(POST-GAME) Providence (MSG), Sat. Feb. 9, Noon, CBS SN, 570AM

[quote="DoodyNY33" post=321749][quote="gonzalo" post=321726][quote="fordham96" post=321441]Transfer U ...[/quote]

And if we don´t get Achiuwa (the only HS player that we are recruiting) and we have some losses (draft, transfers out,...) we will only take more transfers.

And some of them will sit out and we will have depth problems again...[/quote]

I still don't think Precious is coming to St. John's. When do they ever get top flight recruits? It just never seems to happen for them.

I'm sure I'll get criticized for saying this, but I'm not at all impressed with a recruiting class of David Caraher, Eli Wright, Cam Mack, Ian Steere, and Valdir Manuel. Does anyone really think this group is going to put St. John's back on the map? From afar, the roster assembly just looks disjointed and unorganized. Wait, so you want to come to St. John's? Sure, why not? We'll take you.[/quote]

Absolutely correct on all counts. Disjointed and unorganized and taking unhappy campers that didn't pan out at their first stop. Matt to the rescue for a staff that doesn't do recruiting 101 well. Six new players next season who never played together and who need to be molded by a firm coach who is hopefully a new seasoned assistant. Not sure how AD will be influential in this regard.
 
[quote="alexander salem" post=321793][quote="fordham96" post=321782][quote="Manhattan1" post=321780]Even if we make the tournament which I have a feeling we still will this is one of the more disappointing seasons that I can remember. Extremely disorganized and way too many games where we do not show up.[/quote]

Looking at the roster and the poor recruiting strategy we all should've expected this to be honest.

See Paultz previous post about early perception and reality.[/quote]

All due respect but do people forget this is Mullin's first time ever coaching? Obviously recruiting has not been traditional but we also have to remember that he's still learning on the fly. Higher ups at SJU knew this. For Mullin and Co. to pull together a roster this talented this early is a testament to his improvement along with the staff's.[/quote]

All due respect, 4 years in, can't keep covering for Mullin's shortcomings either. If he gets this squad to do what its capable of, and he expected it to do, then he's improved. If not, we can't give him these free passes like he's still coaching Christian Jones, Alibegovic and Felix Balamou.
 
[quote="DoodyNY33" post=321733][quote="Paultzman" post=321540]Mullin;
“I thought he [Josh Roberts] did a great job. He brought great energy” - Mullin #SJUBB

“I don’t think he should have been the only one playing with that energy”

What motivates these guys then? Just beat Marquette in tough road game & they did not play with energy according to Chris?? Don’t get it.[/quote]

And why does this continue to be a theme?[/quote]

If Chris can't get them motivated to play for him, then hey.....
 
[quote="RedStormNC" post=321812][quote="alexander salem" post=321793][quote="fordham96" post=321782][quote="Manhattan1" post=321780]Even if we make the tournament which I have a feeling we still will this is one of the more disappointing seasons that I can remember. Extremely disorganized and way too many games where we do not show up.[/quote]

Looking at the roster and the poor recruiting strategy we all should've expected this to be honest.

See Paultz previous post about early perception and reality.[/quote]

All due respect but do people forget this is Mullin's first time ever coaching? Obviously recruiting has not been traditional but we also have to remember that he's still learning on the fly. Higher ups at SJU knew this. For Mullin and Co. to pull together a roster this talented this early is a testament to his improvement along with the staff's.[/quote]

All due respect, 4 years in, can't keep covering for Mullin's shortcomings either. If he gets this squad to do what its capable of, and he expected it to do, then he's improved. If not, we can't give him these free passes like he's still coaching Christian Jones, Alibegovic and Felix Balamou.[/quote]

I don't understand your first point because I've personally never covered for anyone shortcomings. I've stated multiple times this year that sometimes the talent of this roster will not overcome the lack of coaching. I just simply recognize the fact that it's his first time coaching, and on top that coaching young men. It's been a frustrating season but their has been noticeable improvement every year. Can anyone on this board name modern examples of Chris Mullins scenario (First time EVER coaching on a major conference level) and them having more success than him?
 
Alexander salem wrote: I don't understand your first point because I've personally never covered for anyone shortcomings. I've stated multiple times this year that sometimes the talent of this roster will not overcome the lack of coaching. I just simply recognize the fact that it's his first time coaching, and on top that coaching young men. It's been a frustrating season but their has been noticeable improvement every year. Can anyone on this board name modern examples of Chris Mullins scenario (First time EVER coaching on a major conference level) and them having more success than him?

We'll see how Penny Hardaway does his first 4 years at Memphis as that is a similar experiment. Having said that, it is reasonable to expect some success in year 4; the fact that Coach had no experience speaks more to whether the experiment was a good hire than anything else.
 
Didnt mean you, specifically, covering for Mullin. Just surprises me that so many keep going back to "no experience". It was a highly questionable decision out of the gate but fans of program supported based on hope/potential.

But he's now got many D1 / Big East games under his belt. He's not inexperienced any longer.

However flawed he's been perceived in several aspects of HC duties, he has assembled the horses to ride this year. He's teetering on the fence of failure or bare minimum acceptable performance (tourney), unless they go on a miraculous run which we all want but less probable.
 
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[quote="NCJohnnie" post=321826]Alexander salem wrote: I don't understand your first point because I've personally never covered for anyone shortcomings. I've stated multiple times this year that sometimes the talent of this roster will not overcome the lack of coaching. I just simply recognize the fact that it's his first time coaching, and on top that coaching young men. It's been a frustrating season but their has been noticeable improvement every year. Can anyone on this board name modern examples of Chris Mullins scenario (First time EVER coaching on a major conference level) and them having more success than him?

We'll see how Penny Hardaway does his first 4 years at Memphis as that is a similar experiment. Having said that, it is reasonable to expect some success in year 4; the fact that Coach had no experience speaks more to whether the experiment was a good hire than anything else.[/quote]

Hardaway has 4 years of exp just like Mullin. AAC is also not a major conference but I see your point. There has been success in year 4. No question about that. The program is heading in a great direction if we see this kind of improvement consistently. Next year barring any surprise exits will be our deepest and biggest team under Mullin. I've stated before that it would not shock if we won more games next year AND had greater post season success. I don't expect to sweep a top 10 team but i think we will do a better job of defending our home court. I think at the end of next season we can truly gauge whether the Mullin experiment was a failure or success.
 
[quote="RedStormNC" post=321828]Didnt mean you, specifically, covering for Mullin. Just surprises me that so many keep going back to "no experience". It was a highly questionable decision out of the gate but fans of program supported based on hope/potential.

But he's now got many D1 / Big East games under his belt. He's not inexperienced, any longer.

However flawed he's been in aspects of HC duties, he has the horses to ride this year. He's teetering on the fence of failure or bare minimum acceptable performance (tourney), unless they go on a miraculous run which we all want but less probable.[/quote] In year 4 for any coach in any sport lack of experience is no longer an excuse
 
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[quote="mjmaherjr" post=321831][quote="RedStormNC" post=321828]Didnt mean you, specifically, covering for Mullin. Just surprises me that so many keep going back to "no experience". It was a highly questionable decision out of the gate but fans of program supported based on hope/potential.

But he's now got many D1 / Big East games under his belt. He's not inexperienced, any longer.

However flawed he's been in aspects of HC duties, he has the horses to ride this year. He's teetering on the fence of failure or bare minimum acceptable performance (tourney), unless they go on a miraculous run which we all want but less probable.[/quote] In year 4 for any coach in any sport lack of experience is no longer an excuse[/quote]

What coaches have been so successful that after three years of ever coaching they were given a major conference HC position? Do you think Self, Izzo, Cal, Write, Williams and Coach K were already good coaches in under 4 years? Those guys were still wet behind the ears. I know I'm being extreme but IMO its asinine to completely throw out inexperience as a excuse during year 4. Otherwise we'd have beaten Depaul and Georgetown at home.
 
[quote="NCJohnnie" post=321826]Alexander salem wrote: I don't understand your first point because I've personally never covered for anyone shortcomings. I've stated multiple times this year that sometimes the talent of this roster will not overcome the lack of coaching. I just simply recognize the fact that it's his first time coaching, and on top that coaching young men. It's been a frustrating season but their has been noticeable improvement every year. Can anyone on this board name modern examples of Chris Mullins scenario (First time EVER coaching on a major conference level) and them having more success than him?

We'll see how Penny Hardaway does his first 4 years at Memphis as that is a similar experiment. Having said that, it is reasonable to expect some success in year 4; the fact that Coach had no experience speaks more to whether the experiment was a good hire than anything else.[/quote]

The Hardaway scenario is not exactly comparable because he took over a program in much better shape than ours. Hardaway has some quality players.
 
[quote="alexander salem" post=321835][quote="mjmaherjr" post=321831][quote="RedStormNC" post=321828]Didnt mean you, specifically, covering for Mullin. Just surprises me that so many keep going back to "no experience". It was a highly questionable decision out of the gate but fans of program supported based on hope/potential.

But he's now got many D1 / Big East games under his belt. He's not inexperienced, any longer.

However flawed he's been in aspects of HC duties, he has the horses to ride this year. He's teetering on the fence of failure or bare minimum acceptable performance (tourney), unless they go on a miraculous run which we all want but less probable.[/quote] In year 4 for any coach in any sport lack of experience is no longer an excuse[/quote]

What coaches have been so successful that after three years of ever coaching they were given a major conference HC position? Do you think Self, Izzo, Cal, Write, Williams and Coach K were already good coaches in under 4 years? Those guys were still wet behind the ears. I know I'm being extreme but IMO its asinine to completely throw out inexperience as a excuse during year 4. Otherwise we'd have beaten Depaul and Georgetown at home.[/quote] If you can get your team to beat the #10 team in the country on the road you can get your freaking team to put in an effort at home against Providence or call a time out in the second half and watch a youtube video how to do it
 
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[quote="mjmaherjr" post=321837]If you can get your team to beat the #10 team in the country on the road you can get your freaking team to put in an effort at home against Providence or call a time out in the second half and watch a youtube video how to do it[/quote]

No need to call TO, shoes were already tied
 
[quote="fordham96" post=321781]We are overstating how good Roberts is, and the lack of playing time early on. He wasn't ready and quite frankly he isn't ready now.

Also keep in mind something many of us pointed out during the early season, struggling against some very bad opponents left them no room to take starters out of those games. That is why not blowing out some of those bad teams hurt. They could not afford to lose those games.[/quote]


'' He wasn't ready and quite frankly isn't ready now." That's your opinion. And my opinion is based on yesterdays minutes. I liked his performance compared to the ragged play of Keita who up this point has not impressed me at all.
 
The only reasonable argument in favor of Mullin and staff is that the season isn't over yet.

After a lousy loss the tendency is to assume the rest of the season goes into the toilet, sort of how most experienced fans knew this team was going lose at about the mid-way point of yesterday's second half. We also thought the VCU game was a loss at about the same point, yet Ponds won the game. This season is at about the 13 minute mark of the second half of a game and we gave up a sizable lead. Now, we see what they do down the stretch.

I hate seeing this team underperform for three straight weekends and don't have a fans confidence at this point, but it is far from a miracle to see them finish out 5-2 or 4-3 with a win in the BET.
 
[quote="Mean Gene" post=321836]
The Hardaway scenario is not exactly comparable because he took over a program in much better shape than ours. Hardaway has some quality players.[/quote]

Kids in his city also care who he is. I'm not sure Mullin can say same thing. Older people, yes. High schoolers, probably not.
 
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[quote="Paultzman" post=321796]Interesting!
Per Kevin McNamara

“Over the last six seasons, the Friars' record backs up Cooley's words. PC is 12-5 at MSG over that stretch and has beaten St. John's in seven of the last eight meetings.”[/quote]

Maybe we should hire Cooley.:lol:
 
A few days after and I'm still just as confused as I was at MSG. If you can't win against nothing special teams like PC, G'Town, and DePaul at home with this roster in a down year for the conference, that's a big red flag that something's not right. Just when we finally get 18,000+ and 17,000+ to MSG with some national relevance after sweeping top 10 Marq and we lay an egg. Then you ask why the fans didn't come out for so long. Don't blame the fans, blame the staff. They are responsible for the product and quality of the product on the court. Steve Lavin is having fun with Dollar Beer Nights these days...he's not our coach so don't give me the "he left Mully with nothing" crap. After this season Mullin will have more than enough time to be fairly judged.

As a fanbase we have many who want to avoid the painful reality, so some lower expectations 5x a season and others act as if this is normal with most programs. Guys, this is not normal. Other teams actually beat the teams they're supposed to. Other teams actually live up to and even exceed expectations. Other teams actually have a real "system". Other teams actually have real coaches who have real experience and their head coaches drop everything to recruit. Fighting for our lives to even get to .500 in conference in a year where we start two 5 star players and other 4 star players including one of the best in the nation and one of our best ever in a down year for our conference is a damning sign. We are simply incapable of going on any kind of run, so not sure why anyone is holding out hope for that at this point.
 
Most of that is not rocket science or deep revelation. But, it is exhausting to rehash the same issues over and over again. In the end, the limitations of the program, self-imposed or out of the school's control are what they are.

So, you either root for the team, given those limitations and hoping to see improvement, or you don't. Just rehashing over and over again the same issues helps nothing to make things better and just causes people to get angry or react harshly.

Once the season is over, whether success or failure, the admin will have to either address what they see as needing improvement or let it ride.

Either way, each fan has to decide if they want to root for the team or not on that basis.

Debate and discussion and divergent ideas and opinions is fine, but constant harping is, frankly, tedious.
 
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[quote="redmanwest" post=321888]Most of that is not rocket science or deep revelation. But, it is exhausting to rehash the same issues over and over again. In the end, the limitations of the program, self-imposed or out of the school's control are what they are.

So, you either root for the team, given those limitations and hoping to see improvement, or you don't. Just rehashing over and over again the same issues helps nothing to make things better and just causes people to get angry or react harshly.

Once the season is over, whether success or failure, the admin will have to either address what they see as needing improvement or let it ride.

Either way, each fan has to decide if they want to root for the team or not on that basis.

Debate and discussion and divergent ideas and opinions is fine, but constant harping is, frankly, tedious.[/quote]

What do you expect to be posted on a fan forum for a team that has played like hot garbage compared to what they were supposed to be? Fans have every right to be frustrated. Of course win or lose we will root like hell for this program, but we are rooting for a program that we know in our hearts could be a lot better and a lot more consistent. Fans by in large have been extremely patient, perhaps even too patient in waiting for things to pan out with Mullin. If they don't pan out this year, who in their right mind expects them to next year with a worse roster? Would anyone bet money this team is better next year? If next year looked promising too and Ponds was staying a few more years, then maybe this season wouldn't be as frustrating. But we all know deep down this is our last real shot at being nationally relevant for probably another 4-6 years at the earliest. Frankly, I think it's tedious to see so many people being so cavalier over such incompetence. We can lose the next 500 games and some would be rationalizing it or re-framing it. That's exactly the culture that needs to be burned down around this program and I hope Cragg does. Sorry, not intending anything personal, just venting.
 
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[quote="Mike Zaun" post=321890][quote="redmanwest" post=321888]Most of that is not rocket science or deep revelation. But, it is exhausting to rehash the same issues over and over again. In the end, the limitations of the program, self-imposed or out of the school's control are what they are.

So, you either root for the team, given those limitations and hoping to see improvement, or you don't. Just rehashing over and over again the same issues helps nothing to make things better and just causes people to get angry or react harshly.

Once the season is over, whether success or failure, the admin will have to either address what they see as needing improvement or let it ride.

Either way, each fan has to decide if they want to root for the team or not on that basis.

Debate and discussion and divergent ideas and opinions is fine, but constant harping is, frankly, tedious.[/quote]

What do you expect to be posted on a fan forum for a team that has played like hot garbage compared to what they were supposed to be? Fans have every right to be frustrated. Of course win or lose we will root like hell for this program, but we are rooting for a program that we know in our hearts could be a lot better and a lot more consistent. Fans by in large have been extremely patient, perhaps even too patient in waiting for things to pan out with Mullin. If they don't pan out this year, who in their right mind expects them to next year with a worse roster? Would anyone bet money this team is better next year? If next year looked promising too and Ponds was staying a few more years, then maybe this season wouldn't be as frustrating. But we all know deep down this is our last real shot at being nationally relevant for probably another 4-6 years at the earliest. Frankly, I think it's tedious to see so many people being so cavalier over such incompetence. We can lose the next 500 games and some would be rationalizing it or re-framing it. That's exactly the culture that needs to be burned down around this program and I hope Cragg does.[/quote]

Mike, I believe most posters are frustrated with the inconsistency of the team. Many are convinced that Chris was bad choice, others support him strongly, while there seems to be a group on the fence who want to see the season play out.

I have my concerns about staff and would like to see a beefed up recruiting model, but respect positions differ. You can pound away with all your frustrations, but do you actually expect everyone to enthusiastically embrace your position that this is a lost cause? Not happening.

Be honest, if you are convinced this regime is not going to get job done, would you prefer they not make the dance and powers to be axe or put the heat on Mullin? I know you have organized a lot of fan support for games etc. but have you reached point of hoping for complete change sooner than later?
 
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