Go back and watch the 1984 draft. No one cringed when Portland drafted Sam Bowie at #2. They needed a center and already had Clyde Drexler. I think Louie C was a commentator that night. Knight knew Jordan would end up being Jordan. Knight told Portland, "Play him [Jordan] at center, and he will be the best center in the league".
RIP Bob Knight
- Thread starter paultzman
- Start date
Knight, on his mistakes, in his own words:
I’ve never been afraid to make a mistake, or to put myself out on a limb in trying to help a kid. I’ve sometimes known what I was doing would not be acceptable to a lot of people, or would seem harsh. But even in my mistakes, I’ve never done anything I didn’t honestly feel was in the best interest of the team or the player involved. I look at my former players’ high rate of career success and wonder: if I were to change my approach to conform to someone else’s standards, would I shortchange a future player? I admire former Georgetown coach John Thompson, because the stand he has always taken is what’s best for kids—not what’s best for the NCAA, or what looks the best, or what reads the best, or what will go over best with the media, but just simply what was best for the kids involved. While doing that great service for all those kids, he also was being one of the most demanding coaches in basketball. With all that personal respect I felt for him, imagine what it meant to me when, on a radio show after my firing, he said what athletics needed was more of me, more of people like me, not fewer.
I’ve never been afraid to make a mistake, or to put myself out on a limb in trying to help a kid. I’ve sometimes known what I was doing would not be acceptable to a lot of people, or would seem harsh. But even in my mistakes, I’ve never done anything I didn’t honestly feel was in the best interest of the team or the player involved. I look at my former players’ high rate of career success and wonder: if I were to change my approach to conform to someone else’s standards, would I shortchange a future player? I admire former Georgetown coach John Thompson, because the stand he has always taken is what’s best for kids—not what’s best for the NCAA, or what looks the best, or what reads the best, or what will go over best with the media, but just simply what was best for the kids involved. While doing that great service for all those kids, he also was being one of the most demanding coaches in basketball. With all that personal respect I felt for him, imagine what it meant to me when, on a radio show after my firing, he said what athletics needed was more of me, more of people like me, not fewer.
The Life Of That Unhappy Bobby Knight Is Brought To An End | Defector
“You must suffer me to go my own dark way.” — Robert Louis Stevenson, The Strange Case Of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde I have only one Bob Knight story. God knows, there are people who have more than I do. There are people whose reservoir of Knight stories is fathomless. Some of them have remained […]
defector.com
Last edited:
Not that there is any defense for touching a player, but in no way did Bob Knight choke Neil Reed. He did grab him by his throat, with one hand, not two as is often described and did not proceed to choke Reed.
Again, thats not defending what he did, although i have no idea what Reed said or did that caused Knight to explode. If he was choking a player, other players and coaches would have restrained Knight and ambulances and police contacted immediately.
Watch the tape. Reed defensively knocked Knights hand away and Knight didn't persist and try to grab him again.
2. The student was not assaulted by Knight, as the esquire writer sensationally charged. Kent Harvey, the student, was a smart ass. Knight grabbed the kid's arm and held on in order to tell him.in no uncertain terms not to disrespect an adult.
Honestly, and not that it was right either, but nuns 50 years ago literally beat the shit out if kids in front of the classroom in ways much worse than the 2 events that marked Knight's demise.
The difference? Knight, like Ted Williams, Bobby Valentine, McEnroe, Connors, and a bunch of other athletes and coaches with tempers, had no problem calling reporters stupid, or behaving boorishly to questions they didn't like in post game losses typically.
Embarrassed media guys with bruised feeljngs with an ax to grind. I once complained to a hs coach friend of mine that a hs coach was yelling at one of my kids. His response was, Tell 'em you have to start worrying when a coach stops yelling at you because at that point he's given up on your ability to improve.
We all kinda wish somebody got enraged last year when players openly disrespected coaches. If Curbelo was bodily thrown out of the gym or press conference after his antics the season might have gone much better.
Again, thats not defending what he did, although i have no idea what Reed said or did that caused Knight to explode. If he was choking a player, other players and coaches would have restrained Knight and ambulances and police contacted immediately.
Watch the tape. Reed defensively knocked Knights hand away and Knight didn't persist and try to grab him again.
2. The student was not assaulted by Knight, as the esquire writer sensationally charged. Kent Harvey, the student, was a smart ass. Knight grabbed the kid's arm and held on in order to tell him.in no uncertain terms not to disrespect an adult.
Honestly, and not that it was right either, but nuns 50 years ago literally beat the shit out if kids in front of the classroom in ways much worse than the 2 events that marked Knight's demise.
The difference? Knight, like Ted Williams, Bobby Valentine, McEnroe, Connors, and a bunch of other athletes and coaches with tempers, had no problem calling reporters stupid, or behaving boorishly to questions they didn't like in post game losses typically.
Embarrassed media guys with bruised feeljngs with an ax to grind. I once complained to a hs coach friend of mine that a hs coach was yelling at one of my kids. His response was, Tell 'em you have to start worrying when a coach stops yelling at you because at that point he's given up on your ability to improve.
We all kinda wish somebody got enraged last year when players openly disrespected coaches. If Curbelo was bodily thrown out of the gym or press conference after his antics the season might have gone much better.
All true but I think Knight was referring to the student who had his arm grabbed not Reed.
Ex-Hoosier Reed, figure in Knight's firing, dies
Former Indiana basketball player Neil Reed, whom Bob Knight was caught on tape choking in 1997, died Thursday, sources close to the family told ESPN.www.espn.com
He never wanted that spotlight shined on him and knew fans in Indiana would villainize as the guy who turned on Knight. The journalist pursued him for several years and he did not want to speak about it.
He became a gym teacher at pioner valley, and the kids loved him. He put on a ton of weight, and was relieved for the 1st time in his life didn't have to stay in playing shape.
I really feel that Neil Reed was collateral damage in the quest to get the story that brought down Bobby Knight. It is a tragedy really.
Isn't "discipline" also about self control?
If you were in Bobby Knight's orbit because Bobby Knight needed you, and if you played by Bobby Knight's rules, he tolerated you. Otherwise he had no use for you and treated you accordingly. Real stellar human being, that guy.
If you were in Bobby Knight's orbit because Bobby Knight needed you, and if you played by Bobby Knight's rules, he tolerated you. Otherwise he had no use for you and treated you accordingly. Real stellar human being, that guy.
The problem with Knight was that he “demanded” discipline and respect as the “superior” or Coach. However, he didn’t give or show the same discipline and respect to others.
I loved watching Bob Knight's teams. When they were on, they were often a beautiful sight to see on both ends.
But the guy was the biggest snowflake this side of a blizzard. He was so thin-skinned he might have been transparent. You looked at him the wrong way and it would be World War III. He'd lash out and bully just about anyone he saw fit.
And he never owned up to anything because anything that went wrong in a game was a player's fault, a ref's fault, an assistant coach's fault, hell the popcorn vendor's fault. The media, the fans, his IU bosses made him out to be so big that he could do no wrong. The fact that his chair-throwing is still celebrated in Indiana tells you all you need to know about how bullies rise to the top of the schoolyard.
Compare that to our own Lou Carnessecca who didn't come close to Knight's achievements but was humble and self-deprecating and decent as they come - a true leader of men like Joe Lapchick, Frank McGuire, Al McGuire. And yeah St. Lou yelled and cursed at his players too. Hell even Rick - my favorite coach of all time whose resume is on par with Knight - often talks about his failures with the Celtics and what he learned from them.
Bob Knight wasn't fired because he put his hands around Neil Reed's neck. He was fired because he wasn't winning like he used to. I mean he punched a freakin cop in Puerto Rico over a scheduling snafu at the 1979 Pan Am games and fled before he could be tried. But that was right after the perfect season and he had Isiaih Thomas in the fold for another championship run.
So kudos to all the winning, the 84 gold medal, the graduation rate and running a clean program. But hell, I'd take Jerry Tarkanian over him to run my program every day of the week and twice on Sundays. It doesn't take a bully to make your players run through the wall for you.
But the guy was the biggest snowflake this side of a blizzard. He was so thin-skinned he might have been transparent. You looked at him the wrong way and it would be World War III. He'd lash out and bully just about anyone he saw fit.
And he never owned up to anything because anything that went wrong in a game was a player's fault, a ref's fault, an assistant coach's fault, hell the popcorn vendor's fault. The media, the fans, his IU bosses made him out to be so big that he could do no wrong. The fact that his chair-throwing is still celebrated in Indiana tells you all you need to know about how bullies rise to the top of the schoolyard.
Compare that to our own Lou Carnessecca who didn't come close to Knight's achievements but was humble and self-deprecating and decent as they come - a true leader of men like Joe Lapchick, Frank McGuire, Al McGuire. And yeah St. Lou yelled and cursed at his players too. Hell even Rick - my favorite coach of all time whose resume is on par with Knight - often talks about his failures with the Celtics and what he learned from them.
Bob Knight wasn't fired because he put his hands around Neil Reed's neck. He was fired because he wasn't winning like he used to. I mean he punched a freakin cop in Puerto Rico over a scheduling snafu at the 1979 Pan Am games and fled before he could be tried. But that was right after the perfect season and he had Isiaih Thomas in the fold for another championship run.
So kudos to all the winning, the 84 gold medal, the graduation rate and running a clean program. But hell, I'd take Jerry Tarkanian over him to run my program every day of the week and twice on Sundays. It doesn't take a bully to make your players run through the wall for you.
Last edited:
I think what you described was in fact an assault.
I did a little deeper dive, and while I think Knight's reaction was way over the top, even 25 years ago, an assault is a strong word. There was no injury, no pain, no damage. He put his hands on a player, and the photos you can find on line with 2 hands around Reed's head is during a game when he was speaking to him, not the event in practice.
What happens in a gym, even today, in a workplace environment would be grounds for HR intervention, disciplinary action, even termination for the way a coach would scream at players during practice, or requiring players to practice very early in the morning or very late at night.
However, what a drill sergeant does and says in basic training is completely permissible.
Don't get me wrong. There is no justifying Knight's conduct to reporters, etc, but the two events that brought him down were somewhat minor. As posted here, overwhelming number of former players loved him. I would say also that all knew if they played for him, he would be a rough disciplinarian. They would have to go to class, do what he says, and not question him. Neil Reed in practice committed a venial sin - back talking Knight to disagree with what he was teaching him. Anyone who knows Knight and anyone who played for him should have known better. But that doesn't excuse him one bit.
All in all a great coach, and like Ted Williams, etc, could have done without the horrible temper and resulting behavior. I do respect your opinion and right to express it.
Very well put. In my opinion, he's clearly one of the greatest basketball minds of all time, and the results speak for themselves. It's just unfortunate that not only was he never truly able to take accountability for his mistakes, but it also appeared he was totally unable to look in the mirror and see that he had much room for improvement as a man as well.
ChiTown Red
Well-known member
Bingo to the bolded. If this was the 1975-1976 team, Knight would still have been coaching Indiana.
Knight is certainly complicated, and had his good and bad qualities. He wasn't my cup of tea, but what I think doesn't matter.
Alumni Hall
Well-known member
Quick Knight story, in the 1999 NCAA’s SJU was matched up in the 2nd round vs #19 Indiana in Orlando. We practiced first on the off day. After practice Coach Jarvis and two captains headed off to the press conference with our SID, Dom Sciana. We noticed that Indiana was not waiting in the wings to come on the court as usual. All of a sudden we hear Coach Knight’s voice SCREAMING in his locker room near ours. He went off in a tirade on his team for about 20 minutes with his usual colorful language. When they finally did come on the court, I asked my good friend and IU team trainer, what the heck happened. He said that one of the starters forgot his sneakers back at the hotel and Knight took that as they were not mentally ready to play. Well, he was right as we smashed them by 25 giving IU their worst NCAA loss in their history!
A day we knew would come: The death of IU coach Bob Knight, and the reckoning of a legacy
Two kinds of worlds, and today we straddle both: One with Bob Knight, and one without him. Two kinds of basketball, too: Before Bob Knight, and after.
www.indystar.com
Bobby Knight lived on the edge of both sides of the spectrum, good and bad and there are many true stories to confirm both. Not a single one of us is one thing and he was a living embodiment of that fact. I would hate to be judged solely on the worst things I have done in my 73 years on earth nor do I deserve to be judged on only the best.
That story about Mully's dad is great; he grew near us in Flatbush (he was more Flatlands) and my uncles knew Mully Sr.
On the one hand, he was so upset with a golf course starter who wouldn't let him get in front of other groups he hit golf balls into a parking lot dinging cars left and right until the starter pushed him ahead of other golfers.....
On the other hand, he took care of Landon Turner when he became paralyzed and made sure for the rest of his life he had nothing to worry about.
One thing can be true at the same time as the other thing is true.
I guess you do the so-called "body of work" review and if on balance more positive than negative then okay. However in that review egregious conduct weighs in more heavily.
On the other hand, he took care of Landon Turner when he became paralyzed and made sure for the rest of his life he had nothing to worry about.
One thing can be true at the same time as the other thing is true.
I guess you do the so-called "body of work" review and if on balance more positive than negative then okay. However in that review egregious conduct weighs in more heavily.