Rick’s Targets

newsman13 said:
I agree with the premise. At this point, we have basically lesser players than we gave up. On the other hand, the prospect of coaching against Pitino is daunting...especially in the post season if we get there.
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As I stated, I am not familiar with the new players so I have no basis for comparison. I do know there was basically one player I would have been concerned about staying from last years team, and he stayed.
I do know there are players at every level of college ball who can play and I am pretty sure the vast majority of posters lamenting the lack of “impact” players are about as familiar with the still being shaped roster as I am. They know the front of the players previous jersey and that is enough for them to make a judgement on ability, that is just not me.
It is a bit funny to me that some of the people clamoring that Pitino was the only coach who could resurrect the program didn’t even realize he is a molder of teams, not a five star recruiter who rolls the ball out and lets talent win or lose. For all his HOF success, he has sent two “impact” players to the NBA and a couple of others who had decent, journeyman careers there. That is not a criteria for a successful college coach by any means but it is reflective of his style.
The bottom line to me is Pitino has brought in 3 players he knows very well and 2 experienced, mature players who have had some level of success at the college game with roster spots left to fill. For those who thought he was going to fill the roster like Coach K or Calipari, I don’t really think you did your homework.
And at least for me, I have seen all the “me” ball I want to see, I am very much looking forward to team ball. Others may differ.
 
Just remember it’s about the sum of the parts in the end. I’ve been wanting a faceup big (pass, shoot, dribble) for a long time. Glad to see Slazinski on board he should be a nice fit next to Joel whether he starts or not. A team that can’t be left open from outside can stress defenses, especially with a good post player who can also pick and pop. Hopefully the Niagara guy is next, the goal should be to get old and stay old, that’s how you become a consistently good program. With college having free agency nowadays coaches have a better idea of what skills guys bring so there’s less guess work and they can just plug and play. Stay patient and let’s see what happens.
 
billthetruth said:
Rick Pitino runs with some pretty wealthy guys. Hang out at the inside bar at Siros in August and you will understand.
Funding NILs for top high schoolers in 2024 should not be a problem.

He would not have taken this job if the latter point would be an issue
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agree but why not fund 1yr NIL guys too if they dont overlap on money ? Hypothetically NIL wise we are the Oakland A's so far. Not criticizing anyone just an observation
 
People need to understand as well that options as far as booming young talent are limited. 92 of the top 100 are already committed to other schools as are much of the 101–200. Entering the spring and rebuilding the roster is no small task as it’s almost all portal kida and the top schools are still fighting over the better ones to fill slots on established teams. I think that is where tempering of expectations comes in. There is a limited amount of talent available and we need double digit players for our roster.
 
MCNPA said:
People need to understand as well that options as far as booming young talent are limited. 92 of the top 100 are already committed to other schools as are much of the 101–200. Entering the spring and rebuilding the roster is no small task as it’s almost all portal kida and the top schools are still fighting over the better ones to fill slots on established teams. I think that is where tempering of expectations comes in. There is a limited amount of talent available and we need double digit players for our roster.
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That's the point of keeping the majority of our guys... It appears...and I'm as out of touch as anyone...that the players were let go to boost the school's lawsuit against Anderson.
 
MCNPA said:
I think most are better except for Storr so far imo. Then again, Alleyne beats Storr, though I’d have liked to keep him. We had zero offense with respect to the guys that moved on, like none. In addition our defense also wasn’t good at all under cma. It’s early yet but we are recruiting with a very different focus which is offense. I don’t see a lot of big losses talent-wise. The guy we needed to keep, we did which was Soriano.
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A lot of reality and truth in what you have shared!
 
newsman13 said:
That's the point of keeping the majority of our guys... It appears...and I'm as out of touch as anyone...that the players were let go to boost the school's lawsuit against Anderson.
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As I said in a prior post though, I don’t think that’s the case at all. Pitino kept 3 guys in Soriano, Keita and Traore. He offered to keep Posh, Storr and Gardener but it sounds like they didn’t want to accept the role they were offered. He wanted to keep at least 6 from the existing team which is not as bad as some are making it. Some of the others had “issues” of which I’m not going to try to figure out here.

One has to also understand that Pitino has some loyalty to the kids he brought in at Iona to play for him. I think that’s admirable as well and probably always wanted to bring several of his Iona guys here who he thinks are talented and he’s comfortable with. I don’t blame him for doing that either.

Now we have to add to the lot we have left but he didn’t exactly jettison everybody like some are making it. I think that very few, if any except Soriano are irreplaceable. Gotta find the kids that want to be here, but gotta remember that the pickings are much slimmer than if Rick was hired prior to most of the 23 class being already committed and having to rely solely on the portal.

We still have 5 ships to go though and I think we will land solid talent with it.
 
RedStormRising said:
Just to be fair we all agree the following things happened correct?

1. Pitino is hired
2. Pitino says I see 6 - 8 new players on this team.
3. Pitino says we will see a turnaround in "months not years"
4. 8 players enter the transfer portal. Some told there wasn't a place for them, some suggested there may be greener pastures elsewhere, some were given the opportunity to return and chose not to.
5. 2 recruits were told to reopen their recruitment, 1 was offered a spot to stay and chose not to.
6. Pitino brings in the 2nd, 4th, and 6th best player from his Iona (argue those placements if you want what we do know is it's 1 started, one borderline starter, and one bench contributor).
7. Pitino brings in the 2nd Leading Scorer on the Keydets. (if anyone says they have seen a VMI game I would question their honesty). I assume they have a big time rivalry with Washington and Lee.
8. Pitino brings in the a bench contributor from the national championship.

If we were to take Pitino at his word, that we should expect a turnaround in months not years (unless he's going to hit us up with 'I meant 48 months') it is fair and I'd argue wise to ask how he plans on accomplishing that with this level of recruiting in the best basketball conference in the nation.

The answer Rick Pitino is infallible seems soft. If he has Hunter Dickinson, Max Abrams, and Mac Mgbako in his back pocket that's one thing, but as of April 19th 2023, he is being out recruited by the vast majority of big east teams. I'm not sure that's the formula to making waves in conference.
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3. Turnaround didn't mean quality of play? We looked awful quite often. Pretty sure we need to wait until the season to see whether this is true.

7. Every game is televised during championship week.

1. You were completely pissy about the hiring three weeks before it happened and haven't stopped since.
 
newsman13 said:
That's the point of keeping the majority of our guys... It appears...and I'm as out of touch as anyone...that the players were let go to boost the school's lawsuit against Anderson.
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There is no way Pitino would lose players deliberately for that reason. He’s been doing this at a very high level for 35 years. He deserves to pick his players, and I believe him when he says he can size up a player’s willingness to put in the effort very quickly. Why can’t you wait to see what happens and decide you’re right about how he’s whiffed in recruiting then?
 
logen said:
As I stated, I am not familiar with the new players so I have no basis for comparison. I do know there was basically one player I would have been concerned about staying from last years team, and he stayed.
I do know there are players at every level of college ball who can play and I am pretty sure the vast majority of posters lamenting the lack of “impact” players are about as familiar with the still being shaped roster as I am. They know the front of the players previous jersey and that is enough for them to make a judgement on ability, that is just not me.
It is a bit funny to me that some of the people clamoring that Pitino was the only coach who could resurrect the program didn’t even realize he is a molder of teams, not a five star recruiter who rolls the ball out and lets talent win or lose. For all his HOF success, he has sent two “impact” players to the NBA and a couple of others who had decent, journeyman careers there. That is not a criteria for a successful college coach by any means but it is reflective of his style.
The bottom line to me is Pitino has brought in 3 players he knows very well and 2 experienced, mature players who have had some level of success at the college game with roster spots left to fill. For those who thought he was going to fill the roster like Coach K or Calipari, I don’t really think you did your homework.
And at least for me, I have seen all the “me” ball I want to see, I am very much looking forward to team ball. Others may differ.
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Logen - your posts continue to be well written and insightful and I appreciate them. When I stop obsessing about all the points of view beaten to death this past month, I take a breath of fresh air - knowing we now have a terrific coach - the GOAT - who molds not just teams but WINNING programs as he most recently did at Iona.
The future is bright. 2023-24 will be fun - something we have not had since the turn of the century during the Bush and Clinton administrations - or was it Grover Cleveland? It’s been a while.
Fun watching St.John’s basketball it will be!
How nice.
Thanks
SS&G
 
Marillac2 said:
If anyone hasn’t recalibrated their expectations for 2023 then there is something wrong with them. You can love Pitino and be hopeful for the future while still being disappointed with the roster this year. I am actually shocked at the lack of marquee players to be honest.
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Dear Marillac2
Sounds like nothing at all has occurred during the past months reign - or has it been years already of Rick Pitino have brought zero in the progress category. His style is old already. Tiresome.

Oh well I long for the good old days of Robert’s, Jarvis, Anderson - not a law firm but mediocre coaches bringing us mediocre results.

Rick Pitino is the GOAT and he only knows how to build programs, maximize a kid’s talent and, what is that word? Oh yes I remember, WIN.

Fun times are finally back. I’m already enjoying them. Life - when you get to my age - filled with death and illnesses to friends and family - is truly too short to overlook the fun stuff.
Oh well…
Blessings -
SS&G
 
Rocket said:
Quinn is the type of player Creighton usually gets. You never turn away a 6'9 player who is coachable and can shoot. While I liked both Nyiwe and Stanley, neither ever brought any offense to the lineup when in the game.
While lacking the same lateral quickness on defense of the other two, his offense and nose for the ball are way ahead of both.
I consider Quinn an upgrade from both the departed players.
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Once again you are comparing him to last year’s team which should not be the standard.

In any event, I don’t think anybody disagrees that Quinn would be a decent backup. The problem is right now he projects to be a starter.
 
Boo Harvey said:
Once again you are comparing him to last year’s team which should not be the standard.

In any event, I don’t think anybody disagrees that Quinn would be a decent backup. The problem is right now he projects to be a starter.
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The building of the roster is not finished. The product on the floor will play fundamental basketball. That will be a huge improvement from last years team. Win or lose it will be leaps and bounds improvement on last years teams strategies. Watching the terrible defense and offense was frustrating and basically stupid!
 
I don’t think anyone is blaming Pitino for the quality of the players coming in. This is a ST John’s problem not a Pitino problem. And the defense of “trust the HOF coach” is also silly. No one is questioning him. I think most who will admit it are surprised at the level of the players coming in. Is it possible that as great as Pitino is he underestimated how hard it will be to get players here? Why is that so hard to fathom?”

I think most assumed Clayton and Ledlum both of whom are good, solid players but not superstar’s by any means would be here when Pitino was hired. I am sure this will eventually work out, but probably not next year.

I can only speak for myself, I am surprised at the initial recruiting. Again not a Pitino thing but a ST John’s thing. I also predict that the first posters to turn on Pitino if we go 17-15 are those “defending” him if anyone questions anything.
 
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