(POST GAME) Rider, Tue. Dec. 8, 7p, CBSSN / 570 AM WMCA

[quote="MJDinkins" post=406974][quote="Ray Morgan" post=406960]A few observations.
1. If Moore was brought here in part to be a rim protector, I'm not seeing it. More minutes for Roberts? Not surprised that CMA wants that.

2. Cole is the epitome of a rhythm shooter. He has been feast or famine. He finds ways to score, but is not explosive going to the rim. The polar opposite of the wings we usually have. After countless years having the Dom Pointer type of explosive athlete but limited offensively, I like having the type of shooter that can get hot and win games.[/quote]

I knew from the handful of JUCO games I witnessed of Moore that he wasn't exactly a rim protector. I learned years ago that height doesn't automatically make one a legit or true shot blocker. Let's say that fits Moore like a glove. Unfortunately, his overall defense is sort of porous at this juncture.

As far as Cole.... This is why it's rather amusing when some folks are so quick to write off players. I suspect Cole will have a few more games like tonight as the season progresses.[/quote]

Yo wrote the same thing about Cole in the game thread. I would hardly say that Cole getting hit for a few minutes against the likes of Rider has silenced the nay sayers. Still strikes me as Avery Patterson. We shall see.
 
[quote="Boo Harvey" post=406983][quote="MJDinkins" post=406974][quote="Ray Morgan" post=406960]A few observations.
1. If Moore was brought here in part to be a rim protector, I'm not seeing it. More minutes for Roberts? Not surprised that CMA wants that.

2. Cole is the epitome of a rhythm shooter. He has been feast or famine. He finds ways to score, but is not explosive going to the rim. The polar opposite of the wings we usually have. After countless years having the Dom Pointer type of explosive athlete but limited offensively, I like having the type of shooter that can get hot and win games.[/quote]

I knew from the handful of JUCO games I witnessed of Moore that he wasn't exactly a rim protector. I learned years ago that height doesn't automatically make one a legit or true shot blocker. Let's say that fits Moore like a glove. Unfortunately, his overall defense is sort of porous at this juncture.

As far as Cole.... This is why it's rather amusing when some folks are so quick to write off players. I suspect Cole will have a few more games like tonight as the season progresses.[/quote]

Yo wrote the same thing about Cole in the game thread. I would hardly say that Cole getting hit for a few minutes against the likes of Rider has silenced the nay sayers. Still strikes me as Avery Patterson. We shall see.[/quote]

Shocking.
 
[quote="Amaseinyourface" post=406972][quote="we are sju" post=406940][quote="Amaseinyourface" post=406923][quote="Boo Harvey" post=406918][quote="Return of Earlington" post=406914]Stars of the night:

Cole- found his stroke from 3 again at just the right time.

Duke of Earlington- hes back baby!!!!! He plays better inside out. Once he gets a few garbage buckets, he extends out and starts hitting jays. When he starts out gunning from deep, that is no good.

mcgriff- again real solid minutes. nothing spectacular but hes a spark for us out there when posh needs a blow.

Wusu- a couple nice drives and layups when we really needed points.[/quote]

Took an ill-advised three late in the game that hit the side of the backboard. Champ bailed him out with the rebound and score.[/quote]

Was open and was 7-7 before that shot. I didn’t start the possession asking for an ME 3 but I don’t think I’d call it ill-advised either.[/quote]

He was shooting under 40 % coming in
He can’t miss every shot
He made a couple jumpers today but all of his shots outside of 15 feet are I’ll advised[/quote]

And he shot 46% his first two years, which one you buying?

I think his first 3 may have saved the game.[/quote]

22% and 27% from 3
Not a good shot for him and hits side of backboard frequently
 
Glad we won, but my expectations for doing anything special this year are pretty low at this point. This was #274 Rider on our final OOC game, not #165 St. Peter's on opening night. 5-1 is good and I definitely would've signed up for that, but we could be 2-4 if we lost to St. Peter's, BC and now Rider. Frankly we're very lucky to be 5-1 and the team deserves credit for pulling out these tough endings, but I'm keeping my expectations in check. Glad the OOC portion is finished because these were some stressful "must win" games. Time to step up now.
 
I think Cole will be fine and he scores soooo effortlessly when he does so. He will learn to pick his spots. Reminds me of Preston shumoert a bit because he’s more of a shooter than a scorer, but if he is able to continue growing in the system, he can become a very difficult scorer to stop. He’s also grabbing boards which is an underrated part of his game.
 
This game magnifies the need to get Rasheem Dunn back to help with defensive pressure on opposing guards.
Also, getting the new transfer eligible is a critical factor because Moore and Toro lack defensive instincts inside.
 
[quote="Adam" post=406987]Glad we won, but my expectations for doing anything special this year are pretty low at this point. This was #274 Rider on our final OOC game, not #165 St. Peter's on opening night. 5-1 is good and I definitely would've signed up for that, but we could be 2-4 if we lost to St. Peter's, BC and now Rider. Frankly we're very lucky to be 5-1 and the team deserves credit for pulling out these tough endings, but I'm keeping my expectations in check. Glad the OOC portion is finished because these were some stressful "must win" games. Time to step up now.[/quote]

I hear.you and hopefully MA doesn't do bone head substitutions in a 2pnt game where we could go down 8 or 9points. If we lose then Butler becomes a must win, otherwise at 0-2 it's: "Well here we go again."
Let's avoid a must win on Monday with a win Friday.
 
[quote="Adam" post=406987]Glad we won, but my expectations for doing anything special this year are pretty low at this point. This was #274 Rider on our final OOC game, not #165 St. Peter's on opening night. 5-1 is good and I definitely would've signed up for that, but we could be 2-4 if we lost to St. Peter's, BC and now Rider. Frankly we're very lucky to be 5-1 and the team deserves credit for pulling out these tough endings, but I'm keeping my expectations in check. Glad the OOC portion is finished because these were some stressful "must win" games. Time to step up now.[/quote]

It's still really early, I don't think there's but a handful of coaches that feel really good about where their team is right now. Also people forgot Dunn is still out he's a team captain and the team's leading returning scorer, Dunn should be a 10-12 PPG guy when he returns and will be one of the better on ball defenders on defense as well.

Also, those early Kenpom rankings or whatever source people are looking up right now to get rankings are completely useless right now, there's some teams that haven't even played games yet, Rider only has 2 games, nobody knows what they are or aren't yet. When they release the NET Rankings (which is probably still several weeks away), that's when all teams (should) have several games under their belt and they have enough data to actually rank teams.
 
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[quote="Boo Harvey" post=406983][quote="MJDinkins" post=406974][quote="Ray Morgan" post=406960]A few observations.
1. If Moore was brought here in part to be a rim protector, I'm not seeing it. More minutes for Roberts? Not surprised that CMA wants that.

2. Cole is the epitome of a rhythm shooter. He has been feast or famine. He finds ways to score, but is not explosive going to the rim. The polar opposite of the wings we usually have. After countless years having the Dom Pointer type of explosive athlete but limited offensively, I like having the type of shooter that can get hot and win games.[/quote]

I knew from the handful of JUCO games I witnessed of Moore that he wasn't exactly a rim protector. I learned years ago that height doesn't automatically make one a legit or true shot blocker. Let's say that fits Moore like a glove. Unfortunately, his overall defense is sort of porous at this juncture.

As far as Cole.... This is why it's rather amusing when some folks are so quick to write off players. I suspect Cole will have a few more games like tonight as the season progresses.[/quote]

Yo wrote the same thing about Cole in the game thread. I would hardly say that Cole getting hit for a few minutes against the likes of Rider has silenced the nay sayers. Still strikes me as Avery Patterson. We shall see.[/quote]

If Cole isn't way better than Patterson, SJU is looking up at the rest of the league. Patterson stunk the joint up his 1 year here. He shot 36% overall and 33% from 3. He didn't seem to have a very good attitude, constantly having the mope face. How Cole handles the Big East is an unknown, but I do know that we are 3 and 3 without him instead of 5 and 1.
 
[quote="Enright" post=406982]Rider only turned the ball over thirteen times and that means very few easy layups, SJU will have to get that number up to twenty vs Seton Hall to win that game.[/quote]

Turning seton hall over 20 times would be fun but we don’t need that necessarily. This isn’t seton hall of last season. They are rebuilding and retooling, much like us. And I suspect the game will be close no matter how many times we turn them over
 
[quote="James Ray Lamb" post=406924]Earlington was 7-8 FG and 1-2 3-pt
16 points
5 Reb 1 Asst

He is beginning to contribute again. He still needs to clean up his FG. He shouldn't be missing that many.

Team
FG 47.1% that's not acceptable for BE team.
3-pt 27.8% ouch

41 Reb 20 assists[/quote]

Last year only 2 be reams shot over 47% from the floor. The rest were unacceptable. ;)
 
[quote="Making Plays" post=406997][quote="Adam" post=406987]Glad we won, but my expectations for doing anything special this year are pretty low at this point. This was #274 Rider on our final OOC game, not #165 St. Peter's on opening night. 5-1 is good and I definitely would've signed up for that, but we could be 2-4 if we lost to St. Peter's, BC and now Rider. Frankly we're very lucky to be 5-1 and the team deserves credit for pulling out these tough endings, but I'm keeping my expectations in check. Glad the OOC portion is finished because these were some stressful "must win" games. Time to step up now.[/quote]

It's still really early, I don't think there's but a handful of coaches that feel really good about where their team is right now. Also people forgot Dunn is still out he's a team captain and the team's leading returning scorer, Dunn should be a 10-12 PPG guy when he returns and will be one of the better on ball defenders on defense as well.

Also, those early Kenpom rankings or whatever source people are looking up right now to get rankings are completely useless right now, there's some teams that haven't even played games yet, Rider only has 2 games, nobody knows what they are or aren't yet. When they release the NET Rankings (which is probably still several weeks away), that's when all teams (should) have several games under their belt and they have enough data to actually rank teams.[/quote]

I agree about Dunn and coaches not feeling confident in their teams yet. As for KenPom, it's primarily based on pre-season projections at this point still. Probably 90% is pre-season expectations rather than the limited games. Somewhere in the high 200s sounds about right for Rider IMO. They lost by 35 to an OK Syracuse squad and are young.

That said, I'm happy we won, I'm just keeping my expectations in check. Congrats to the team on starting 5-1, we have a solid resume.
 
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[quote="James Ray Lamb" post=406924]
Team
FG 47.1% that's not acceptable for BE team.
3-pt 27.8% ouch

41 Reb 20 assists[/quote]

A bigger problem: our opponents are shooting .477 and .370 (3 points) against us.
 
Allowing a ton of dribble penetration, improving on ball D a must.

At a certain point the half court traps will have to be reduced and our straight up man on man defense will have to improve. This is the game against solid competition.
 
Posh is so aggressive at trying to steal the ball that he overplays his man and allows him to blow by him.
Love the kid and his aggressiveness. But he has the body and skills to lock someone down. Look forward to seeing that.
 
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I don't think anyone should stress over substitution patterns yet. But maybe I say this because I would do the same thing in preseason. I'd be playing Wusu at center and PF in some of these games, so you guys are lucky I'm not the coach.

As for Toro, not sure what is up. I've watched a lot of A-10 games in my life, and the league is not that bad. Great for Roberts, though. It's like the old joke where two guys are being chased by a tiger, and one guy stops to put on sneakers.

"What are you doing?" says the other man. "Do you think you will run fast than the tiger with those?"

"I don’t have to run faster than the tiger," he says. "I just have to run faster than you."
 
The biggest difference so far between Cole and Avery Patterson is that even if Cole left the team tomorrow I would still give a shit about him.
 
Unfortunately, the way our system is run, get used to giving up almost 40% from 3 all season on avg. We yield open shots to opponents betting that our havoc will force tons of turnovers for us to feast on. It's a big bet, because once you run into a calm under control team that can shoot and execute a half court offense like BYU, you will be handled relatively easily. It's nice to have a system instead of street ball...but I wonder at what cost. I think it could work consistently against mid majors, but the jury is still out to see if it can work sustainably in the Big East. Opponents know they will have someone wide open every time if they execute their halfcourt offense and beat the press. But honestly, I don't even think we would be shooting as well as Rider even with wide open shots. We need more shooters and a Big East big.
 
Why can’t we ever have a lights out shooter player? The past 20 years we have had a drought of having a shooter someone is scared of.
 
Well, we avoided an embarrassing loss and that's about the best thing I can say about this one. I've been really positive and supportive of Coach Anderson but I think a little criticism is fair here so...

We all knew what was going to happen when he went to the lineup in the first half. And it did happen. If we all knew it, how could he not? I totally understand wanting to try that out but let's hope he doesn't go to that well again in Big East play.
Also, Coach holds onto his timeouts too long sometimes for my taste. At the start of the 2nd half we were down 2. It was pretty clear things were out of sorts to me at the start of that half. Call a timeout! Right away! The guys came out unfocused.Coach didn't want to waste a timeout and was trying to get to the Under 16 whistle but of course the wheels came off and within a one minute stretch we turn the ball over twice they hit a 3 and a layup and next thing you know we're down 11. And guess what? Then he had to take the timeout before the under 16 anyway! I didn't check but it couldn't have been more than 15 or 20 seconds from the Under 16. I get that timeouts are precious at the end of a close game but stopping a 2 minute stretch of awful basketball could be the difference between being in a game where those timeouts are important to the ending.

Very happy to have this Coach but that was almost as frustrating as all the missed layups and dunks (almost.)

The only real positives are we won a close game and it's probably not a bad thing for Cole and Earlington to get a little bit of confidence heading into conference play. If we start slow like this against Big East teams we won't be down 4 or 6 like against Rider or St. Pete's, we'll be down 15 to Seton Hall or 25 to Nova. I like the pieces on this team but they've gotta tighten it up, hit the bunnies and guard the perimeter.
 
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