Scrimmage vs. Rhode Island

Jerry Carino
‏
@NJHoopsHaven

I see a lot of fan freakouts about scrimmage results. Your annual reminder: Coaches take varied approaches to these things. A lot of experimentation going on. The most interesting stat, to me: minutes played.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=298678][quote="Adam" post=298673]Hopefully people don't mistake this message for freaking out, but yes there should be at least some concern over the results. They shouldn't be 100% dismissed.

3 points:
#1: Rhode Island is ranked #108 in Kenpom's updated rankings. Not just a loss, but since they're 100+ it'd be a "bad loss" (yes, obviously I know this game counts for nothing).
#2: Heron had a poor shooting night (1/10), which a lot of people have pointed out. However, he would've had to hit at least 3-5 more shots for us to win (roughly 50%+) depending on offensive rebounds, etc. Obviously very doable, but it's not like we lost by 1. We lost by 6. Heron was not the only reason.
#3: Interior and 3 point defense were the primary concerns. Sound familiar? I can excuse a poor offensive showing, but defense is tougher to justify.

Again, this is not me pressing the panic button. The game obviously doesn't count for anything. Just saying it's naive to just completely dismiss the results. We should have won this game, no excuses.[/quote]

If this were a regular season game it would not be a bad loss. Rhode Island is picked to finish 5th in the 14 team A10.
Heron may not have lost us the scrimmage alone as Clark took half his shots from the 3 point line and as usual seemingly had no inside presence. Their guards outplayed our guards if one compares stats. That's not a good take away for a team touted to have one of the best backcourt tandems in college ball.
The bottom line is we will know if this scrimmage was meaningful after our first exhibition game.
I'm hoping we are better prepared by then and see our freshmen get some burn. Tyrese Martin, RI's 3 star freshman played around 30 minutes and had decent numbers. Our freshman did not. Again, preparation and mindset may be an issue and it is the coaches that get paid to teach those things.[/quote]

Well, KenPom has them projected #108 for next year. Based on their projection, it would be a "bad" loss. "Bad" is defined as 100+ as far as the NCAA is concerned (pretty sure it is one of the categories they look at).

That said, I actually don't think RI finishes #108 (should be better), and they'd be a borderline "bad" loss worst case scenario. Still, I'd trust KenPom's numbers more than my gut here.

I agree with the rest of you post, though.
 
[quote="Sju grad 13" post=298689][quote="L J S A" post=298684]Just figured I'd put this here to calm prematurely jittery nerves:

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/news/story?id=4620949[/quote]

I don’t know if that was a good article to post, but those Syracuse players sounded pissed off that they lost this game. Boeheim was just as mad it seems.[/quote]

True enough, but my overall point was that they ended up 30-5 that season anyway. Maybe we'll see our guys and coach angry about the loss. Some anger/fire might be nice, but it is at the end of the day still a scrimmage.

If we lose to one of our weak-ass OOC opponents, though, then we can complain. But of course if that happens we could refer back to SJU61982's post. I'm OK with someone being our Niagara if it means we make it to final four (but with a better outcome).
 
[quote="usguard" post=298643]we can not afford bad games even if it was a scrimmage[/quote]

Do you EVER have anything positive to say or is it always doom and gloom? If we went 31-0, you'd still find something to complain about. To paraphrase AI, "It's just a scrimmage."
 
It helps after a good night's sleep...only a scrimmage. Let's wait until the first few games to see where we're at. I think fans who are concerned after the scrimmage aren't really concerned with the result itself. They're concerned about having seen this movie before and the introduction is starting to look eerily similar to years past. That's all...we are all hoping we beat the brakes off of most of our OOC and we are back to being confident. This was a good wakeup call for the team that just because we have very talented players individually doesn't automatically equal a win even against mediocre teams. Once again though, no excuses once the games count...this is a top 25 team according to ESPN and most top 25 teams will rock the cupcakes.
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=298695]It helps after a good night's sleep...only a scrimmage. Let's wait until the first few games to see where we're at. I think fans who are concerned after the scrimmage aren't really concerned with the result itself. They're concerned about having seen this movie before and the introduction is starting to look eerily similar to years past. That's all...we are all hoping we beat the brakes off of most of our OOC and we are back to being confident. This was a good wakeup call for the team that just because we have very talented players individually doesn't automatically equal a win even against mediocre teams. Once again though, no excuses once the games count...this is a top 25 team according to ESPN and most top 25 teams will rock the cupcakes.[/quote]
Mike Zaun account has been hacked
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Yes I never like to see a loss in any circumstances, but has anyone here ever played a scrimmage? The thing is like a glorified practice. We always knew with the number of new players on the team this year it might take some time to gel. Now if we end up losing exhibition games I'd be a bit concerned.
 
Posted a blurb in Around Big East thread on Nova v NC scrimmage. It details the flexibility of most scrimmages.
 
Not concerned about final score in scrimmage. Hopefully the team and staff very much are and if so it's a valuable exercise to get that out of the way in a game that doesn't count.

In fairness Mullin's squad came out of the gate prepared and focused last season. 10-2 going into conference play, largely destroyed lesser teams, and were very competitive in the 2 losses to tournament teams. They'll need similar effort from the start this year and possibly then some.

But not like slow starts have been a chronic problem under this staff where maybe this is more of a concern. Even 2 years ago with a very young team was a very representative start against an absurdly difficult schedule until they seemed to start to wear down and had some letdowns. Not a lot of wins but they competed and were in games against major competition in difficult environments.

That said it's an incredibly improved roster but it's also a roster that needed incredible improvement in order to take the jump we are hoping they take. Going from losing 11 consecutive games to start conference play and finishing tied for last with DePaul at 4-14 to the top of the conference with expectations of NCAA and possible winning game(s) is a big order no matter what the circumstances were last year.

The margin for error to do so will be razor thin and there's really no time for a transition period to blend new guys in or learn any big lessons once the season starts. Not this year, not with this schedule. Don't really have the luxury of whatever occurred Saturday happening against Rutgers, and the justifications that completely apply to Saturday won't at all there or certainly in lesser games. So hopefully there were some good takeaways and this one gets put in the rearview and we don't see almost 60% from opposing 3 again all season, which has been a chronic problem under this staff :)
 
Last edited:
Like I said earlier I am not too concerned about a scrimmage and in fairness to Rhode Island I have no idea what type of team they are. Kenpom doesn’t mean much without data from games.

I have to agree that we have to be on top of our game for at Rutgers on a Friday night. They will be and you don’t want to lose to Rutgers who will likely lose to most of the Big 10.
 
[quote="SJU1512" post=298704]Not concerned about final score in scrimmage. Hopefully the team and staff very much are and if so it's a valuable exercise to get that out of the way in a game that doesn't count.

In fairness Mullin's squad came out of the gate prepared and focused last season. 10-2 going into conference play, largely destroyed lesser teams, and were very competitive in the 2 losses to tournament teams. They'll need similar effort from the start this year and possibly then some.

But not like slow starts have been a chronic problem under this staff where maybe this is more of a concern. Even 2 years ago with a very young team was a very representative start against an absurdly difficult schedule until they seemed to start to wear down and had some letdowns. Not a lot of wins but they competed and were in games against major competition in difficult environments.

That said it's an incredibly improved roster but it's also a roster that needed incredible improvement in order to take the jump we are hoping they take. Going from losing 11 consecutive games to start conference play and finishing tied for last with DePaul at 4-14 to the top of the conference with expectations of NCAA and possible winning game(s) is a big order no matter what the circumstances were last year.

The margin for error to do so will be razor thin and there's really no time for a transition period to blend new guys in or learn any big lessons once the season starts. Not this year, not with this schedule. Don't really have the luxury of whatever occurred Saturday happening against Rutgers, and the justifications that completely apply to Saturday won't at all there or certainly in lesser games. So hopefully there were some good takeaways and this one gets put in the rearview and we don't see almost 60% from opposing 3 again all season, which has been a chronic problem under this staff :)[/quote]

Agree that overall we got off to a pretty good start last year until the LoVett saga. However, we had a real issue with getting off to slow/poor starts in the 1st half. If I remember correctly, many teams no matter how terrible were within striking distance at half. Several stuck around even late into the 2nd half until we made a late run to finally put them away. I hope that this year the talent difference between us and cupcakes is more obvious and we can let up early enough to give our guys a rest and prevent injuries. I expect very tight games from Cal, GT, Temple, VCU (maybe), and Rutgers. Outside of them, we should be throttling the 300 ish ranked teams. If we don't I will be quite concerned. I know it's college hoops and any team can shoot 70% from 3 one day and become unstoppable suddenly, but I do expect more easier to watch games with comfortable leads. We have top 25 talent...ESPN has us ranked. If that does not look obvious on the court against much worse teams, that's 100% on coaches. Can't keep having the same excuses every year with needing time to blend. Our core of Clark, Simon, Ponds have been here a while.
 
Yeah, I would have preferred that our beloved St. John’s had scored more points than Rhode Island but what is seemingly being lost is that Rhody is a veteran group that has largely played together in the last 2 NCAA tourneys and is projected to be a NCAA “bubble” team this season.

The fact is that the Rhody schrimage was the first time that the St. John’s nucleus has played together in a game situation. Experience counts.

Below is a write up regarding the University of Rhode Island men’s team this coming season.
———————

Rhode Island: The Rams could make three straight NCAA tournaments. But that means Fatts Russell has to be ready to handle being much more of a headline player. Jeff Dowtin and Cyril Langevine should be ready to emerge first-rate all-league players. Russell, though, could be a difference maker. He has the ability to take this team higher in the standings by being the lead guard who can’t be contained. His energy is contagious. First-year coach David Cox is moving one seat over and is well aware of the tradition of excellence that was created under Dan Hurley.

Postseason prediction: NCAA bubble.

[URL][URL]https://www.google.com/am...-basketball-10-predictions-2018-19-season?amp[/URL][/URL]
 
Last edited:
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=298710][quote="SJU1512" post=298704]Not concerned about final score in scrimmage. Hopefully the team and staff very much are and if so it's a valuable exercise to get that out of the way in a game that doesn't count.

In fairness Mullin's squad came out of the gate prepared and focused last season. 10-2 going into conference play, largely destroyed lesser teams, and were very competitive in the 2 losses to tournament teams. They'll need similar effort from the start this year and possibly then some.

But not like slow starts have been a chronic problem under this staff where maybe this is more of a concern. Even 2 years ago with a very young team was a very representative start against an absurdly difficult schedule until they seemed to start to wear down and had some letdowns. Not a lot of wins but they competed and were in games against major competition in difficult environments.

That said it's an incredibly improved roster but it's also a roster that needed incredible improvement in order to take the jump we are hoping they take. Going from losing 11 consecutive games to start conference play and finishing tied for last with DePaul at 4-14 to the top of the conference with expectations of NCAA and possible winning game(s) is a big order no matter what the circumstances were last year.

The margin for error to do so will be razor thin and there's really no time for a transition period to blend new guys in or learn any big lessons once the season starts. Not this year, not with this schedule. Don't really have the luxury of whatever occurred Saturday happening against Rutgers, and the justifications that completely apply to Saturday won't at all there or certainly in lesser games. So hopefully there were some good takeaways and this one gets put in the rearview and we don't see almost 60% from opposing 3 again all season, which has been a chronic problem under this staff :)[/quote]

Agree that overall we got off to a pretty good start last year until the LoVett saga. However, we had a real issue with getting off to slow/poor starts in the 1st half. If I remember correctly, many teams no matter how terrible were within striking distance at half. Several stuck around even late into the 2nd half until we made a late run to finally put them away. I hope that this year the talent difference between us and cupcakes is more obvious and we can let up early enough to give our guys a rest and prevent injuries. I expect very tight games from Cal, GT, Temple, VCU (maybe), and Rutgers. Outside of them, we should be throttling the 300 ish ranked teams. If we don't I will be quite concerned. I know it's college hoops and any team can shoot 70% from 3 one day and become unstoppable suddenly, but I do expect more easier to watch games with comfortable leads. We have top 25 talent...ESPN has us ranked. If that does not look obvious on the court against much worse teams, that's 100% on coaches. Can't keep having the same excuses every year with needing time to blend. Our core of Clark, Simon, Ponds have been here a while.[/quote]

Just so we're clear, how many points do you have to win by for it to be considered a "throttling"?
 
That a scrimmage can give rise to such anxiety reflects, more than anything else, I long-starved fan base. Hang in there everyone, let’s give ourselves a chance to enjoy this very promising season — including before it even starts!!
 
[quote="Andrew" post=298707]Like I said earlier I am not too concerned about a scrimmage and in fairness to Rhode Island I have no idea what type of team they are. Kenpom doesn’t mean much without data from games.

I have to agree that we have to be on top of our game for at Rutgers on a Friday night. They will be and you don’t want to lose to Rutgers who will likely lose to most of the Big 10.[/quote]

The Rutgers game scares me. Anytime you have to play a power conference team in their building, you can expect that team to be pumped up.

It will also be interesting to see what the fans are like for that game. At first, I thought there wouldn't be many, since Penn State comes in for football at noon the next day. However, considering the fact that most Rutgers fans have deserted the football team this year, maybe they look at this as the big event, and make a lot of noise.
 
I would never assume beating anyone on BE & OOC schedules, net of the very low ranked non conference teams we face. Obviously the pieces are there, but they have to bring it every night.
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=298726]I would never assume beating anyone on BE & OOC schedules, net of the very low ranked non conference teams we face. Obviously the pieces are there, but they have to bring it every night.[/quote]

Coaches need to bring it too. No more honeymoon.

"Now go out there and take it"

-Herb Brooks
 
[quote="otis" post=298713]Yeah, I would have preferred that our beloved St. John’s had scored more points than Rhode Island but what is seemingly being lost is that Rhody is a veteran group that has largely played together in the last 2 NCAA tourneys and is projected to be a NCAA “bubble” team this season.

The fact is that the Rhody schrimage was the first time that the St. John’s nucleus has played together in a game situation. Experience counts.

Below is a write up regarding the University of Rhode Island men’s team this coming season.
———————

Rhode Island: The Rams could make three straight NCAA tournaments. But that means Fatts Russell has to be ready to handle being much more of a headline player. Jeff Dowtin and Cyril Langevine should be ready to emerge first-rate all-league players. Russell, though, could be a difference maker. He has the ability to take this team higher in the standings by being the lead guard who can’t be contained. His energy is contagious. First-year coach David Cox is moving one seat over and is well aware of the tradition of excellence that was created under Dan Hurley.

Postseason prediction: NCAA bubble.

[URL][URL]https://www.google.com/am...-basketball-10-predictions-2018-19-season?amp[/URL][/URL][/quote]

I respect your opinion OTIS as a fellow long suffering fan. Yes, Rhode Island has both some talent and experience but we have just as much in that Ponds, Simon and Clark are as good, if not better, than anyone they have. Also, Keita and Dixon practiced with the team all all year. Same goes for Trimble.
The concern of fans I have corresponded with is that RI has a first year head coach and that RI played two unhealded freshmen, Tyrese and Oliviera, a total of 42 minutes combined.
I think Rhode Island took the scrimmage much more seriously and so should have Mullin and our players.
If we lose to Rutgers Mullin's seat will begin to sizzle on this Fan Forum.
I'm resigned to the fact that it will be what it will be and because of AD Cragg there will be life after Mullin if he falters and doesn't deliver recruiting results. Had we hired a yes man to Mullin I likely would become ambivalent with the team but I feel positive now whether Mully stays or leaves.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top