School, Business School and Pharmacy continue strong.

The image of the St. John's suffered and has not recovered from by the lack of institutional leadership described in my previous post in this thread. It seems that President Bobby has been forced to play "catch up" during his tenure as President.  Prez Bobby was hired under difficult and changing times.

I am optimistic however that given his record of achievement new President Shanley will provide the focus and vision that the St. John's needs. 

Anyone who doubts President Shanley's abilities only has to speak to a Providence College grad to hear about the leadership going forward he brought to PC.
 

 

[beast of the east]

St. John's University continues deliver a solid education to its students. The StJ's Law School, Business School and Pharmacy continue strong.

The image of the St. John's suffered and has not recovered from by the lack of institutional leadership described in my previous post in this thread. It seems that President Bobby has been forced to play "catch up" during his tenure as President.  Prez Bobby was hired under difficult and changing times.

I am optimistic however that given his record of achievement new President Shanley will provide the focus and vision that the St. John's needs. 

Anyone who doubts President Shanley's abilities only has to speak to a Providence College grad to hear about the leadership going forward he brought to PC.

 

There are some specialty majors that also are highly regarded.   I know that there is a major for homeland security for example,from the Collins School, a  lab that was purchased that can simulate various national emergencies.   The federal government would recruit at our jobs fair, but pulled out last year over concerns of student protests over recruiting for I.C.E.

 

[jerseyshorejohnny]

To Otis' point about St John's alums who had a positive experience at the school and not steering their children there. My son is only 2, but my wife and I certainly won't be steering him to St John's or even UConn for that matter. We will give him all of the tools to make the best decision for him. We had our own experience and he will have his. And quite frankly, since we plan to fund a major part of his college, value will be important. If he can get into one of the top universities great, we will deal with the cost. But last I checked St John's costs $45K + another $17K room and board. My wife works in the CUNY system, so I'm familiar with what they have to offer. For the costs involved I'd probably steer in that direction if anything. 

Fyi...

[URL]https://www.collegefactual.com...ty-new-york/paying-for-college/financial-aid/[/URL]

good to know, thank you for sharing. Didn't realize this: About 100.0% of incoming students receive some financial aid, most of which is scholarships and grants.

St, John's provided close to $275 million in direct financial aid to students during the 2019-20 academic year, which is among the largest amounts of institutional aid provided by any private college or university in the country.

 

 

[SJU85]

Re SJU, why is it so difficult for us to be a program like SH, a dump in NJ w ratty facilities like us, limited recruiting $? This is not about aspiring for national championship for God’s sake

paultzman...SHU has ratty facilities? have you EVER been to SHU? Have you seen their team locker rooms (3-4 x the size of ours), video room (we do not have a dedicated film/video room as ours is shared by all 17 teams and is also used for athletic dept staff meetings and athletic snack area for all sports)  coaches offices there are huge with each coach having their own office compared to Taffner where two coaches rooms have 3 staff members in them each, sports medicine has underwater treadmills with video and separate recovery rooms and their basketball athletic trainers EACH have their own private offices, not a desk in the corner of a cramped Room like ours does-3 feet away from athletes getting taped each day and weight room is  huge and much nicer , player lounges are nice (ours is a fridge and two couches) Have you seen the inside of their facility at the Prudential Center? They have the Nets NBA facility ALL TO THEMSELVES, huge NBA locker room, their own training room, weight room, coaches lockers, players lounge. We dress in the Knicks and Rangers locker rooms, and must usually exit the room quickly postgame for the next event. SJU cannot even store towels, water bottles, cups, Gatorade, balls, energy bars at MSG. They must pack and bring everything needed on game day EVERY GAME! In all phases, both on campus and at The Rock, we are not even close to them. If you are a recruit or parent and  care about facilities and the bells and whistles, we are at the bottom of the Conference.

Thank you (and I believe you also did previously on another thread) of going into even more details why I've said that Taffner was outdated, two small, cramped and constructed with inferior materials since it opened. 

 

 

[mjmaherjr]

Re SJU, why is it so difficult for us to be a program like SH, a dump in NJ w ratty facilities like us, limited recruiting $? This is not about aspiring for national championship for God’s sake

paultzman...SHU has ratty facilities? have you EVER been to SHU? Have you seen their team locker rooms (3-4 x the size of ours), video room (we do not have a dedicated film/video room as ours is shared by all 17 teams and is also used for athletic dept staff meetings and athletic snack area for all sports)  coaches offices there are huge with each coach having their own office compared to Taffner where two coaches rooms have 3 staff members in them each, sports medicine has underwater treadmills with video and separate recovery rooms and their basketball athletic trainers EACH have their own private offices, not a desk in the corner of a cramped Room like ours does-3 feet away from athletes getting taped each day and weight room is  huge and much nicer , player lounges are nice (ours is a fridge and two couches) Have you seen the inside of their facility at the Prudential Center? They have the Nets NBA facility ALL TO THEMSELVES, huge NBA locker room, their own training room, weight room, coaches lockers, players lounge. We dress in the Knicks and Rangers locker rooms, and must usually exit the room quickly postgame for the next event. SJU cannot even store towels, water bottles, cups, Gatorade, balls, energy bars at MSG. They must pack and bring everything needed on game day EVERY GAME! In all phases, both on campus and at The Rock, we are not even close to them. If you are a recruit or parent and  care about facilities and the bells and whistles, we are at the bottom of the Conference.


 

Super informative AJ. Great job

 

[beast of the east]

AJ Hidell is a great screen name, but a little creepy also.

 

[bamafan]

AJ Hidell is a great screen name, but a little creepy also.




Probably his real name. /media/kunena/emoticons/wink.png/media/kunena/emoticons/smile.png
 

 

[Las Vegan]

Re SJU, why is it so difficult for us to be a program like SH, a dump in NJ w ratty facilities like us, limited recruiting $? This is not about aspiring for national championship for God’s sake

paultzman...SHU has ratty facilities? have you EVER been to SHU? Have you seen their team locker rooms (3-4 x the size of ours), video room (we do not have a dedicated film/video room as ours is shared by all 17 teams and is also used for athletic dept staff meetings and athletic snack area for all sports)  coaches offices there are huge with each coach having their own office compared to Taffner where two coaches rooms have 3 staff members in them each, sports medicine has underwater treadmills with video and separate recovery rooms and their basketball athletic trainers EACH have their own private offices, not a desk in the corner of a cramped Room like ours does-3 feet away from athletes getting taped each day and weight room is  huge and much nicer , player lounges are nice (ours is a fridge and two couches) Have you seen the inside of their facility at the Prudential Center? They have the Nets NBA facility ALL TO THEMSELVES, huge NBA locker room, their own training room, weight room, coaches lockers, players lounge. We dress in the Knicks and Rangers locker rooms, and must usually exit the room quickly postgame for the next event. SJU cannot even store towels, water bottles, cups, Gatorade, balls, energy bars at MSG. They must pack and bring everything needed on game day EVERY GAME! In all phases, both on campus and at The Rock, we are not even close to them. If you are a recruit or parent and  care about facilities and the bells and whistles, we are at the bottom of the Conference.

Thank you (and I believe you also did previously on another thread) of going into even more details why I've said that Taffner was outdated, two small, cramped and constructed with inferior materials since it opened. 

I'll start by saying that I've never been in Taffner Fieldhouse. How old is it? How much did it cost, and did the Taffner donation cover most of the cost?
I understand the problems with Carnesecca Arena, which is 60 years old, but why is a relatively new facility so problematic?




 

 

[Alumni Hall]

Re SJU, why is it so difficult for us to be a program like SH, a dump in NJ w ratty facilities like us, limited recruiting $? This is not about aspiring for national championship for God’s sake

paultzman...SHU has ratty facilities? have you EVER been to SHU? Have you seen their team locker rooms (3-4 x the size of ours), video room (we do not have a dedicated film/video room as ours is shared by all 17 teams and is also used for athletic dept staff meetings and athletic snack area for all sports)  coaches offices there are huge with each coach having their own office compared to Taffner where two coaches rooms have 3 staff members in them each, sports medicine has underwater treadmills with video and separate recovery rooms and their basketball athletic trainers EACH have their own private offices, not a desk in the corner of a cramped Room like ours does-3 feet away from athletes getting taped each day and weight room is  huge and much nicer , player lounges are nice (ours is a fridge and two couches) Have you seen the inside of their facility at the Prudential Center? They have the Nets NBA facility ALL TO THEMSELVES, huge NBA locker room, their own training room, weight room, coaches lockers, players lounge. We dress in the Knicks and Rangers locker rooms, and must usually exit the room quickly postgame for the next event. SJU cannot even store towels, water bottles, cups, Gatorade, balls, energy bars at MSG. They must pack and bring everything needed on game day EVERY GAME! In all phases, both on campus and at The Rock, we are not even close to them. If you are a recruit or parent and  care about facilities and the bells and whistles, we are at the bottom of the Conference.

Thank you (and I believe you also did previously on another thread) of going into even more details why I've said that Taffner was outdated, two small, cramped and constructed with inferior materials since it opened. 

I'll start by saying that I've never been in Taffner Fieldhouse. How old is it? How much did it cost, and did the Taffner donation cover most of the cost?
I understand the problems with Carnesecca Arena, which is 56 years old, but why is a relatively new 

Too long a story for here...17 years old, 3 mil of the 16 mil cost was donated by Taffners. Originally planned to be a nice 23 mil facility just for hoops programs, but things happened.
 

 

[otis]

Too long a story for here...17 years old, 3 mil of the 16 mil cost was donated by Taffners. Originally planned to be a nice 23 mil facility just for hoops programs, but things happened.
 

________

My recollection is that a donor made a commitment for a larger contribution to construct the then proposed larger StJohn's practice facility.  There was a head coaching vacancy at the time.  The donor wanted former Notre Dame and UNC mens basketball coach Matt Doherty to be hired as the new St. John's men's head basketball coach.   The donor backed out when Doherty was not hired.  With loss of the large donor's money StJohn's downsized the planned facility and Taffner was constructed.

Hey AJ Hindell ... is my recollection correct ?

 

[beast of the east]

Partial truth.  The donor had already given millions to sju, felt totally embarrassed by Harrington. who had entrusted the decision to a committee led by the donor.   DOH was even told he had the job.   The donor instead told the he didnt want his name on the building, but still donated the money as promised to sju (5 mm I believe)
Even with hard feelings, donations continued to Tobin, and he arranged dozens of sju students for internships at his former wall street firm.
The same person also was the driving force to renovating sacred heart academy in hempstead, including the acquisition and demolition of several private homes to build athletic fields there.
He has been a major donor at another school as well, but not to the extent he is at sju.
For good measure, he has funded a charter hs in Brooklyn for nderprivileged girls.  His daughter is principal.

He remains a strong supporter of sju to this day.

Looking back, it was another screw up by Harrington.

 

[otis]

Looking back, it was another screw up by Harrington.

The above statement is seemingly true about a lot of decisions made at St. John's during the period 1989 to 2013.