Roster

[quote="Logen" post=359100][quote="MCNPA" post=359096][quote="Logen" post=359095][quote="MCNPA" post=359073][quote="Logen" post=359071][quote="MCNPA" post=359039]I don’t think it’s classless, it’s just speculation. Speculating doesn’t make something true. The scholarships are going to come from somewhere and I’ve seen some of the guys we have off the bench from last season and I’m wondering where they’ll all fit in. The fans can’t pack anybody’s bags, but denying there are talent gaps is disingenuous.[/quote]

I have close friends whose very livelihood depends primarily on their ability to evaluate players. So it is not rare they scout them for years, see them play in tens of games, break down tapes of those games and they still get it wrong. All the baseball expert “evaluators of talent” swore the Mets farm system was barren, yet they had one young player lead the league in hitting for a portion of the year and another smash team and league records galore.
But you and others think you can look at players for a couple of minutes in mop up time and evaluate them. You are wasting a very rare and potentially lucrative talent posting such infallible insight on a forum. As for speculation on a general talent gap, that is one thing; to name names based on nothing but that speculation is quite another. IMO, that is classless. You think otherwise, you are entitled. We just disagree.[/quote]

The only names I mentioned played for SJU last season. In limited time they didn’t show much in the way of becoming players that are going to have impact anywhere near the likes of Figueroa, Heron etc. We are also offering more scholarships right now than it seems we have available so you do the math. It’s not gonna be Posh or one of the new guys leaving. I could also be wrong but have been going to recruiting events for decades and of course I’m plenty wrong too. Doesn’t mean we can’t have opinions. This is a message board, and fans speculating about playing time etc. or ability is not “classless”. I take offense to that because it is likely directed at me and we can agree to disagree but I think you’re using the term just to be insulting and get personal.[/quote]

Sorry you feel that way but my comments are directed at anyone who chooses to name names as candidates. Take it however you want, I don’t care. I am outspoken and upfront, anyone on this board for any length of time knows that. So your “speculations” regarding players and naming them is ok, but my opinion on that practice is insulting because you feel it is directed at you? How do you think they and theirs might feel about your opinions? But that’s ok, right? I guess their feelings don’t count but yours do..........[/quote]

I didn’t call anybody classless. You did. I’m just talking basketball, not attacking anybody’s character.[/quote]

Neither did I, my original post regarding this referred to “this site” not any individual. You chose to reply. If you think speculating on players on the team you root for leaving because you feel they are not good enough to stay, fine, you are entitled. But I think it is classless mainly for the reason I cited; I wonder how you would feel, if say, you were one of the players “speculated” on and your 10 year old brother who worships the ground you walk on asked why people were posting you might not be on the team anymore?
This is my last post on the subject, we disagree.[/quote]

The bottom line is that we , and I say we , are a huge bunch of hypocrites. When Earlington was signed there were comparisons with Anthony Glover, when Spears signed there were comparisons with Billy Singleton and when McGriff signed there were Mo Brown and Andre Barrrett comparisons and we were thrilled we had a pg for this season , any pg , to replace Cam who at Nebraska. Now we hear the staff is not finished recruiting for 2020 as they have filled their 4 allotted ships and the board is speculating about who will be gone, which is not too hard to figure out who the potential candidates are, and how they are not BE caliber talent. When truth be told 2 have yet to step on the floor and 1 barely played last season.
Logen calls it classless which it is and to that I add it is bloody hypocritical on our part.
 
Some of you guys need to seriously look up the definition of classless.

Classless would be bashing the the player, saying he sucks, attacking his character, bringing up personal issues etc.

Saying a player may be a transfer candidate on a team that's over the scholarship limit because he may not fit in a new system (that he was not recruited for) or because he didn't play much last year is just being observant, there's nothing malicious or ill willed in that.

I sure hope some of you guys don't follow the NBA, trade rumors would have you guys at people's throat.
 
Making Plays wrote: Some of you guys need to seriously look up the definition of classless.

Classless would be bashing the the player, saying he sucks, attacking his character, bringing up personal issues etc.

Saying a player may be a transfer candidate on a team that's over the scholarship limit because he may not fit in a new system (that he was not recruited for) or because he didn't play much last year is just being observant, there's nothing malicious or ill willed in that.

I sure hope some of you guys don't follow the NBA, trade rumors would have you guys at people's throat.

Have to respectfully disagree with you MP for a few reasons. One this isn't the NBA, these kids are not getting paid for their efforts and they are still kids; two, they were either recruited here directly by MA or were re-recruited by MA just a short time ago and were part of the plan then; three, I don't agree that kids don't pay any attention to what's posted here, we saw evidence last year that Simon, Trimble & Ponds were all aware of some of the criticism they received on the site.
It is way too early to say who will stay and who may go over the next year. For all of these reasons, I question the need to speculate who might decide to transfer down the line. That being said, I don't disagree for a minute that someone will likely transfer as that is the nature of the game today. We all look at it differently, but I don't think the comparison to NBA works unless we start paying these college athletes. My two cents..
 
[quote="redmannorth" post=359111][quote="Logen" post=359100][quote="MCNPA" post=359096][quote="Logen" post=359095][quote="MCNPA" post=359073][quote="Logen" post=359071][quote="MCNPA" post=359039]I don’t think it’s classless, it’s just speculation. Speculating doesn’t make something true. The scholarships are going to come from somewhere and I’ve seen some of the guys we have off the bench from last season and I’m wondering where they’ll all fit in. The fans can’t pack anybody’s bags, but denying there are talent gaps is disingenuous.[/quote]

I have close friends whose very livelihood depends primarily on their ability to evaluate players. So it is not rare they scout them for years, see them play in tens of games, break down tapes of those games and they still get it wrong. All the baseball expert “evaluators of talent” swore the Mets farm system was barren, yet they had one young player lead the league in hitting for a portion of the year and another smash team and league records galore.
But you and others think you can look at players for a couple of minutes in mop up time and evaluate them. You are wasting a very rare and potentially lucrative talent posting such infallible insight on a forum. As for speculation on a general talent gap, that is one thing; to name names based on nothing but that speculation is quite another. IMO, that is classless. You think otherwise, you are entitled. We just disagree.[/quote]

The only names I mentioned played for SJU last season. In limited time they didn’t show much in the way of becoming players that are going to have impact anywhere near the likes of Figueroa, Heron etc. We are also offering more scholarships right now than it seems we have available so you do the math. It’s not gonna be Posh or one of the new guys leaving. I could also be wrong but have been going to recruiting events for decades and of course I’m plenty wrong too. Doesn’t mean we can’t have opinions. This is a message board, and fans speculating about playing time etc. or ability is not “classless”. I take offense to that because it is likely directed at me and we can agree to disagree but I think you’re using the term just to be insulting and get personal.[/quote]

Sorry you feel that way but my comments are directed at anyone who chooses to name names as candidates. Take it however you want, I don’t care. I am outspoken and upfront, anyone on this board for any length of time knows that. So your “speculations” regarding players and naming them is ok, but my opinion on that practice is insulting because you feel it is directed at you? How do you think they and theirs might feel about your opinions? But that’s ok, right? I guess their feelings don’t count but yours do..........[/quote]

I didn’t call anybody classless. You did. I’m just talking basketball, not attacking anybody’s character.[/quote]

Neither did I, my original post regarding this referred to “this site” not any individual. You chose to reply. If you think speculating on players on the team you root for leaving because you feel they are not good enough to stay, fine, you are entitled. But I think it is classless mainly for the reason I cited; I wonder how you would feel, if say, you were one of the players “speculated” on and your 10 year old brother who worships the ground you walk on asked why people were posting you might not be on the team anymore?
This is my last post on the subject, we disagree.[/quote]

The bottom line is that we , and I say we , are a huge bunch of hypocrites. When Earlington was signed there were comparisons with Anthony Glover, when Spears signed there were comparisons with Billy Singleton and when McGriff signed there were Mo Brown and Andre Barrrett comparisons and we were thrilled we had a pg for this season , any pg , to replace Cam who at Nebraska. Now we hear the staff is not finished recruiting for 2020 as they have filled their 4 allotted ships and the board is speculating about who will be gone, which is not too hard to figure out who the potential candidates are, and how they are not BE caliber talent. When truth be told 2 have yet to step on the floor and 1 barely played last season.
Logen calls it classless which it is and to that I add it is bloody hypocritical on our part.[/quote]

I don’t remember too much Glover, Barrett, Singleton comparisons with those guys. That seems out of context. I remember people knocking mcGriff’s height and saying that there are plenty of sub-6-foot pg’s that we’re plenty good, Barrett being one of them. I too am concerned about the level and ability of some of the kids that the prior staff AND CMA brought in for 19’. We need more talent for sure. I don’t think speculating about this stuff is classless in the least.
 
There's been a lot of classlessness on the board over the years, but I don't think speculating on names minus personal attacks is one of them, especially when it seems like staff isn't done recruiting, and we are already overloaded at some positions.
 
[quote="NCJohnnie" post=359115]Making Plays wrote: Some of you guys need to seriously look up the definition of classless.

Classless would be bashing the the player, saying he sucks, attacking his character, bringing up personal issues etc.

Saying a player may be a transfer candidate on a team that's over the scholarship limit because he may not fit in a new system (that he was not recruited for) or because he didn't play much last year is just being observant, there's nothing malicious or ill willed in that.

I sure hope some of you guys don't follow the NBA, trade rumors would have you guys at people's throat.

Have to respectfully disagree with you MP for a few reasons. One this isn't the NBA, these kids are not getting paid for their efforts and they are still kids; two, they were either recruited here directly by MA or were re-recruited by MA just a short time ago and were part of the plan then; three, I don't agree that kids don't pay any attention to what's posted here, we saw evidence last year that Simon, Trimble & Ponds were all aware of some of the criticism they received on the site.
It is way too early to say who will stay and who may go over the next year. For all of these reasons, I question the need to speculate who might decide to transfer down the line. That being said, I don't disagree for a minute that someone will likely transfer as that is the nature of the game today. We all look at it differently, but I don't think the comparison to NBA works unless we start paying these college athletes. My two cents..[/quote]

You guys are making way more out of it than it is. The is honestly one of the silliest things I've ever read people to get upset about on a message board, and I come from Arkansas message boards where people get upset if a win didn't look pretty enough.

These kids play in high major conferences in front of thousands of fans on a nightly basis, with people yelling all kinds of things, especially on the road, but I'm suppose to believe the the thing that hurts them the most is someone saying "I could see this guy transferring" on a message board. I've read a grand total of 0 people attacking any of the players character, integrity, or said anything personal about them. Fans speculate... they are going to speculate who a kid is going to commit to during recruitment, they are going to speculate how much playing time they will get, they are going to speculate what the roster will look like in the future, they are going to speculate on stats, and they are going to speculate on transfers, considering it's a HUGE part of college basketball. The national average is 2 kids transferring per school and that number is rising every year, but we can't discuss it... because a kid might read it and it hurts their feelings? Call me classless or whatever, but there's nothing wrong with harmless speculation, I don't have any ill will towards any kid, and you'll never seen me saying anything that's not basketball related towards any player.
 
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[quote="Making Plays" post=359118][quote="NCJohnnie" post=359115]Making Plays wrote: Some of you guys need to seriously look up the definition of classless.

Classless would be bashing the the player, saying he sucks, attacking his character, bringing up personal issues etc.

Saying a player may be a transfer candidate on a team that's over the scholarship limit because he may not fit in a new system (that he was not recruited for) or because he didn't play much last year is just being observant, there's nothing malicious or ill willed in that.

I sure hope some of you guys don't follow the NBA, trade rumors would have you guys at people's throat.

Have to respectfully disagree with you MP for a few reasons. One this isn't the NBA, these kids are not getting paid for their efforts and they are still kids; two, they were either recruited here directly by MA or were re-recruited by MA just a short time ago and were part of the plan then; three, I don't agree that kids don't pay any attention to what's posted here, we saw evidence last year that Simon, Trimble & Ponds were all aware of some of the criticism they received on the site.
It is way too early to say who will stay and who may go over the next year. For all of these reasons, I question the need to speculate who might decide to transfer down the line. That being said, I don't disagree for a minute that someone will likely transfer as that is the nature of the game today. We all look at it differently, but I don't think the comparison to NBA works unless we start paying these college athletes. My two cents..[/quote]

You guys are making way more out of it than it is. The is honestly one of the silliest things I've ever read people to get upset about on a message board, and I come from Arkansas message boards where people get upset if a win didn't look pretty enough.

These kids play in high major conferences in front of thousands of fans on a nightly basis, with people yelling all kinds of things, especially on the road, but I'm suppose to believe the the thing that hurts them the most is someone saying "I could see this guy transferring" on a message board. I've read a grand total of 0 people attacking any of the players character, integrity, or said anything personal about them. Fans speculate... they are going to speculate who a kid is going to commit to during recruitment, they are going to speculate how much playing time they will get, they are going to speculate what the roster will look like in the future, they are going to speculate on stats, and they are going to speculate on transfers, considering it's a HUGE part of college basketball. The national average is 2 kids transferring per school and that number is rising every year, but we can't discuss it... because a kid might read it and it hurts their feelings? Call me classless or whatever, but there's nothing wrong with harmless speculation, I don't have any ill will towards any kid, and you'll never seen me saying anything that's not basketball related towards any player.[/quote]

I enjoy your posts as they are realistic opinions without the personal attacks that often happen here. Speculating on which player would leave next was common practice under Mullin who never retained a recruit to graduation. Fans here regularly knocked players like Amar Alibegovic, Federico Mussini and others. Both the current staff and Trimble saw that he would be too slow to play uptempo ball. I hope Marcellus becomes a Charles Barkley but unless his shooting form improves radically he may not be content to be the 12th man. There is zero possibility that Figueroa returns. I think this staff will give every player a chance to play and show their talent. However, this is a business and scholarships are not 4 year guaranteed contracts. A player will stay or leave based upon his realistic expectations and like Mullin did with Amar Alibegovic, recommend a different setting to maximize his potential because the minutes would not be there.
 
Okay, not sure why, but this is bothering me.

LJ explored his options after an unexpected coaching change. He was re-recruited by CMA and has expressed that he is pumped for the upcoming season. Right now, he doesn't know what opportunities will be available to him after this year. He, himself, likely does not know what he will decide. He, nor his handlers, have made any comment about leaving SJU after this year.

Yet, at least once a day, someone posts that LJ will certainly be gone. He very well may leave, but I am not sure why we always have to push the narrative that our best player(s) are leaving.
 
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[quote="JohnnyFan" post=359122]Okay, not sure why, but this is bothering me.

LJ explored his options after an unexpected coaching change. He was re-recruited by CMA and has expressed that he is pumped for the upcoming season. Right now, he doesn't know what opportunities will be available to him after this year. He, himself, likely does not know what he will decide. He, nor his handlers, have made any comment about leaving SJU after this year.

Yet, at least once a day, someone posts that LJ will certainly be gone. He very well may leave, but I am not sure why we always have to push the narrative that our best player(s) are leaving.[/quote]

He's 22, he's thinking about those funds rolling in. Going to clubs, with loads of $100 in his wallot, flashing the bling bling, that's what these young bucks think about.
He wanted to leave this past off season but then decided to return, so yes, us as human will assume that this is his last season here. We assume, it's in our DNA, we did it the past thoudands of years, do it in the present day, and will continue to do it. So you might as well just accept it.
 
Picking out of a hat I'll 8-10, 18-13

With that said, what if:
Heron & Dunn can for a top 2-3 backcourt and combine for say 30pnts per (Heron 18, Dunn 12),
and 8assists per, and take care of the ball.
LJ goes off for 23 per.
Can Steere go for 12 & 8, maybe a block a game?
and Williams put in 7per

Who is our 6th man? Caraher who can shoot, or Roberts who is the energy guy?

Maybe if we get max from everyone then maybe 10-8 instead of 8-10.
An extra win in oof?

Would 10-8, 21-10 be nit bound?
Would that be nit bound? That would be a great start to the CMA era.

But I'm going with my worse case 8-10, 18-13
 
[quote="oldschool Redmen" post=359124]Picking out of a hat I'll 8-10, 18-13

With that said, what if:
Heron & Dunn can for a top 2-3 backcourt and combine for say 30pnts per (Heron 18, Dunn 12),
and 8assists per, and take care of the ball.
LJ goes off for 23 per.
Can Steere go for 12 & 8, maybe a block a game?
and Williams put in 7per

Who is our 6th man? Caraher who can shoot, or Roberts who is the energy guy?

Maybe if we get max from everyone then maybe 10-8 instead of 8-10.
An extra win in oof?

Would 10-8, 21-10 be nit bound?
Would that be nit bound? That would be a great start to the CMA era.

But I'm going with my worse case 8-10, 18-13[/quote]

I want what you’re having
 
I'm thinking the staff has done a pretty good job off getting good players in here, who they clearly believe will fit the style and system they want to play. And I'm thinking they've done a pretty good job of spacing out the classes, factoring in that some players don't stay for four years for a variety of reasons.

MJ Dinkins' point is (as always) well taken, which is that to compete at the highest level you usually need to have a top 10 recruit plus a few more guys in the top 50. However, establishing a winning program helps you recruit those guys, and I trust the staff's judgment that the players that are here and who they've brought in will help do that - because they're professionals with a track record of doing exactly that.

On this year's roster, Heron and Figueroa are known quantities.

I like Roberts' length, energy and athleticism, but he now has a fair amount of competition for minutes with Sears, Steere, and Champagnie. Ditto Earlington. Considering the system Anderson runs, they're all likely to get some time. You can throw Carraher in here, but my guess (and it's only a guess) is that he will have a much more limited role.

Williams has an opportunity, but he has his work cut out for him with Rutherford, Dunn, and McGriff.

Among those two groups, I don't think it's true that the Anderson recruits will have an advantage over the returning players. The returnees (except perhaps Carraher) all seem to have the characteristics of Anderson-type players, probably because they were recruited by a staff that also wanted to run the floor (albeit in a different way, but the skills are largely adapatable). I expect that the pecking order will sort itself out in practice and in the early part of the season.

The league is tough this year and the schedule is brutal, so I'm not going to get caught up in the record right now. I think the team can and will be competitive, but will still wind up in the back half of the league. Whether that's 5th or 9th is anyone's guess at this point. But I think the needle is pointing in the right direction for the program.

Now the question is whether the folks who post on this site can help get the fan base pointed in the right direction. Unfortunately there isn't a lot of evidence of that.
 
I agree that we shouldn't judge Coach Anderson based off the outcome of his first season or even his second. Absolutely the man needs and deserves time to get his players, system and culture in place before we should start expecting the lofty results everyone is hoping for. I get a very good vibe so far. I like the family environment that's been emphasized, the early conditioning, as well as the effort and thinking in recruiting. I thought the bird-in-hand approach with going hard after Posh rather than waiting on some of the higher ranked lead guards was particularly shrewd. So I'm very happy so far.

That being said, I do want to see positive results in his first season. I'm not saying that we need to make the NCAA tournament or even the NIT. We don't need to finish in the top half of the conference but I think it's okay to expect Coach Anderson to outperform expectations. This team is predicted to finish last (or 9th depending on who you listen to) I know the league will be better this season but he has two potential all-conference players in Heron and LJ. Although the players are unproven, once Steere is back we'll have more size than we have had in previous seasons. Everyone points to the PG position as being a weakness for us. It certainly is but it's not a disaster. Mullin's first year was a complete disaster. I still have nightmares of Mussini and Malik Ellison struggling to get the ball across half court. It was painful. This isn't that. Between Rutherford, McGriff, Dunn and Williams someone should prove to be at the very least a capable ball handler who can initiate the offense. Your PG doesn't need to be your best player. Someone in that group is absolutely capable and I fully expect Coach to figure out who that guy (or guys) is.

I don't want to finish last and have to convince ourselves of intangible progress. At the end of the year I'd like it to be indisputable to us fans as well as the pundits and media that Mike Anderson did more with this team than he was expected to. That means putting wins on the board. It doesn't need to be overwhelming or a "miracle season" It could mean we finish 7th or 8th with a 7-11 or 6-12 record but played the good teams tough. I'd be really excited about that. I don't need a great team or even a good one. Just outperform expectations in some tangible way. I think he will. And if he doesn't I won't demand his firing or give up on him. I just won't have the optimism I have at the moment.
 
I'll personally breather a lot easier about our chances of being competitive in the BE this year once we get the word that Dunn is eligible to play this season.
 
Good post QueensBall. I think I am looking for this team to begin to establish an identity. I don’t know how many wins that is because there are just too many unknowns on the current roster. I do expect they will struggle. Of course, I do hope and expect that LJ and MH step forward to provide some leadership and experience and to improve as the season moves along.

It would be nice to see a team that hustles on defense and at least tries to get up and down the court for some easier shots. This team doesn’t have players that are going to be effective in a set offense. I hope tough defense becomes the trademark and they become “the difficult to play against” team. Not so much worried about Wins and Losses yet. At this point, at the end of the season, I would like people to think they are a pain in the ass to play against. If they can do that we will win our share of games.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=359119]A player will stay or leave based upon his realistic expectations and like Mullin did with Amar Alibegovic, recommend a different setting to maximize his potential because the minutes would not be there.[/quote]

. . . and then take him back when his excruciating effort at upgrading the roster falls short due to factors outside his controll. LOL
 
With the season not even underway yet, I don't think it's fair to the kids to speculate on who specifically might be recruited over/forced out the door at the end of the season. Although honestly I haven't seen too many names being mentioned, but I miss a lot of posts. As for LJ, IMO speculating that he might be leaving for a pro career is fair game at any time. I mean, we did that with Ponds from pretty much the first time he stepped foot on the court.
 
I’m not sure what to expect from this team. Offense might be a bit of a challenge. If Dunn ends up being pretty good, coupled with some of our other guys like Figs, Heron, Williams Steere and improved overall depth, we might be able to be decent. It will depend on what our defense and rebounding looks like and if Steere gets eligibility. We have the ability to be a bit stronger up front with Steere for sure. If we can play some real good defense, maybe we can squeeze out another winning season. I’m hopeful we can get playing decent as a team and some of these unknowns surprise us a bit.
 
I would not get down on staff after this season but frankly if we finished 8th would be disappointed
 
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