SJU Fan Tradition Continues-Blame The Coach
- Thread starter Ray Morgan
- Start date
1. Lapchick
2. Louie
3. Fran
4. Jarvis
5. Mahoney
6. Norm
7. Kevin Clark
If you're going to make me put Lavin in there right now, I would slot him either between Fran and Jarvis or between Jarvis and Mahoney. On record he would be behind Jarvis, but I would be surprised if he's not ahead of him in the end. If/when he passes Jarvis he will also pass Fran.
2. Louie
3. Fran
4. Jarvis
5. Mahoney
6. Norm
7. Kevin Clark
If you're going to make me put Lavin in there right now, I would slot him either between Fran and Jarvis or between Jarvis and Mahoney. On record he would be behind Jarvis, but I would be surprised if he's not ahead of him in the end. If/when he passes Jarvis he will also pass Fran.
Mulzoff inherited a talented roster, when Louie left for the Nets. Mulzoff was a former player and a decent guy, but beyond Frank Alagia, Beaver Smith and Mel Utley, the recruiting was falling off. His teams went to one ncaa and two nits, in his three years, but he wasn't particularly popular with the players, and a change was needed. Louie returned and one of his first recruits was George Johnson. I don't know if we'll ever get the whole story re Fran, but I would rate him below only Louie and Lapchick, with Lavin not included.
beast of the east
Active member
I don't think you see the point. I did feel he was inept, and I don't think he met the standard for morally reprehensible. I just think he, like most coaches, sold himself a little too high, and was over his head. But, when his job was teetering, I was still rooting for St. John's to win, and for him to succeed. If we went deep into the NIT that year, he would have proved something, and perhaps salvaged his job. It's funny, I had a discussion with a local D1 coach about that time, and he asked me, "Do you think Roberts is actually improving as a coach?" I told him I thought he had, that his substitutions seemed to make more sense, and we were playing more with purpose. He said, 'It's funny. I've watched a lot of games and was thinking the same thing."
Bottom line, thinking someone is not capable of doing the job, and rooting for them to fail are two different things. I've had to fire people over the years, and with good cause, but I wish they had done a better job so I wouldn't have had to do that.
He inherited an Elite 8 team and thereafter in presiding over what SI termed the 24th most corrupt program in the history of basketball left Saint John's on NCAA probation (and facing Harrington's death penalty) and his successor a 6 win team. It was the most spectacular flame out sports had witnessed since Thurman Munson flew to Ohio for the weekend. He was a worse coach than Kevin Clark and a worse human being than Sawney Bean.
beast of the east
Active member
How do you quantitatively assess corrupt program? I thought Nazism was pretty high, and slavery wasn't so great either but I guess those weren't NCAA sanctioned programs. I'm guessing the SI rating was some guy sitting in his room just listing big scandals and typing away. Big time college sports is corrupt. Make no mistake - Jarvis got fired for losing and being arrogant about it. By the time he left, no one in the AD was sad to see him go. I think he just turned very sour once he didn't take the job offered by Michael Jordan, and at the same time was pressing St John's to hire his son if he did. They outright refused, and his relationship with the school went south immediately after.
Don't take the bait; that's FUN talking, not one of the the vast majority of posters. He clearly knows the truth and what he is talking about and he plays with and embellishes the "truth" for laughs. On the other hand there are lots of guys out there who have no idea of went on, is going on, or ever will be going on, and yet they embellish their opinions. Just another observation of mine.
Just trying to process this: so far, our discussion of great SJU coaches has led us to comparisons with Nazis, slavery and Sawney Bean. (Thanks, Fun, for making me google "Sawney Bean" and learn something today. Who says these boards are a waste of time ?)
Heaven forbid we should hit a three-game losing streak at some point this season...
I think the true measure of a modern coach is where was the program when you started and where was the program when you finished. Even without the vacated wins you can't argue that the program was in far worse shape when Jarvis left than when he started despite Marcus carrying the team to that NIT, even more so than Mahoney, in my eyes, because at least the image of the program was that STJ was still a major player when he left. When Jarvis left, and with the purusant affairs that I blame on him as well (I know many of you blame those on FH), it was a punchline. IOW, yeah I agree with you. As far as Norm he, unlike the BS spewed from Jarvis after he was fired, at least left the program in better shape than it was when he got there.
No. They weren't NCAA programs at all. That must have slid past you. For the record slavery and National Socialism were both pretty bad, but slavery is much worse, because its been going on for 20000 years. And compared to Stalin and Mao Hitler was a piker. Anyway didn't the Jarvae compare the NCAA questioning his integrity to the Gestapo? Charming.
Some random thoughts.
My wife who I have known for about twenty five years recently asked me how the St. John's program fell so far over the last twenty years since Lou retired. I had a hard time answering that question as there are so many reasons. However, as I read through this thread, I realize that I enjoyed much of those twenty years. The embarrassment of the program under Jarvis has to be the worst thing that happened by far. I give Norm Roberts credit for keeping it alive, although he was a lousy coach. I had high hopes for Lavin to bring it back but will wait and see. I also thought Fran was headed in the right direction.
My wife who I have known for about twenty five years recently asked me how the St. John's program fell so far over the last twenty years since Lou retired. I had a hard time answering that question as there are so many reasons. However, as I read through this thread, I realize that I enjoyed much of those twenty years. The embarrassment of the program under Jarvis has to be the worst thing that happened by far. I give Norm Roberts credit for keeping it alive, although he was a lousy coach. I had high hopes for Lavin to bring it back but will wait and see. I also thought Fran was headed in the right direction.
Ray Morgan
Well-known member
Very simple. Just tell her that good players stopped coming here. If she asks why, show her this thread where she can read about a series of coaches who were inept, or, in one case, vile. You can add that good players don't go to schools with clueless coaches, unless you pay them. I guess we weren't paying, or, when paying, our budget was too low to attract the top high school players. So we got Abe Keita.
beast of the east
Active member
Nazi Germany definitely had the best uniforms.