SJU Structural Problems

[monte]

Re SJU, why is it so difficult for us to be a program like SH, a dump in NJ w ratty facilities like us, limited recruiting $? This is not about aspiring for national championship for God’s sake


 

One answer might be "find the right coach and have patience."  Willard's first 5 seasons at the Hall:

13-17, 7-11
21-13, 8-10 (NIT)
15-18, 3-15
17-17, 6-12
16-15, 6-12

I can't even imagine what this board would be like if SJU went 15-18, 3-15 next year.

Fair enough, but Willard came to SH off one decent season at a mid major, and I would expect that his salary then was nowhere near commensurate to what CMA is being paid now. SH was willing to take a shot with a largely unproven coach. It was a risk they were willing to take and it paid off in the long run. We, OTOH, hired an experienced coach with a winning track record at the D1 level, and at a competative(private school) salary. I don't think it's  fair to compare the expectations of the 2 coaches. Having said that, I'm hoping this season for CMA is the equivilant of Willard's 3rd season, and we start to see an upward trajectory starting next season. 

 

 

[ADORAZ]

2 things regarding Willard--

1. For every 1 Willard there are a bunch of coaches who never turned it around. He's an outlier. CMA is much older and also isn't transitioning from a mid-major.
2. Willard turned things around with a top 10 recruiting class and followed that up with strong and consistent recruiting. He signed that class before the start of year 4
​​​​​​ (arrived on campus by year 5). He wasn't getting fired after year 3 when he was signing an excellent class. Is there any reason to think CMA will be signing a top 10 (or even top 25) class by next summer? 
​​​
​

 

[lawmanfan]

2. Willard turned things around with a top 10 recruiting class and followed that up with strong and consistent recruiting. He signed that class before the start of year 4
​​​​​​​

 

So what you're saying is that after 4 years Willard signed a good recruiting class .. that then went 6-12 in the league in Year 5.

As compared to SJU which is currently in the "after 1 year" stage. 

It's good to hear that you approve of Seton Hall waiting 4 years before signing the class that built it into a relevant program over the NEXT 4 years.  Though I have to admit that dedication to patience is pretty thoroughly absent from your posts about St. John's.

 

[monte]

At some point, the increasing salary as the answer, becomes diminishing returns (other than select few legend coaches that wouldn't leave or ever come here). 

Holtmann and Mack left Big East for state school jobs and got big time money, or even now Pikell.  These guys are pushing $3-4M.   I don't think these guys have reputations that would fast track anything more than Anderson.

Think we really need to get the infrastructure, training facilities and amenities right, and decide if we will play fair or not to whatever degree, to draw the talent we want and make big push with marketing the program.

I get the school may be struggling financially now,, but at same time it's chicken or the egg.  To me, this program is more than basketball for the school, it's a big part of the reputation.  Invest here will pay off a lot more than half of the less than stellar academic programs.  I really hope Fr. Shanley is able and willing to make some tough decisions, get real creative on partnerships (athletic and academic) and place some big bets with the end in mind.

I shared this relevant quote with another member recently. Think it applies well to  our program success.[attachment=1830]327fd513862a338bdf21f42b69d168a0.jpg[/attachment]

I was invited to a meeting in NYC in December 2016 or 2017 with one of our assistant coach's to talk about facilities or the lack thereof.  The theme of the meeting was that we were at a compeptive disadvatage versus the rest of the Big East. Not a lot has changed since.

I think it's imperative for us to give our coaches the infrastructure they need in order to compete and recruit  on a level playing field.

If you hire someone, you should put them in a position to win

Unfortunately, this is easier said than done, particularly in the current enviornment

As "they" say: Without Money All Else Fails













 

I think all points are valid, but unfortunately it is a chicken and egg argument.    If you win, you have an opportunity to raise more money, and if you raise money you can invest in winning.

I've spent many days in the Pavillion at Villanova, and can pretty much assure you it was a dump.  However, it didn't prevent Jay Wright from building a perennial winner where he can literally compete for the very best talent.    Even when the school raised money, (a highly successfully $300 million campaign the year Father Peter arrived, circa 2006), they invested in other places on campus.   They then initiated an even more ambitious $600 million campaign in 2014.  It was super organized, and believe it or not, they kicked it off at a hotel across the street from the Garden.   I was in attendance, and they drew a large crowd, and all prominent Villanova leaders, including Jay Wright, were there.   This was before the 2 national championships of course, but still they easily met the campaign goals.   Of course they had bball success before then.   They raised enough money to plan to build a new on campus arena, and only changed plans when Radnor township pushed back on a larger arena over parking and more importantly the traffic it would bring to Lancaster Avenue.   Instead, they just about gutted the Pavillion and built a gorgeous arena inside.  JSJ and I took in a game there last February.

One of the investments that Villanova made to grow the school was a top notch, well compensated staff of fund raisers.   Before the oldest of two kids we sent to Villanova was 1/3 way thru freshman year, they reached out to me in a personal way.   They knew where I worked, my job title, and presumable from FAFSA applications knew my family income.   Th development office built relationships - I was invited to lunch right away near where I worked, and that became an annual thing.   When I needed help from them, they were responsive in all ways.   My donations really didn't warrant that kind of attention, but I was treated as a friend always and not as a checkbook.   I would consider Father Peter, his predecessor Father Dobbin, and several other administrators friends even today.   A few weeks ago I sent them a warm personal email and immediately heard back from both Father Peter and another administrator.   When my son ultimately turned down Villanova to attend BC, I notified Father Peter directly of his choice.   His response to me still resonates - "Don't worry.   You and your family will always be Villanovans for life."    Great school and great people.   Their success is not haphazard or random.   They are sincerely great people, great educators, and great admnistrators.    (Paul hates me gushing about Nova, but this is all true and relevant to our situation).

My experience was quite different at BC.   They never once reached out, and early on when we were shut out of limited seating events, did not even respond to my request for them to see what they could do.   Their parent's weekend was a joke by comparison, and the school was never as warm and welcoming as Villanova.    Still, to their credit, alumni donate tons of money and their endowment dwarfs Villanova's.

I'm so excited that Father Shanley has the potential to bring a cultural change to St. John's.   The past 3 presidents - Cahill, Harrington, and Gempeshaw were cool at best to forming relationships beyond the biggest donors, lacking the charisma and interest in connecting with students, admnistrators, and alumni.   

I sincerely hope Father Shanley will show the SJU community how it's done, and be able to grow the investment of our donor base in the success and growth of the university, far beyond basketball.

Beast, as I know you are aware, a major difference between St. John's and Villanova /BC is that these institutions have a base of parents that have financial capacity

A great friend of mine, who has achieved outsized financial success, has a daugher who was admiited to Georgetown. Before she even stepped foot on campus, as a student, he was solicited by a Georgetown development officer.

As  a university with a Pell eligible population of 40% we simply do not have a meaningful number of those type of parents 









 

JSJ, you've pointed this out to me many times.   I think our students of today do not compare favorably overall with the better Catholic schools in the region GT, Nova, BC, HC, Fordham, and a few others.   However, there are a very large number of very successful SJU graduates from the 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s who have carved out very nice careers.    Obviously we have many students today from disadvantaged backgrounds whose parents of course are not in a position to be donors.  On the other hand, our undergraduate population is twice that of Villanova, and we have a good number of successful graduates who simply do not support the school with donations.

Part of it is making alumni feel part of the community.   I'm told when we have alumni events, if they are free they are very well attended, but if we even charge $25, not well attended at all.   I believe that some of our alumni attend free events thinking that they are doing their part as alumni by simply attending.    We may not be capable of raising the kind of money Villanova does, but we can be a lot more successful than we have been by working at changing the culture of giving at SJU.

The largest benefactor to my daughter's small catholic elementary school was/is a very prominant Jewish Real Estate family. They have no connection to the school other then a long time relationship with the school and, I beleive,  a personal relationship with one or more of the board members. Point being; the school does not only rely on parents and alumni for donations. My sense is that if there was a something specifically earmarked for athletics (basketball in particular) you could probably more easily solicite donations from money people down at Wall Street and elsewhere. There are a lot of college basketball fans around this city who would love to jump on the bandwagon of thier hometown team, regardless of where they went to school or grew up. I had a conversation a few years ago about our basketball program with a client of mine who is a UCLA alum and huge UCLA basketball fan. About 30 years old, lives right of 5th ave and works in finance. He said to me "I love college basketball and would love for St. John's to become good again. Then I would have a local team to root for and a reason to go to games at the garden". He's not alone. I know a lot of non-alum who are huge college basketball fans and who are dying for us to become relevant again. I believe there is a donor base out there waiting to be taped in to. It's a matter of having the right person with the right connections reaching out to them. Not saying now, but whenever the time is right. 
 

 

[ADORAZ]

Lawmanfan- incorrect, you might want to reread my post. Willard put together that class after year 3- not year 4. If CMA signs a big class by next October (2022), then that'd be the same thing. Keep in mind that 90%+ recruits sign for the following year by November (1 year before they arrive on campus). Willard was almost fired after year 5 (first year of his big class) because the freshmen didn't bring them to the NIT/NCAA, but was given another year to improve. He took advantage of it. CMA has had 3 classes, unless there is a top recruit he's focused on for 2021 that isn't signed yet.

No need for personal attacks. I consider myself to be a patient person and I actually do think he needs at a minimum 3 years (probably 4). I never once said he should be let go now or even after this year. If he signs a big recruiting class before or during year 4 then awesome. All I am saying is I find it concerning that there doesn't seem to be any traction, and it really is necessary to turn things around.

 

[redfan25976l]

I object to some of the characterizations of st johns and or its facilities (ratty etc..). Sju has an impressive list of graduates and the school has been very charitable to those economically less fortunate students which is admirable. Problem is you have a lot of successful alumni who patronize other schools (places their kids are attending) and forget about where they came from...then to clear their conscience they go along with all the negativity out there so as to justify depriving the school of much needed donations...I don't consider people on the board that denigrate the University to be true fans of St. Johns....we all hope for a powerhouse bball team but first and foremost...We are St. Johns! 

 

[room112]

I object to some of the characterizations of st johns and or its facilities (ratty etc..). Sju has an impressive list of graduates and the school has been very charitable to those economically less fortunate students which is admirable. Problem is you have a lot of successful alumni who patronize other schools (places their kids are attending) and forget about where they came from...then to clear their conscience they go along with all the negativity out there so as to justify depriving the school of much needed donations...I don't consider people on the board that denigrate the University to be true fans of St. Johns....we all hope for a powerhouse bball team but first and foremost...We are St. Johns! 

Two Words.....Repole Arena. The new state of the art on campus arena fully funded by St. John's generous/famous alumni.

Ok maybe that's a bit too much to ask. How about the Repole Basketball Center. A dedicated, state of the art basketball facility on campus just for the basketball program. 

 

[Alumni Hall]

Johnny Redmen, Paultman called SHU's facilities ratty, not St John's. And no, the Repole train left the station awhile ago and is not returning, especially to athletics. Mike has definitely moved on from SJU and has found other interests for his time and funding.

 

[monte]

Johnny Redmen, Paultman called SHU's facilities ratty, not St John's. And no, the Repole train left the station awhile ago and is not returning, especially to athletics. Mike has definitely moved on from SJU and has found other interests for his time and funding.

You sure that a new administration can't reestablish old relationships. Especially relationships that can be extremely beneficial to the school during some very difficult times 


 

 

[Alumni Hall]

Not until a certain 3rd floor administrator leaves the University. And he is not leaving anytime soon.

 

[Sherman Sheridan & Grant]

Not until a certain 3rd floor administrator leaves the University. And he is not leaving anytime soon.

nice to see some perspective discussed here in regard to how long it took Seton Hall to turn the corner AND same for other programs to include Duke where Mike K struggled and some wanted him fired. As I
posted before - 21
months with Mike Anderson at the helm - he deserves another 21 months to re-establish recruiting pipelines and add to our W total - those who lack patience are imo missing  the boat in any life pursuit success.
Blessings 

 

 

[beast of the east]

I object to some of the characterizations of st johns and or its facilities (ratty etc..). Sju has an impressive list of graduates and the school has been very charitable to those economically less fortunate students which is admirable. Problem is you have a lot of successful alumni who patronize other schools (places their kids are attending) and forget about where they came from...then to clear their conscience they go along with all the negativity out there so as to justify depriving the school of much needed donations...I don't consider people on the board that denigrate the University to be true fans of St. Johns....we all hope for a powerhouse bball team but first and foremost...We
are St. Johns! 

Resoectfully I disagree with some of your premises and conclusions.  Let's first make the distinction between Carnesecca Arena and the rest of athletic facilities.   A new arena is not happening any time soon but AJ hidell accurately described the state of sju athletic facilities,  which do need a major upgrade.   This will require a significant investment but a fraction of what a new arena would cost.  With a new arena at Belmont, Nassau Coliseum, Barclays and msg all in our area the need for a new on campus arena is not as pronounced as it would be if those did not exist.    

Yes. Sju has a laudable mission to the poor and working class and most alumni here benefitted from a lower cost private Catholic education at st John's that was not available anywhere else in our area.


By discussing what sju needs to be competitive athletically with other major conference schools is not denigrating the university.

Athletics is just one area of the university and even Dr. Gempeshaw recognized the importance of a successful basketball program.   Jumping from Roberts to Lavin more than quadrupled salaries alone, but more is needed than just a well paid coaching staff.  I suspect Father Stanley will acknowledge what our athletic department needs and not view it as griping.

Finally, sending kids to Catholic universities away from home is providing our kids with an opportunity that an sju education for me and others enabled.

Supporting another university as well as st. John's is not abetting the enemy.    I live the Big East because it is not only a highly successful league but also with a strong Catholic identity.    If basketball helps all member schools attract students and strengthens each financially, that's terrific.    Those alums that I know help support other schools also are appropriately far more generous supporting st John's, which is to me a small debt if gratitude to our school and a way to get pay it forward.


 

 

[SLYFOXX1968]

Thanks for the Post , Beast .  I graduated over 50 years ago and still bleed Red and White . I have grandchildren who attend ND , Purdue , Penn State , Manhattan College and Virginia . 3 out of State Schools , 2 Private Catholic Schools . I wouldn't consider sending a donation to these Schools beyond buying a Hat or Tee Shirt , if I attended a game or visited the Colleges .  The point being is I give to St John's , not millions but , what I can . I'm Retired but , while in the Corporate World always participated in the Matching Gifts program my Employer offered , which is a great way to double the Donation .  Back in the Day , I also had Season Tickets during 82-83, 83-84, 84-85, 85-86. Of course , they didn't cost what they do now but , everything was less expensive then .  Big East Tourney Tickets were extra and i always went . Friends from other BE Schools and I would get HotelRooms  in Midtown for the games and went to everyone from 12 noon to 12 midnite . It was great fun .  So , I agree with you that commenting about Basketball , yea or nay , isn't disrespecting the School . It's called being a Fan , albeit a loyal one.  It would be great if the School could increase its fund raising efforts and you and JSJ have long espoused the wish of more people donating .. A Noble effort by you both . Thanks .

 

[MCNPA]

Mike Anderson is. Good coach and isn't going anywhere and shouldn't.  Definitely needs to step up recruiting.  Hopefully Shanley can get rid of idiots like Oliva and the old guard to move into the future.  I'm hoping he and Cragg can collaborate and change the vision at sju.  

 

[otis]

Each and every poster on this site I have had the privilege of meeting has the same background:

* they were raised in blue collared working-class families.....

* they are first generation in college,.... 

* they are appreciative of the education and opportunities St. John's provided to them ...... and

* through their hard work have been successful in business and now live upper middle class (or better) lives.

From the many proud alums I have met through Redmen.com I am aware of only one poster whose son/ daughter attended St. John's and that student transferred out in their Sophomore year.

The question therefor is why the same St. John's alums who feel passionate about their experience at St. John's do not steer their children to attend St. John's. In my opinion St. John's has itself to blame,

Many of the reasons that St. Jphn's lost momentum and substantial ground to other "Catholic Colleges" over the past 30 years were self-inflicted and occurred under the "leadership" of President Donald J. Harrington (a/k/a/ "Suites Harrington") at a timeSt. John's University seemingly lacked the institutional leadership and focus which other "Catholic Colleges" enjoyed in terms of image and advancement. 

The lack of leadership, institutional control and focus of the St. John's administrators was well publicized in the national press. The below described events conduct would not have occur at any other institution I am aware of.

Here are just some of the publicized headlined stories: 

Dean Helped St. John's President Live Large
[URL][URL]https://www.nydailynews.c...t-john-president-live-large-article-1.1187112[/URL][/url]

Ex Dean provided St. John's President with more than 40 custom-made suits from Hong Kong, along with pricey Patek Philippe watches and lavish stays at The Four Seasons hotel in Hawaii,according to court testimony.
[URL][URL]https://nypost.com/2012/11/07/end-of-her-rope-st-johns-dean-of-mean-hangs-herself/[/URL][/url]

St. John's Dean Accused of Using Students as Servants
[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/01/nyregion/01stjohn.html?partner[/URL]=rss&emc=rss][URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/01/nyregion/01stjohn.html?partner[/URL]=rss&emc=rss[/url]

St. John's Dean Denies She Stole $1.2M; 
Claims She Paid Harrington $400,000 Cash
[URL][URL]https://www.asiaone.com/News/Latest+News/Edvantage/Story/A1Story20121106-381728.html[/URL][/url]

St. John’s University Dean, Accused of Offering Students as Dates and Au Pairs
[URL][URL]https://www.huffpost.com/entry/cecilia-chang-accused-of-_n_758517[/URL][/url]

St. John's Accused of Selling Honorary Degrees
[URL][URL]https://nypost.com/2012/10/23/sheep-kin-sale/[/URL][/url]

Lavish Spending By St. John Senior Official for Personal Items at time Students borrow money to Attend College
Harrington's Chief of Staff charged $25,000 on brands like Prada, Ferragamo, and Lanvin to credit cards, which were billed to a SJ's University account. Sources told Harrington that his Chief of Staff should reimburse St. John’s at least some of the money. Harrington reportedly said he’d consider the recommendation, “but it went nowhere,” to the shock of oneinvestigator. Rather than be required to reimburse the University for the charges Harrington's Chief of Staff "got raises,” as one source put it, after the investigation began in 2010. That year the Chief of State received an additional payment of $150,000 in a category marked “other reportable compensation,” according to anIRS form. Sources say the $150,000 included a $100,000 retention bonus and $50,000 in debt forgiveness. In addition, the Chief of Staff received $370,000 in interest-free loans from St. John’s and that year received more in compensation than any other then current employee except the basketball coach, according to documents. The Chief of Staff reportedly also approved some of decreased Dean's expenses. Oh, the Chief of Staff was also reportedto have been in business with Harrington on a real-estate venture.
[URL][URL]https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2013/03/top-st-johns-official-blocked-payback-request.html[/URL][/url]





 
 

 

[prjohnnies]

One answer might be "find the right coach and have patience."  Willard's first 5 seasons at the Hall:

13-17, 7-11
21-13, 8-10 (NIT)
15-18, 3-15
17-17, 6-12
16-15, 6-12

I can't even imagine what this board would be like if SJU went 15-18, 3-15 next year.

Maybe I'm imagining this, but I seem to remember Seton Hall wanting to dump him, but they were too broke/cheap to do it. If that was the case, sometimes being broke and cheap work out in the end.

Willard had a relationship with the AD, number 1, which helped.  He was also a year away from being fired, and almost left to go coach Holy Cross.  He knew after a few years he was in trouble, which is why he sold his soul for Tiny and Antigua, cross-his-fingers nothing bad would happen or surface to get the program in hot water, and it worked out for him.  He leveraged that Whitehead/Desi/Delgado class for 3 tourney berths and respectability.  Also, they've done a good job at identifying kids like Powell (back end of top 100), McKnight (transfer), Gill (project devloped into BE defensive player of the year) or nabbing kids like Mamu (who Dave on the other site says we could have had but our friend in Lincoln didn't want him) or the Rhoden-types who we should have been recruiting in our backyard (positive is I think this particular staff already landed kids like that or have them coming in the door, it will just take some time).
 

 

[prjohnnies]

Re SJU, why is it so difficult for us to be a program like SH, a dump in NJ w ratty facilities like us, limited recruiting $? This is not about aspiring for national championship for God’s sake

Also, on this point, you talk to Seton Hall fans and they would kill to have our practice facility and on-campus arena option.  Apparently theirs is truly bottom barrell.
 

 

[beast of the east]

Thanks for the Post , Beast .  I graduated over 50 years ago and still bleed Red and White . I have grandchildren who attend ND , Purdue , Penn State , Manhattan College and Virginia . 3 out of State Schools , 2 Private Catholic Schools . I wouldn't consider sending a donation to these Schools beyond buying a Hat or Tee Shirt , if I attended a game or visited the Colleges .  The point being is I give to St John's , not millions but , what I can . I'm Retired but , while in the Corporate World always participated in the Matching Gifts program my Employer offered , which is a great way to double the Donation .  Back in the Day , I also had Season Tickets during 82-83, 83-84, 84-85, 85-86. Of course , they didn't cost what they do now but , everything was less expensive then .  Big East Tourney Tickets were extra and i always went . Friends from other BE Schools and I would get HotelRooms  in Midtown for the games and went to everyone from 12 noon to 12 midnite . It was great fun .  So , I agree with you that commenting about Basketball , yea or nay , isn't disrespecting the School . It's called being a Fan , albeit a loyal one.  It would be great if the School could increase its fund raising efforts and you and JSJ have long espoused the wish of more people donating .. A Noble effort by you both . Thanks .

SF, for anyone donating what we can is all anyone can expect.   I've donated to other schools as well as St. John's, because they were great schoola for my kids, and have a way of making parents feel part of the school.   That being said, my loyalty and bulk of my donations are firmly with St. John's, and I am not even close to being a big donor either.    My urging for us as basketball fans and alumni is for anyone to give what we can.   Of course, as fans, the payback would be to provide better athletic facilities for players and admnistration, and to potentially attract better athletes that would result in more on the field/court success.   For me at least, though I love basketball in particular, is that overall the school would benefit from having more resources to attract better students, staff, and faculty. 

 

[beast of the east]

Each and every poster on this site I have had the privilege of meeting has the same background:

* they were raised in blue collared working-class families.....

* they are first generation in college,.... 

* they are appreciative of the education and opportunities St. John's provided to them ...... and

* through their hard work have been successful in business and now live upper middle class (or better) lives.

From the many proud alums I have met through Redmen.com I am aware of only one poster whose son/ daughter attended St. John's and that student transferred out in their Sophomore year.

The question therefor is why the same St. John's alums who feel passionate about their experience at St. John's do not steer their children to attend St. John's. In my opinion St. John's has itself to blame,

Many of the reasons that St. Jphn's lost momentum and substantial ground to other "Catholic Colleges" over the past 30 years were self-inflicted and occurred under the "leadership" of President Donald J. Harrington (a/k/a/ "Suites Harrington") at a timeSt. John's University seemingly lacked the institutional leadership and focus which other "Catholic Colleges" enjoyed in terms of image and advancement. 

The lack of leadership, institutional control and focus of the St. John's administrators was well publicized in the national press. The below described events conduct would not have occur at any other institution I am aware of.

Here are just some of the publicized headlined stories: 

Dean Helped St. John's President Live Large
[URL][URL]https://www.nydailynews.c...t-john-president-live-large-article-1.1187112[/URL][/url]

Ex Dean provided St. John's President with more than 40 custom-made suits from Hong Kong, along with pricey Patek Philippe watches and lavish stays at The Four Seasons hotel in Hawaii,according to court testimony.
[URL][URL]https://nypost.com/2012/11/07/end-of-her-rope-st-johns-dean-of-mean-hangs-herself/[/URL][/url]

St. John's Dean Accused of Using Students as Servants
[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/01/nyregion/01stjohn.html?partner[/URL]=rss&emc=rss][URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/01/nyregion/01stjohn.html?partner[/URL]=rss&emc=rss[/url]

St. John's Dean Denies She Stole $1.2M; 
Claims She Paid Harrington $400,000 Cash
[URL][URL]https://www.asiaone.com/News/Latest+News/Edvantage/Story/A1Story20121106-381728.html[/URL][/url]

St. John’s University Dean, Accused of Offering Students as Dates and Au Pairs
[URL][URL]https://www.huffpost.com/entry/cecilia-chang-accused-of-_n_758517[/URL][/url]

St. John's Accused of Selling Honorary Degrees
[URL][URL]https://nypost.com/2012/10/23/sheep-kin-sale/[/URL][/url]

Lavish Spending By St. John Senior Official for Personal Items at time Students borrow money to Attend College
Harrington's Chief of Staff charged $25,000 on brands like Prada, Ferragamo, and Lanvin to credit cards, which were billed to a SJ's University account. Sources told Harrington that his Chief of Staff should reimburse St. John’s at least some of the money. Harrington reportedly said he’d consider the recommendation, “but it went nowhere,” to the shock of oneinvestigator. Rather than be required to reimburse the University for the charges Harrington's Chief of Staff "got raises,” as one source put it, after the investigation began in 2010. That year the Chief of State received an additional payment of $150,000 in a category marked “other reportable compensation,” according to anIRS form. Sources say the $150,000 included a $100,000 retention bonus and $50,000 in debt forgiveness. In addition, the Chief of Staff received $370,000 in interest-free loans from St. John’s and that year received more in compensation than any other then current employee except the basketball coach, according to documents. The Chief of Staff reportedly also approved some of decreased Dean's expenses. Oh, the Chief of Staff was also reportedto have been in business with Harrington on a real-estate venture.
[URL][URL]https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2013/03/top-st-johns-official-blocked-payback-request.html[/URL][/url]







 


 

Good post Otis, although I'm not sure it's necessary to regurgiate that horrible and egregious chapter in SJU history.   I would agree with some of your points, but basically St. John's was a commuter school (as VIllanova largely was 40 years ago).   With so many students being the first in our families (or at least the first generation within our families) to graduate college, the availability of a low cost private Catholic college education was a tremendous catalyst to launch hundreds of thousands of successful careers.

The culture has changed a lot in our kids generation about going away to college.   My son was accepted to NYU, and in retrospect had courses more attuned to his ultimate interests, but he felt it was too close to home and went elsewhere.  One daughter preferred to stay local, but my wife believed firmly that in order to grow in ways beyond academics, she should go away to school and learn to be more independent.   I believe that's true for most kids.

If there is a failure on the part of the school, it was a failure to adapt to the changing ethnic and racial makeup of Queens, which was decidedly less Catholic.       There reaction to this was to either consciously or subconsciously mute the school's Catholic identity.   Some clergy at St. John's were bothered by this, and some even speculated that Cahill and Harrington did not want to offend Jerome Belson, one of our largest donors, who happened to be Jewish.   That is an assertion not worth evaluating, because Belson loved our school and mission and supported it heavily.   Many SJU graduates who grew up in working class Queens and Brooklyn moved to Long Island, Westchester, NJ, and Connecticut if they stayed local at all.   My neighborhood in Queens has only a handful of the people I grew up with, and just strolling down the main avenues are strong evidence of the changing cultural identity simply by the ethnic restuarants, clothing stores, mosques, etc.   There is NOTHING wrong with this and nothing radical, and a lot right about it - Queens and Brooklyn (and NYC) have always been places to start out, and for those of us in the suburbs, as those ethnic and racial groups find success in careers, suburban negihborhoods are changing too.

However, when we were slow to to build dorms, Hoftsra, Adelphi, and Molloy student populations surged.  I believe many of the local kids who have gone to those schools were the suburban kids from Long Island that SJU used to attract in droves.  A slightly older friend of mine in my town once remarked to my comment that in the past many kids from our town went to SJU.   Her response was "You are dead wrong.  ALL OF THEM DID"   A slight exaggeration, but you get the point.

Although I believe (as does Dr. Gemepshaw and I hope Fr. Shanley) that our Catholic identity is important and we should endeavor to attract qualified Catholic students to our school, our identity should still be the same - to provide a Catholic, Christian based education to all students, and to especially provide educational opportunities to those who otherwise could not afford a school like St. John's.

 

[lawmanfan]

From a basketball standpoint, my view is that there are no structural problems that cannot be fixed by winning.  The school definitely has some drawbacks in terms of facilities that - in combination with the fact that the program has been irrelevant for a couple of decades - make it an uphill battle to get players.  However, it also has some positives (location, MSG).  But if you build a winning program, they will come.

From an academic standpoint, SJU draws (1) students who don't qualify for admission to more competitive schools; (2) locals who don't have exposure to the wider world of college education; and (3) good students who can't afford to attend more competitive schools.  That applicant pool results in a smaller segment of graduates who are capable or motivated to donate than is the case at, for example, Georgetown or Villanova.  If SJU wanted to fix that it would have to put in a LOT of work and resources to upgrade its standing as a university.  It clearly doesn't have the resources and to date has not had the innovation or vision to do so.