(POST GAME) Providence, Wed. Feb. 12, 8:30p, CBS SN / 570 WMCA

[quote="SJUFAN2" post=376989][quote="Not an alum" post=376968]Great feeling popping providences bubble. Watching Williams jr, he has opp to drive the basket but instead he takes 2-3 dribbles around the arc and passes. He’s so quick that he could blow by these defenders and get to the basket. That’s the next step in his game. I hope he takes it here[/quote]

I'd like to see Williams be more aggressive as well. I think his biggest issue right now besides the back is confidence. Once he has that sorted out I think he can flourish in this system.

How do you feel about keeping Earlington and Roberts?[/quote]



There is no reason for Williams, Earlington and Roberts to leave after this season. After all Williams and Earlington play plenty of minutes each game and Roberts finally got some playing time last night. Williams certainly plays over 20 minutes a game because of his defense and has to be appreciative even though he hasn't been much offensively. Now Earlington hasn't been stopped from taking the outside shot even when he wasn't hitting the threes.They are not going any where.
 
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I don't know if this was already posted but why did coach have Fiqueroa take the technical foul shots. Wasn't Dunn in the game at that time?
Roberts has to put a body on his man. It is one thing to block a shot but he allowed Watson offensive rebounds iresulting in fouls. Box out Josh!
 
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[quote="Amaseinyourface" post=376992][quote="Monte" post=376988][quote="redmannorth" post=376944]The life of a St. John’s fan. The teams best p’ayer Is out for the balance of the season , our once highly promising big man is suspended indefinitely and we show up and lead big from early on to beat Providence who has given us a super hard time over the last few years.
Just when all hope was gone our young 2 and 3 star players provide us with increased optimism once again. Looking forward to a repeat.[/quote]
You know I respect you immensely RN, but Heron has not been our best player this year. The reality is that we’ve played most or our best games when he’s been a DNP, or played limited minutes. I am not knocking the kid. Quite the contrary; I’ve already praised him in the other thread, but there is no denying the facts and it’s not a coincidence.[/quote]

Maybe I’m mistaking you for another poster but glad to see you’ve come around on this topic.[/quote]

You are very much mistaken me for another poster. I have been consistent in my position on this since the start of the year.
 
[quote="JackofVirginia" post=376994]I don't know if this was already posted but why did coach have Fiqueroa take the technical foul shots. Wasn't Dunn in the game at that time?
Roberts has to put a body on his man. It is one thing to block a shot but he allowed Watson offensive rebounds iresulting in fouls. Box out Josh![/quote]
Josh does not have the weight to handle Watson/Young so he had to front them and defend with his quickness. But in Josh's 19 minutes he had 6 R's to Watson/Young's 7 in 39 minutes. It was Diallo who was doing the damage on the boards and he was not Josh's responsibility. (he also had 3 blocks to their 1 in half the time.) Please give him a break--he put in great effort last night.
 
[quote="Monte" post=376996][quote="Amaseinyourface" post=376992][quote="Monte" post=376988][quote="redmannorth" post=376944]The life of a St. John’s fan. The teams best p’ayer Is out for the balance of the season , our once highly promising big man is suspended indefinitely and we show up and lead big from early on to beat Providence who has given us a super hard time over the last few years.
Just when all hope was gone our young 2 and 3 star players provide us with increased optimism once again. Looking forward to a repeat.[/quote]
You know I respect you immensely RN, but Heron has not been our best player this year. The reality is that we’ve played most or our best games when he’s been a DNP, or played limited minutes. I am not knocking the kid. Quite the contrary; I’ve already praised him in the other thread, but there is no denying the facts and it’s not a coincidence.[/quote]

Maybe I’m mistaking you for another poster but glad to see you’ve come around on this topic.[/quote]

You are very much mistaken me for another poster. I have been consistent in my position on this since the start of the year.[/quote]

My mistake. Anyway we can put a hold on any new “M” posters :p
 
[quote="Monte" post=376988][quote="redmannorth" post=376944]The life of a St. John’s fan. The teams best p’ayer Is out for the balance of the season , our once highly promising big man is suspended indefinitely and we show up and lead big from early on to beat Providence who has given us a super hard time over the last few years.
Just when all hope was gone our young 2 and 3 star players provide us with increased optimism once again. Looking forward to a repeat.[/quote]
You know I respect you immensely RN, but Heron has not been our best player this year. The reality is that we’ve played most of our best games when he’s been a DNP, or played limited minutes. I am not knocking the kid. Quite the contrary; I’ve already praised him in the other thread, but there is no denying the facts and it’s not a coincidence.[/quote]

Agree with this 100%.
 
[quote="Big Red" post=376999][quote="Monte" post=376988][quote="redmannorth" post=376944]The life of a St. John’s fan. The teams best p’ayer Is out for the balance of the season , our once highly promising big man is suspended indefinitely and we show up and lead big from early on to beat Providence who has given us a super hard time over the last few years.
Just when all hope was gone our young 2 and 3 star players provide us with increased optimism once again. Looking forward to a repeat.[/quote]
You know I respect you immensely RN, but Heron has not been our best player this year. The reality is that we’ve played most of our best games when he’s been a DNP, or played limited minutes. I am not knocking the kid. Quite the contrary; I’ve already praised him in the other thread, but there is no denying the facts and it’s not a coincidence.[/quote]

Agree with this 100%.[/quote]

When someone says Heron is the best player on the team I read it as a healthy Heron is the best all around basketball player on this team and there is no denying that as a fact. Is he the best for THIS team and coach if healthy? Maybe yes, maybe no. We'll never know.

There is no denying that the injury has slowed him down and limited his explosiveness. The injury appears to have started in the summer at the Pan Am games and then was exacerbated in the season so I don't think anyone saw the real Heron all year. This has adversely affected his ability to fit in with the aggressive quick style of D Coach A wants them to play and also his versatility on offense making him easier to defend. So this season Heron was not the best player on the team and was a tough fit in the systems. Not sure any of this explains how much better they've looked without him though. Could be that when he was on the floor teammates were still hoping an injured Heron could revert to his old self and relied on him too much, and he tried to too much to meet their hopes and it brought the team down. But then again, maybe not.
 
[quote="austour" post=377008][quote="Big Red" post=376999][quote="Monte" post=376988][quote="redmannorth" post=376944]The life of a St. John’s fan. The teams best p’ayer Is out for the balance of the season , our once highly promising big man is suspended indefinitely and we show up and lead big from early on to beat Providence who has given us a super hard time over the last few years.
Just when all hope was gone our young 2 and 3 star players provide us with increased optimism once again. Looking forward to a repeat.[/quote]
You know I respect you immensely RN, but Heron has not been our best player this year. The reality is that we’ve played most of our best games when he’s been a DNP, or played limited minutes. I am not knocking the kid. Quite the contrary; I’ve already praised him in the other thread, but there is no denying the facts and it’s not a coincidence.[/quote]

Agree with this 100%.[/quote]

When someone says Heron is the best player on the team I read it as a healthy Heron is the best all around basketball player on this team and there is no denying that as a fact. Is he the best for THIS team and coach if healthy? Maybe yes, maybe no. We'll never know.

There is no denying that the injury has slowed him down and limited his explosiveness. The injury appears to have started in the summer at the Pan Am games and then was exacerbated in the season so I don't think anyone saw the real Heron all year. This has adversely affected his ability to fit in with the aggressive quick style of D Coach A wants them to play and also his versatility on offense making him easier to defend. So this season Heron was not the best player on the team and was a tough fit in the systems. Not sure any of this explains how much better they've looked without him though. Could be that when he was on the floor teammates were still hoping an injured Heron could revert to his old self and relied on him too much, and he tried to too much to meet their hopes and it brought the team down. But then again, maybe not.[/quote]

My biggest problem with Heron this year was his decision making at times, but that may have been a result of him trying to do to much, and forcing things. Regardless, it's water under the bridge. I wish the kid the best moving and think we'll rise above his loss as evidenced by last night's win.
 
[quote="austour" post=377008][quote="Big Red" post=376999][quote="Monte" post=376988][quote="redmannorth" post=376944]The life of a St. John’s fan. The teams best p’ayer Is out for the balance of the season , our once highly promising big man is suspended indefinitely and we show up and lead big from early on to beat Providence who has given us a super hard time over the last few years.
Just when all hope was gone our young 2 and 3 star players provide us with increased optimism once again. Looking forward to a repeat.[/quote]
You know I respect you immensely RN, but Heron has not been our best player this year. The reality is that we’ve played most of our best games when he’s been a DNP, or played limited minutes. I am not knocking the kid. Quite the contrary; I’ve already praised him in the other thread, but there is no denying the facts and it’s not a coincidence.[/quote]

Agree with this 100%.[/quote]

When someone says Heron is the best player on the team I read it as a healthy Heron is the best all around basketball player on this team and there is no denying that as a fact. Is he the best for THIS team and coach if healthy? Maybe yes, maybe no. We'll never know.

There is no denying that the injury has slowed him down and limited his explosiveness. The injury appears to have started in the summer at the Pan Am games and then was exacerbated in the season so I don't think anyone saw the real Heron all year. This has adversely affected his ability to fit in with the aggressive quick style of D Coach A wants them to play and also his versatility on offense making him easier to defend. So this season Heron was not the best player on the team and was a tough fit in the systems. Not sure any of this explains how much better they've looked without him though. Could be that when he was on the floor teammates were still hoping an injured Heron could revert to his old self and relied on him too much, and he tried to too much to meet their hopes and it brought the team down. But then again, maybe not.[/quote]

His ball skills aren’t really that good. No knock, just the tale of the tape. He’s a ball stopper on offense. And is out out position on defensive more than he is in it. Nothing to do with his injury and explosiveness. Just a bad fit for this team. When he was playing, the team rhythm wasn’t there. That’s why they look so different. They work the ball when he’s not in there, LJ gets it on time. Also his propensity to jack up contested shots after one pass hurt our ability to use our quickness to track down offensive rebounds for extra possessions. This is a basketball iq thing, not an injury thing. No coincidence we are 3-1 with out him, with the 2 of the 3 wins coming against ranked teams, 2 point loss to Butler, and beating Providence by double digits. Good kid, bad fit for this team. Been saying it all year.
 
This is my last post defending Heron as he really needs no defending. There is no question he was having a disappointing year and that we have played well without him. But his three year performance in power conferences and the change in the manner he played this year (all spot up jumpers, very little drives and a major dropoff in rebounding) would indicate that physical limitation due to injury might just be the biggest reason why. He averaged 15.5 points per game and 5 rebounds per game (as opposed to 2 this year) and shot close to 40% from three over a three year period. Also took and made lots of foul shots and drew lots of fouls. There is a reason the BE coaches who coached against him last year selected him as 2nd team BE pre-season. Anyway, seems like I'm in the minority here so I'll stop preaching.
 
Nobody saw but near the end of the game, CMA was almost T-d up again..........if he took off his pants!! Great win: they still have a pulse: weak & thready but not DOA.
 
[quote="austour" post=377008][quote="Big Red" post=376999][quote="Monte" post=376988][quote="redmannorth" post=376944]The life of a St. John’s fan. The teams best p’ayer Is out for the balance of the season , our once highly promising big man is suspended indefinitely and we show up and lead big from early on to beat Providence who has given us a super hard time over the last few years.
Just when all hope was gone our young 2 and 3 star players provide us with increased optimism once again. Looking forward to a repeat.[/quote]
You know I respect you immensely RN, but Heron has not been our best player this year. The reality is that we’ve played most of our best games when he’s been a DNP, or played limited minutes. I am not knocking the kid. Quite the contrary; I’ve already praised him in the other thread, but there is no denying the facts and it’s not a coincidence.[/quote]

Agree with this 100%.[/quote]

When someone says Heron is the best player on the team I read it as a healthy Heron is the best all around basketball player on this team and there is no denying that as a fact.[/quote]

Sorry Austour but how in the world is that a fact?
 
I argued at the beginning of the season that heron (healthy) is our best talent but I really don’t know if it’s true anymore.

I’m not trying to speak negatively about a guy who just had his season ended, but there was just too much “bull in a china shop” with him. He was reckless when driving. His 3 ball was sporadic at best.

I don’t know, with his physique you’d think his game would be slashing and getting to the hoop but he was far too reckless and never adjusted during his time at St. John’s. It bothered me last year and again this year.

His auburn days basically feel like a myth at this point
 
[quote="Amaseinyourface" post=377021][quote="austour" post=377008][quote="Big Red" post=376999][quote="Monte" post=376988][quote="redmannorth" post=376944]The life of a St. John’s fan. The teams best p’ayer Is out for the balance of the season , our once highly promising big man is suspended indefinitely and we show up and lead big from early on to beat Providence who has given us a super hard time over the last few years.
Just when all hope was gone our young 2 and 3 star players provide us with increased optimism once again. Looking forward to a repeat.[/quote]
You know I respect you immensely RN, but Heron has not been our best player this year. The reality is that we’ve played most of our best games when he’s been a DNP, or played limited minutes. I am not knocking the kid. Quite the contrary; I’ve already praised him in the other thread, but there is no denying the facts and it’s not a coincidence.[/quote]

Agree with this 100%.[/quote]

When someone says Heron is the best player on the team I read it as a healthy Heron is the best all around basketball player on this team and there is no denying that as a fact.[/quote]

Sorry Austour but how in the world is that a fact?[/quote]

It’s not. People are caught looking back at his Auburn days but that was a different system, different coach, different supporting cast. I think we’ll see this team come together more, and guys won’t have to sacrifice minutes to get Heron in. Guys that are a better fit for THIS team.
 
[quote="RedStormNC" post=376898]Glad to see a W....good team effort.

Didn't think game was going to end. My wife and daughter fell asleep on couch next to me and they always watch.[/quote]



It always seems that when we have the lead the second half takes forever.
 
[quote="BrooklynRed" post=376997][quote="JackofVirginia" post=376994]I don't know if this was already posted but why did coach have Fiqueroa take the technical foul shots. Wasn't Dunn in the game at that time?
Roberts has to put a body on his man. It is one thing to block a shot but he allowed Watson offensive rebounds iresulting in fouls. Box out Josh![/quote]
Josh does not have the weight to handle Watson/Young so he had to front them and defend with his quickness. But in Josh's 19 minutes he had 6 R's to Watson/Young's 7 in 39 minutes. It was Diallo who was doing the damage on the boards and he was not Josh's responsibility. (he also had 3 blocks to their 1 in half the time.) Please give him a break--he put in great effort last night.[/quote]


Look I have been a supporter of this kid all season. Remember I previously posted we had to stop Diallo and Watson in the paint. However, I saw Roberts standing around instead of putting a body on Watson. I played the back of a 2 -1 -2 zone in high school at 5' 11" against the likes of York Larese at St. Ann's H.S. Talk about size and weight differential. I still was able to box out by sticking my a... into them.
 
I will also add that it doesn't help anyone on this year's team that there is no real PG on the roster but it might really affect MH.
 
Felt good to get back on the right side of things. Great defensive effort. Good contributions up and down the bench.

If Earlington can continue consistently hitting that open 3 point shot (without falling in love with it) it could really help open up our half court offense a bit. Also I really love Williams Jr's game. I don't think he'll ever be the go-to guy but I strongly sense that his best basketball is still in front of him.
 
Just a added comment on CMA stripping down to his shirt sleeves and tie less , plus Cooleys comment about a Band Box of a Gym and the Heat turned up ... one of the Announcers , possibly Lappas, said it like 800 degrees inside CA last night ... maybe the AD can set the thermostat down 50 degrees before the games ? Fans and players might appreciate it . Lastly , no need to further comment on MH hurting the team , for those who believe that ... but , when Healthy , he was pretty much a lock to average between 17-20 points a game .. with him and Figgy scoring 35-40 a game , we wouldn’t be 3-9 in the BE .. His injury during the Pan Am games, playing for the USA , might have been the precursor to his further injuring it in the Brown game .. let’s try and think we didn’t get the Heron this season that his skills would have added to our W/L record . Thinking we are better off without him , doesn’t compute in my opinion .
 
[quote="QueensBall" post=377039]Felt good to get back on the right side of things. Great defensive effort. Good contributions up and down the bench.

If Earlington can continue consistently hitting that open 3 point shot (without falling in love with it) it could really help open up our half court offense a bit. Also I really love Williams Jr's game. I don't think he'll ever be the go-to guy but I strongly sense that his best basketball is still in front of him.[/quote]

The Duke's 3 balls really bailed us out last night. I felt like Providence was coming but the duke wouldnt have it.
Riase your hand if you had us pulling out big east games becasue earlington is a sniper from 3.
 
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