Seton Hall Game

[thetux1]

Sampson found his stroke somewhere in the middle of the game last night but I agree with Lavin keeping him on the bench in the final minutes or so. He's cost us 2 games in crunch time this year missing FTs late and turning it over and isn't exactly the headiest player on the planet. Sanchez was in and made a heady play tipping that ridiculous pass out of bounds and probably saving us from a disastrous loss. As for those getting on Gift he's the only banger we got and did a good job on Teague who looked like he might score 30 after the 1st few possessions of the game.

 

[beast of the east]

Sampson found his stroke somewhere in the middle of the game last night but I agree with Lavin keeping him on the bench in the final minutes or so. He's cost us 2 games in crunch time this year missing FTs late and turning it over and isn't exactly the headiest player on the planet. Sanchez was in and made a heady play tipping that ridiculous pass out of bounds and probably saving us from a disastrous loss. As for those getting on Gift he's the only banger we got and did a good job on Teague who looked like he might score 30 after the 1st few possessions of the game.

To the refs credit (and I don't do that often), they really let Teague and GG bang hard. Neither player complained, and GG didn't yield an inch to Teague - no one on our team could have done that. They weren't grabbing, but had either slammed a guard that hard, the guard would end up in the cheap seats. I hadn't seen that much banging since Oakley was clobbering people down low for the Knicks. GG was man enough for the job.

Another final note: definitely because of the weather, the floor was very slippery. I think when you let all the photographers, staff, press, and courtside fans walk on the perimeter of the floor was salty, sandy shoes, the floor gets dangerously slippery. No less than 10 times did players on either squad end up on the floor, and luckily no one seriously hurt.

 

[MarkRedman]

Really glad that Coach saw it fit to pull Balamou's redshirt season
He now has a better seat on the bench rather than behind it to watch the game

 

[beast of the east]

Really glad that Coach saw it fit to pull Balamou's redshirt season
He now has a better seat on the bench rather than behind it to watch the game

Eventually, the reason will come out. Even though it seems mindless, I have the feeling the reason will make sense.

 

[ccnobz]

Really glad that Coach saw it fit to pull Balamou's redshirt season
He now has a better seat on the bench rather than behind it to watch the game

STJ finally wins it's first BE game, and this is your take away?

 

[SJU1512]

Watching the Red Storm Report last week one of the primary issues has started to crystalize for me: there is a disconnect between the style Lavin thinks we play in theory and the way we actually play on the court. He referenced (paraphrashing) fast paced, increased possessions. Few things could be further from the truth.

Despite what he says the reality seems to be that Lavin likes a style and players who are "in control". That's probably why he doesn't like to press - too helter skelter. That's proably why he can't handle Branch for long stretches, and has gone away from Rysheed at times - they try to make things happen and in doing so turn it over sometimes, even though they might make 3x more great plays in the process. And that certainly seems to be why he likes PGIV so much, citing that turnover stat constantly, while ignoring the fact that he has again morphed into one of our primary ballhandlers but doesn't have an assist in 5 consecutive games.

All of this is surprising, because John Wooden, Lavin's mentor, said "If you're not making mistakes, you're not doing anything."

That summarizes where Lavin has us this year. Starting tonight, he needs to turn this team - and particularly its best players, like Jordan - loose. Make a mistake, get back on defense and don't worry that a sub is coming for you. Turn up the volume defensively to at least 3/4 court. If we're going to go down this season we may as well go down playing our game; the game Lavin talks about us playing but that we've actually played for maybe 10% of games so far this year.

Agree, nice post.

Great win, and a good spot from Lavin finally upping the tempo. It wasn't hard to see how much we are accentuating our players' skillsets by pressing and playing at that pace. Everyone seemed more comfortable and fluid, and no real surprise that Sampson in particular had his best game in a long time when he's put in a position where he can let his athleticism go to work.

I've been pointing out PGIV's no assist streak, so to be fair a great job by him picking up four in somewhat limited minutes. But at the same time last night was perhaps the best example yet of how good we can be when Jordan and Branch are creating. While it wasn't his best overall game, I thought Jordan was brilliant in the 2nd half last night. Some of the finds he made in transition and in the half-court was possibly the best play-making we've had all season.

On the down side, I could not and still cannot believe that we, in sequence (A) burned a timeout (our last) off our own made free throw when it was SHU ball, (B) subbed on a SHU made free-throw, which allowed them to set their defense instead of just getting the ball inbounds, both of which resulted in (C) us having no timeouts and nobody open so we threw the ball 94 feet out of bounds. Pretty smart play by Pointer, but we should have never, ever, in 2 million years been in that position. Truly horrific game management from the bench.

 

[ccnobz]

Watching the Red Storm Report last week one of the primary issues has started to crystalize for me: there is a disconnect between the style Lavin thinks we play in theory and the way we actually play on the court. He referenced (paraphrashing) fast paced, increased possessions. Few things could be further from the truth.

Despite what he says the reality seems to be that Lavin likes a style and players who are "in control". That's probably why he doesn't like to press - too helter skelter. That's proably why he can't handle Branch for long stretches, and has gone away from Rysheed at times - they try to make things happen and in doing so turn it over sometimes, even though they might make 3x more great plays in the process. And that certainly seems to be why he likes PGIV so much, citing that turnover stat constantly, while ignoring the fact that he has again morphed into one of our primary ballhandlers but doesn't have an assist in 5 consecutive games.

All of this is surprising, because John Wooden, Lavin's mentor, said "If you're not making mistakes, you're not doing anything."

That summarizes where Lavin has us this year. Starting tonight, he needs to turn this team - and particularly its best players, like Jordan - loose. Make a mistake, get back on defense and don't worry that a sub is coming for you. Turn up the volume defensively to at least 3/4 court. If we're going to go down this season we may as well go down playing our game; the game Lavin talks about us playing but that we've actually played for maybe 10% of games so far this year.

Agree, nice post.

Great win, and a good spot from Lavin finally upping the tempo. It wasn't hard to see how much we are accentuating our players' skillsets by pressing and playing at that pace. Everyone seemed more comfortable and fluid, and no real surprise that Sampson in particular had his best game in a long time when he's put in a position where he can let his athleticism go to work.

I've been pointing out PGIV's no assist streak, so to be fair a great job by him picking up four in somewhat limited minutes. But at the same time last night was perhaps the best example yet of how good we can be when Jordan and Branch are creating. While it wasn't his best overall game, I thought Jordan was brilliant in the 2nd half last night. Some of the finds he made in transition and in the half-court was possibly the best play-making we've had all season.

On the down side, I could not and still cannot believe that we, in sequence (A) burned a timeout (our last) off our own made free throw when it was SHU ball, (B) subbed on a SHU made free-throw, which allowed them to set their defense instead of just getting the ball inbounds, both of which resulted in (C) us having no timeouts and nobody open so we threw the ball 94 feet out of bounds. Pretty smart play by Pointer, but we should have never, ever, in 2 million years been in that position. Truly horrific game management from the bench.

Agree on all points. I loved that pass by Jordan to Sanchez for the dunk. I thought Branch played well also.

 

[Class of 72]

Really glad that Coach saw it fit to pull Balamou's redshirt season
He now has a better seat on the bench rather than behind it to watch the game

Eventually, the reason will come out. Even though it seems mindless, I have the feeling the reason will make sense.

Good luck with that thinking! Perhaps he wants to leave the roster as gutted as possible in 2016 of his own players. Nothing the wizard says makes much sense anymore. An example is his statement regarding Rysheed Jordan as being the most advanced player at his stage than any player he has ever coached. Saying such a stupid thing about a kid picked as preseason ROY and who has been struggling is insulting to even the casual fan. It is safe to say he will not be ROY and is, in fact, one of the reasons for the slow start. This team was recruited by Lavin and Chiles to compete in the old Big East, to challenge Syracuse in NYC, to compete head to head with Louisville, Cincy, WV, UConn, Pitt, ND, Gtown and Nova. That we are still a bottom feeder in a 10 team weak Big East shows that the only progress has been Lavin's ability to sign ranked players that are poor shooters and even poorer decision makers on the court and his ability to overhype them to the point where they are bound to underimpress, or leave the program entirely as have half of the recruits who originally committed.
As for Felix Balamou, he started the game after his redshirt was pulled and the reasons were his great practices and his speedy recovery. True to form, Lavin lied and has now buried him deeper than the handsome French kid with the great haircut.

 

[TonyinFairfield]

Didn't read the whole thread, but Gift was deserving of props. He is what this team is lacking- a mature guy who gives up his body and knows his limitations. He manned up big time when guarding Teague, and probably has the bruises to show for it. He sits, comes in when called upon, and busts his hump until he sits again. No faces, no gestures, no bitching and moaning. We need more players with his attitude.

I gained so much more respect for Gift after watching him stand up to Teague under the basket. When Teague was backing up on Gift, it was as if he was backing up against a brick wall! I'm sure Gift is dealing with some aches and pains today.

 

[1and1sju]

Nice to simply get back in the win column today. However you get them, wins feel good and these guys deserved it. I'm sure this stretch hasn't been easy on them.

I was particularly impressed with D'angelo's midrange game last night. He made some unbelievably tough shots!

 

[ccnobz]

Didn't read the whole thread, but Gift was deserving of props. He is what this team is lacking- a mature guy who gives up his body and knows his limitations. He manned up big time when guarding Teague, and probably has the bruises to show for it. He sits, comes in when called upon, and busts his hump until he sits again. No faces, no gestures, no bitching and moaning. We need more players with his attitude.

I gained so much more respect for Gift after watching him stand up to Teague under the basket. When Teague was backing up on Gift, it was as if he was backing up against a brick wall! I'm sure Gift is dealing with some aches and pains today.

He played great D on Teague on one particular play that led to a break...Jordan to Sanchez for a dunk. We all remember the dunk, but his D made it happen

 

[Ray Morgan]

Nice to simply get back in the win column today. However you get them, wins feel good and these guys deserved it. I'm sure this stretch hasn't been easy on them.

I was particularly impressed with D'angelo's midrange game last night. He made some unbelievably tough shots!

D Lo is such an old school player. He gets his points with savvy instead of in your face athleticism. Just wish he would stop the 3 point shots unless he had his feet set an inch behind the line. Never understood these guys who shoot 3's 2 feet or more behind the line. You get the same 3 points if your foot is just behind the line.

 

[usguard]

Watching the Red Storm Report last week one of the primary issues has started to crystalize for me: there is a disconnect between the style Lavin thinks we play in theory and the way we actually play on the court. He referenced (paraphrashing) fast paced, increased possessions. Few things could be further from the truth.

Despite what he says the reality seems to be that Lavin likes a style and players who are "in control". That's probably why he doesn't like to press - too helter skelter. That's proably why he can't handle Branch for long stretches, and has gone away from Rysheed at times - they try to make things happen and in doing so turn it over sometimes, even though they might make 3x more great plays in the process. And that certainly seems to be why he likes PGIV so much, citing that turnover stat constantly, while ignoring the fact that he has again morphed into one of our primary ballhandlers but doesn't have an assist in 5 consecutive games.

All of this is surprising, because John Wooden, Lavin's mentor, said "If you're not making mistakes, you're not doing anything."

That summarizes where Lavin has us this year. Starting tonight, he needs to turn this team - and particularly its best players, like Jordan - loose. Make a mistake, get back on defense and don't worry that a sub is coming for you. Turn up the volume defensively to at least 3/4 court. If we're going to go down this season we may as well go down playing our game; the game Lavin talks about us playing but that we've actually played for maybe 10% of games so far this year.

Agree, nice post.

Great win, and a good spot from Lavin finally upping the tempo. It wasn't hard to see how much we are accentuating our players' skillsets by pressing and playing at that pace. Everyone seemed more comfortable and fluid, and no real surprise that Sampson in particular had his best game in a long time when he's put in a position where he can let his athleticism go to work.

I've been pointing out PGIV's no assist streak, so to be fair a great job by him picking up four in somewhat limited minutes. But at the same time last night was perhaps the best example yet of how good we can be when Jordan and Branch are creating. While it wasn't his best overall game, I thought Jordan was brilliant in the 2nd half last night. Some of the finds he made in transition and in the half-court was possibly the best play-making we've had all season.

On the down side, I could not and still cannot believe that we, in sequence (A) burned a timeout (our last) off our own made free throw when it was SHU ball, (B) subbed on a SHU made free-throw, which allowed them to set their defense instead of just getting the ball inbounds, both of which resulted in (C) us having no timeouts and nobody open so we threw the ball 94 feet out of bounds. Pretty smart play by Pointer, but we should have never, ever, in 2 million years been in that position. Truly horrific game management from the bench.

VeryTrue At t blow I said I hope they do not blow it. Well they didn't but it was not fun to watch Harrison missing 2 free throws could have iced it sooner But we do shoot free throws better this yr It is just amazing what we had to do to get a win in confr

 

[beast of the east]

Nice to simply get back in the win column today. However you get them, wins feel good and these guys deserved it. I'm sure this stretch hasn't been easy on them.

I was particularly impressed with D'angelo's midrange game last night. He made some unbelievably tough shots!

D Lo is such an old school player. He gets his points with savvy instead of in your face athleticism. Just wish he would stop the 3 point shots unless he had his feet set an inch behind the line. Never understood these guys who shoot 3's 2 feet or more behind the line. You get the same 3 points if your foot is just behind the line.

Some validity in your point, and some big holes. The validity is that the object in basketball was always to get the easiest shot possible - until the dawn of the three point shot. I remember once reading an opponent describe Oscar Robertson, by any measure one of the greatest players ever, and way ahead of his time. The opponent said that the Big O was so big (6'5" at the time was big for a guard), quick, and strong. If you gave him a 20 foot jumper, he'd work for 16. If you gave him 16, he wanted 12. If you gave him twelve he wanted 8, and if you gave him 8, he wanted a layup. The three point shot destroys that, with guys actually stepping backwards to shoot behind the arc.

The hole in your thinking, is that the college three point shot is ONLY 20'6". 8th grade girls can make a 3 from that distance, so a college player can easily shoot from 22-23 feet with ease. I take exception to these shots 4-6 feet behind the arc, but not a couple of feet.

 

[Mean Gene]

Forgetting about us coughing up 16 points of a 17 point lead for a minute.

1) By far and away, this was the best roll we had all year opening up a 65-48 point lead in the second half. When you consider that SH had opened the game w a 15-5 lead, we had outscored them 60-33 since the quick SH start.

2) The return of Jakarr Sampson. He looked confident from 15, burning the nets on 3 straight shots, and threw a couple of AWESOME moves inside, including an incredible put back jam. He looked like a dominant player after a slow start.

3) Orlando Sanchez was Mr. Inside and Outside - I think he nailed three 3's, and slammed a few home also. He took it strong to the hole and looked at times like the best big man on the court, playing like a -gasp- NBA prospect

4) The return of Branch - Jamal looked confident, and made some really nice passes and moves.

5) Harrison played a solid game if you toss out the late failures.

6) We have really short memories. It seemed to me that's the kind of game our golden era Johnnies would play. Build up a big lead, and then cough it up. It's why I went home hoarse back then, and did tonight as well.

7) Coach C. was in the house. Good to see him.

8) Walter Berry in the house. Was hoping he'd sub in the last two minutes. He looks like he could still play a little

9) 5,000 Chris Mullins and they all couldn't shoot - but a really nice job to invite the Mullin clan to the game.

And therein lies the the problem. Playing our "A" game only results in a 1 point win, at home, over a mediocre opponent. Our "B" game wouldn't have been good enough against the Hall at home? We only have so many "A" games in us, and it still won't add up to too many more wins.

I see it the opposite way Ray. Conversely, I still don't think we played our "A" game for 40 minutes last night or at all this season. Seton Hall started to come back when our bigs got into foul trouble and were out of the game. These are the types of games we've been losing all year and we finally won one. It was actually a heady play by Pointer to throw the ball down court rather that take a 5 second call there and a heady play by Sanchez to make sure he touched the ball. OK, D-Lo missed a couple of free throws, he blew the Penn St. game because of a missed free throw. Jordan also missed one of two with a chance to ice the game but I think if the team starts to win some games and they relax a little they will make those FT's at the end. The bottom line is, they found a way to win the type of game that they have been losing all year. Progress was made. As I have said since last week, we need to hope for incremental improvement every game and then hopefully steal the Big East Tournament on our home floor. That's the only way we get into the Big Dance. With this conference the way it is, I still believe if the team can make incremental improvements every game and are able to bring their "A" game for 40 minutes come Big East Tournament time I don't see why they can't win it. I view last night as another incremental step in that direction. Like everyone else on this board, I too feel that Lavin's coaching ability is limited, but, he did take his UCLA teams on some nice tournament runs. Maybe I'm just glass half full guy.

 

[Ray Morgan]

Nice to simply get back in the win column today. However you get them, wins feel good and these guys deserved it. I'm sure this stretch hasn't been easy on them.

I was particularly impressed with D'angelo's midrange game last night. He made some unbelievably tough shots!

D Lo is such an old school player. He gets his points with savvy instead of in your face athleticism. Just wish he would stop the 3 point shots unless he had his feet set an inch behind the line. Never understood these guys who shoot 3's 2 feet or more behind the line. You get the same 3 points if your foot is just behind the line.

Some validity in your point, and some big holes. The validity is that the object in basketball was always to get the easiest shot possible - until the dawn of the three point shot. I remember once reading an opponent describe Oscar Robertson, by any measure one of the greatest players ever, and way ahead of his time. The opponent said that the Big O was so big (6'5" at the time was big for a guard), quick, and strong. If you gave him a 20 foot jumper, he'd work for 16. If you gave him 16, he wanted 12. If you gave him twelve he wanted 8, and if you gave him 8, he wanted a layup. The three point shot destroys that, with guys actually stepping backwards to shoot behind the arc.

The hole in your thinking, is that the college three point shot is ONLY 20'6". 8th grade girls can make a 3 from that distance, so a college player can easily shoot from 22-23 feet with ease. I take exception to these shots 4-6 feet behind the arc, but not a couple of feet.

Years ago, I was at the Garden watching Louisville playing St. John's. In warmups, every Louisville player is lined up with their feet an inch behind the line, taking jump shots. SJU players are scattered everywhere. For a marginal shooting team like SJU, every inch matters. Imagine if the line was two feet back from where it is now. What do you think the team shoots then from 3? The same? No chance.

 

[Ray Morgan]

Just wondering where everyone is on the instructions to foul SH before they get off a 3. Up 3, you have about a 65% chance of winning, and a 35% chance of overtime by letting them shoot. Losing is almost off the table in regulation. Just using the approximate 3 point stats of the guys on the floor for the Hall. Overplay a few guys and contest, and the odds go up. By fouling, you add 2 factors: SJU is a so so shooting team from the line, and now you are dealing with added pressure. Plus, inbounding the ball opens up for a steal or a tie up, and then you can lose. We all saw that before. If you are the coach, what call do you make? Just thought leaving 4.9 on the clock was too much risk at that point.

 

[beast of the east]

Nice to simply get back in the win column today. However you get them, wins feel good and these guys deserved it. I'm sure this stretch hasn't been easy on them.

I was particularly impressed with D'angelo's midrange game last night. He made some unbelievably tough shots!

D Lo is such an old school player. He gets his points with savvy instead of in your face athleticism. Just wish he would stop the 3 point shots unless he had his feet set an inch behind the line. Never understood these guys who shoot 3's 2 feet or more behind the line. You get the same 3 points if your foot is just behind the line.

Some validity in your point, and some big holes. The validity is that the object in basketball was always to get the easiest shot possible - until the dawn of the three point shot. I remember once reading an opponent describe Oscar Robertson, by any measure one of the greatest players ever, and way ahead of his time. The opponent said that the Big O was so big (6'5" at the time was big for a guard), quick, and strong. If you gave him a 20 foot jumper, he'd work for 16. If you gave him 16, he wanted 12. If you gave him twelve he wanted 8, and if you gave him 8, he wanted a layup. The three point shot destroys that, with guys actually stepping backwards to shoot behind the arc.

The hole in your thinking, is that the college three point shot is ONLY 20'6". 8th grade girls can make a 3 from that distance, so a college player can easily shoot from 22-23 feet with ease. I take exception to these shots 4-6 feet behind the arc, but not a couple of feet.

Years ago, I was at the Garden watching Louisville playing St. John's. In warmups, every Louisville player is lined up with their feet an inch behind the line, taking jump shots. SJU players are scattered everywhere. For a marginal shooting team like SJU, every inch matters. Imagine if the line was two feet back from where it is now. What do you think the team shoots then from 3? The same? No chance.

You may recall this then. When the 3 point shot was introduced to college basketball, Rick Pitino walked into the gym, and started taking shots from 20 feet (it was 19'9" originally). HE was making shot after shot, and he said "This is way too easy to give three points. This is what we are going to do this season." Pitino loves the college three, and no doubt he looks for shooters who can knock down threes consistently, which is reflected in the current Louisville team. Now I don't think its fair to compare SJU to the reigning NCAA champs, and Pitino is one of these guys who is very, very good at getting the kids he wants.

 

[ras]

Nice to simply get back in the win column today. However you get them, wins feel good and these guys deserved it. I'm sure this stretch hasn't been easy on them.

I was particularly impressed with D'angelo's midrange game last night. He made some unbelievably tough shots!

D Lo is such an old school player. He gets his points with savvy instead of in your face athleticism. Just wish he would stop the 3 point shots unless he had his feet set an inch behind the line. Never understood these guys who shoot 3's 2 feet or more behind the line. You get the same 3 points if your foot is just behind the line.

Some validity in your point, and some big holes. The validity is that the object in basketball was always to get the easiest shot possible - until the dawn of the three point shot. I remember once reading an opponent describe Oscar Robertson, by any measure one of the greatest players ever, and way ahead of his time. The opponent said that the Big O was so big (6'5" at the time was big for a guard), quick, and strong. If you gave him a 20 foot jumper, he'd work for 16. If you gave him 16, he wanted 12. If you gave him twelve he wanted 8, and if you gave him 8, he wanted a layup. The three point shot destroys that, with guys actually stepping backwards to shoot behind the arc.

The hole in your thinking, is that the college three point shot is ONLY 20'6". 8th grade girls can make a 3 from that distance, so a college player can easily shoot from 22-23 feet with ease. I take exception to these shots 4-6 feet behind the arc, but not a couple of feet.

8th grade girls may be able to make the3 from that distance, but we can't. DLO was 0 for 4.

 

[1and1sju]

Nice to simply get back in the win column today. However you get them, wins feel good and these guys deserved it. I'm sure this stretch hasn't been easy on them.

I was particularly impressed with D'angelo's midrange game last night. He made some unbelievably tough shots!

D Lo is such an old school player. He gets his points with savvy instead of in your face athleticism. Just wish he would stop the 3 point shots unless he had his feet set an inch behind the line. Never understood these guys who shoot 3's 2 feet or more behind the line. You get the same 3 points if your foot is just behind the line.

Some validity in your point, and some big holes. The validity is that the object in basketball was always to get the easiest shot possible - until the dawn of the three point shot. I remember once reading an opponent describe Oscar Robertson, by any measure one of the greatest players ever, and way ahead of his time. The opponent said that the Big O was so big (6'5" at the time was big for a guard), quick, and strong. If you gave him a 20 foot jumper, he'd work for 16. If you gave him 16, he wanted 12. If you gave him twelve he wanted 8, and if you gave him 8, he wanted a layup. The three point shot destroys that, with guys actually stepping backwards to shoot behind the arc.

The hole in your thinking, is that the college three point shot is ONLY 20'6". 8th grade girls can make a 3 from that distance, so a college player can easily shoot from 22-23 feet with ease. I take exception to these shots 4-6 feet behind the arc, but not a couple of feet.

Years ago, I was at the Garden watching Louisville playing St. John's. In warmups, every Louisville player is lined up with their feet an inch behind the line, taking jump shots. SJU players are scattered everywhere. For a marginal shooting team like SJU, every inch matters. Imagine if the line was two feet back from where it is now. What do you think the team shoots then from 3? The same? No chance.

You may recall this then. When the 3 point shot was introduced to college basketball, Rick Pitino walked into the gym, and started taking shots from 20 feet (it was 19'9" originally). HE was making shot after shot, and he said "This is way too easy to give three points. This is what we are going to do this season." Pitino loves the college three, and no doubt he looks for shooters who can knock down threes consistently, which is reflected in the current Louisville team. Now I don't think its fair to compare SJU to the reigning NCAA champs, and Pitino is one of these guys who is very, very good at getting the kids he wants.

Did you see the highlights of that kid from Creighton the other night against Nova? He was draining them from 35ft away like it was nothing.