(POST GAME) NJIT, Sat., Nov. 27, 4p, FS-2
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beast of the east
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As has been pointed out, last year's team finished much better as a team than how they began. The team that started last season vs. this team right now would not have been any better than the results seen so far.
This should not be a major cause for concern because we've witnessed two CMA seasons where the team got better, adapted to his playing style, and ended the season as a tough out.
Complicating things this year is we've inserted two guys into the rotation (Smith and Mathis) who in the collegiate careers were accustomed to getting a lot of shots, and this year are at best the 3rd and 4th options if at that. We have two guys who were Big Ten recruits (Wheeler and Mathis) and that level of talent counts for something. Now Mathis was benched last season so it remains to be seen if he can play for CMA and staff, who have shown they know what they are doing. That really goes for all newcomers, who must adapt to the roles assigned to them and be productive to stay in the rotation.
The notion of guys leaving here because of CMA in my opinion is patently absurd. Every one of them wanted a program that would better secure their basketball future playing somewhere. Not a single one of them transferred to a big time conference or program, despite some prognostications here of who would be a valued addition to a top BE program if they left here. My biggest take is that many of those who departed saw the talent that was coming here and felt they would lose minutes on a better team. There are absolutely no hard feelings between the staff and athletic department and any kid who departed. CMA, staff, and MC all want the best for the kids who left, and except for maybe Moore, who was IMO a talented kid but a pain in the ass, not a single one was a problem here.
All that being said, this team has to come together and start playing seriously good basketball or we will find ourselves in a considerable hole once the conference schedule begins. With the staff we have, I'm not particularly worried at this point, and as Dave DeBusschere once instructed a young roommate named Bill Bradley, you've got to put the previous game(s) behind you if you are going to make it in this league.
This should not be a major cause for concern because we've witnessed two CMA seasons where the team got better, adapted to his playing style, and ended the season as a tough out.
Complicating things this year is we've inserted two guys into the rotation (Smith and Mathis) who in the collegiate careers were accustomed to getting a lot of shots, and this year are at best the 3rd and 4th options if at that. We have two guys who were Big Ten recruits (Wheeler and Mathis) and that level of talent counts for something. Now Mathis was benched last season so it remains to be seen if he can play for CMA and staff, who have shown they know what they are doing. That really goes for all newcomers, who must adapt to the roles assigned to them and be productive to stay in the rotation.
The notion of guys leaving here because of CMA in my opinion is patently absurd. Every one of them wanted a program that would better secure their basketball future playing somewhere. Not a single one of them transferred to a big time conference or program, despite some prognostications here of who would be a valued addition to a top BE program if they left here. My biggest take is that many of those who departed saw the talent that was coming here and felt they would lose minutes on a better team. There are absolutely no hard feelings between the staff and athletic department and any kid who departed. CMA, staff, and MC all want the best for the kids who left, and except for maybe Moore, who was IMO a talented kid but a pain in the ass, not a single one was a problem here.
All that being said, this team has to come together and start playing seriously good basketball or we will find ourselves in a considerable hole once the conference schedule begins. With the staff we have, I'm not particularly worried at this point, and as Dave DeBusschere once instructed a young roommate named Bill Bradley, you've got to put the previous game(s) behind you if you are going to make it in this league.
Ray Morgan
Well-known member
CMA recruits to his system, which relies on turning the ball over and running the break. Whether it's a coaching weakness or a recruiting weakness or a little of both, every CMA team has relied on big runs, and has problems in the half court game.
Both half court offense and defense has looked out of synch starting with Indiana. Uncharacteristic carelessness with the ball. Forced threes. Our star player in a shooting slump. Breakdowns on defense, including having issues stopping penetration leading to open threes or layups. There have been repeated breakdowns in overall concentration.
CMA isn't a coach that goes into panic mode. He will give all of his players opportunities to succeed or fail. This helps CMA figure things out for the long game he is playing. I am confident Champ's shooting slump will end. I am confident that CMA will soon be able to figure out the best lineups to use. I don't know whether that will be enough. The biggest problem with coaching St. John's is getting star players to come here. You can knock the ratings systems all you want, but top programs get 4 and 5 star recruits, while SJU tries to compete year in year out with a roster of 3 star players. Then we are all up in arms when our 3 star talent hits their logical ceiling.
Both half court offense and defense has looked out of synch starting with Indiana. Uncharacteristic carelessness with the ball. Forced threes. Our star player in a shooting slump. Breakdowns on defense, including having issues stopping penetration leading to open threes or layups. There have been repeated breakdowns in overall concentration.
CMA isn't a coach that goes into panic mode. He will give all of his players opportunities to succeed or fail. This helps CMA figure things out for the long game he is playing. I am confident Champ's shooting slump will end. I am confident that CMA will soon be able to figure out the best lineups to use. I don't know whether that will be enough. The biggest problem with coaching St. John's is getting star players to come here. You can knock the ratings systems all you want, but top programs get 4 and 5 star recruits, while SJU tries to compete year in year out with a roster of 3 star players. Then we are all up in arms when our 3 star talent hits their logical ceiling.
I'm less concerned with playing down to competition and more concerned with the fact they just might not be that good.
I would also caution on this idea they got off to a slow start last year and recovered so don't panic for a couple of reasons:
1) The poor start was mostly conference play where most of the teams they lost to were perceived to be better than SJU anyway. They had no expectations unlike this year where they are supposed to be good and these are bad teams not BE level.
2) Yes they finished strong last year they still lost to DePaul at home and did not make NCAAs in a down year in BE.
They were a 21 pt favorite to NJIT at home and pissed away a 16 point lead looked terrible last 5 minutes and had an overturn out of bounds call or they very well may have lost.
I would also caution on this idea they got off to a slow start last year and recovered so don't panic for a couple of reasons:
1) The poor start was mostly conference play where most of the teams they lost to were perceived to be better than SJU anyway. They had no expectations unlike this year where they are supposed to be good and these are bad teams not BE level.
2) Yes they finished strong last year they still lost to DePaul at home and did not make NCAAs in a down year in BE.
They were a 21 pt favorite to NJIT at home and pissed away a 16 point lead looked terrible last 5 minutes and had an overturn out of bounds call or they very well may have lost.
Beast, IMO any of the kids who got significant minutes last season(Dunn, Gwill, Earl, Moore) would have still had a significant role on this year's team, except Cole. To the best of my recollection, it wasn't until kids started leaving that CMA started finding replacements. So I don't see CMA having recruited over the kids who contributed last season. Now, it's possible that those kids wanted 30-35 MPG instead of the 20 MPG they would have gotten here, and the only way that was gonna happen was on a mid major, but I don't believe that any of them left, except maybe Roberts and Cole, because of the expectation of decrease playing time or based on who may have been brought in. And let's face facts, CMA wasn't bringing in any blue chip level talent.Beast of the East post=444485 said:
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beast of the east
Active member
Monte, kids leaving through the portal was no surprise. It was a new rule and we expected movement - perhaps not 8, but significant movement none the less. CMA's staff was already prepared from Day 1 to go after certain guys they felt would be assets. They didn't wake up and say holy crap what are we going to do. This is a fact - they were prepared and went to work on trying to secure certain kids as soon as they hit the portal.Monte post=444492 said:
The kids i was referring to were guys like Pinzon, who figured to play in the rotation at guard, and the prospect of Mathis, who was already planning to come here for PA school.
Remember GWIII and Caraher were the catalysts behind a scholarship for a disadvantaged kid, directly influenced by CMA to be part of a solution. Those kids didn't flee - they left to better their prospects of playing professionally abroad by getting more pt and exposure elsehwhere.
One other factor I believe is that some guys miscalculated what the interest would be in them from high ranking programs.
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Well we are coming off of three poor games in a row against teams we were favoured in each case by 20 or more points but yet struggled to win all three. And unfortunately past performance is usually an indicator of how a team plays. Do I hope we can turn it around all at once and see the inspired defensive good three point shooting team that played the first three games of the season I certainly do but until I see that huge spark I have some serious reservations about this team. Looking forward to that winning season and NCAA bid.Monte post=444519 said:
MarkRedman
Well-known member
When 9 of your 12 scholarship players are brand new to the program and never played with each other , it's going to take some time to build team chemistry, especially in the unique system that CMA runs. Sure, based upon our performance in the past three games (all of which should have been blowouts) there is ample reason for concern but I am very optimistic that, during the course of the season, we will see more cohesion and better overall team play. I still see this team finishing in the top half of the league and making the NCAA tournament. Keep the faith, my friends!!!
Ray Morgan
Well-known member
Team stats so far are very close to where they ended up last season, except for one glaring difference. Turnovers are up 25%. Another issue is that the top volume 3 point shooters are at 33%. Take away the MV State game, and that number is lower. The turnovers I have seen are from very careless play. Unforced errors more than failing to handle pressure. That can and will be corrected. I guess we shouldn't be surprised that 3 point shooting stats at a mid major don't hold up in a high major conference. Except we only played one high major. So that is a concern. Smith has really looked poor shooting threes.
The end result will be better when the team starts handling the ball with more care, and Champ brings up his 3 point % closer to 40 than 35, and his FT % back to the high 80s rather than 70%. To lose by 2 at Indiana tells me the talent is there. So far, the execution has been the problem.
The end result will be better when the team starts handling the ball with more care, and Champ brings up his 3 point % closer to 40 than 35, and his FT % back to the high 80s rather than 70%. To lose by 2 at Indiana tells me the talent is there. So far, the execution has been the problem.
Not to 1 up anyone but , I believe Coburn came to SJ for the PA program primarily and him playing BB was a late summer addition . As for the continuing debate between fans , I don’t think a healthy Williams would leave because he was worried about PT from Smith or even, Mathis . A healthy GWill is better than either , in my opinion . And , again , why did the Staff think Earlington , Dunn, Williams , Robert’s , McGriff, Cole wouldn’t be as good as last season ? Moore was a good Player , bad issues . A loss as a player but , clearly wasn’t reading the same book as CMA . Caraher , a great kid , along with GWill , left after the OOC schedule . I doubt he has further pro aspirations . And , he did graduate in December , I believe . His leaving is still mysterious as I doubt he left because he wasn’t going to play much . But , I could be wrong . Prior comments last year suggested he was headed to SJ Law School ? I just can’t believe our Coaches planned this total makeover of last Year’s team and to suggest the guys who did come are better than those who left is suspect . Regardless of transfer portals . And , while the details of the DeMeo departure are all speculation , due to the law suit , there were allegations of disarray at the end of last Season . Perhaps those allegations , while not known , contributed to the mass exodus ? Or , maybe CMA and staff really think the kids brought in are going to finish higher than 4 th in the BE and receive a NCAA bid ? We will see as the Season progresses .
beast of the east
Active member
I'm glad you do not believe that any players were encouraged to leave or shown the exit - that is not my take on CMA and staff. Simply put, the staff knew that as a result of the new transfer rule, there was likely to be several defections so they were prepared to begin recruiting immediately as players hit the portal. I've been told it was simply a matter of kids looking for a better situation for themselves, which the new rule provided for them without having to sit out or apply for a hardship waiver.SLYFOXX1968 post=444561 said:
Beast--much agreement. I think the players who left were looking for greener pastures. Roberts had 50% less inutes per game than 2019/20. Dunn realized he had to play the point to enhance his post college BB career. Earlington saw his minutes and scoring go down and was becoming enamored with the three and might have been looking to play wing which was not happening with Julien on the team. Greg (and his dad) had no problems with CMA but the the emergence of Julien as the focal point might have seen himself as a role player and wanted to play a more leading role; he also had a chance to go "home" (with Covid that may also have been a factor) and maybe get more time at the point.Beast of the East post=444644 said: