(POST GAME) @Marquette, Tues. Jan. 21, 9pm, FS-1 / 970AM WNYM

[quote="MJDinkins" post=373717][quote="Class of 72" post=373714]I'm sure you all are disappointed with the loss.  Well not all, especially those still having flashbacks to the great games played during the last staff's debacle. 
After all, those delusional folks think that finally being the last team invited to the tourney last season where they were quickly dispatched back to reality was the defining moment of the Mullin era.  Those teams played like absolute crap for 4 long years.  That level of bad play is not evident even by this outmatched team.
While we lost to the Hall because of the play of one of the best guards in college basketball, we lost to Marquette because of Marcus Howard who will soon become the leading scorer in college basketball history. He was the difference maker plain and simple.
Our paucity of talented guards is on full display.  Our middle has a big hole as well.
We start Dunn and Rutherford in the backcourt. Combined they were useless against a player of Howard's quality.  In the middle we start Roberts who has so many splinters on his ass from not playing under the last coaching imposters he is doing his best but obviously he is not starting material at present.  Marcellus had a bad game tonight but unfortunately he has to overwork to make up for Caraher and his shortcomings.  Steere must have a 4 minute guaranteed time contract that affects his defense.
The fact is all we got is Figueroa and Heron and neither is having a memorable season.  But there are more games to play.  So, we should applaud our players and coaches for making almost every game winnable which was unheard of with the last regime.[/quote]

By the way, Markus Howard won't ever become the all-time leading scorer in college basketball. He's a long ways off from making that possible, and it won't happen unless he had another season (which he doesn't).[/quote]

Gotta love 72’s late night posts lol
 
Another hard fought game. The competition level in the BE never lets up. Trying to contain Markus Howard is really tough. Holding him to 32 points wasn't pretty.

I still believe the Johnnies will win a few more games this season. It won't be easy, but so far these kids are still working hard and that counts for a lot.

Rebuilding the talent will take time. Probably at least a couple seasons before CMA will have the pieces he needs. By then Josh Roberts, Marcellus Earlington and Julian Champagnie should be the seasoned leaders of the team.
 
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[quote="Duke of Earlington" post=373706]It was a fun 1st half of the season, but tonight the nail was drilled into the coffin. Outside of winning the BE tourney, we have no hope of an ncaa tourney bid.

Realistically looking at this, it wont be till year 3 or 4 of CMA that we can have a really good team. And that is asuming he is going to get talent to come here.[/quote]

What, other than blind faith, makes you believe CMA will make us competitive in year three or four. We have no difference makers coming in next season. Fact is, this team has a mid-major stench to it. Why would anyone want to subject themselves to a loser career. CMA is an outstanding X and O coach. Even he can't turn chickenshit into chicken salad. We need a hustler like Lavin to bring in future pros.

The smart alternative is to give CMA a lifetime job...and we move to a lesser conference we can dominate. I'd love basketball to be fun again.
 
[quote="newsman13" post=373723][quote="Duke of Earlington" post=373706]It was a fun 1st half of the season, but tonight the nail was drilled into the coffin. Outside of winning the BE tourney, we have no hope of an ncaa tourney bid.

Realistically looking at this, it wont be till year 3 or 4 of CMA that we can have a really good team. And that is asuming he is going to get talent to come here.[/quote]

What, other than blind faith, makes you believe CMA will make us competitive in year three or four. We have no difference makers coming in next season. Fact is, this team has a mid-major stench to it. Why would anyone want to subject themselves to a loser career. CMA is an outstanding X and O coach. Even he can't turn chickenshit into chicken salad. We need a hustler like Lavin to bring in future pros.

The smart alternative is to give CMA a lifetime job...and we move to a lesser conference we can dominate. I'd love basketball to be fun again.[/quote]

I think CMA will bring in the talent. It’s getting a lot better with the next class but I agree that we need a lot more. We were left with nothing with our two “best” almost on the way out. A team takes a few years to rebuild even if we landed the best players. Right now we just aren’t there nor even close talent-wise to the rest of the league. The main thing is we have a very good coach and as the talent gets better the team will look a lot better over coming years. None of us have much patience for it, but we made so many bad coaching hires in the past that it’s no easy/quick fix. That said, I’m hoping we find another 2 scholarships to use even this season. If we can land a center like Gray and maybe another talented wing, we’d be rebuilding a bit faster.
 
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[quote="MCNPA" post=373724][quote="newsman13" post=373723][quote="Duke of Earlington" post=373706]It was a fun 1st half of the season, but tonight the nail was drilled into the coffin. Outside of winning the BE tourney, we have no hope of an ncaa tourney bid.

Realistically looking at this, it wont be till year 3 or 4 of CMA that we can have a really good team. And that is asuming he is going to get talent to come here.[/quote]

What, other than blind faith, makes you believe CMA will make us competitive in year three or four. We have no difference makers coming in next season. Fact is, this team has a mid-major stench to it. Why would anyone want to subject themselves to a loser career. CMA is an outstanding X and O coach. Even he can't turn chickenshit into chicken salad. We need a hustler like Lavin to bring in future pros.

The smart alternative is to give CMA a lifetime job...and we move to a lesser conference we can dominate. I'd love basketball to be fun again.[/quote]

I think CMA will bring in the talent. It’s getting a lot better with the next class but I agree that we need a lot more. We were left with nothing with our two “best” almost on the way out. A team takes a few years to rebuild even if we landed the best players. Right now we just aren’t there nor even close talent-wise to the rest of the league. The main thing is we have a very good coach and as the talent gets better the team will look a lot better over coming years. None of us have much patience for it, but we made so many bad coaching hires in the past that it’s no easy/quick fix. That said, I’m hoping we find another 2 scholarships to use even this season. If we can land a center like Gray and maybe another talented wing, we’d be rebuilding a bit faster.[/quote]
Gray and maybe another talented wing still won't put us in the top 30.
 
[quote="newsman13" post=373726][quote="MCNPA" post=373724][quote="newsman13" post=373723][quote="Duke of Earlington" post=373706]It was a fun 1st half of the season, but tonight the nail was drilled into the coffin. Outside of winning the BE tourney, we have no hope of an ncaa tourney bid.

Realistically looking at this, it wont be till year 3 or 4 of CMA that we can have a really good team. And that is asuming he is going to get talent to come here.[/quote]

What, other than blind faith, makes you believe CMA will make us competitive in year three or four. We have no difference makers coming in next season. Fact is, this team has a mid-major stench to it. Why would anyone want to subject themselves to a loser career. CMA is an outstanding X and O coach. Even he can't turn chickenshit into chicken salad. We need a hustler like Lavin to bring in future pros.

The smart alternative is to give CMA a lifetime job...and we move to a lesser conference we can dominate. I'd love basketball to be fun again.[/quote]

I think CMA will bring in the talent. It’s getting a lot better with the next class but I agree that we need a lot more. We were left with nothing with our two “best” almost on the way out. A team takes a few years to rebuild even if we landed the best players. Right now we just aren’t there nor even close talent-wise to the rest of the league. The main thing is we have a very good coach and as the talent gets better the team will look a lot better over coming years. None of us have much patience for it, but we made so many bad coaching hires in the past that it’s no easy/quick fix. That said, I’m hoping we find another 2 scholarships to use even this season. If we can land a center like Gray and maybe another talented wing, we’d be rebuilding a bit faster.[/quote]
Gray and maybe another talented wing still won't put us in the top 30.[/quote]

I can’t say. We are a team that has very little talent-wise this year yet still have barrow loses to butler, the hall and have been in every game with a lot of bench guys making up 3/4 of the roster. That will change. Not instantly and the second year will be growing pains as well. The talent does need an overhaul and it won’t be in one More year before we are consistently winning. We are already competing though which is a near miracle jn and of itself. Year 3 of mike Anderson I think we start hitting our stride, and although longer than we all want it’s just the ship we build with bad decisions for years.
 
[quote="newsman13" post=373726][quote="MCNPA" post=373724][quote="newsman13" post=373723][quote="Duke of Earlington" post=373706]It was a fun 1st half of the season, but tonight the nail was drilled into the coffin. Outside of winning the BE tourney, we have no hope of an ncaa tourney bid.

Realistically looking at this, it wont be till year 3 or 4 of CMA that we can have a really good team. And that is asuming he is going to get talent to come here.[/quote]

What, other than blind faith, makes you believe CMA will make us competitive in year three or four. We have no difference makers coming in next season. Fact is, this team has a mid-major stench to it. Why would anyone want to subject themselves to a loser career. CMA is an outstanding X and O coach. Even he can't turn chickenshit into chicken salad. We need a hustler like Lavin to bring in future pros.

The smart alternative is to give CMA a lifetime job...and we move to a lesser conference we can dominate. I'd love basketball to be fun again.[/quote]

I think CMA will bring in the talent. It’s getting a lot better with the next class but I agree that we need a lot more. We were left with nothing with our two “best” almost on the way out. A team takes a few years to rebuild even if we landed the best players. Right now we just aren’t there nor even close talent-wise to the rest of the league. The main thing is we have a very good coach and as the talent gets better the team will look a lot better over coming years. None of us have much patience for it, but we made so many bad coaching hires in the past that it’s no easy/quick fix. That said, I’m hoping we find another 2 scholarships to use even this season. If we can land a center like Gray and maybe another talented wing, we’d be rebuilding a bit faster.[/quote]
Gray and maybe another talented wing still won't put us in the top 30.[/quote]

Of course not, but a step in right direction. That said, to really get competitive plane they will have to land impact kids over next two cycles.

By year 3 we’ll get a better sense of that. We have a solid leader and coach, but it is all about getting BE level players. To be frank, re returnees only Greg & Julian strike me as such. Complementary guys like Marcellus & Roberts are good to have, but not of the impact level need here imo. You can’t consistently rely on coaching up lesser talented kids.

Posh will be an obvious upgrade, but PG is hardest spot to master & be patient with his development. I hope Cole & Moore have a solid impact next season, but it is prudent not to assume too much out of gate with Jucos. Yes, we have examples of Jucos who did, but many did not. Rebuilding is tricky & warrants patience. CMA can coach. Now let’s see what the recruiting part of equation looks like over next several years. Lastly, staff knows far better than us that they need to free up several spots to upgrade roster.
 
While I can't blame fans like Newsman and Mike Z for their very pessimistic views given the past 2 decades of disappointment, I don't really understand how you can attribute to coach such a negative forward prognosis, given his past success etc. YES we are in a(nother) rebuild. YES, it is very disappointing. YES, we have the challenge of trying to attract and bring in BE caliber talent. YES, the BE is probably never going to be an easy conference. BUT, as fans, without optimism and hope, what's the point? This hire was unexpected but is miles and miles ahead of the past few hires. Got to give him a chance. If this does not work out after 3 or 4 years, then maybe it is time for the program to be right-oriented (I had advocated in the past, to criticism, for moving to another conference if there was not a commitment to do what it takes to compete in the BE). But, to me, it seems that hiring this coach is a move in the right direction, and a commitment to rebuilding the proud program to be competitive, and NOT a quick fix, unlike the past few hires (maybe Lavin being excluded from that).
 
[quote="Enright" post=373708]One of the many frustrating things about the season is that the coaches style of play appears to be working , SJU is averaging almost thirty steals plus turnovers a game. You can't expect that number to improve much if at all this year or next and yet not much to show for it.[/quote]

Heres the thing tough, this defense is feast or famine. It seems like for every steal/turnover we get, when the d doesnt work, we give up a wide open 3 or easy bucket.

So if we get a plus for every turnover the d causes, lets add a minus for every time the d gives up a wide open bucket. And if we do that, are we really on the positive side w/ this defense?
 
[quote="Duke of Earlington" post=373731][quote="Enright" post=373708]One of the many frustrating things about the season is that the coaches style of play appears to be working , SJU is averaging almost thirty steals plus turnovers a game. You can't expect that number to improve much if at all this year or next and yet not much to show for it.[/quote]

Heres the thing tough, this defense is feast or famine. It seems like for every steal/turnover we get, when the d doesnt work, we give up a wide open 3 or easy bucket.

So if we get a plus for every turnover the d causes, lets add a minus for every time the d gives up a wide open bucket. And if we do that, are we really on the positive side w/ this defense?[/quote]

That may be your perception but it isn’t true. We get a lot more out of those steals than we give up statistically. It’s why we are in every game. Last night Marquette made everything because they have Howard and most of their roster is top 60 kids that can shoot.
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=373729][quote="newsman13" post=373726][quote="MCNPA" post=373724][quote="newsman13" post=373723][quote="Duke of Earlington" post=373706]It was a fun 1st half of the season, but tonight the nail was drilled into the coffin. Outside of winning the BE tourney, we have no hope of an ncaa tourney bid.

Realistically looking at this, it wont be till year 3 or 4 of CMA that we can have a really good team. And that is asuming he is going to get talent to come here.[/quote]

What, other than blind faith, makes you believe CMA will make us competitive in year three or four. We have no difference makers coming in next season. Fact is, this team has a mid-major stench to it. Why would anyone want to subject themselves to a loser career. CMA is an outstanding X and O coach. Even he can't turn chickenshit into chicken salad. We need a hustler like Lavin to bring in future pros.

The smart alternative is to give CMA a lifetime job...and we move to a lesser conference we can dominate. I'd love basketball to be fun again.[/quote]

I think CMA will bring in the talent. It’s getting a lot better with the next class but I agree that we need a lot more. We were left with nothing with our two “best” almost on the way out. A team takes a few years to rebuild even if we landed the best players. Right now we just aren’t there nor even close talent-wise to the rest of the league. The main thing is we have a very good coach and as the talent gets better the team will look a lot better over coming years. None of us have much patience for it, but we made so many bad coaching hires in the past that it’s no easy/quick fix. That said, I’m hoping we find another 2 scholarships to use even this season. If we can land a center like Gray and maybe another talented wing, we’d be rebuilding a bit faster.[/quote]
Gray and maybe another talented wing still won't put us in the top 30.[/quote]

Of course not, but a step in right direction. That said, to really get competitive plane they will have to land impact kids over next two cycles.

By year 3 we’ll get a better sense of that. We have a solid leader and coach, but it is all about getting BE level players. To be frank, re returnees only Greg & Julian strike me as such. Complementary guys like Marcellus & Roberts are good to have, but not of the impact level need here imo. You can’t consistently rely on coaching up lesser talented kids.

Posh will be an obvious upgrade, but PG is hardest spot to master & be patient with his development. I hope Cole & Moore have a solid impact next season, but it is prudent not to assume too much out of gate with Jucos. Yes, we have examples of Jucos who did, but many did not. Rebuilding is tricky & warrants patience. CMA can coach. Now let’s see what the recruiting part of equation looks like over next several years. Lastly, staff knows far better than us that they need to free up several spots to upgrade roster.[/quote]

Agree with all of this Paultz except I think Roberts has big upside. He’s already showing dominating stretches defensively and when tasked to step up on offense lately he has. He has great hands and next level leaping ability that sets him apart. He needs much more offensive consistency, more strength and to keep expanding his offensive game overall but I think he’s a guy I’d put easily with Champagnie and Williams. He’s made great progress this year and has skills that can cause problems for other teams if he keeps developing at the rate he has this season.
 
My opinions are correlated with results and evidence. We have been something like 5-26 in conference play the last handful of years. I was very excited with the OOC performance, however it turned out to be obvious fool's gold. Believe me, I wish there were three 4 star guys with 2 being shooters and 1 being a big coming next year. That would give real hope because maybe we have several players who can shoot and perhaps a real big. But we don't have that coming in. We have a former 4 star Posh coming in but again coming off major injury and stats show he cannot shoot well. And he's like 5'9 and that's the highlight of our class. Cole's stats are exciting but we will see what he brings at this level. Wusu is a HS recruit, but he was recruited by schools like Wagner and St. Peter's. That's like MAAC level recruiting. I know you can't totally go off other offers to gauge a player's talent but it's probably a pretty good indicator.

I don't see that 4 star 6'11 260 lb center or a few big time shooters coming in aside from maybe Cole. Let me ask you guys, let's assume Cole shoots 50% from 3 for us next year. Great...who else is shooting? That's my point...no one else will be able to. So we would go from Heron and LJ who can make occasional 3's at least to Cole. That's from 2 to 1 3 PT threat and I see Posh essentially being Dunn. Rather going off emotion, I'm genuinely curious to see real responses to this.
 
[quote="MCNPA" post=373734][quote="Paultzman" post=373729][quote="newsman13" post=373726][quote="MCNPA" post=373724][quote="newsman13" post=373723][quote="Duke of Earlington" post=373706]It was a fun 1st half of the season, but tonight the nail was drilled into the coffin. Outside of winning the BE tourney, we have no hope of an ncaa tourney bid.

Realistically looking at this, it wont be till year 3 or 4 of CMA that we can have a really good team. And that is asuming he is going to get talent to come here.[/quote]

What, other than blind faith, makes you believe CMA will make us competitive in year three or four. We have no difference makers coming in next season. Fact is, this team has a mid-major stench to it. Why would anyone want to subject themselves to a loser career. CMA is an outstanding X and O coach. Even he can't turn chickenshit into chicken salad. We need a hustler like Lavin to bring in future pros.

The smart alternative is to give CMA a lifetime job...and we move to a lesser conference we can dominate. I'd love basketball to be fun again.[/quote]

I think CMA will bring in the talent. It’s getting a lot better with the next class but I agree that we need a lot more. We were left with nothing with our two “best” almost on the way out. A team takes a few years to rebuild even if we landed the best players. Right now we just aren’t there nor even close talent-wise to the rest of the league. The main thing is we have a very good coach and as the talent gets better the team will look a lot better over coming years. None of us have much patience for it, but we made so many bad coaching hires in the past that it’s no easy/quick fix. That said, I’m hoping we find another 2 scholarships to use even this season. If we can land a center like Gray and maybe another talented wing, we’d be rebuilding a bit faster.[/quote]
Gray and maybe another talented wing still won't put us in the top 30.[/quote]

Of course not, but a step in right direction. That said, to really get competitive plane they will have to land impact kids over next two cycles.

By year 3 we’ll get a better sense of that. We have a solid leader and coach, but it is all about getting BE level players. To be frank, re returnees only Greg & Julian strike me as such. Complementary guys like Marcellus & Roberts are good to have, but not of the impact level need here imo. You can’t consistently rely on coaching up lesser talented kids.

Posh will be an obvious upgrade, but PG is hardest spot to master & be patient with his development. I hope Cole & Moore have a solid impact next season, but it is prudent not to assume too much out of gate with Jucos. Yes, we have examples of Jucos who did, but many did not. Rebuilding is tricky & warrants patience. CMA can coach. Now let’s see what the recruiting part of equation looks like over next several years. Lastly, staff knows far better than us that they need to free up several spots to upgrade roster.[/quote]

Agree with all of this Paultz except I think Roberts has big upside. He’s already showing dominating stretches defensively and when tasked to step up on offense lately he has. He has great hands and next level leaping ability that sets him apart. He needs much more offensive consistency, more strength and to keep expanding his offensive game overall but I think he’s a guy I’d put easily with Champagnie and Williams. He’s made great progress this year and has skills that can cause problems for other teams if he keeps developing at the rate he has this season.[/quote]
Fair point.
 
I think Roberts and Earlington have shown themselves to be (now) BE level role players, with a chance over the next 2 years to elevate themselves. each has limitations, but if they play within themselves, could be 4 year 6th, 7th or 8th man BE players. Earlington reminds me a lot of some of the grinders we've had here (Singleton, Minland, Glover, even if those kids were more highly ranked and polished). The worry is that we won't be able to recruit players at the 1-6 spots (at varied positions) to compete. We've gotten by for the most part over the past decade with BE role player types, but without more or enough front liners. And of course, we've had a dearth of shooters and bigs as has been noted ad nauseum. This is the biggest challenge. Hoping coach can eventually pull it off.

[quote="Paultzman" post=373729][quote="newsman13" post=373726][quote="MCNPA" post=373724][quote="newsman13" post=373723][quote="Duke of Earlington" post=373706]It was a fun 1st half of the season, but tonight the nail was drilled into the coffin. Outside of winning the BE tourney, we have no hope of an ncaa tourney bid.

To be frank, re returnees only Greg & Julian strike me as such. Complementary guys like Marcellus & Roberts are good to have, but not of the impact level need here imo. You can’t consistently rely on coaching up lesser talented kids.
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=373735]My opinions are correlated with results and evidence. We have been something like 5-26 in conference play the last handful of years. I was very excited with the OOC performance, however it turned out to be obvious fool's gold. Believe me, I wish there were three 4 star guys with 2 being shooters and 1 being a big coming next year. That would give real hope because maybe we have several players who can shoot and perhaps a real big. But we don't have that coming in. We have a former 4 star Posh coming in but again coming off major injury and stats show he cannot shoot well. And he's like 5'9 and that's the highlight of our class. Cole's stats are exciting but we will see what he brings at this level. Wusu is a HS recruit, but he was recruited by schools like Wagner and St. Peter's. That's like MAAC level recruiting. I know you can't totally go off other offers to gauge a player's talent but it's probably a pretty good indicator.

I don't see that 4 star 6'11 260 lb center or a few big time shooters coming in aside from maybe Cole. Let me ask you guys, let's assume Cole shoots 50% from 3 for us next year. Great...who else is shooting? That's my point...no one else will be able to. So we would go from Heron and LJ who can make occasional 3's at least to Cole. That's from 2 to 1 3 PT threat and I see Posh essentially being Dunn. Rather going off emotion, I'm genuinely curious to see real responses to this.[/quote]

Coach Anderson has been on the job since April. And this season his roster is made up mostly of guys that he didn't recruit. Many of the current players simply don't fit his style of play. Maybe you should at least give him a year or two before you declare his career here an utter failure.
 
MCNPA-

Josh Roberts has great hands? Where did you come up with that gem? He's been better than he was last year, when he fumbled everything, but great hands? Not even close! Next level leaping ability? Has he even won an opening tap all year with that skill? Not suggesting that's a hugely important thing, but it's always nice to get on the board first.
 
Never said anywhere his career is a failure already. I said most on here seem to think Jordan Tucker, Omari Spellman, and Wragge are coming next year recruiting wise to save us but they aren't. One JUCO, one player we beat out St. Peter's & Wagner for, and one player who is 5'9 had a major injury and cannot shoot even if he slashes well. That's Rasheem Dunn 2.0. I don't think people realize the same talking points have been happening here for the better part of 10 years. The better part of the past 5 have not just been bad but awful. We all understand this is a rebuild but we really need to stop with this notion that it's ok to be at 1-6 or 0-11 or 0-18 because we're "rebuilding". There's enough talent here still to go 3-4 or something. The fact that so many are readily accepting 1-6, 0-11, 0-5, etc. starts just goes to show how far we have to go and how down we have been. CMA appeared to have coached the kids up in OOC but now they all stink when it really counts in Big East play. That original credit I gave him has been taken back and he has to earn it back. Let's all hope he does, because things will continue to be ugly if he doesn't knock the next class out of the park.
 
In conference:
37.7 from the field
69.7 from the line
27.7 from 3 point
A converted football player has been our most consistent player. CMA was dealt a horrible hand.
 
[quote="Jeff Smith" post=373742]In conference:
37.7 from the field
69.7 from the line
27.7 from 3 point
A converted football player has been our most consistent player. CMA was dealt a horrible hand.[/quote]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. I like to see the duke lose 10lbs and hit the jump rope this offseason. With a little spring in those legs he would be much better.
 
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