(POST GAME) @Providence, Wed. Jan. 15, 8:30p, FS-1 / 570 WMCA

[quote="Ray Morgan" post=372665]Have to feel bad for Heron. Last chance to impress the scouts, and his production and confidence are at a career low point. He is a much better player than he has been showing. Seems like a carryover from the Arizona State game in the NCAA. As for Figgy, somewhere there must be a stat for average distance of the 3 pointers he takes. Has to be over 30 feet. Some here believed that Ponds hurt Heron's game, but it seems he misses a player that is constantly the focus of other teams defense.[/quote]

It’s been said before, and has become very evident this season, but both LJ and Heron are better complimentary players than stars on their own. LJ can at least create his own shot and has more in his bag than Heron does. Heron was a beast in high school. I just don’t know what happened to him. Not sure what’s going on but I too feel for him as he can’t be happy with his senior season. I can tell you one thing, it is of no fault of the coaches nor the system. The offense is active. Gotta be able to make some space in basketball and create. We have enough guys that teams aren’t just keying on heron and/or LJ. Those guys just aren’t able to get it done consistently. LJ overall is doing a much better job than Heron at keeping his energy level up and trying to create shots. I’d like to see Heron turn it around and come on strong but I don’t have much confidence in that at this point in time.
 
[quote="Porgyman" post=372661]It will be tough to watch, but this year is necessary if this team is going to grow in future years. In hockey terms, we have a bunch of 3rd and 4th line players, forced into 1st and 2nd line roles The key for this year is development of the younger players. After the season, CMA and staff need to evaluate them, and determine where their ceiling lies. Things will get better. It’s just not a quick, painless process. (I’ve been waiting 35years).[/quote] I just don't want something like a 3-15 conference record. That's not much to build on, and it will be annoying if they pat themselves on the back for 6-12 next year. Also, I believe that losing breeds more losing, so a really bad record might have ramifications down the road. That's why it was important that we did well in the non-conference. It will keep the win total from being extremely bad, and you might be able to sell that to a recruit who doesn't know any better.
 
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[quote="redmaninalbany" post=372649]Knight, I hope you're right but I don't see that happening unless Heron and Fig have to right their own ship with smarter overall offense shot selection. Coach must have spoken about this but it should be self-evident.
Until we get a top class point guard, next year, we will rely on Dunn's control of the floor. While he makes good plays often enough and has the right temperament for the position, his instincts and speed on the drives, I'm not sure his judgement matches those skills as a floor general. We are getting out rebounded in part due to the same old size issues. The bench players are adequate filling roles and they may play even more to develop them...but that means it's because they will contribute in future years, not be takeover players this season.
I sincerely hope your right and I'm wrong. But, beyond sheer emotion, I just don't see Coach elevating this team anymore than he has to date. Anderson probably improves our standing....some day.....but I don't hold much hope for it to be meaningful this season.[/quote]

I mostly agree with your opinion but disagree in your comment " I just don't see Coach elevating this team anymore than he has to date". We could have easily won this game had it not been for the subpar play of key start starters in critical situations.
As I stated earlier in the season I think Dunn is a much better player than Rutherford and I think CMA is wrong to play them together. Neither of them are good point guards as Dunn is a great slasher with the ball in his hands but cannot direct the offense. I see little value in Rutherford and he was clearly a desperation addition. Tonight we got a combined ONE ASSIST from both. That says it all. As I stated earlier this season we would feel the loss of McGriff.
As for Heron and Figueroa I know a couple of posters feel I have been tough on them but tonight's play by them is just the latest example of why we should be better but are not due to the low basketbal IQ exhibited by both. Figgy taking unnecessary threes is a continuation of the green light mentality instilled by the last bunch of coaches.
All you have to do is look at the facial expressions of Heron and Figueroa to know they are playing with self induced stress that is causing them to make poor decisions. All you have to do is look at the complete disinterest on the face of Ian Steere to know we got another player who is not a team first player and who we thought would have an impact inside. Reality is we only have a 6'9 string bean with no offensive game.
So, CMA could avoid a below.500 season if the players I mentioned ever mentally adjust their attitudes but that is easier said than done.
I just don't think we have cerebral players who understand some concepts that require introspection and acceptance of their limitations.



www.usab.com:443/youth/news/2011/06/10-t...x#.XhuIteEedOE.email
 
[quote="Porgyman" post=372667][quote="MJDinkins" post=372664][quote="Porgyman" post=372661]It will be tough to watch, but this year is necessary if this team is going to grow in future years. In hockey terms, we have a bunch of 3rd and 4th line players, forced into 1st and 2nd line roles The key for this year is development of the younger players. After the season, CMA and staff need to evaluate them, and determine where their ceiling lies. Things will get better. It’s just not a quick, painless process. (I’ve been waiting 35years).[/quote]

Thing is it (a turnaround) can happen quickly in basketball. Will it occur next season? Not sure. But an ascension in basketball can happen more so than any other team sport.[/quote]
Agreed, however you need to add a very special player for a quick turnaround. A four or five star recruit with leadership skills. Unfortunately, that type of player is beyond our grasp right now.[/quote]

That's one way of a sudden turnaround; not the only way. There's more than one way of skinning a cat.

Another way is another year of experience and the integration of a solid group of players. Hopefully, we land a quality big and a more, than steady shooter in the spring.
 
I don't understand how you can play so poorly from a time management standpoint when you have experienced coaches on the sideline. I guess it goes to show you how bad the basketball IQ is for our better players. Just horrible execution. Continue to wonder where this team is getting more wins from.
 
This season raises a dichotomy that we have to accept: they are overachieving by the post-coaching change expectations but underachieving based on what the pre-season seemed to show.

As many of us have said on here, this is a rebuilding year and Anderson has far exceeded expectations thus far. They have been completive in almost every game, and that was not something that many would have predicted when Chris was let go.

LJ and Heron are definitely underperforming expectations, and I am not sure why. Many have made good points about "second chair" players, but I don't necessarily buy that completely. Maybe it is that they are not suitable for this system; again, not sure about that. I do think Heron is a better player than shown, but maybe he is still hurt. LJ is more of a mystery. He seemed last year to be a star on the rise. This year, he mostly takes bad shots and is undisciplined. The 30 foot 3 pointers and floaters are ill advised. I hope (for his sake as much as ours) that the long 3 pointers are not his way of auditioning for the next level (which is obsessed with that). As Marshall said last night (and I think Elmore earlier in season), he should be using his athleticism and going to the basket more. To me, he is the biggest disapointment.

Aside from that, we need more shooters and more consisten rebounders. That won't be addressed this year (tho another huge disappointment is that Steere, after much anticipation, is a zero). Many of the other players have exceeded expectations. Maybe not on a consistent basis, but several have shown to be much better than we would have thought and will likely be good 4 year players here.

I have adopted Marcus' approach and am philosophical about this year, not angry as I have been in past years, and I am still hopeful that we will play better and that coach's .500 streak will continue. But we need to win a few of these ugly games. I think we will, but better play by LJ and Heron is needed.
 
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[quote="redmanwest" post=372675]This season raises a dichotomy that we have to accept: they are overachieving by the post-coaching change expectations but underachieving based on what the pre-season seemed to show.

As many of us have said on here, this is a rebuilding year and Anderson has far exceeded expectations thus far. They have been completive in almost every game, and that was not something that many would have predicted when Chris was let go.

LJ and Heron are definitely underperforming expectations, and I am not sure why. Many have made good points about "second chair" players, but I don't necessarily buy that completely. Maybe it is that they are not suitable for this system; again, not sure about that. I do think Heron is a better player than shown, but maybe he is still hurt. LJ is more of a mystery. He seemed last year to be a star on the rise. This year, he mostly takes bad shots and is undisciplined. The 30 foot 3 pointers and floaters are ill advised. I hope (for his sake as much as ours) that the long 3 pointers are not his way of auditioning for the next level (which is obsessed with that). As Marshall said last night (and I think Elmore earlier in season), he should be using his athleticism and going to the basket more. To me, he is the biggest disapointment.

Aside from that, we need more shooters and more consisten rebounders. That won't be addressed this year (tho another huge dispointmebnt is that Steere, after much antiocipation, is a zero). Many of the other players have exceeded expectations. Maybe not on a consistent basis, but several have shown to be much better than we would have thought and will likely be good 4 year players here.

I have adopted Marcus' approach and am philosophical about this year, not angry as I have been in past years, and I am still hopeful that we will play better and that coach's .500 streak will continue. But we need to win a few of these ugly games. I think we will, but better play by LJ and Heron is needed.[/quote]
Good post. I am with you & Marcus on where we are & where we need to go. No sense getting crazy at this point and if they steal a few games and end up with original 15 wins or so projections, so be it. No sense beating LJ, Heron bad play to death. What is apparent CMA must bring in more BE level players to upgrade perimeter shooting and interior play. Point guard will be better next season it seems, one building block I think.
 
Its gotten to the point that our best option in crunch time is earlington. He was the only guy making huge buckets at the end of the game. Now i love the duke but lets be serious. That was not the plan going into the year. Figgy and heron have been busts.
 
What bothered me the most about our play was our failure to block out. I lost count on how many put backs Providence had.
 
Really disappointed...let's be real LJ and Heron have not been as advertised. They have taken big steps back. Heron an even bigger one. Didn't help that the refs seemed to target him with ridiculous fouls one after another, but every time he shoots I expect a brick. Just as he was getting hot for the first time in forever, he has to sit much of the game due to these BS fouls. I knew the game was over after the 4th foul.

Being real, we are 1-5 after the Seton Hall game and it's probably a blow out. We have no bigs. Roberts doesn't even play anymore and Steere is going to transfer because he's never used. Not that he's looked great but have to give him a chance he just waited a whole season on our bench and now he's staying there. Gil is going to eat us up inside in a dunk fest and when we collapse on him, he will kick it out to Powell. The worst part is that even if we win, it means nothing because the season is already over in terms of any postseason tourney. Just like when we beat Duke and Nova when they were #1...great wins but zero impact on the season.

Not only is PC not that special...they were playing without a major key player in Reeves. PC might as well install a Friar flag on our campus, because they own us. We used to be better than these teams even going back to the Lavin era. Now they all passed us by. Attendance is going to be awful but you reap what you sow.
 
A former poster on the site would from time repeated former Oklahoma Coach Barry Switzer's quote "It ain't the X's and O's, it's the Jimmys and Joes".

That said CMA's coaching has producing results with this team that exceed the sum of its parts. The bottom line however is that this years StJohn's team lacks the overall talent necessary to close out most Big East games.
 
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[quote="Mike Zaun" post=372680]Really disappointed...Not only is PC not that special...they were playing without a major key player in Reeves.


Disagree. They are 4-1 in conference, and even with the benefit of maybe an easy early schedule, they have won those games. Unlike us.
 
[quote="otis" post=372681]A former poster on the site would from time repeated former Oklahoma Coach Barry Switzer's quote "It ain't the X's and O's, it's the Jimmys and Joes".

That said CMA's coaching has producing results with this team that exceed the sum of its parts. The bottom line however is that this years StJohn's team lacks the overall talent necessary to close out most Big East games.[/quote]

This is the truth and it’s obvious in the court. It’s why I’m not more upset with losing this season. It’s a big talent gap and Mullin and Co. left the stable pretty empty. Not much any coach could do to get these guys scoring the ball.
 
[quote="MJDinkins" post=372641]Figueroa and Heron aren't "stars" or "stud" type players. They are quality, complementary players. Being they are the focal point of defenses makes things harder for both of 'em. They also can't consistently create their own shots, so they need to be set up on most occasions.

If we had a team full of shooters, they probably would flourish with that type of group as shooters has to be respected and it'll open up the floor for the two of 'em. I'm not upset with either one, although I thought they would be much better players but they're playing with a mediocre group and the two obviously wasn't ready to take on the scoring load we sorely need.[/quote]

Exactly! I think it was pretty evident early in the season, that neither player was the kind of player that we could rely on to do the heavy lifting most nights. And neither player is a go-to guy at the end of a close game. Last night was a prime example, and it had less to do with the fact that both missed key shots, and more to do with their decision making with the game on the line. Thankfully we’ve gotten unexpected contributions from others, and we’ve still exceeded expectations IMO.
 
The Johnnies bench stepped up and won games when Heron has struggled.

Don't understand why Caraher and Roberts aren't playing well. Caraher played 7 mins with 0 production. No rebounds, assists or points. Roberts played 13 mins with 1 rebound and 2 assists. No points.

Rutherford played 21 mins with 2 rebounds and 1 assist. No points.

The bench isn't producing like it did earlier. It makes a big difference when Heron and LJ are struggling.
 
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Can't believe I am saying this, but I wholly support Class of 72's post. I always expected our guard play to be a problem. Those who praise Dunn's play are missing the whole picture. He plays out of control and commits more errors of omission and commission than he does good plays. Give Williams more of his minutes.

I did not see the futility of Heron and LJ coming. Some players just need to be 2nd bananas. Ponds took the pressure off them last year and they have both shown that this year neither of the is talented enough to lead this team.
 
[quote="James Ray Lamb" post=372687]The Johnnies bench stepped up and won games when Heron has struggled.

Don't understand why Caraher and Roberts aren't playing well. Caraher played 7 mins with 0 production. No rebounds, assists or points. Roberts played 13 mins with 1 rebound and 2 assists. No points.

That makes a big difference when Heron and LJ are struggling.[/quote]

Roberts’ entire game is from 3’ and in. He’s been getting man-handled against Big East comp. Not his fault, it is what it is. Maybe he’ll add some bulk over the summer. That’s why I’d prefer to see more of Sears. At least he can hold his own against the big boys. Caraher didn’t give us much against OC comp, except for that one game where he went for 18. So again not surprised that he’s really been struggling against Big East comp. Still say our top 7(not in order) should be: Fig, Heron, Dunn, Williams, Earl, Champ and Sears.
 
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