I entered the school of pharmacy under the GI Bill in 1956. The then 4 yr. program cost $900.00 per year or $3,600.00 for 4 yrs and the total number of credits 160. That was the biggest bargain in my life for a wonderful Catholic education and an outstanding pharmacy education. I look at today's 6 yr. Doctorate program cost and I shudder. I truly was fortunate.
President Bobby
- Thread starter Moose
- Start date
Saw this when looking at something else on St. John's news.
Hopeful we get some great candidates to apply and choose the right one.
Job Description
[URL]https://jobs.chronicle.com/job/278370/president/?LinkSource[/URL]=PremiumListing
Leadership profile
[URL]https://www.wittkieffer.com/positionfiles/u1909334/St.[/URL]+John%27s+University+President+-+Leadership+Profile+FINAL+7.24.2020.pdf
Hopeful we get some great candidates to apply and choose the right one.
Job Description
[URL]https://jobs.chronicle.com/job/278370/president/?LinkSource[/URL]=PremiumListing
Leadership profile
[URL]https://www.wittkieffer.com/positionfiles/u1909334/St.[/URL]+John%27s+University+President+-+Leadership+Profile+FINAL+7.24.2020.pdf
Last edited:
JohnnyFever
Active member
Thanks! Just applied! Vote for Zaun!
[quote="William T. Cicio" post=393246]I entered the school of pharmacy under the GI Bill in 1956. The then 4 yr. program cost $900.00 per year or $3,600.00 for 4 yrs and the total number of credits 160. That was the biggest bargain in my life for a wonderful Catholic education and an outstanding pharmacy education. I look at today's 6 yr. Doctorate program cost and I shudder. I truly was fortunate.[/quote]
When I decided to return to college as a 34 year old freshman in 1982, the tuition was 3,000.00 a year and stayed around that amount until I graduated in 1986. I also received Pell and TAP grants. I was working after my first semester but did not make that much money.
This means that in the 30 years between 56 and 86, the tuition may have increased fourfold. By 2006, the tuition increased to around 50,000.00 a year. This is more than 15 x what it was in 1986. Is it really worth it? I am not talking about St Johns, but any school.
I majored in Human Service and Counseling, which was part of the School of Education. At that time, there were a lot more males majoring in Education. Now, a young man thinking about getting married and raising a family can't afford to Major in Education or Social Work. Careers in both of these fields require Master's Degrees which means an additional two years of Education.
In my case, once I graduated, I got a good job at Beth Israel Medial Center. After a few years, my employer paid for me to attend Graduate School at NYU. These types of programs no longer exist. Before I returned to college, I worked at the NY Telephone Co., they also had a program where employees could go to school for free.
I guess what I am trying to point out is that the world has changed in regards to how students and employees are viewed over the past 40 - 50 years. Corporate greed has taken over. No longer are employees encouraged and assisted in improving themselves, now it is about the bottom line and showing profits for shareholders.
My wife and I are in our 70's, raising our granddaughter who will be a freshman in high school in September. By the time she is ready for college, tuition will be over $70,000.00 a year. 60% of the country makes less than $50,000.00 a year. Something is very wrong here.
This problem is a lot more complicated than just St Johns or any school, it boils down to the disenfranchisement of most individuals in today's America.
When I decided to return to college as a 34 year old freshman in 1982, the tuition was 3,000.00 a year and stayed around that amount until I graduated in 1986. I also received Pell and TAP grants. I was working after my first semester but did not make that much money.
This means that in the 30 years between 56 and 86, the tuition may have increased fourfold. By 2006, the tuition increased to around 50,000.00 a year. This is more than 15 x what it was in 1986. Is it really worth it? I am not talking about St Johns, but any school.
I majored in Human Service and Counseling, which was part of the School of Education. At that time, there were a lot more males majoring in Education. Now, a young man thinking about getting married and raising a family can't afford to Major in Education or Social Work. Careers in both of these fields require Master's Degrees which means an additional two years of Education.
In my case, once I graduated, I got a good job at Beth Israel Medial Center. After a few years, my employer paid for me to attend Graduate School at NYU. These types of programs no longer exist. Before I returned to college, I worked at the NY Telephone Co., they also had a program where employees could go to school for free.
I guess what I am trying to point out is that the world has changed in regards to how students and employees are viewed over the past 40 - 50 years. Corporate greed has taken over. No longer are employees encouraged and assisted in improving themselves, now it is about the bottom line and showing profits for shareholders.
My wife and I are in our 70's, raising our granddaughter who will be a freshman in high school in September. By the time she is ready for college, tuition will be over $70,000.00 a year. 60% of the country makes less than $50,000.00 a year. Something is very wrong here.
This problem is a lot more complicated than just St Johns or any school, it boils down to the disenfranchisement of most individuals in today's America.
Spocky Ramone
Well-known member
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=394712]Thanks! Just applied! Vote for Zaun![/quote]
He’s ready to go!
He’s ready to go!
beast of the east
Active member
[quote="panther2" post=394842][quote="William T. Cicio" post=393246]I entered the school of pharmacy under the GI Bill in 1956. The then 4 yr. program cost $900.00 per year or $3,600.00 for 4 yrs and the total number of credits 160. That was the biggest bargain in my life for a wonderful Catholic education and an outstanding pharmacy education. I look at today's 6 yr. Doctorate program cost and I shudder. I truly was fortunate.[/quote]
When I decided to return to college as a 34 year old freshman in 1982, the tuition was 3,000.00 a year and stayed around that amount until I graduated in 1986. I also received Pell and TAP grants. I was working after my first semester but did not make that much money.
This means that in the 30 years between 56 and 86, the tuition may have increased fourfold. By 2006, the tuition increased to around 50,000.00 a year. This is more than 15 x what it was in 1986. Is it really worth it? I am not talking about St Johns, but any school.
I majored in Human Service and Counseling, which was part of the School of Education. At that time, there were a lot more males majoring in Education. Now, a young man thinking about getting married and raising a family can't afford to Major in Education or Social Work. Careers in both of these fields require Master's Degrees which means an additional two years of Education.
In my case, once I graduated, I got a good job at Beth Israel Medial Center. After a few years, my employer paid for me to attend Graduate School at NYU. These types of programs no longer exist. Before I returned to college, I worked at the NY Telephone Co., they also had a program where employees could go to school for free.
I guess what I am trying to point out is that the world has changed in regards to how students and employees are viewed over the past 40 - 50 years. Corporate greed has taken over. No longer are employees encouraged and assisted in improving themselves, now it is about the bottom line and showing profits for shareholders.
My wife and I are in our 70's, raising our granddaughter who will be a freshman in high school in September. By the time she is ready for college, tuition will be over $70,000.00 a year. 60% of the country makes less than $50,000.00 a year. Something is very wrong here.
This problem is a lot more complicated than just St Johns or any school, it boils down to the disenfranchisement of most individuals in today's America.[/quote]
Panther, I agree with much of what you say in terms of the cost of education, and also about benefits. Most of the area's larger hospitals had a tuition reimbursement program. Beth Israel and Sinai were sister hospitals primarily because of religious affiliation and I'm not even sure if Sinai's tuition reimbursement required you to major in something related to your job.
Back when you started at BI, employee retention was much better. Generally speaking, once someone landed a good job, they would stay there longer than today. Today, it is not unusual to see qualified graduates have resumes of 8 jobs in 10 years. i always passed on such resumes, because I reasoned that with a steep learning curve by the time they are providing 100% value, they are already looking to move on to a higher paying job.
I don't know if it's a chicken and egg thing, but why would an employer pay for someone's education (at a much higher cost than 30 years ago), when that employee will take off once they have that undergrad or advanced degree. Actually, as an employee, I didn't think my graduate degree helped the hospital much, and internally questioned the wisdom of it.
No question though that the loyalty between employer and employee is shot unless employers work very hard at creating cultures where workers are valued, treated humanely, and their successes celebrated. For example, I am adamant that layoffs are destructive to employee morale, especially when companies are even minimally profitable.
Private college tuitions are just ridiculously high. Any kid paying for college via student loans (about 95%) have to make careful economic decisions about the ROI of the loan. Federally subsidized student loans directly helped private colleges attract students who otherwise would not have applied. The competitiveness among private schools caused schools to beautify campuses, erect stunning edifices, build healthclubs, coffee shops, apartment style dormitories, and many other improvements. Tuition was raised at a clip of 8% annually. Still, today, kids choosing colleges are attracted by these amenities, and most colleges would not even come close to breaking even on tuition/room and board if it were not for donations.
When I decided to return to college as a 34 year old freshman in 1982, the tuition was 3,000.00 a year and stayed around that amount until I graduated in 1986. I also received Pell and TAP grants. I was working after my first semester but did not make that much money.
This means that in the 30 years between 56 and 86, the tuition may have increased fourfold. By 2006, the tuition increased to around 50,000.00 a year. This is more than 15 x what it was in 1986. Is it really worth it? I am not talking about St Johns, but any school.
I majored in Human Service and Counseling, which was part of the School of Education. At that time, there were a lot more males majoring in Education. Now, a young man thinking about getting married and raising a family can't afford to Major in Education or Social Work. Careers in both of these fields require Master's Degrees which means an additional two years of Education.
In my case, once I graduated, I got a good job at Beth Israel Medial Center. After a few years, my employer paid for me to attend Graduate School at NYU. These types of programs no longer exist. Before I returned to college, I worked at the NY Telephone Co., they also had a program where employees could go to school for free.
I guess what I am trying to point out is that the world has changed in regards to how students and employees are viewed over the past 40 - 50 years. Corporate greed has taken over. No longer are employees encouraged and assisted in improving themselves, now it is about the bottom line and showing profits for shareholders.
My wife and I are in our 70's, raising our granddaughter who will be a freshman in high school in September. By the time she is ready for college, tuition will be over $70,000.00 a year. 60% of the country makes less than $50,000.00 a year. Something is very wrong here.
This problem is a lot more complicated than just St Johns or any school, it boils down to the disenfranchisement of most individuals in today's America.[/quote]
Panther, I agree with much of what you say in terms of the cost of education, and also about benefits. Most of the area's larger hospitals had a tuition reimbursement program. Beth Israel and Sinai were sister hospitals primarily because of religious affiliation and I'm not even sure if Sinai's tuition reimbursement required you to major in something related to your job.
Back when you started at BI, employee retention was much better. Generally speaking, once someone landed a good job, they would stay there longer than today. Today, it is not unusual to see qualified graduates have resumes of 8 jobs in 10 years. i always passed on such resumes, because I reasoned that with a steep learning curve by the time they are providing 100% value, they are already looking to move on to a higher paying job.
I don't know if it's a chicken and egg thing, but why would an employer pay for someone's education (at a much higher cost than 30 years ago), when that employee will take off once they have that undergrad or advanced degree. Actually, as an employee, I didn't think my graduate degree helped the hospital much, and internally questioned the wisdom of it.
No question though that the loyalty between employer and employee is shot unless employers work very hard at creating cultures where workers are valued, treated humanely, and their successes celebrated. For example, I am adamant that layoffs are destructive to employee morale, especially when companies are even minimally profitable.
Private college tuitions are just ridiculously high. Any kid paying for college via student loans (about 95%) have to make careful economic decisions about the ROI of the loan. Federally subsidized student loans directly helped private colleges attract students who otherwise would not have applied. The competitiveness among private schools caused schools to beautify campuses, erect stunning edifices, build healthclubs, coffee shops, apartment style dormitories, and many other improvements. Tuition was raised at a clip of 8% annually. Still, today, kids choosing colleges are attracted by these amenities, and most colleges would not even come close to breaking even on tuition/room and board if it were not for donations.
Last edited:
MarkRedman
Well-known member
[quote="RedStormNC" post=394706]Saw this when looking at something else on St. John's news.
Hopeful we get some great candidates to apply and choose the right one.
Job Description
[URL]https://jobs.chronicle.com/job/278370/president/?LinkSource[/URL]=PremiumListing
Leadership profile
[URL]https://www.wittkieffer.com/positionfiles/u1909334/St.[/URL]+John%27s+University+President+-+Leadership+Profile+FINAL+7.24.2020.pdf[/quote]
I hope we get some excellent candidates to choose from to fill this position. It's a tough time to be a college president. Managing the ramifications of the pandemic, deciding on an effective and safe way to deliver instruction to students, address the issue of opening dorms, trying to be fiscally responsible and maintain enrollment numbers when you partially or fully teach courses online, etc. Add to this the need to address the societal issues that have recently arisen in our nation. A formidable job, to say the least.
Lots of headaches for an incoming president. I wish the successful candidate well. I'm sure that I speak for everyone on the site when I express my hope that St John's will survive the pandemic and thrive down the road.
Hopeful we get some great candidates to apply and choose the right one.
Job Description
[URL]https://jobs.chronicle.com/job/278370/president/?LinkSource[/URL]=PremiumListing
Leadership profile
[URL]https://www.wittkieffer.com/positionfiles/u1909334/St.[/URL]+John%27s+University+President+-+Leadership+Profile+FINAL+7.24.2020.pdf[/quote]
I hope we get some excellent candidates to choose from to fill this position. It's a tough time to be a college president. Managing the ramifications of the pandemic, deciding on an effective and safe way to deliver instruction to students, address the issue of opening dorms, trying to be fiscally responsible and maintain enrollment numbers when you partially or fully teach courses online, etc. Add to this the need to address the societal issues that have recently arisen in our nation. A formidable job, to say the least.
Lots of headaches for an incoming president. I wish the successful candidate well. I'm sure that I speak for everyone on the site when I express my hope that St John's will survive the pandemic and thrive down the road.
beast of the east
Active member
[quote="MarkRedman" post=394861][quote="RedStormNC" post=394706]Saw this when looking at something else on St. John's news.
Hopeful we get some great candidates to apply and choose the right one.
Job Description
[URL]https://jobs.chronicle.com/job/278370/president/?LinkSource[/URL]=PremiumListing
Leadership profile
[URL]https://www.wittkieffer.com/positionfiles/u1909334/St.[/URL]+John%27s+University+President+-+Leadership+Profile+FINAL+7.24.2020.pdf[/quote]
I hope we get some excellent candidates to choose from to fill this position. It's a tough time to be a college president. Managing the ramifications of the pandemic, deciding on an effective and safe way to deliver instruction to students, address the issue of opening dorms, trying to be fiscally responsible and maintain enrollment numbers when you partially or fully teach courses online, etc. Add to this the need to address the societal issues that have recently arisen in our nation. A formidable job, to say the least.
Lots of headaches for an incoming president. I wish the successful candidate well. I'm sure that I speak for everyone on the site when I express my hope that St John's will survive the pandemic and thrive down the road.[/quote]
Although lots of folks are supporting an internal candidate, for all the reasons you mention and much more, the BOT needs to hire the most qualified candidate possible within their budget.
What I find really great is that there are several non Christian administrators and alumni who really value the school's Catholic Vincentian mission. The ones I know are Jewish, and have been positively impacted by working, teaching or being students at a Catholic school. In my career, I've encountered mostly extremely decent people, I have encountered some whose sense of right and wrong is limited to what they can get away with. Little of this has ever existed at St John's and when it was detected in the prior administration, no one was safe from being jettisoned.
MR, that's a great post. There are enormous challenges for St. John's to begin with, but as pointed out in your an other posts and articles, the waters are treacherous at present, and it is incumbent upon the board to find a leader who can navigate them
Given the task would not be shocked if Bobby delays his retirement a year to give the board more time to make a great decision.
Hopeful we get some great candidates to apply and choose the right one.
Job Description
[URL]https://jobs.chronicle.com/job/278370/president/?LinkSource[/URL]=PremiumListing
Leadership profile
[URL]https://www.wittkieffer.com/positionfiles/u1909334/St.[/URL]+John%27s+University+President+-+Leadership+Profile+FINAL+7.24.2020.pdf[/quote]
I hope we get some excellent candidates to choose from to fill this position. It's a tough time to be a college president. Managing the ramifications of the pandemic, deciding on an effective and safe way to deliver instruction to students, address the issue of opening dorms, trying to be fiscally responsible and maintain enrollment numbers when you partially or fully teach courses online, etc. Add to this the need to address the societal issues that have recently arisen in our nation. A formidable job, to say the least.
Lots of headaches for an incoming president. I wish the successful candidate well. I'm sure that I speak for everyone on the site when I express my hope that St John's will survive the pandemic and thrive down the road.[/quote]
Although lots of folks are supporting an internal candidate, for all the reasons you mention and much more, the BOT needs to hire the most qualified candidate possible within their budget.
What I find really great is that there are several non Christian administrators and alumni who really value the school's Catholic Vincentian mission. The ones I know are Jewish, and have been positively impacted by working, teaching or being students at a Catholic school. In my career, I've encountered mostly extremely decent people, I have encountered some whose sense of right and wrong is limited to what they can get away with. Little of this has ever existed at St John's and when it was detected in the prior administration, no one was safe from being jettisoned.
MR, that's a great post. There are enormous challenges for St. John's to begin with, but as pointed out in your an other posts and articles, the waters are treacherous at present, and it is incumbent upon the board to find a leader who can navigate them
Given the task would not be shocked if Bobby delays his retirement a year to give the board more time to make a great decision.
[quote="panther2" post=394842][quote="William T. Cicio" post=393246]I entered the school of pharmacy under the GI Bill in 1956. The then 4 yr. program cost $900.00 per year or $3,600.00 for 4 yrs and the total number of credits 160. That was the biggest bargain in my life for a wonderful Catholic education and an outstanding pharmacy education. I look at today's 6 yr. Doctorate program cost and I shudder. I truly was fortunate.[/quote]
When I decided to return to college as a 34 year old freshman in 1982, the tuition was 3,000.00 a year and stayed around that amount until I graduated in 1986. I also received Pell and TAP grants. I was working after my first semester but did not make that much money.
This means that in the 30 years between 56 and 86, the tuition may have increased fourfold. By 2006, the tuition increased to around 50,000.00 a year. This is more than 15 x what it was in 1986. Is it really worth it? I am not talking about St Johns, but any school.
I majored in Human Service and Counseling, which was part of the School of Education. At that time, there were a lot more males majoring in Education. Now, a young man thinking about getting married and raising a family can't afford to Major in Education or Social Work. Careers in both of these fields require Master's Degrees which means an additional two years of Education.
In my case, once I graduated, I got a good job at Beth Israel Medial Center. After a few years, my employer paid for me to attend Graduate School at NYU. These types of programs no longer exist. Before I returned to college, I worked at the NY Telephone Co., they also had a program where employees could go to school for free.
I guess what I am trying to point out is that the world has changed in regards to how students and employees are viewed over the past 40 - 50 years. Corporate greed has taken over. No longer are employees encouraged and assisted in improving themselves, now it is about the bottom line and showing profits for shareholders.
My wife and I are in our 70's, raising our granddaughter who will be a freshman in high school in September. By the time she is ready for college, tuition will be over $70,000.00 a year. 60% of the country makes less than $50,000.00 a year. Something is very wrong here.
This problem is a lot more complicated than just St Johns or any school, it boils down to the disenfranchisement of most individuals in today's America.[/quote]
Great points Panther and in my opinion - none are worth the price. And, in today’s environment, some corporations may be more liberal in their hiring practices - and not require that a candidate “checked the box”. Further, while $ isn’t everything, some degrees simply guarantee that you’ll never make enough to pay off a loan.
For me, I had one kid, sent her to Penn State (as an out of stater). . .she majored in Public Relations. . .making very little $ and has since gone back to her first love - Broadway and was performing on the Disney Cruise Line until the pandemic.
Fortunately, I sucked it up for 4 years and allowed her to come out with no debt. If I had to do it again - not so sure.
Better off becoming a plumber. Don’t think I’ve met one who isn’t doing well.
When I decided to return to college as a 34 year old freshman in 1982, the tuition was 3,000.00 a year and stayed around that amount until I graduated in 1986. I also received Pell and TAP grants. I was working after my first semester but did not make that much money.
This means that in the 30 years between 56 and 86, the tuition may have increased fourfold. By 2006, the tuition increased to around 50,000.00 a year. This is more than 15 x what it was in 1986. Is it really worth it? I am not talking about St Johns, but any school.
I majored in Human Service and Counseling, which was part of the School of Education. At that time, there were a lot more males majoring in Education. Now, a young man thinking about getting married and raising a family can't afford to Major in Education or Social Work. Careers in both of these fields require Master's Degrees which means an additional two years of Education.
In my case, once I graduated, I got a good job at Beth Israel Medial Center. After a few years, my employer paid for me to attend Graduate School at NYU. These types of programs no longer exist. Before I returned to college, I worked at the NY Telephone Co., they also had a program where employees could go to school for free.
I guess what I am trying to point out is that the world has changed in regards to how students and employees are viewed over the past 40 - 50 years. Corporate greed has taken over. No longer are employees encouraged and assisted in improving themselves, now it is about the bottom line and showing profits for shareholders.
My wife and I are in our 70's, raising our granddaughter who will be a freshman in high school in September. By the time she is ready for college, tuition will be over $70,000.00 a year. 60% of the country makes less than $50,000.00 a year. Something is very wrong here.
This problem is a lot more complicated than just St Johns or any school, it boils down to the disenfranchisement of most individuals in today's America.[/quote]
Great points Panther and in my opinion - none are worth the price. And, in today’s environment, some corporations may be more liberal in their hiring practices - and not require that a candidate “checked the box”. Further, while $ isn’t everything, some degrees simply guarantee that you’ll never make enough to pay off a loan.
For me, I had one kid, sent her to Penn State (as an out of stater). . .she majored in Public Relations. . .making very little $ and has since gone back to her first love - Broadway and was performing on the Disney Cruise Line until the pandemic.
Fortunately, I sucked it up for 4 years and allowed her to come out with no debt. If I had to do it again - not so sure.
Better off becoming a plumber. Don’t think I’ve met one who isn’t doing well.
Last edited:
[quote="Section3" post=394874][quote="panther2" post=394842][quote="William T. Cicio" post=393246]I entered the school of pharmacy under the GI Bill in 1956. The then 4 yr. program cost $900.00 per year or $3,600.00 for 4 yrs and the total number of credits 160. That was the biggest bargain in my life for a wonderful Catholic education and an outstanding pharmacy education. I look at today's 6 yr. Doctorate program cost and I shudder. I truly was fortunate.[/quote]
When I decided to return to college as a 34 year old freshman in 1982, the tuition was 3,000.00 a year and stayed around that amount until I graduated in 1986. I also received Pell and TAP grants. I was working after my first semester but did not make that much money.
This means that in the 30 years between 56 and 86, the tuition may have increased fourfold. By 2006, the tuition increased to around 50,000.00 a year. This is more than 15 x what it was in 1986. Is it really worth it? I am not talking about St Johns, but any school.
I majored in Human Service and Counseling, which was part of the School of Education. At that time, there were a lot more males majoring in Education. Now, a young man thinking about getting married and raising a family can't afford to Major in Education or Social Work. Careers in both of these fields require Master's Degrees which means an additional two years of Education.
In my case, once I graduated, I got a good job at Beth Israel Medial Center. After a few years, my employer paid for me to attend Graduate School at NYU. These types of programs no longer exist. Before I returned to college, I worked at the NY Telephone Co., they also had a program where employees could go to school for free.
I guess what I am trying to point out is that the world has changed in regards to how students and employees are viewed over the past 40 - 50 years. Corporate greed has taken over. No longer are employees encouraged and assisted in improving themselves, now it is about the bottom line and showing profits for shareholders.
My wife and I are in our 70's, raising our granddaughter who will be a freshman in high school in September. By the time she is ready for college, tuition will be over $70,000.00 a year. 60% of the country makes less than $50,000.00 a year. Something is very wrong here.
This problem is a lot more complicated than just St Johns or any school, it boils down to the disenfranchisement of most individuals in today's America.[/quote]
Great points Panther and in my opinion - none are worth the price. And, in today’s environment, some corporations may be more liberal in their hiring practices - and not require that a candidate “checked the box”. Further, while $ isn’t everything, some degrees simply guarantee that you’ll never make enough to pay off a loan.
For me, I had one kid, sent her to Penn State (as an out of stater). . .she majored in Public Relations. . .making very little $ and has since gone back to her first love - Broadway and was performing on the Disney Cruise Line until the pandemic.
Fortunately, I sucked it up for 4 years and allowed her to come out with no debt. If I had to do it again - not so sure.
Better off becoming a plumber. Don’t think I’ve met one who isn’t doing well. [/quote]
Section 3,
About eight years ago I needed some muscle to help with heavy yard work at my home upstate. I found a guy at the local garage where day laborers gathered to find work and he helped me multiple times. I have enough Spanish and he had enough English for me to get his history.
His mom had a green card and lived in New Jersey. She developed Alzheimer's and could not and would never pass the citizenship test. He was out of luck but not for the first time.
He had been a plumber at a bottling plant in the capital of Honduras (I forget if it was coke or pepsi) and the cartels came in to his neighborhood and demanded almost all his income if he wanted to stay alive.
Bottom line, master plumber with no legal status and maybe no longer here.
When I decided to return to college as a 34 year old freshman in 1982, the tuition was 3,000.00 a year and stayed around that amount until I graduated in 1986. I also received Pell and TAP grants. I was working after my first semester but did not make that much money.
This means that in the 30 years between 56 and 86, the tuition may have increased fourfold. By 2006, the tuition increased to around 50,000.00 a year. This is more than 15 x what it was in 1986. Is it really worth it? I am not talking about St Johns, but any school.
I majored in Human Service and Counseling, which was part of the School of Education. At that time, there were a lot more males majoring in Education. Now, a young man thinking about getting married and raising a family can't afford to Major in Education or Social Work. Careers in both of these fields require Master's Degrees which means an additional two years of Education.
In my case, once I graduated, I got a good job at Beth Israel Medial Center. After a few years, my employer paid for me to attend Graduate School at NYU. These types of programs no longer exist. Before I returned to college, I worked at the NY Telephone Co., they also had a program where employees could go to school for free.
I guess what I am trying to point out is that the world has changed in regards to how students and employees are viewed over the past 40 - 50 years. Corporate greed has taken over. No longer are employees encouraged and assisted in improving themselves, now it is about the bottom line and showing profits for shareholders.
My wife and I are in our 70's, raising our granddaughter who will be a freshman in high school in September. By the time she is ready for college, tuition will be over $70,000.00 a year. 60% of the country makes less than $50,000.00 a year. Something is very wrong here.
This problem is a lot more complicated than just St Johns or any school, it boils down to the disenfranchisement of most individuals in today's America.[/quote]
Great points Panther and in my opinion - none are worth the price. And, in today’s environment, some corporations may be more liberal in their hiring practices - and not require that a candidate “checked the box”. Further, while $ isn’t everything, some degrees simply guarantee that you’ll never make enough to pay off a loan.
For me, I had one kid, sent her to Penn State (as an out of stater). . .she majored in Public Relations. . .making very little $ and has since gone back to her first love - Broadway and was performing on the Disney Cruise Line until the pandemic.
Fortunately, I sucked it up for 4 years and allowed her to come out with no debt. If I had to do it again - not so sure.
Better off becoming a plumber. Don’t think I’ve met one who isn’t doing well.
[/quote]Section 3,
About eight years ago I needed some muscle to help with heavy yard work at my home upstate. I found a guy at the local garage where day laborers gathered to find work and he helped me multiple times. I have enough Spanish and he had enough English for me to get his history.
His mom had a green card and lived in New Jersey. She developed Alzheimer's and could not and would never pass the citizenship test. He was out of luck but not for the first time.
He had been a plumber at a bottling plant in the capital of Honduras (I forget if it was coke or pepsi) and the cartels came in to his neighborhood and demanded almost all his income if he wanted to stay alive.
Bottom line, master plumber with no legal status and maybe no longer here.
[quote="Beast of the East" post=394850][quote="panther2" post=394842][quote="William T. Cicio" post=393246]I entered the school of pharmacy under the GI Bill in 1956. The then 4 yr. program cost $900.00 per year or $3,600.00 for 4 yrs and the total number of credits 160. That was the biggest bargain in my life for a wonderful Catholic education and an outstanding pharmacy education. I look at today's 6 yr. Doctorate program cost and I shudder. I truly was fortunate.[/quote]
When I decided to return to college as a 34 year old freshman in 1982, the tuition was 3,000.00 a year and stayed around that amount until I graduated in 1986. I also received Pell and TAP grants. I was working after my first semester but did not make that much money.
This means that in the 30 years between 56 and 86, the tuition may have increased fourfold. By 2006, the tuition increased to around 50,000.00 a year. This is more than 15 x what it was in 1986. Is it really worth it? I am not talking about St Johns, but any school.
I majored in Human Service and Counseling, which was part of the School of Education. At that time, there were a lot more males majoring in Education. Now, a young man thinking about getting married and raising a family can't afford to Major in Education or Social Work. Careers in both of these fields require Master's Degrees which means an additional two years of Education.
In my case, once I graduated, I got a good job at Beth Israel Medial Center. After a few years, my employer paid for me to attend Graduate School at NYU. These types of programs no longer exist. Before I returned to college, I worked at the NY Telephone Co., they also had a program where employees could go to school for free.
I guess what I am trying to point out is that the world has changed in regards to how students and employees are viewed over the past 40 - 50 years. Corporate greed has taken over. No longer are employees encouraged and assisted in improving themselves, now it is about the bottom line and showing profits for shareholders.
My wife and I are in our 70's, raising our granddaughter who will be a freshman in high school in September. By the time she is ready for college, tuition will be over $70,000.00 a year. 60% of the country makes less than $50,000.00 a year. Something is very wrong here.
This problem is a lot more complicated than just St Johns or any school, it boils down to the disenfranchisement of most individuals in today's America.[/quote]
Panther, I agree with much of what you say in terms of the cost of education, and also about benefits. Most of the area's larger hospitals had a tuition reimbursement program. Beth Israel and Sinai were sister hospitals primarily because of religious affiliation and I'm not even sure if Sinai's tuition reimbursement required you to major in something related to your job.
Back when you started at BI, employee retention was much better. Generally speaking, once someone landed a good job, they would stay there longer than today. Today, it is not unusual to see qualified graduates have resumes of 8 jobs in 10 years. i always passed on such resumes, because I reasoned that with a steep learning curve by the time they are providing 100% value, they are already looking to move on to a higher paying job.
I don't know if it's a chicken and egg thing, but why would an employer pay for someone's education (at a much higher cost than 30 years ago), when that employee will take off once they have that undergrad or advanced degree. Actually, as an employee, I didn't think my graduate degree helped the hospital much, and internally questioned the wisdom of it.
No question though that the loyalty between employer and employee is shot unless employers work very hard at creating cultures where workers are valued, treated humanely, and their successes celebrated. For example, I am adamant that layoffs are destructive to employee morale, especially when companies are even minimally profitable.
Private college tuitions are just ridiculously high. Any kid paying for college via student loans (about 95%) have to make careful economic decisions about the ROI of the loan. Federally subsidized student loans directly helped private colleges attract students who otherwise would not have applied. The competitiveness among private schools caused schools to beautify campuses, erect stunning edifices, build healthclubs, coffee shops, apartment style dormitories, and many other improvements. Tuition was raised at a clip of 8% annually. Still, today, kids choosing colleges are attracted by these amenities, and most colleges would not even come close to breaking even on tuition/room and board if it were not for donations.[/quote] employers should structure higher education as a forgivable loan 10 year vest or even 15 year vest. You stay at your employer 3 years you owe 70% back etc
When I decided to return to college as a 34 year old freshman in 1982, the tuition was 3,000.00 a year and stayed around that amount until I graduated in 1986. I also received Pell and TAP grants. I was working after my first semester but did not make that much money.
This means that in the 30 years between 56 and 86, the tuition may have increased fourfold. By 2006, the tuition increased to around 50,000.00 a year. This is more than 15 x what it was in 1986. Is it really worth it? I am not talking about St Johns, but any school.
I majored in Human Service and Counseling, which was part of the School of Education. At that time, there were a lot more males majoring in Education. Now, a young man thinking about getting married and raising a family can't afford to Major in Education or Social Work. Careers in both of these fields require Master's Degrees which means an additional two years of Education.
In my case, once I graduated, I got a good job at Beth Israel Medial Center. After a few years, my employer paid for me to attend Graduate School at NYU. These types of programs no longer exist. Before I returned to college, I worked at the NY Telephone Co., they also had a program where employees could go to school for free.
I guess what I am trying to point out is that the world has changed in regards to how students and employees are viewed over the past 40 - 50 years. Corporate greed has taken over. No longer are employees encouraged and assisted in improving themselves, now it is about the bottom line and showing profits for shareholders.
My wife and I are in our 70's, raising our granddaughter who will be a freshman in high school in September. By the time she is ready for college, tuition will be over $70,000.00 a year. 60% of the country makes less than $50,000.00 a year. Something is very wrong here.
This problem is a lot more complicated than just St Johns or any school, it boils down to the disenfranchisement of most individuals in today's America.[/quote]
Panther, I agree with much of what you say in terms of the cost of education, and also about benefits. Most of the area's larger hospitals had a tuition reimbursement program. Beth Israel and Sinai were sister hospitals primarily because of religious affiliation and I'm not even sure if Sinai's tuition reimbursement required you to major in something related to your job.
Back when you started at BI, employee retention was much better. Generally speaking, once someone landed a good job, they would stay there longer than today. Today, it is not unusual to see qualified graduates have resumes of 8 jobs in 10 years. i always passed on such resumes, because I reasoned that with a steep learning curve by the time they are providing 100% value, they are already looking to move on to a higher paying job.
I don't know if it's a chicken and egg thing, but why would an employer pay for someone's education (at a much higher cost than 30 years ago), when that employee will take off once they have that undergrad or advanced degree. Actually, as an employee, I didn't think my graduate degree helped the hospital much, and internally questioned the wisdom of it.
No question though that the loyalty between employer and employee is shot unless employers work very hard at creating cultures where workers are valued, treated humanely, and their successes celebrated. For example, I am adamant that layoffs are destructive to employee morale, especially when companies are even minimally profitable.
Private college tuitions are just ridiculously high. Any kid paying for college via student loans (about 95%) have to make careful economic decisions about the ROI of the loan. Federally subsidized student loans directly helped private colleges attract students who otherwise would not have applied. The competitiveness among private schools caused schools to beautify campuses, erect stunning edifices, build healthclubs, coffee shops, apartment style dormitories, and many other improvements. Tuition was raised at a clip of 8% annually. Still, today, kids choosing colleges are attracted by these amenities, and most colleges would not even come close to breaking even on tuition/room and board if it were not for donations.[/quote] employers should structure higher education as a forgivable loan 10 year vest or even 15 year vest. You stay at your employer 3 years you owe 70% back etc
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Thanks for all the insights and commentary.
Not a simple situation but my observations:
As a boy in the 1950s high school was still important and college and or graduate school were wow! Such big deals and clear paths to a career and good salary.
Not true any more - college and beyond do not guarantee a livelihood or job satisfaction.
Some young folks are better with a trade or business and skipping formal education - or maybe just having some community college study which still has a reasonable cost. Or let the government, military or corporation subsidize the studies.
All the best
Not a simple situation but my observations:
As a boy in the 1950s high school was still important and college and or graduate school were wow! Such big deals and clear paths to a career and good salary.
Not true any more - college and beyond do not guarantee a livelihood or job satisfaction.
Some young folks are better with a trade or business and skipping formal education - or maybe just having some community college study which still has a reasonable cost. Or let the government, military or corporation subsidize the studies.
All the best
14 colleges in NY likely to ‘perish’ in coronavirus pandemic, new analysis says
[URL]https://www.syracuse.com/coron...avirus-pandemic-new-analysis-says.html?fbclid[/URL]=IwAR3bAWHEER-md-9_CDBVnEFGoi7Vnm0X1RdfGmlNq_9wRLOOtO_29Ex3Xe0
[URL]https://www.syracuse.com/coron...avirus-pandemic-new-analysis-says.html?fbclid[/URL]=IwAR3bAWHEER-md-9_CDBVnEFGoi7Vnm0X1RdfGmlNq_9wRLOOtO_29Ex3Xe0
[quote="mjmaherjr" post=394892][quote="Beast of the East" post=394850][quote="panther2" post=394842][quote="William T. Cicio" post=393246]I entered the school of pharmacy under the GI Bill in 1956. The then 4 yr. program cost $900.00 per year or $3,600.00 for 4 yrs and the total number of credits 160. That was the biggest bargain in my life for a wonderful Catholic education and an outstanding pharmacy education. I look at today's 6 yr. Doctorate program cost and I shudder. I truly was fortunate.[/quote]
When I decided to return to college as a 34 year old freshman in 1982, the tuition was 3,000.00 a year and stayed around that amount until I graduated in 1986. I also received Pell and TAP grants. I was working after my first semester but did not make that much money.
This means that in the 30 years between 56 and 86, the tuition may have increased fourfold. By 2006, the tuition increased to around 50,000.00 a year. This is more than 15 x what it was in 1986. Is it really worth it? I am not talking about St Johns, but any school.
I majored in Human Service and Counseling, which was part of the School of Education. At that time, there were a lot more males majoring in Education. Now, a young man thinking about getting married and raising a family can't afford to Major in Education or Social Work. Careers in both of these fields require Master's Degrees which means an additional two years of Education.
In my case, once I graduated, I got a good job at Beth Israel Medial Center. After a few years, my employer paid for me to attend Graduate School at NYU. These types of programs no longer exist. Before I returned to college, I worked at the NY Telephone Co., they also had a program where employees could go to school for free.
I guess what I am trying to point out is that the world has changed in regards to how students and employees are viewed over the past 40 - 50 years. Corporate greed has taken over. No longer are employees encouraged and assisted in improving themselves, now it is about the bottom line and showing profits for shareholders.
My wife and I are in our 70's, raising our granddaughter who will be a freshman in high school in September. By the time she is ready for college, tuition will be over $70,000.00 a year. 60% of the country makes less than $50,000.00 a year. Something is very wrong here.
This problem is a lot more complicated than just St Johns or any school, it boils down to the disenfranchisement of most individuals in today's America.[/quote]
Panther, I agree with much of what you say in terms of the cost of education, and also about benefits. Most of the area's larger hospitals had a tuition reimbursement program. Beth Israel and Sinai were sister hospitals primarily because of religious affiliation and I'm not even sure if Sinai's tuition reimbursement required you to major in something related to your job.
Back when you started at BI, employee retention was much better. Generally speaking, once someone landed a good job, they would stay there longer than today. Today, it is not unusual to see qualified graduates have resumes of 8 jobs in 10 years. i always passed on such resumes, because I reasoned that with a steep learning curve by the time they are providing 100% value, they are already looking to move on to a higher paying job.
I don't know if it's a chicken and egg thing, but why would an employer pay for someone's education (at a much higher cost than 30 years ago), when that employee will take off once they have that undergrad or advanced degree. Actually, as an employee, I didn't think my graduate degree helped the hospital much, and internally questioned the wisdom of it.
No question though that the loyalty between employer and employee is shot unless employers work very hard at creating cultures where workers are valued, treated humanely, and their successes celebrated. For example, I am adamant that layoffs are destructive to employee morale, especially when companies are even minimally profitable.
Private college tuitions are just ridiculously high. Any kid paying for college via student loans (about 95%) have to make careful economic decisions about the ROI of the loan. Federally subsidized student loans directly helped private colleges attract students who otherwise would not have applied. The competitiveness among private schools caused schools to beautify campuses, erect stunning edifices, build healthclubs, coffee shops, apartment style dormitories, and many other improvements. Tuition was raised at a clip of 8% annually. Still, today, kids choosing colleges are attracted by these amenities, and most colleges would not even come close to breaking even on tuition/room and board if it were not for donations.[/quote] employers should structure higher education as a forgivable loan 10 year vest or even 15 year vest. You stay at your employer 3 years you owe 70% back etc[/quote]
Mike I agree with you but it will never happen. Corporate greed will not allow it. That is why there is so much outsourcing today.
I worked in the Business Service Center at the Telephone company for four years before I started school at St Johns. If you call the department where I used to work, you end up speaking to someone in the Philippines who is probably making less money now than I made 40 years ago.
It used to be that companies encouraged their workers to further their education and upgrade their skills. Now, because of Corporate greed, it is about maximizing profits for stock holders. Damn near everything we buy is made in a foreign country where workers are taken advantage of.
When I decided to return to college as a 34 year old freshman in 1982, the tuition was 3,000.00 a year and stayed around that amount until I graduated in 1986. I also received Pell and TAP grants. I was working after my first semester but did not make that much money.
This means that in the 30 years between 56 and 86, the tuition may have increased fourfold. By 2006, the tuition increased to around 50,000.00 a year. This is more than 15 x what it was in 1986. Is it really worth it? I am not talking about St Johns, but any school.
I majored in Human Service and Counseling, which was part of the School of Education. At that time, there were a lot more males majoring in Education. Now, a young man thinking about getting married and raising a family can't afford to Major in Education or Social Work. Careers in both of these fields require Master's Degrees which means an additional two years of Education.
In my case, once I graduated, I got a good job at Beth Israel Medial Center. After a few years, my employer paid for me to attend Graduate School at NYU. These types of programs no longer exist. Before I returned to college, I worked at the NY Telephone Co., they also had a program where employees could go to school for free.
I guess what I am trying to point out is that the world has changed in regards to how students and employees are viewed over the past 40 - 50 years. Corporate greed has taken over. No longer are employees encouraged and assisted in improving themselves, now it is about the bottom line and showing profits for shareholders.
My wife and I are in our 70's, raising our granddaughter who will be a freshman in high school in September. By the time she is ready for college, tuition will be over $70,000.00 a year. 60% of the country makes less than $50,000.00 a year. Something is very wrong here.
This problem is a lot more complicated than just St Johns or any school, it boils down to the disenfranchisement of most individuals in today's America.[/quote]
Panther, I agree with much of what you say in terms of the cost of education, and also about benefits. Most of the area's larger hospitals had a tuition reimbursement program. Beth Israel and Sinai were sister hospitals primarily because of religious affiliation and I'm not even sure if Sinai's tuition reimbursement required you to major in something related to your job.
Back when you started at BI, employee retention was much better. Generally speaking, once someone landed a good job, they would stay there longer than today. Today, it is not unusual to see qualified graduates have resumes of 8 jobs in 10 years. i always passed on such resumes, because I reasoned that with a steep learning curve by the time they are providing 100% value, they are already looking to move on to a higher paying job.
I don't know if it's a chicken and egg thing, but why would an employer pay for someone's education (at a much higher cost than 30 years ago), when that employee will take off once they have that undergrad or advanced degree. Actually, as an employee, I didn't think my graduate degree helped the hospital much, and internally questioned the wisdom of it.
No question though that the loyalty between employer and employee is shot unless employers work very hard at creating cultures where workers are valued, treated humanely, and their successes celebrated. For example, I am adamant that layoffs are destructive to employee morale, especially when companies are even minimally profitable.
Private college tuitions are just ridiculously high. Any kid paying for college via student loans (about 95%) have to make careful economic decisions about the ROI of the loan. Federally subsidized student loans directly helped private colleges attract students who otherwise would not have applied. The competitiveness among private schools caused schools to beautify campuses, erect stunning edifices, build healthclubs, coffee shops, apartment style dormitories, and many other improvements. Tuition was raised at a clip of 8% annually. Still, today, kids choosing colleges are attracted by these amenities, and most colleges would not even come close to breaking even on tuition/room and board if it were not for donations.[/quote] employers should structure higher education as a forgivable loan 10 year vest or even 15 year vest. You stay at your employer 3 years you owe 70% back etc[/quote]
Mike I agree with you but it will never happen. Corporate greed will not allow it. That is why there is so much outsourcing today.
I worked in the Business Service Center at the Telephone company for four years before I started school at St Johns. If you call the department where I used to work, you end up speaking to someone in the Philippines who is probably making less money now than I made 40 years ago.
It used to be that companies encouraged their workers to further their education and upgrade their skills. Now, because of Corporate greed, it is about maximizing profits for stock holders. Damn near everything we buy is made in a foreign country where workers are taken advantage of.
Last edited:
beast of the east
Active member
[quote="panther2" post=394916][quote="mjmaherjr" post=394892][quote="Beast of the East" post=394850][quote="panther2" post=394842][quote="William T. Cicio" post=393246]I entered the school of pharmacy under the GI Bill in 1956. The then 4 yr. program cost $900.00 per year or $3,600.00 for 4 yrs and the total number of credits 160. That was the biggest bargain in my life for a wonderful Catholic education and an outstanding pharmacy education. I look at today's 6 yr. Doctorate program cost and I shudder. I truly was fortunate.[/quote]
When I decided to return to college as a 34 year old freshman in 1982, the tuition was 3,000.00 a year and stayed around that amount until I graduated in 1986. I also received Pell and TAP grants. I was working after my first semester but did not make that much money.
This means that in the 30 years between 56 and 86, the tuition may have increased fourfold. By 2006, the tuition increased to around 50,000.00 a year. This is more than 15 x what it was in 1986. Is it really worth it? I am not talking about St Johns, but any school.
I majored in Human Service and Counseling, which was part of the School of Education. At that time, there were a lot more males majoring in Education. Now, a young man thinking about getting married and raising a family can't afford to Major in Education or Social Work. Careers in both of these fields require Master's Degrees which means an additional two years of Education.
In my case, once I graduated, I got a good job at Beth Israel Medial Center. After a few years, my employer paid for me to attend Graduate School at NYU. These types of programs no longer exist. Before I returned to college, I worked at the NY Telephone Co., they also had a program where employees could go to school for free.
I guess what I am trying to point out is that the world has changed in regards to how students and employees are viewed over the past 40 - 50 years. Corporate greed has taken over. No longer are employees encouraged and assisted in improving themselves, now it is about the bottom line and showing profits for shareholders.
My wife and I are in our 70's, raising our granddaughter who will be a freshman in high school in September. By the time she is ready for college, tuition will be over $70,000.00 a year. 60% of the country makes less than $50,000.00 a year. Something is very wrong here.
This problem is a lot more complicated than just St Johns or any school, it boils down to the disenfranchisement of most individuals in today's America.[/quote]
Panther, I agree with much of what you say in terms of the cost of education, and also about benefits. Most of the area's larger hospitals had a tuition reimbursement program. Beth Israel and Sinai were sister hospitals primarily because of religious affiliation and I'm not even sure if Sinai's tuition reimbursement required you to major in something related to your job.
Back when you started at BI, employee retention was much better. Generally speaking, once someone landed a good job, they would stay there longer than today. Today, it is not unusual to see qualified graduates have resumes of 8 jobs in 10 years. i always passed on such resumes, because I reasoned that with a steep learning curve by the time they are providing 100% value, they are already looking to move on to a higher paying job.
I don't know if it's a chicken and egg thing, but why would an employer pay for someone's education (at a much higher cost than 30 years ago), when that employee will take off once they have that undergrad or advanced degree. Actually, as an employee, I didn't think my graduate degree helped the hospital much, and internally questioned the wisdom of it.
No question though that the loyalty between employer and employee is shot unless employers work very hard at creating cultures where workers are valued, treated humanely, and their successes celebrated. For example, I am adamant that layoffs are destructive to employee morale, especially when companies are even minimally profitable.
Private college tuitions are just ridiculously high. Any kid paying for college via student loans (about 95%) have to make careful economic decisions about the ROI of the loan. Federally subsidized student loans directly helped private colleges attract students who otherwise would not have applied. The competitiveness among private schools caused schools to beautify campuses, erect stunning edifices, build healthclubs, coffee shops, apartment style dormitories, and many other improvements. Tuition was raised at a clip of 8% annually. Still, today, kids choosing colleges are attracted by these amenities, and most colleges would not even come close to breaking even on tuition/room and board if it were not for donations.[/quote] employers should structure higher education as a forgivable loan 10 year vest or even 15 year vest. You stay at your employer 3 years you owe 70% back etc[/quote]
Mike I agree with you but it will never happen. Corporate greed will not allow it. That is why there is so much outsourcing today.
I worked in the Business Service Center at the Telephone company for four years before I started school at St Johns. If you call the department where I used to work, you end up speaking to someone in the Philippines who is probably making less money now than I made 40 years ago.
It used to be that companies encouraged their workers to further their education and upgrade their skills. Now, because of Corporate greed, it is about maximizing profits for stock holders. Damn near everything we buy is made in a foreign country where workers are taken advantage of.[/quote]
There is a reality that the workforce is now global. Those who are interested in global economic equality should be somewhat pleased. If you are interested in America first, then there should be restrictions on companies that do business in the US and the percentage of foreign workers.
Nearly all software development companies do off shore development. Everyone knows that millions of software developers from India are now doing work in the US. It has literally created a modern metropolis in places like Mumbai. The Philippines, Mexico, Costa Rica, Korea, Central Europe (CZR, Poland in particular) , Russia, Ukraine, etc.) and many other places are emerging as tech centers. It's not just corporate greed. It's what you have to do to survive.
Call centers are almost all outsourced. We know that and it's horrible when you need assistance.
I don't know what your answer would be to "corporate greed". Corporations don't have a responsibility to hire people. They exist to deliver high quality products and services at the lowest possible cost. Although it is positioned as a partisan issue, just look at the CEO's of leading tech firms who are Democratic supporters - Bezos, Zuckerberg, Sundar Pichai of Google, etc. They all manufacture out of the US, and have huge tech teams outside of the US. Raising corporate taxes won't solve the problem either, if it is a problem at all. Corporations will simply keep wages static, reduce workforce, and outsource even more.
There are certain realities. Our workforce is now much more mobile. Many companies are nearly 100% virtual with people working from home, and that was before the pandemic. The population is shifting to warmer, lower cost climates, some with zero state income tax (Texas, Florida). You can earn a good salary, buy a house much more cheaply, pay less for utilities such as electricity, and live in low crime areas. Many redmen.com'ers have vacated NYC a long time ago, and that will continue.
On the subject of education costs, the buyer should beware. Our CUNY and SUNY system has some very fine schools that cost a fraction of private tuitions, Any kid saddling himself with 6 figure loans without a great plan to repay it is deluding himself.
Sad state. but relaity
When I decided to return to college as a 34 year old freshman in 1982, the tuition was 3,000.00 a year and stayed around that amount until I graduated in 1986. I also received Pell and TAP grants. I was working after my first semester but did not make that much money.
This means that in the 30 years between 56 and 86, the tuition may have increased fourfold. By 2006, the tuition increased to around 50,000.00 a year. This is more than 15 x what it was in 1986. Is it really worth it? I am not talking about St Johns, but any school.
I majored in Human Service and Counseling, which was part of the School of Education. At that time, there were a lot more males majoring in Education. Now, a young man thinking about getting married and raising a family can't afford to Major in Education or Social Work. Careers in both of these fields require Master's Degrees which means an additional two years of Education.
In my case, once I graduated, I got a good job at Beth Israel Medial Center. After a few years, my employer paid for me to attend Graduate School at NYU. These types of programs no longer exist. Before I returned to college, I worked at the NY Telephone Co., they also had a program where employees could go to school for free.
I guess what I am trying to point out is that the world has changed in regards to how students and employees are viewed over the past 40 - 50 years. Corporate greed has taken over. No longer are employees encouraged and assisted in improving themselves, now it is about the bottom line and showing profits for shareholders.
My wife and I are in our 70's, raising our granddaughter who will be a freshman in high school in September. By the time she is ready for college, tuition will be over $70,000.00 a year. 60% of the country makes less than $50,000.00 a year. Something is very wrong here.
This problem is a lot more complicated than just St Johns or any school, it boils down to the disenfranchisement of most individuals in today's America.[/quote]
Panther, I agree with much of what you say in terms of the cost of education, and also about benefits. Most of the area's larger hospitals had a tuition reimbursement program. Beth Israel and Sinai were sister hospitals primarily because of religious affiliation and I'm not even sure if Sinai's tuition reimbursement required you to major in something related to your job.
Back when you started at BI, employee retention was much better. Generally speaking, once someone landed a good job, they would stay there longer than today. Today, it is not unusual to see qualified graduates have resumes of 8 jobs in 10 years. i always passed on such resumes, because I reasoned that with a steep learning curve by the time they are providing 100% value, they are already looking to move on to a higher paying job.
I don't know if it's a chicken and egg thing, but why would an employer pay for someone's education (at a much higher cost than 30 years ago), when that employee will take off once they have that undergrad or advanced degree. Actually, as an employee, I didn't think my graduate degree helped the hospital much, and internally questioned the wisdom of it.
No question though that the loyalty between employer and employee is shot unless employers work very hard at creating cultures where workers are valued, treated humanely, and their successes celebrated. For example, I am adamant that layoffs are destructive to employee morale, especially when companies are even minimally profitable.
Private college tuitions are just ridiculously high. Any kid paying for college via student loans (about 95%) have to make careful economic decisions about the ROI of the loan. Federally subsidized student loans directly helped private colleges attract students who otherwise would not have applied. The competitiveness among private schools caused schools to beautify campuses, erect stunning edifices, build healthclubs, coffee shops, apartment style dormitories, and many other improvements. Tuition was raised at a clip of 8% annually. Still, today, kids choosing colleges are attracted by these amenities, and most colleges would not even come close to breaking even on tuition/room and board if it were not for donations.[/quote] employers should structure higher education as a forgivable loan 10 year vest or even 15 year vest. You stay at your employer 3 years you owe 70% back etc[/quote]
Mike I agree with you but it will never happen. Corporate greed will not allow it. That is why there is so much outsourcing today.
I worked in the Business Service Center at the Telephone company for four years before I started school at St Johns. If you call the department where I used to work, you end up speaking to someone in the Philippines who is probably making less money now than I made 40 years ago.
It used to be that companies encouraged their workers to further their education and upgrade their skills. Now, because of Corporate greed, it is about maximizing profits for stock holders. Damn near everything we buy is made in a foreign country where workers are taken advantage of.[/quote]
There is a reality that the workforce is now global. Those who are interested in global economic equality should be somewhat pleased. If you are interested in America first, then there should be restrictions on companies that do business in the US and the percentage of foreign workers.
Nearly all software development companies do off shore development. Everyone knows that millions of software developers from India are now doing work in the US. It has literally created a modern metropolis in places like Mumbai. The Philippines, Mexico, Costa Rica, Korea, Central Europe (CZR, Poland in particular) , Russia, Ukraine, etc.) and many other places are emerging as tech centers. It's not just corporate greed. It's what you have to do to survive.
Call centers are almost all outsourced. We know that and it's horrible when you need assistance.
I don't know what your answer would be to "corporate greed". Corporations don't have a responsibility to hire people. They exist to deliver high quality products and services at the lowest possible cost. Although it is positioned as a partisan issue, just look at the CEO's of leading tech firms who are Democratic supporters - Bezos, Zuckerberg, Sundar Pichai of Google, etc. They all manufacture out of the US, and have huge tech teams outside of the US. Raising corporate taxes won't solve the problem either, if it is a problem at all. Corporations will simply keep wages static, reduce workforce, and outsource even more.
There are certain realities. Our workforce is now much more mobile. Many companies are nearly 100% virtual with people working from home, and that was before the pandemic. The population is shifting to warmer, lower cost climates, some with zero state income tax (Texas, Florida). You can earn a good salary, buy a house much more cheaply, pay less for utilities such as electricity, and live in low crime areas. Many redmen.com'ers have vacated NYC a long time ago, and that will continue.
On the subject of education costs, the buyer should beware. Our CUNY and SUNY system has some very fine schools that cost a fraction of private tuitions, Any kid saddling himself with 6 figure loans without a great plan to repay it is deluding himself.
Sad state. but relaity
What I always found telling is how many grey haired alums post on Redmen.com but I am unaware of any who have had a son or daughter graduate from St. John’s.
The only poster I know whose son/ daughter attended StJ’s transferred.
Seemingly the school failed to advance during the Harrington era.
The only poster I know whose son/ daughter attended StJ’s transferred.
Seemingly the school failed to advance during the Harrington era.
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JohnnyFever
Active member
My uncle went to SJ in the late 70's and he paid for it with a summer job. My saving grace was getting into the 10 yr loan forgiveness program and I'm about 4-5 yrs in. It allows me to pay $360 or so instead of $1k a month. If I was paying the $1k per month no way I'd be able to even save for a house right now. Add to that how insane cost of living and real estate is right now. My gf and I were looking at houses on LI in the high $300k range...nothing crazy just small capes, ranches, etc. in decent areas with decent schools. Put in several offers on houses listed at $350 or $360k. Every single one turned into a bidding war with 20 people and they ended up selling for $400-410k. For a starter home. Now, keep in mind my parents bought my house in a nice area with great schools for 40k UNDER asking about 35 yrs ago! I used to make fun of people moving to the South since I really do love NY and we've been here since my ancestors came over in 1913 to Ellis Island. But being an adult now I understand. 14k taxes vs. 2k. Housing is $200k for a big beautiful house and tons of land vs. $800k for the same here. Being a young adult this day in age is kinda crazy.
[quote="otis" post=394931]What I always found telling is how many grey haired alums post on Redmen.com but I am unaware of any who have had a son or daughter graduate from St. John’s.
The only poster I know whose son/ daughter attended StJ’s transferred.
Seemingly the school failed to advance during the Harrington era.[/quote]
You can count me in that group. 8 years ago, my son had to make a college choice. I asked him to spreadsheet the important factors to him in choosing a school. They included academics, school reputation, degree value, cost of attending, campus atmosphere etc. St. John’s originally wasn’t considered. After hearing me ask him to reconsider, they were included. They finished dead last, by a mile. In basketball terms, it was the equivalent of having an 0-18 Big East season. (FWIW, Purdue won, and he loved his 4 years spent there).
For law school, the same result. (Loyola University in New Orleans won. He enjoyed his 3 years in NOLA, but was happy to leave after graduating in May). Now on for one more year in a Masters degree program, LLM in taxation. This was strictly an economic decision. He was accepted by Northwestern and the University of Florida. Both tax programs are ranked #3 in the country, per US News and World Report. The difference? Even with a 30k scholarship, Northwestern still would cost 47k. Florida offered him instate Florida tuition, about 20k for the year. The decision became easy. St. John’s doesn’t offer an LLM tax program.
The only poster I know whose son/ daughter attended StJ’s transferred.
Seemingly the school failed to advance during the Harrington era.[/quote]
You can count me in that group. 8 years ago, my son had to make a college choice. I asked him to spreadsheet the important factors to him in choosing a school. They included academics, school reputation, degree value, cost of attending, campus atmosphere etc. St. John’s originally wasn’t considered. After hearing me ask him to reconsider, they were included. They finished dead last, by a mile. In basketball terms, it was the equivalent of having an 0-18 Big East season. (FWIW, Purdue won, and he loved his 4 years spent there).
For law school, the same result. (Loyola University in New Orleans won. He enjoyed his 3 years in NOLA, but was happy to leave after graduating in May). Now on for one more year in a Masters degree program, LLM in taxation. This was strictly an economic decision. He was accepted by Northwestern and the University of Florida. Both tax programs are ranked #3 in the country, per US News and World Report. The difference? Even with a 30k scholarship, Northwestern still would cost 47k. Florida offered him instate Florida tuition, about 20k for the year. The decision became easy. St. John’s doesn’t offer an LLM tax program.