I don’t agree with the nonsense Fanta spewed about Soriano. Empty calories? BS. Soriano worked his ass off to get better. He had very little help on the inside. That being said his numbers might “drop” just because we might have some players who can help carry the load and dare I say make a few shots.
Rick Pitino - Head Coach at St John’s University!!!
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I don’t agree with the nonsense Fanta spewed about Soriano. Empty calories? BS. Soriano worked his ass off to get better. He had very little help on the inside. That being said his numbers might “drop” just because we might have some players who can help carry the load and dare I say make a few shots.
If 15 & 12 was empty, a lot more guys would do it.
Do I think he was aided by our lack of scorers and rebounders? absolutely.
But there aren’t more than a dozen guys in the entire country who if put in the exact same situation would have produced the same.
I think his numbers might dip a little bit that’s only because 15 & 12 is damn ridiculous and he’ll have more options around but I do think it’s being undersold a bit that we have a 5th year center returning who is capable of averaging those numbers. The BE does have a great stable of bigs though, and I don’t think saying he’s not the best big returning is a slight at Joel.
Do I think he was aided by our lack of scorers and rebounders? absolutely.
But there aren’t more than a dozen guys in the entire country who if put in the exact same situation would have produced the same.
I think his numbers might dip a little bit that’s only because 15 & 12 is damn ridiculous and he’ll have more options around but I do think it’s being undersold a bit that we have a 5th year center returning who is capable of averaging those numbers. The BE does have a great stable of bigs though, and I don’t think saying he’s not the best big returning is a slight at Joel.
Great observation Mase, sometimes lesser scoring stats can equate to betterment for bigs. Staff has been working hard on Joel’s conditioning and quickness.
If he responds better to switches and recoveries, the needle is moving in right direction, as would an increase in assists hitting cutters more fluidly in Pitino’s constant movement approach. To me it is about totality and not replicating stats which were in any case impressive last year. I think we will see a more rounded, effective player who also won’t foul as much w increased quickness. Our depth will more than make up for any dip in his scoring imo.
RedmanMike
Well-known member
Guys - I wasn't trying to get into a McKIllop vs. Pitino debate. That's a no-brainer - it's Pitino by a mile. And I cannot tell you how glad I am that he's our coach - I basically assumed once he took the Knicks' job in 1987 that he was out of our league for good.
All I was trying to do is to say that the right hire at the right time (McKillop instead of Roberts in 2004) would have fundamentally changed the trajectory of our program. McKillop would have been our coach for 20 years, and I have no doubt that we would have been a very good team most of that time. (One of my best friend has been a D.1 coach for more than 15 years, and he has always said that McKillop was one of the best and most underrated coaches around.)
Instead, we basically got 20 years in the Roberts-Lavin-Mullin-Anderson wilderness.
It's all water under the bridge now anyway. We've got the right guy, and it's a great time to be a Johnnies fan.
All I was trying to do is to say that the right hire at the right time (McKillop instead of Roberts in 2004) would have fundamentally changed the trajectory of our program. McKillop would have been our coach for 20 years, and I have no doubt that we would have been a very good team most of that time. (One of my best friend has been a D.1 coach for more than 15 years, and he has always said that McKillop was one of the best and most underrated coaches around.)
Instead, we basically got 20 years in the Roberts-Lavin-Mullin-Anderson wilderness.
It's all water under the bridge now anyway. We've got the right guy, and it's a great time to be a Johnnies fan.
I don't think he's a great offensive player.
But, rebounding is rebounding, so unless he gets in foul trouble, I expect that number to continue, and since he's especially good off the offensive glass, that will lead to some points.
His offensive game needed work despite the numbers last year and I expect will be better this year even if the scoring numbers don’t reflect it due to the improved talent around him who will help share the scoring load.
Rebounding total is dependent on a lot of factors out of his control though, and 12 is a ton. I won’t be shocked if he matches the rebounding numbers cause he’s proven he’s capable of it. But he could also be a better rebounder this year and still get less than 12 a game.
Some factors that might make that number dip a bit:
- Less minutes (more talent)
- less possessions (better D)
- Ledlum has a rep as a great rebounder
good points..to add one, we make more outside shots so there are fewer rebounds to secure.
True but we’ll also likely take a healthy amount more 3’s this year which lead to great offensive rebounding numbers.
That’s because 3s usually produce long rebounds which is not going to help a centers numbers.
Long rebounds as in 10 feet. Not ricocheting to the perimeter. He will still be the best positioned guy to clean the glass.
As to Soriano, since he is being discussed in this thread and we all watch a ton of the games. Numbers aside he was much improved last year. On a team where, whatever was going on, similar improvement was hard to find. Considering when the team started taking on water Anderson named him captain, and then when Pitino came in, he only wanted to retain Joel and Drissa from an entire roster, it isn't a big leap to conclude Soriano is willing to put in the work to be as good as he can be. And it is not even disrespectful to Anderson to consider Pitino an upgrade as a developmental coach. I fully expect Joel to take another step up.
All of that leads me to think that Soriano might be weirdly underestimated going into the season. With the NBA only wanting players with range at all positions and NIL money competing with the overseas option there are more good college big men around than there was four, five, even ten years ago. A bunch of them happen to be in the Big East. But not many people grow to 6-10 or more and center is still the hardest position to fill.
SJU has a big edge here, and it's been a long time since I looked at the position that way.
All of that leads me to think that Soriano might be weirdly underestimated going into the season. With the NBA only wanting players with range at all positions and NIL money competing with the overseas option there are more good college big men around than there was four, five, even ten years ago. A bunch of them happen to be in the Big East. But not many people grow to 6-10 or more and center is still the hardest position to fill.
SJU has a big edge here, and it's been a long time since I looked at the position that way.
Add to that, we will be hitting a higher percentage of threes,
and it's a plus.
Cal, Self and K were consummate cheaters, not great recruiters. Many “great” coaches walked that path but let’s not confuse the two. Great PR doesn’t change the reality.
Jayson Williams when he was leading the nba or close to it in rebounding when he was on one of the late night shows Leno or something said “ I’d like to thank my teammates for missing so many shots “
Agree…actually think his scoring took a hit later in the season when teams doubled him more and more. It served to speed him up a bit and,as a result, he tended to rush his shots often throwing the ball up at the rim. I believe RP is probably already working on this.
His stats may very well take a hit, but it’ll be more because we have options that can score from all points on the floor.
I agree with Fanta on Soriano and the wins expectation. I think he’s insane about Ledlum playing some center if Soriano isn’t doing well. The kid is 6’6.
Soriano is very good to me but not a star. I am always skeptical of good stats on bad teams.
Is he much or any smaller than Brownlee or Marvin Clark who both started at center for two of our last 3 ncaa T teams?
I’m not sure Fanta said exactly but to think as it stands he won’t get any minutes there, seems silly with him being the 3rd in line currently.
He’s not a center, but he might be our biggest guy out there with some lineups.