RIP Bob Knight

[Beasts of the East]

I guess you do the so-called "body of work" review and if on balance more positive than negative then okay. However in that review egregious conduct weighs in more heavily.

I guess it's because our own worst nature is to tear down others because of their imperfections.

Knight did not win at all costs, did not pay players, did not pressure teachers to pass failing student athletes, did not violate ncaa rules.

In the end he had this horrific temper and little patience for dealing with media. He taught basketball as well as anyone ever, he prepared teams as well as anyone, ever. He possesed more integrity than most men we honor.

You wish that you can separate out negative characteristics and leave the good. We are all imperfect, but our mistakes and worst failures - at work, in our relationships, don't get played out in the public eye.

 

[Moose]

Interesting article on ESPN by Jay Bilas, who became friends with Knight in the past two decades of his life. Even though he calls him a friend, he admits he was a very complicated man. The point that stuck out to me is he referred to him as relentlessly stubborn, and gave examples of how he was unable to see others viewpoint or shift his own viewpoint once he felt he was right about something.

Jay Bilas: I liked the Bob Knight I knew

Bob Knight, who has died at age 83, had his many faults, but he also had admirable traits, including friendship.

www.espn.com

I am the farthest thing from a fan of Jay Bilas but that was a tremendous read.

 

[Beasts of the East]

I am the farthest thing from a fan of Jay Bilas but that was a tremendous read.

While we sometimes don't agree I admire and greatly respect your posts for their honesty, knowledge, and content. To me, that is far more important than whether I agree with them always, because even when i disagree I typically find value in them.

BTW, I saw Kevin Barry the other night. I had not seen him on a few years. He is doing well at Friends academy

 

[monte]

Bobby Knight was a lot of things, but stupid wasn't one of them. Bobby Knight knew the kind of recruits, and the parents, who would tolerate his behavior; for the most part he recruited and got midwestern white kids. He did not need to cheat because of the type of kids he was able to get. Besides, no one will ever convince me that any high D1 coach was ever completely clean. What, there were no boosters helping kids out at IU during Knight's tenure? No tutors taking tests for kids here and there. Come on now. The fact that he never got caught does not mean that he was completely clean.

Now, I would have more respect for Bobby Knight if he had taken a troubled kid and turned his life around. But Knight had little patience for anyone who didn't see things his way and behave the way he preached one should behave. Most certainly not the way he behaved. I still crack up at the idea of him lecturing a kid about "respect" for calling him "Knight". And lets please not act like it was just the media that he treated like shit. He treated everyone like shit-or just downright ignored them-who couldn't help Bobby Knight, or who Bobby Knight did not have some power over.

I judge a person on how he treats others. And when I say "others", I don't mean a select few. What kind of coach he was matters little to me. Unless he had been our coach, in which case right now I'd probably be talking about what a huge loss to mankind this is lol.

 

[swish]

Bobby Knight was a lot of things, but stupid wasn't one of them. Bobby Knight knew the kind of recruits, and the parents, who would tolerate his behavior; for the most part he recruited and got midwestern white kids. He did not need to cheat because of the type of kids he was able to get. Besides, no one will ever convince me that any high D1 coach was ever completely clean. What, there were no boosters helping kids out at IU during Knight's tenure? No tutors taking tests for kids here and there. Come on now. The fact that he never got caught does not mean that he was completely clean.

Now, I would have more respect for Bobby Knight if he had taken a troubled kid and turned his life around. But Knight had little patience for anyone who didn't see things his way and behave the way he preached one should behave. Most certainly not the way he behaved. I still crack up at the idea of him lecturing a kid about "respect" for calling him "Knight". And lets please not act like it was just the media that he treated like shit. He treated everyone like shit-or just downright ignored them-who couldn't help Bobby Knight, or who Bobby Knight did not have some power over.

I judge a person on how he treats others. And when I say "others", I don't mean a select few. What kind of coach he was matters little to me. Unless he had been our coach, in which case right now I'd probably be talking about what a huge loss to mankind this is lol.

 

[swish]

Well said !
Thanks Monte

 

[Beasts of the East]

I’d be interested to hear what the assaulted “kid” thought about the incident these many years later.

Here's the view, years later from Kent Harvey, whose hand was grabbed by Bob Knight for calling out "Hey Knight!"

Kent Harvey has moved on from run-in that led to Bob Knight’s firing

LostLettermen.com, the college sports fan site and player database, regularly contributes to The Dagger. Today we catch up with Kent Harvey: Twelve years removed from the infamous encounter with legendary Indiana coach Bob Knight that ultimately forced both of them … <a...

sports.yahoo.com

 

[Moose]

While we sometimes don't agree I admire and greatly respect your posts for their honesty, knowledge, and content. To me, that is far more important than whether I agree with them always, because even when i disagree I typically find value in them.

BTW, I saw Kevin Barry the other night. I had not seen him on a few years. He is doing well at Friends academy

I appreciate that. Hope all is well.

 

[capmaker]

Bob Knight: 'He never really let the world see the good side.' But it was there.

As the world looks back on Knight, he'll be remembered for controversy and legendary wins, but few knew of the softer side that was there all along.

www.indystar.com

 

[SLYFOXX1968]

Monte , I would like to refute the idea that Knight recruited only “ Midwestern White Kids.” Frankly I think that’s total BS! You are good and often poster and your comments are invariably very good .
But , you have taken Knight to the woodshed on that comment .unfairly in my opinion .

If you watched the Reception that Bobby received on his return to Bloomington , you might want to amend your statement .

Mike Woodson , current IU Coach and a former Knight player , was the impetus to have the University set aside a Tribute day for Coach Knight . That was only half the story as Bobby himself had to be convinced to return to Assembly Hall . Coach Woodson is probably the only Person that could have convinced Bobby to return . That’s the level of affection that Coach Knight received from the IU Fans that day .He and Quinn Buckner . Isaiah Thomas was there and probably a number of other players that I could not identify .

The genuine love for Knight from all his Players , without regard to Race was readily apparent . As a BB Coach , I don’t think Bobby saw any distinction between Black and White players . Nor did he in the life he lead . I

In many respects the Love for Knight expressed by a full house and thousands more that could not get into Assembly Hall is similar to the love and affection we St John’s fans hold for our icon, Lou Carnesecca



Mark Cuban , IU grad was there too.

Knight graduated 97 percent of his Players who stayed 4 Years . That’s a fantastic achievement .

Lastly , the reference to Mullin the Player and the esteem he held for Knight and vice versa was real . I recall watching a Holiday Festival game at MSG in Mullin’s Soph year I think . We won the game against IU that night .

And , in the after game as the teams walked off the Court , Knight caught up to Chris and have him a congratulatory swap on the butt , that is commonplace in Sports .
I knew then that Mullin would have no trouble being selected to the 1984 Dream Team that knight Coached . He was a Bobby Knight type Player that could shoot . Chris was the 2nd high scorer on that team to MJ .

 

[monte]

Monte , I would like to refute the idea that Knight recruited only “ Midwestern White Kids.” Frankly I think that’s total BS! You are good and often poster and your comments are invariably very good .
But , you have taken Knight to the woodshed on that comment .unfairly in my opinion .

If you watched the Reception that Bobby received on his return to Bloomington , you might want to amend your statement .

Mike Woodson , current IU Coach and a former Knight player , was the impetus to have the University set aside a Tribute day for Coach Knight . That was only half the story as Bobby himself had to be convinced to return to Assembly Hall . Coach Woodson is probably the only Person that could have convinced Bobby to return . That’s the level of affection that Coach Knight received from the IU Fans that day .He and Quinn Buckner . Isaiah Thomas was there and probably a number of other players that I could not identify .

The genuine love for Knight from all his Players , without regard to Race was readily apparent . As a BB Coach , I don’t think Bobby saw any distinction between Black and White players . Nor did he in the life he lead . I

In many respects the Love for Knight expressed by a full house and thousands more that could not get into Assembly Hall is similar to the love and affection we St John’s fans hold for our icon, Lou Carnesecca



Mark Cuban , IU grad was there too.

Knight graduated 97 percent of his Players who stayed 4 Years . That’s a fantastic achievement .

Lastly , the reference to Mullin the Player and the esteem he held for Knight and vice versa was real . I recall watching a Holiday Festival game at MSG in Mullin’s Soph year I think . We won the game against IU that night .

And , in the after game as the teams walked off the Court , Knight caught up to Chris and have him a congratulatory swap on the butt , that is commonplace in Sports .
I knew then that Mullin would have no trouble being selected to the 1984 Dream Team that knight Coached . He was a Bobby Knight type Player that could shoot . Chris was the 2nd high scorer on that team to MJ .

What part of "for the most part he recruited mostly midwestern white kids" is total bullshit exactly? If you want to call total bullshit on anything I say, you had be ready to back it up with a whole lot more than a handful of outliers.

 

[monte]

My sentiments summed up perfectly:

Mark Madden's Hot Take: Bobby Knight's resume was built while being vile and despicable

Bobby Knight was barely dead when the excuse-making started. His constant boorish behavior was justified in the name of winning, just like always. “Knight turned boys into men.” Sometimes by assaulting them. We wonder if today’s athletes are too soft, deftly making Knight’s sadistic tyranny...

triblive.com

 

[SLYFOXX1968]

What part of "for the most part he recruited mostly midwestern white kids" is total bullshit exactly? If you want to call total bullshit on anything I say, you had be ready to back it up with a whole lot more than a handful of outliers.

Outliers ? Isaiah Thomas , Bobby Wilkerson , Scott May , Landon Turner , Mike Woodson, Quinn Buckner , Calbert Cheaney, Jim Clements , Winston Morgan, Keith Smart , John Flowers ,Delray Brooks, Tony Brown, Craig Bardo,Jim Thomas, Ray Tolbert ,Wayne Radford , Steve Green, Butch Carter ,Alan Henderson , Greg Graham, Rickey Calloway , Dean Garrett, Darryl Thomas ,et Al

 

[bamafan]

Outliers ? Isaiah Thomas , Bobby Wilkerson , Scott May , Landon Turner , Mike Woodson, Quinn Buckner , Calbert Cheaney, Jim Clements , Winston Morgan, Keith Smart , John Flowers ,Delray Brooks, Tony Brown, Craig Bardo,Jim Thomas, Ray Tolbert ,Wayne Radford , Steve Green, Butch Carter ,Alan Henderson , Greg Graham, Rickey Calloway , Dean Garrett, Darryl Thomas ,et Al

Heard of all of them except et Al.

 

[monte]

Outliers ? Isaiah Thomas , Bobby Wilkerson , Scott May , Landon Turner , Mike Woodson, Quinn Buckner , Calbert Cheaney, Jim Clements , Winston Morgan, Keith Smart , John Flowers ,Delray Brooks, Tony Brown, Craig Bardo,Jim Thomas, Ray Tolbert ,Wayne Radford , Steve Green, Butch Carter ,Alan Henderson , Greg Graham, Rickey Calloway , Dean Garrett, Darryl Thomas ,et Al

Not even sure why I'm responding to you after your cheap shot, but I'll just say this: you want to vehemently disagree with what I said I'm fine that. You want to debate it that's ok too. But you want to call "total bullshit" because something that I posted rubbed you the wrong way, well that ain't cool.

 

[Silly Donovan]

One of the best St. John’s games I ever attended right out of college was against an undefeated Indiana team of Quinn Buckner, Kent Benson, Bobby Wilkerson, Scott May and Tom Abernathy. The game was close throughout and then with some clutch free throw shooting at the end, the Hoosiers pulled away from the Johnnies 76-69. Knights team went in to a 32-0 record and Natl Championship and facing the Johnnies in the Dance where the game was never in doubt with a 90-70 outcome.

As a young HS coach at the time, I had a chance to meet coach Knight a few times, once at a coaches clinic, and the man couldn’t have been nicer. My previous season’s team had been struggling defensively at the time and when I approached coach Knight after a clinic session. After I told him of my teams struggles, he invited me to meet him at the hotel lounge for a few beers. He actually brought some materials with him as we moved over to a booth and shared a few defensive drills he used in his practice sessions with me for about an hour and the mindset he would create for his players. I never forgot that as that was a side of Knight that many never saw.

 

[mjmaherjr]

One of the best St. John’s games I ever attended right out of college was against an undefeated Indiana team of Quinn Buckner, Kent Benson, Bobby Wilkerson, Scott May and Tom Abernathy. The game was close throughout and then with some clutch free throw shooting at the end, the Hoosiers pulled away from the Johnnies 76-69. Knights team went in to a 32-0 record and Natl Championship and facing the Johnnies in the Dance where the game was never in doubt with a 90-70 outcome.

As a young HS coach at the time, I had a chance to meet coach Knight a few times, once at a coaches clinic, and the man couldn’t have been nicer. My previous season’s team had been struggling defensively at the time and when I approached coach Knight after a clinic session. After I told him of my teams struggles, he invited me to meet him at the hotel lounge for a few beers. He actually brought some materials with him as we moved over to a booth and shared a few defensive drills he used in his practice sessions with me for about an hour and the mindset he would create for his players. I never forgot that as that was a side of Knight that many never saw.

That’s a cool story

 

[Silly Donovan]

Having read through this thread and the somewhat heated debate of whether coach Knight deserves to be remembered as an outstanding coach/individual, and as a new poster, my post was never meant to take sides. Monte and others certainly have a good argument as to Knights shortcomings. No one denies that he was abusive to reporters and other media personal, nor that such incidences of putting his hands around a players throat or throwing a chair across a court are anything but inappropriate and should be condemned. I merely wanted to point out that there was another side to Knight that many had not seen.

As a follow up to my story above. I attended that coaching clinic in Cherry Hill annually for many years. Two or three years later Knight would return. Once again I took his session. When he came into the room, he called me out by name ( he never forgot anyone) and yelled…..”. What the F are you doing here? Arnt you sick and tired of dealing with moron ADs and players who are a royal pain in the ass? There’s a special place in heaven for assholes like us who put up with this shit year after year and come back for more.” I’m sure I didn’t include enough F bombs, but he ended it with “Glad to see you back”. My reaction was somewhere between shock and hysterical laughing, but that was coach Knight in a nutshell….. COMPLICATED

 

[BrookJersey Redmen]

Having read through this thread and the somewhat heated debate of whether coach Knight deserves to be remembered as an outstanding coach/individual, and as a new poster, my post was never meant to take sides. Monte and others certainly have a good argument as to Knights shortcomings. No one denies that he was abusive to reporters and other media personal, nor that such incidences of putting his hands around a players throat or throwing a chair across a court are anything but inappropriate and should be condemned. I merely wanted to point out that there was another side to Knight that many had not seen.

As a follow up to my story above. I attended that coaching clinic in Cherry Hill annually for many years. Two or three years later Knight would return. Once again I took his session. When he came into the room, he called me out by name ( he never forgot anyone) and yelled…..”. What the F are you doing here? Arnt you sick and tired of dealing with moron ADs and players who are a royal pain in the ass? There’s a special place in heaven for assholes like us who put up with this shit year after year and come back for more.” I’m sure I didn’t include enough F bombs, but he ended it with “Glad to see you back”. My reaction was somewhere between shock and hysterical laughing, but that was coach Knight in a nutshell….. COMPLICATED

Silly, your stories fit in with Knight always looking up Mullin's dad and taking him out to lunch when he came through the airport where Mully Sr. worked. Good stories; being complicated there are lousy stories to match them too.

 

[SLYFOXX1968]

Not even sure why I'm responding to you after your cheap shot, but I'll just say this: you want to vehemently disagree with what I said I'm fine that. You want to debate it that's ok too. But you want to call "total bullshit" because something that I posted rubbed you the wrong way, well that ain't cool.

I think you are way off base here . It was not a Cheap shot at you personally but , the comment about Midwestern White Kids being what Knight recruited . It’s a wrong statement .

I thought you would have not gone off like a Rocket ship but , I shouldn’t use Rocket as he is also a poster here . And , had nothing to do with him .

I have read many of your posts and actually had
Complimented you for your long standing fan tenure .

Perhaps I could have said your comment about Knigjts recruiting was a total mistake and wrong besides .

Many people here use sharper words than BS on here and no one takes too much real offense . Most of the time .
I made the statement because I felt you were saying that Knight was racially prejudiced in his recruiting and that’s not true at all .

Your a astute fan and even if you dislike Knight making that untrue statement was wrong .