Should SJU apply to the ACC ?

[SJU87]

To expand on my thoughts, I think the bball schools are kidding themselves if they stay in a watered down BE with Big 12 leftovers. Now is the time to form a new league.  

 

Agreed. Really hope we stop trying to dance with the football schools.

 

this is a very dangerous path for us.

We (as a group) get one shot at getting this right. If we get it wrong, our programs are dead.

When all the dust settles you'll have 4 football conferences with 16 or even 18 teams in each.

There will be 8-12 football schools on the outside looking in. Entering into a conference with those of them that have big basketball programs should be our #1 option. Once the dust has settled there will be virtually no chance of those cast off football programs blowing up the new league the way the BE was destroyed. there just won't be anywhere for them to go.

Going with a small, catholic school conference could be a disaster. Such a small/weak conference could give MSG another reason to pursue the ACC tournament. If we are a small conference and we lose MSG we are toast.

We won't be able to attract and retain elite coaches or talent.

But a national hoops league that includes SJU, Gtown, Nova, ND, Kansas, K. St., BYU, Gonzaga, Marquette, Xavier...etc would be able to compete for TV dollars and recruits with the ACC.

 

I agree, but Gonzaga ? We got bad memories of Gonzaga and their too far away. And we couldn't call the conference BE anymore. Let in all the Big 12 teams , they seem like quality teams and they'll be a great East/ Mid West rivalry. The new Big East would have a bigger market then the new ACC would. Those Southern states are tiny compared to the Mid Western States.

 

[logen]

The super conferences are leaving the NCAA for football, that is a foregone conclusion. Now whether the NCAA somehow weasels there way into the brave new world is another question but if they do they will be the NCAA in name only. And that will only happen if it is advatageous for whatever reasons to the super conferences. What happens to basketball is a good question and no one really knows; while it generates money it is not nearly what football generates so there is a line of reasoning that says the super conferences will just leave it alone, not mess with March Madness as to not appear too "greedy" to the naive public. The other line of reasoning is that the super conferences break away completely and hold their own "March Madness" but in any case college athletics are never again going to look the way we grew up with them.  

 

[SJUFAN2]

To expand on my thoughts, I think the bball schools are kidding themselves if they stay in a watered down BE with Big 12 leftovers. Now is the time to form a new league.  

 

Agreed. Really hope we stop trying to dance with the football schools.

 

this is a very dangerous path for us.

We (as a group) get one shot at getting this right. If we get it wrong, our programs are dead.

When all the dust settles you'll have 4 football conferences with 16 or even 18 teams in each.

There will be 8-12 football schools on the outside looking in. Entering into a conference with those of them that have big basketball programs should be our #1 option. Once the dust has settled there will be virtually no chance of those cast off football programs blowing up the new league the way the BE was destroyed. there just won't be anywhere for them to go.

Going with a small, catholic school conference could be a disaster. Such a small/weak conference could give MSG another reason to pursue the ACC tournament. If we are a small conference and we lose MSG we are toast.

We won't be able to attract and retain elite coaches or talent.

But a national hoops league that includes SJU, Gtown, Nova, ND, Kansas, K. St., BYU, Gonzaga, Marquette, Xavier...etc would be able to compete for TV dollars and recruits with the ACC.

 

I agree, but Gonzaga ? We got bad memories of Gonzaga and their too far away. And we couldn't call the conference BE anymore. Let in all the Big 12 teams , they seem like quality teams and they'll be a great East/ Mid West rivalry. The new Big East would have a bigger market then the new ACC would. Those Southern states are tiny compared to the Mid Western States.

 

Go big or go home at this point.

East conf of: SJU, Gtown, Nova, SH, Prov, Xavier, (pick two A-10 teams), etc

West Conf of: ND, Marquette, Depaul, KS, K St., Gonzaga, BYU, Butler, etc. 

 

[SJUhoopNUT]

To expand on my thoughts, I think the bball schools are kidding themselves if they stay in a watered down BE with Big 12 leftovers. Now is the time to form a new league.  

 

Agreed. Really hope we stop trying to dance with the football schools.

 

this is a very dangerous path for us.

We (as a group) get one shot at getting this right. If we get it wrong, our programs are dead.

When all the dust settles you'll have 4 football conferences with 16 or even 18 teams in each.

There will be 8-12 football schools on the outside looking in. Entering into a conference with those of them that have big basketball programs should be our #1 option. Once the dust has settled there will be virtually no chance of those cast off football programs blowing up the new league the way the BE was destroyed. there just won't be anywhere for them to go.

Going with a small, catholic school conference could be a disaster. Such a small/weak conference could give MSG another reason to pursue the ACC tournament. If we are a small conference and we lose MSG we are toast.

We won't be able to attract and retain elite coaches or talent.

But a national hoops league that includes SJU, Gtown, Nova, ND, Kansas, K. St., BYU, Gonzaga, Marquette, Xavier...etc would be able to compete for TV dollars and recruits with the ACC.

 

I agree, but Gonzaga ? We got bad memories of Gonzaga and their too far away. And we couldn't call the conference BE anymore. Let in all the Big 12 teams , they seem like quality teams and they'll be a great East/ Mid West rivalry. The new Big East would have a bigger market then the new ACC would. Those Southern states are tiny compared to the Mid Western States.

 

Go big or go home at this point.

East conf of: SJU, Gtown, Nova, SH, Prov, Xavier, Butler, etc

West Conf of: ND, Marquette, Depaul, KS, K St., Gonzaga, BYU, Depaul, etc.

 

I like that league

 

[loughlinguy]

The 4 16 team football schools will secede from the NCAA. They will not need it anymore, and there will be no reason to share their money with the NCAA. They will hold their own 64 team bb tournament, and it will gut the NCAA tournament, which would be a shell of itself without those 64 teams. Go down the list of top 20 bb teams every year, take out the football schools, and you are not left with much. They will also do a real national football championship with say the top 16 football teams invited. The Big East is dead, unfortunately. WV will go to the SEC, two other schools will wind up in the ACC, and the remaining football schools will go to the Big 12 to replace Texas, Oklahoma, et al. That conferenece will still be called the Big 12. What will remain are the pure basketball schools and ND. Not enough for a big tv deal, and surely not enough to keep MSG as the championship venue. Sad. Villanova saw the handwriting on the wall a while back and started a football program.  Our leadership, as usual, was asleep at the switch. The only hope is if the NCAA steps in now to stop the these mega conferences, but it probably has no legal basis upon which to do so.

 

[bball purist]

The 4 16 team football schools will secede from the NCAA. They will not need it anymore, and there will be no reason to share their money with the NCAA. They will hold their own 64 team bb tournament, and it will gut the NCAA tournament, which would be a shell of itself without those 64 teams. Go down the list of top 20 bb teams every year, take out the football schools, and you are not left with much. They will also do a real national football championship with say the top 16 football teams invited. The Big East is dead, unfortunately. WV will go to the SEC, two other schools will wind up in the ACC, and the remaining football schools will go to the Big 12 to replace Texas, Oklahoma, et al. That conferenece will still be called the Big 12. What will remain are the pure basketball schools and ND. Not enough for a big tv deal, and surely not enough to keep MSG as the championship venue. Sad. Villanova saw the handwriting on the wall a while back and started a football program.  Our leadership, as usual, was asleep at the switch. The only hope is if the NCAA steps in now to stop the these mega conferences, but it probably has no legal basis upon which to do so.

 Not. WVU red headed step child - rejected by ACC AND SEC. Anyone surprised? WVU in a nutshell - 

 

[SJU87]

I don't like Western teams, their fans are too laid back. I want colleges with real sports fans .  

 

[TheVig23]

To expand on my thoughts, I think the bball schools are kidding themselves if they stay in a watered down BE with Big 12 leftovers. Now is the time to form a new league.  

 

Agreed. Really hope we stop trying to dance with the football schools.

 

this is a very dangerous path for us.

We (as a group) get one shot at getting this right. If we get it wrong, our programs are dead.

When all the dust settles you'll have 4 football conferences with 16 or even 18 teams in each.

There will be 8-12 football schools on the outside looking in. Entering into a conference with those of them that have big basketball programs should be our #1 option. Once the dust has settled there will be virtually no chance of those cast off football programs blowing up the new league the way the BE was destroyed. there just won't be anywhere for them to go.

Going with a small, catholic school conference could be a disaster. Such a small/weak conference could give MSG another reason to pursue the ACC tournament. If we are a small conference and we lose MSG we are toast.

We won't be able to attract and retain elite coaches or talent.

But a national hoops league that includes SJU, Gtown, Nova, ND, Kansas, K. St., BYU, Gonzaga, Marquette, Xavier...etc would be able to compete for TV dollars and recruits with the ACC.

 

I agree, but Gonzaga ? We got bad memories of Gonzaga and their too far away. And we couldn't call the conference BE anymore. Let in all the Big 12 teams , they seem like quality teams and they'll be a great East/ Mid West rivalry. The new Big East would have a bigger market then the new ACC would. Those Southern states are tiny compared to the Mid Western States.

 

Go big or go home at this point.

East conf of: SJU, Gtown, Nova, SH, Prov, Xavier, Butler, etc

West Conf of: ND, Marquette, Depaul, KS, K St., Gonzaga, BYU, Depaul, etc.

 

I like that league

 

In this scenario what happens to Kansas, K State, BYU and Xavier's(not sure if they have one) football teams? Where do you see ND ending up in football?

 

[SJUFAN2]

To expand on my thoughts, I think the bball schools are kidding themselves if they stay in a watered down BE with Big 12 leftovers. Now is the time to form a new league.  

 

Agreed. Really hope we stop trying to dance with the football schools.

 

this is a very dangerous path for us.

We (as a group) get one shot at getting this right. If we get it wrong, our programs are dead.

When all the dust settles you'll have 4 football conferences with 16 or even 18 teams in each.

There will be 8-12 football schools on the outside looking in. Entering into a conference with those of them that have big basketball programs should be our #1 option. Once the dust has settled there will be virtually no chance of those cast off football programs blowing up the new league the way the BE was destroyed. there just won't be anywhere for them to go.

Going with a small, catholic school conference could be a disaster. Such a small/weak conference could give MSG another reason to pursue the ACC tournament. If we are a small conference and we lose MSG we are toast.

We won't be able to attract and retain elite coaches or talent.

But a national hoops league that includes SJU, Gtown, Nova, ND, Kansas, K. St., BYU, Gonzaga, Marquette, Xavier...etc would be able to compete for TV dollars and recruits with the ACC.

 

I agree, but Gonzaga ? We got bad memories of Gonzaga and their too far away. And we couldn't call the conference BE anymore. Let in all the Big 12 teams , they seem like quality teams and they'll be a great East/ Mid West rivalry. The new Big East would have a bigger market then the new ACC would. Those Southern states are tiny compared to the Mid Western States.

 

Go big or go home at this point.

East conf of: SJU, Gtown, Nova, SH, Prov, Xavier, Butler, etc

West Conf of: ND, Marquette, Depaul, KS, K St., Gonzaga, BYU, Depaul, etc.

 

I like that league

 

In this scenario what happens to Kansas, K State, BYU and Xavier's(not sure if they have one) football teams? Where do you see ND ending up in football?

 

ND and BYU are independents already. I'd imagine they'd all be independents and some might just get rid of football altogether.

 

[SJUFAN2]

I don't like Western teams, their fans are too laid back. I want colleges with real sports fans .  

 

True to a degree, but that's a national conference with a national recruiting presence and more importantly a national footprint to sell as a TV package.

I don't think there's anyway this happens because I don't see any way the ND stays as an independent football team on the outside looking in at the national title playoffs every year.

 

[tom in salem]

 Maybe I'm being overly optimistic, but I'm happy this split is finally here.
It was always the elephant in the room.
Time to move on and make the best of what was a perfect situation.
You think the BE football schools are happy to leave?
It could be a lot worse.
We've got good company as a nuclues to go forward.
I just in no way see the football schools breaking away.
First of all, it's an attorney's wet dream.
Secondly, it takes away fom the Madness.
Most importantly, this is all about football $.
Do you honestly think Nebraska, Penn St. or Miami give a flying sh!t about March?
They're getting ready for their spring football game at that time of year.

 

[ManHATTEN1]

The demise of this league was caused by allowing BIg East schools to have basketball only univeristies and not have football be a requirement. On top of the mere $5 million dollar opt out fee.

The ACC is upping theirs from $10-13 to $20 million now. 

 

[MCNPA]

As gman posted, not happening. This is all about football and the unbelievable revenue it generates. It is going to culminate in the eventual breakaway of the super conferences from the NCAA unless they decide that having the NCAA as a front shill helps them financially and politically and they don't want to share that football money with any outsiders anymore. The college presidents are in the money making business, just like any other corporation. The bball only schools better hop to it, organize and negotiate a TV contract pronto or get lost in the flood.  

 


College basketball is dead if the 4 football conferences secede from the NCAA.

 

Sjufan, Nova doesn't really play football now. I think they will be in a league with Georgetown and Nova and others.

 

[austour]

 did we get a football team I'm not aware of? No? Then no shot of us being in the acc.

Zags tweeted the basketball only be schools had a confernece call today.

 

Its not beyond the realm of possibility that the ACC could add a couple of hoops only teams.

I wouldn't impact how they split their football revenue and it would strengthen their hoops dominance.

What they've put together is the 4th best (out of 4) football conference in the country but the top hoops conference.

 that being the case, I would add Nova and SJU over Pukon and Rutgers, simply because SJ's would give ultimate NYC stronghold, and Nove Philly. To heck with Pukon and Rutger's nubby football programs. That's why Edsall went to the Terps!

 

Nova has a football team so yu can't include us with them.

If I were the ACC I'd add Uconn and Nova for football and SJU and G'town for hoops only.

You'd have two 8 team football divisions and two 9 team hoops divisions.

 

No one will be picking up Nova for football in the new major conferences. I hope that they are smart enough to give up that dream before they waste millions oni it.

 

[logen]

 Maybe I'm being overly optimistic, but I'm happy this split is finally here.
It was always the elephant in the room.
Time to move on and make the best of what was a perfect situation.
You think the BE football schools are happy to leave?
It could be a lot worse.
We've got good company as a nuclues to go forward.
I just in no way see the football schools breaking away.
First of all, it's an attorney's wet dream.
Secondly, it takes away fom the Madness.
Most importantly, this is all about football $.
Do you honestly think Nebraska, Penn St. or Miami give a flying sh!t about March?
They're getting ready for their spring football game at that time of year.

 

Don't agree at all with the attorney angle although I am way out of my league discussing law but the NCAA has no legal jurisdiction over universities. And I believe were there a legal card to be played it would have been tried already by some disgruntled alumni lawyer of one of the schools that already jumped, say a BC grad. But again, I am talking out of my behind here, it is not an area of expertise by any means. But the bottom line is the football power conferences are tired of sharing their revenues; they want it all, and they are tired of the NCAA vacating championships and snooping into who paid what for whom. Certainly I've been wrong before but I believe a well laid out scenario is just playing out. I would agree the details were and are not completely decided but the final result pretty much was and is.

 

[austour]

You know who I really feel bad for. The 40-50 teams that play Div 1a football (or whatever the modern terminology is, I am not a college football fan) that won't be included in the mega conferences.

Anyway, the best case scenario is that the AD's and Conference Admins realize that they're being greedy prigs and make a deal with the NCAA where they take football away for themselves and leave hoops as it is thereby allowing the NCAA to maintain some face and letting all the other schools to reorganize with hoops as their athletic emphasis.

 

[Moose]

Nova has a football team so yu can't include us with them.

If I were the ACC I'd add Uconn and Nova for football and SJU and G'town for hoops only.

You'd have two 8 team football divisions and two 9 team hoops divisions.

 

Gtown has a football team too you know.

 

[redken]

At this point, I'd love see St. John's, Nova, and Georgetown go to the ACC and be part of what's going to be unquestionably the nations #1 best basketball conference. But despite the appeal of the New York (and Philly and DC) media market, it's highly unlikely this will happen. What I'd hate to see is slapped-together, reconstructed BE with football schools from Texas, Kansas, Iowa and elsewhere -- schools that will further destroy the geographical identity of the conference, continue the pattern of pushing around the non-football schools, and inevitably be looking take their football$ elsewhere before too long.  

 

[Moose]

You know who I really feel bad for. The 40-50 teams that play Div 1a football (or whatever the modern terminology is, I am not a college football fan) that won't be included in the mega conferences.

Anyway, the best case scenario is that the AD's and Conference Admins realize that they're being greedy prigs and make a deal with the NCAA where they take football away for themselves and leave hoops as it is thereby allowing the NCAA to maintain some face and letting all the other schools to reorganize with hoops as their athletic emphasis.

 

Exactly. They are the schools and the fan bases that really need to be concerned. Basketball is not going anywhere. March Madness isn't either. Its a double digit billion dollar entity.

 

[basketballjones]

Even though they are putting a nice spin on it, I think the Big East is in trouble. The basketball schools should settle this right now. Don't wait. Don't try to save the Big East by bringing in TCU and hoping Kansas comes in next year. Get the non football schools and a few others together and make a basketball conference. There is a report just out that Nova wants to go to the ACC.

The new Bi East should be St. John's, Villanova, Notre Dame (football team stays indepedent), Georgetown, Seton Hall, Providence, Marquette, DePaul, St. Joe's, Temple. Make it a NY, Philly, Chicago, Boston rivalry. We'd still have the best basketball conference and save a couple of rivalries. 10 teams are enough.