Season Goals

[Class of 72]

Back in 6th after tonight. Keep fighting for that first round bye

I'm not as concerned. The flip side is that with a 7th place finish we likely play a more winnable 1st round game. Winning ANY BET game would be a great achievement in their path to respectability. My preseason goal was 12-18 overall and it appears we will hit that or better which at this point has made this a good season. Throw in the fact that right now this is Mullin's team with him firmly in control and it's reason to be satisfied

My preseason goal was an optimistic 18 wins. I espected both Sima and Yakwe to be better than last season. That has been the difference in record for the most part. Coming out not ready to play defense was another factor along with taking longer to blend in the new faces. Had things gone as expected this team should have had 4 more wins and been on the road to 16 to 18 wins, including the Big East tourney. A 12 wins "preseason" goal would have been very pessimistic but after the Sima defection and Yakwe's slow improvement, it is obviously the most recent outcome.

 

[Sherman Sheridan & Grant]

RMN BOE S'voo SR TXR K Mr. P
Did I leave anyone out???
I like all of your respective posts

I'm a relatively optimistic guy
But my heart is telling me that I am already satisfied w the season & progress as is!
LIU & Del St notwithstanding
If we do not win another game (of course we likely will)
We have grown so much, are much more competitive and have added 'so many' more wins from a mere BE 1...last year is - fortunately - so far away ("doesn't anybody stay in one place anymore" Brooklyn's Carole King - Beautiful = great Broadway show BTW)

All the best
Off to Aruba
Wow go Redmen!!!

 

[boo haarvey]

Really the only difference between cautious optimism(where most of us are at now) and being complete ecstatic about the season are those 2 losses to LIU and Delaware St. Those types of games are not uncommon for young teams to have to deal with and I don't envision it happening again next year. Could see 3-5 more wins out of this season which would be a huge improvement from where we were in the fall.

Yes it's a shame that we didn't win 2 or 3 of the 5 or 6 very winnable games early in the year. Prob the difference between an NIT bid and no post-season.

OTOH the fact that the team has gone from those debacles (throw in getting blown out at Xavier and at Georgetown) to winning road games at DePaul and Providence, playing Nova and Xavier tough at the Garden, and collecting a nice win over Marquette just shows you the progress that has been made. Good job by the staff, and I am sure at the end of the year and next year they will use those early losses as a teaching tool.

I am very encouraged about the direction of the program for the first time in probably 15 years.

You were not encouraged about the direction of the program when we made the tournament Lavin's first year and we had signed a top ten class?

 

[paultzman]

Might be healthy for some folks to go re-read the first few pages of this thread. You can't get too low after losses (especially close ones), and I wouldn't get too high after a good win, either. It's all about the process, which is headed in the right direction IMO.

Just gotta keep it going and add some pieces (perhaps easier said than done, but let's be optimistic about it) and SJU could very well be on the road to relevance again.

Keeping key guys on roster is critical. Being competitive & winning a few down the stretch will positively impact recruiting and hopefully be a catalyst to motivate our BE level core to see wisdom & opportunity to make a little noise next season.

 

[beast of the east]

Back in 6th after tonight. Keep fighting for that first round bye

I'm not as concerned. The flip side is that with a 7th place finish we likely play a more winnable 1st round game. Winning ANY BET game would be a great achievement in their path to respectability. My preseason goal was 12-18 overall and it appears we will hit that or better which at this point has made this a good season. Throw in the fact that right now this is Mullin's team with him firmly in control and it's reason to be satisfied

My preseason goal was an optimistic 18 wins. I espected both Sima and Yakwe to be better than last season. That has been the difference in record for the most part. Coming out not ready to play defense was another factor along with taking longer to blend in the new faces. Had things gone as expected this team should have had 4 more wins and been on the road to 16 to 18 wins, including the Big East tourney. A 12 wins "preseason" goal would have been very pessimistic but after the Sima defection and Yakwe's slow improvement, it is obviously the most recent outcome.

pessimistic and lifetime SJU fan is redundant.
12 wins was a low water mark for me. Anything below that was unacceptable. Anything above gravy in a rebuild year. To come from last season to 18 wins to me was too high a reach.

 

[beast of the east]

Back in 6th after tonight. Keep fighting for that first round bye

I'm not as concerned. The flip side is that with a 7th place finish we likely play a more winnable 1st round game. Winning ANY BET game would be a great achievement in their path to respectability. My preseason goal was 12-18 overall and it appears we will hit that or better which at this point has made this a good season. Throw in the fact that right now this is Mullin's team with him firmly in control and it's reason to be satisfied

agree to disagree then. I think we'd look more respectable if we don't have to play the first night. Plus, as someone else said, i don't care if its impossible, the goal should always be a BET championship. One less game increases those chances just a little bit more

Not strong disagreement Jack. Love your enthusiasm, and in the student section you should be focused like that. Wait till you sit with the old guys, and become one yourself.

 

[paultzman]

Back in 6th after tonight. Keep fighting for that first round bye

I'm not as concerned. The flip side is that with a 7th place finish we likely play a more winnable 1st round game. Winning ANY BET game would be a great achievement in their path to respectability. My preseason goal was 12-18 overall and it appears we will hit that or better which at this point has made this a good season. Throw in the fact that right now this is Mullin's team with him firmly in control and it's reason to be satisfied

My preseason goal was an optimistic 18 wins. I espected both Sima and Yakwe to be better than last season. That has been the difference in record for the most part. Coming out not ready to play defense was another factor along with taking longer to blend in the new faces. Had things gone as expected this team should have had 4 more wins and been on the road to 16 to 18 wins, including the Big East tourney. A 12 wins "preseason" goal would have been very pessimistic but after the Sima defection and Yakwe's slow improvement, it is obviously the most recent outcome.

pessimistic and lifetime SJU fan is redundant.
12 wins was a low water mark for me. Anything below that was unacceptable. Anything above gravy in a rebuild year. To come from last season to 18 wins to me was too high a reach.

Had 15 win projection, but admittedly not the manner in which this is unfolding. I saw better preseason & a real struggle in BE. Happy to be surprised thus far. Finish season strong and a nice table setter for next season.

 

[cappy105]

Beat Nova!! they are gonna be ready for us. Jay Wright talked about how bad they played vs us for a week!

 

[kranmars]

Really the only difference between cautious optimism(where most of us are at now) and being complete ecstatic about the season are those 2 losses to LIU and Delaware St. Those types of games are not uncommon for young teams to have to deal with and I don't envision it happening again next year. Could see 3-5 more wins out of this season which would be a huge improvement from where we were in the fall.

Yes it's a shame that we didn't win 2 or 3 of the 5 or 6 very winnable games early in the year. Prob the difference between an NIT bid and no post-season.

OTOH the fact that the team has gone from those debacles (throw in getting blown out at Xavier and at Georgetown) to winning road games at DePaul and Providence, playing Nova and Xavier tough at the Garden, and collecting a nice win over Marquette just shows you the progress that has been made. Good job by the staff, and I am sure at the end of the year and next year they will use those early losses as a teaching tool.

I am very encouraged about the direction of the program for the first time in probably 15 years.

You were not encouraged about the direction of the program when we made the tournament Lavin's first year and we had signed a top ten class?

Can. Worms. Open.

 

[frank]

Play 500 and make the NIT

 

[redken]

Back in 6th after tonight. Keep fighting for that first round bye

I'm not as concerned. The flip side is that with a 7th place finish we likely play a more winnable 1st round game. Winning ANY BET game would be a great achievement in their path to respectability. My preseason goal was 12-18 overall and it appears we will hit that or better which at this point has made this a good season. Throw in the fact that right now this is Mullin's team with him firmly in control and it's reason to be satisfied

agree to disagree then. I think we'd look more respectable if we don't have to play the first night. Plus, as someone else said, i don't care if its impossible, the goal should always be a BET championship. One less game increases those chances just a little bit more

No offense, but the BET is irrelevant for us this year except to the extent it allows the players to get a taste of tournament play. It might actually be better for them to play the first night because that improves the chances that they get to play 2 games. And the more games they play, the better off they are.

This is not a one-year project.

Season will be a disappointment for me if we don't win at least one game in the BE tournament. Tired of losing those opening round games.

 

[McGarry2]

Would appear NCAA & NIT are off the table. Should SJU entertain playing if one of those other tournaments ?

 

[TX Redman]

Last year 1-17 in the BE and 8-24 overall.
So far this year 5-6 in the BE and 11-13 overall. Let that sink in.

I think we win 3 and lose 4 of the remaining 7, leaving us at 8-10 in the BE. I realize the only way was up after last year but if we get 8 BE wins, that is a remarkable improvement / achievement in one of the toughest conferences in D1.

I am impressed by how Mullin is adjusting, improving and molding this young team. We can only hope that we can keep the dynamic backcourt intact for a few more years. They are so much fun to watch.

And if we have to drag John "you cannot be serious" McEnroe to a few more games to ensure a win, then so be it. Maybe the crowd was light at MSG last night but it sure looked like it was buzzing on TV.

 

[SJU1512]

Want to win as many games as possible, but assuming 2-3 more regular season wins is probably most realistic would prefer to play night 1 and have a winnable game (ideally as 7 seed v. DePaul). Don't see much difference in the 2/7 or 3/6 game in the quarters, would rather have a chance at night 1 win and to generate some additional momentum (generally and heading in tho the quarters game). Tough to beat any team 3x in a season but think this is a good scenario for us.

Had us at 16 before the season, thought that would be a great outcome, incredible that we may get within even a few wins of that given how OOC unfolded. Impressive job from players and staff.

 

[lawmanfan]

Really the only difference between cautious optimism(where most of us are at now) and being complete ecstatic about the season are those 2 losses to LIU and Delaware St. Those types of games are not uncommon for young teams to have to deal with and I don't envision it happening again next year. Could see 3-5 more wins out of this season which would be a huge improvement from where we were in the fall.

Yes it's a shame that we didn't win 2 or 3 of the 5 or 6 very winnable games early in the year. Prob the difference between an NIT bid and no post-season.

OTOH the fact that the team has gone from those debacles (throw in getting blown out at Xavier and at Georgetown) to winning road games at DePaul and Providence, playing Nova and Xavier tough at the Garden, and collecting a nice win over Marquette just shows you the progress that has been made. Good job by the staff, and I am sure at the end of the year and next year they will use those early losses as a teaching tool.

I am very encouraged about the direction of the program for the first time in probably 15 years.

You were not encouraged about the direction of the program when we made the tournament Lavin's first year and we had signed a top ten class?

I think it is well known that I wanted no part of Lavin and had no enthusiasm about him either before, during or after his tenure.

I believe that the current staff has a plan. There is no guarantee they will be able to execute it. But it has been thought through, it is being implemented step by step, and they are willing to take their lumps in the short term to profit in the long run. If (again IF) they can carry it all the way through then there is a foundation being laid for long term, sustained success.

The only plan Lavin ever had was to try to smooth talk players with athletic upside but many questions into coming to St John's, hoping like hell they panned out for at least a year or two, and then selling that as progress and a plan. It wasn't a plan, ever. It was just sales. Plus it was mostly bad basketball.

 

[weathermannyc]

Really the only difference between cautious optimism(where most of us are at now) and being complete ecstatic about the season are those 2 losses to LIU and Delaware St. Those types of games are not uncommon for young teams to have to deal with and I don't envision it happening again next year. Could see 3-5 more wins out of this season which would be a huge improvement from where we were in the fall.

Yes it's a shame that we didn't win 2 or 3 of the 5 or 6 very winnable games early in the year. Prob the difference between an NIT bid and no post-season.

OTOH the fact that the team has gone from those debacles (throw in getting blown out at Xavier and at Georgetown) to winning road games at DePaul and Providence, playing Nova and Xavier tough at the Garden, and collecting a nice win over Marquette just shows you the progress that has been made. Good job by the staff, and I am sure at the end of the year and next year they will use those early losses as a teaching tool.

I am very encouraged about the direction of the program for the first time in probably 15 years.

You were not encouraged about the direction of the program when we made the tournament Lavin's first year and we had signed a top ten class?

I think it is well known that I wanted no part of Lavin and had no enthusiasm about him either before, during or after his tenure.

I believe that the current staff has a plan. There is no guarantee they will be able to execute it. But it has been thought through, it is being implemented step by step, and they are willing to take their lumps in the short term to profit in the long run. If (again IF) they can carry it all the way through then there is a foundation being laid for long term, sustained success.

The only plan Lavin ever had was to try to smooth talk players with athletic upside but many questions into coming to St John's, hoping like hell they panned out for at least a year or two, and then selling that as progress and a plan. It wasn't a plan, ever. It was just sales. Plus it was mostly bad basketball.

It's easy to say this now, but did you really think this during February and March of 2011? If yes, then what made you think it at that time?

 

[boo haarvey]

Really the only difference between cautious optimism(where most of us are at now) and being complete ecstatic about the season are those 2 losses to LIU and Delaware St. Those types of games are not uncommon for young teams to have to deal with and I don't envision it happening again next year. Could see 3-5 more wins out of this season which would be a huge improvement from where we were in the fall.

Yes it's a shame that we didn't win 2 or 3 of the 5 or 6 very winnable games early in the year. Prob the difference between an NIT bid and no post-season.

OTOH the fact that the team has gone from those debacles (throw in getting blown out at Xavier and at Georgetown) to winning road games at DePaul and Providence, playing Nova and Xavier tough at the Garden, and collecting a nice win over Marquette just shows you the progress that has been made. Good job by the staff, and I am sure at the end of the year and next year they will use those early losses as a teaching tool.

I am very encouraged about the direction of the program for the first time in probably 15 years.

You were not encouraged about the direction of the program when we made the tournament Lavin's first year and we had signed a top ten class?

I think it is well known that I wanted no part of Lavin and had no enthusiasm about him either before, during or after his tenure.

I believe that the current staff has a plan. There is no guarantee they will be able to execute it. But it has been thought through, it is being implemented step by step, and they are willing to take their lumps in the short term to profit in the long run. If (again IF) they can carry it all the way through then there is a foundation being laid for long term, sustained success.

The only plan Lavin ever had was to try to smooth talk players with athletic upside but many questions into coming to St John's, hoping like hell they panned out for at least a year or two, and then selling that as progress and a plan. It wasn't a plan, ever. It was just sales. Plus it was mostly bad basketball.

It's easy to say this now, but did you really think this during February and March of 2011? If yes, then what made you think it at that time?

It wasn't my intention to hijack this thread and renew the Lavin debate. I understand there are differences of opinions and can see the merit in both sides. But I agree that in 2011, there was significant reason for optimism. It may be that that our optimism was not borne out, but hindsight is 20-20.

 

[GardenCity62]

It is tough for players and coaches to go through a season like last but the won lost record is secondary to the players improvement. For the past few weeks the coaches have settled on a smaller rotation and the team personnel appear to be able to compete on the big east level.
If the rebounding improves next year and Ponds and LoVett are still here to take outlet passes the opposition will have to leave a defender at half court to stop the fast break.

 

[beast of the east]

Really the only difference between cautious optimism(where most of us are at now) and being complete ecstatic about the season are those 2 losses to LIU and Delaware St. Those types of games are not uncommon for young teams to have to deal with and I don't envision it happening again next year. Could see 3-5 more wins out of this season which would be a huge improvement from where we were in the fall.

Yes it's a shame that we didn't win 2 or 3 of the 5 or 6 very winnable games early in the year. Prob the difference between an NIT bid and no post-season.

OTOH the fact that the team has gone from those debacles (throw in getting blown out at Xavier and at Georgetown) to winning road games at DePaul and Providence, playing Nova and Xavier tough at the Garden, and collecting a nice win over Marquette just shows you the progress that has been made. Good job by the staff, and I am sure at the end of the year and next year they will use those early losses as a teaching tool.

I am very encouraged about the direction of the program for the first time in probably 15 years.

You were not encouraged about the direction of the program when we made the tournament Lavin's first year and we had signed a top ten class?

I think it is well known that I wanted no part of Lavin and had no enthusiasm about him either before, during or after his tenure.

I believe that the current staff has a plan. There is no guarantee they will be able to execute it. But it has been thought through, it is being implemented step by step, and they are willing to take their lumps in the short term to profit in the long run. If (again IF) they can carry it all the way through then there is a foundation being laid for long term, sustained success.

The only plan Lavin ever had was to try to smooth talk players with athletic upside but many questions into coming to St John's, hoping like hell they panned out for at least a year or two, and then selling that as progress and a plan. It wasn't a plan, ever. It was just sales. Plus it was mostly bad basketball.

It's easy to say this now, but did you really think this during February and March of 2011? If yes, then what made you think it at that time?

By 1950 I'm sure nearly all Germans thought Hitler was a horrific leader and evil person, and not admit that in 1938, Germans were out en masse cheering for him as he spoke at public rallies. It's all a matter of how it all turned out.

 

[SJU61982]

It is tough for players and coaches to go through a season like last but the won lost record is secondary to the players improvement.

You got it right, Enright.

We'd all love to be able to waive a magic wand, and have all the frustrations of youth and inexperience just go away like that. In truth, unless you're a blue blood (Kentucky blue, that is), you're going to have to live with it. Still, the team is unquestionably getting better. The two star guards took awhile to adjust to playing together, but they seem to be getting it right. I also think it was a very positive step for the team to be able to withstand the runs that Marquette, and especially Providence, though at us.

Starting with the Nova game, the only time I was discouraged with out performance, was the first half at Seton Hall. Maybe parts of the Xavier game, too. Sometimes the guys seem to get a little too down on themselves, which still leads to some cold spells, but they never give up, and they are now starting to reap some of the rewards from that.

I still look at this somewhat like it's actually year 1 of the rebuild. Last year, we were so over matched re: physical talent, that I think it was the kind of year you just had to get through. Very little good could come of that. This year, I think you are at least seeing some of the system that Mullin wants to operate with, especially on offense.

Saturday night will probably not be very pretty, and I'll probably complain about how the game goes as much as anybody on here. Still, I can say for the first time since Mullin arrived, that even a blowout loss will not dampen my long-term confidence. They've shown me too much in recent weeks, to make me feel otherwise.