(POST-GAME) Marquette, Tues. Jan. 1, 7pm, FS1 / 970AM

I was not accusing you Monte or anyone in particular, just saying that it has been a constant theme to knock Trimble but he has a role. He's not as fast as Dixon but he is a little longer and he is actually a pretty good interior defender against much bigger guys. He also has some back to the basket game which we haven't seen this season but did a little last season. I'd say our most valuable interior defenders are Simon, Heron, Clark, Trimble in that order. Maybe Keita changes that list but Trimble still has something to offer and seems clearly to be looking to be a role player. I also agree with everything you said there. I really like Williams and this is how I saw him developing while some others were knocking him and saying he was a wasted scholarship.
 
[quote="Paul Massell" post=311475]I was not accusing you Monte or anyone in particular, just saying that it has been a constant theme to knock Trimble but he has a role. He's not as fast as Dixon but he is a little longer and he is actually a pretty good interior defender against much bigger guys. He also has some back to the basket game which we haven't seen this season but did a little last season. I'd say our most valuable interior defenders are Simon, Heron, Clark, Trimble in that order. Maybe Keita changes that list but Trimble still has something to offer and seems clearly to be looking to be a role player. I also agree with everything you said there. I really like Williams and this is how I saw him developing while some others were knocking him and saying he was a wasted scholarship.[/quote]

Paul, I think we have had so few true freshman with potential to develop that people forget what it takes. Williams is coming along nicely. Little by little I expect his role as a back-up this year to increase. By year 2-3 he will have an opportunity to play even more and maybe fight to be a starter. Some forget JUCO's come in with playing time under their belts and (at least to me) more experience closer to D1 level.
I also would not give up on Roberts yet either. Bigger kids sometimes take even longer especially ones that aren't 5 stars in HS to begin with. If I recall, Paultz tempered expectations on this board regarding Roberts. I think he mentioned something about staff expecting less than some were thinking from a contribution standpoint this year on this board. That is exactly what has happened and was spot on accurate. Now if Roberts wants to stay and develop or look to leave for greener pastures that is another question. I hope for patience from fans and player alike.
 
JPM114 blog take;

St. John's (Almost) Perfect Response Moves Them Past Marquette 89-69

The sellout crowd at Carnesecca Arena, which was hoping for a great response following St. John’s controversial loss to Seton Hall on Saturday could not have asked for anything more. In fact, save for one late turnover that occurred when Shamorie Ponds stepped on the sideline with the help of some bumping by a Marquette trap, their second half was almost perfect.

The first half of what would be a convincing 89-69 win for the Johnnies over the Golden Eagles wasn’t too bad either. And Shamorie Ponds, like his team roared back from Saturday’s loss in front of a home crowd that not only sold out the gym, but one that was easily the most engaged of the season. Ponds got St. John’s started early when he sandwiched a three-pointer around two driving baskets that resulted in two “hoop & harm” three-point plays. After the Red Storm took an early 19-14 lead the visitors responded with a 7-0 run and took a 21-19 advantage. The two teams traded baskets for a time after that and St. John’s effort, though strong in those moments was sabotaged, by 9 turnovers. Despite those early miscues St. John’s took a 39-31 lead into the locker room at half time as Marvin Clark, who had 22 points for the game including 4 triples, and Ponds led the way on a 14-6 half closing run.

Two Mustapha Heron free throws to open the second half gave St. John’s a 10-point lead. After the Johnnies traded baskets with Marquette to maintain that margin, they used a 12-4 spurt to push the lead to 18 that concluded with a corner triple from Heron off a great inside out pass from Clark.

The nearly total absence of turnovers may have been the key factor in helping St. John’s salt away a big win but it was one of several things that they did well and that stood in direct contrast to the loss on Saturday. They fought the Eagles to a 35-35 standoff on the boards after they were out-rebounded by 15 on Saturday and, perhaps most important, they continued to score against Marquette after failing to register a field goal in the game’s last 5-plus minutes on Saturday. Add in five double figure scorers, including Heron scoring all of his 16 in the second half, holding Marquette to 29% from beyond the arc and the Big East’s leading scorer Markus Howard to a 2-15 shooting night and St. John’s had the formula exactly the kind of win they needed following a game where they did not play well but put themselves in position to win but did not play well on Saturday were it not for what the officials errors. In response to a question about Ponds’ 26-point bounce back performance coach Chris Mullin began by saying simply;
“I’m just glad he played well, I know he didn’t feel good about the game (Saturday).” could have been speaking about the entire team which now must take the positive of a big win on the road for a two- game swing that begins at Georgetown on Saturday. The road trip will be another test and, hopefully for St. John’s another step in the right direction.

http://newyorkbasketball.blogspot.com/2019/01/st-johns-almost-perfect-response-moves.html
 
[quote="IDRAFT" post=311404]Feel compelled to add one more item. Having the team ready to roll and play focused so soon after the crazy Seton Hall game is easier said than done. And for 18-23 year old kids much easier said than done. Think about how hard it was for US to let it all go.

Impressive.[/quote]

Well you only have 2 choices.
You can cry about it, and feel bad for yourself and say this isn't fair, or get really pissed off and take the rest of the season personal, and take it out on everyone we play.

"Think about how hard it was for US to let it all go."
You're wrong there Draft, I'm still real pissed over that bs loss last Saturday, and will be pissed off about that game all season. Maybe others can let it all go, but it really bothers me that these kids got robbed of a win.
 
[quote="panther2" post=311299][quote="Ray Morgan" post=311255][quote="Chicago Days" post=311244][quote="Ray Morgan" post=311229]I am retiring at the end of this week. My thanks to the team for a great retirement present![/quote]

Ah, you’re just saying that now after this fabulous and dominating win! If God forbid, they had stumbled, you would’ve delayed that retirement, right?!?
Lol.
Congrats Ray, enjoy your golden years that coincided with St. John’s back in the national basketball conversation![/quote]

You wouldn't believe how many people told me it's foolish to retire. The line I hear most is" "Won't you be bored?" Nothing could have been more boring than work. Now I won't have an excuse not to watch our guys live in the dance.[/quote]



Ray Morgan, I have been retired for seven years and am enjoying life. I am never bored. My wife and I travel, raise our 12 year old granddaughter. Go to the gym, to be honest my wife more than me. I try to attend as many St Johns games as possible. Attend my granddaughter's track and cross country meets. I have been volunteering at the Out Patient Substance Abuse program at Queens Hospital every Friday morning since I retired. My wife and I go to the movies, usually catch the 10am show and then have lunch. There are so many things to do, that sometimes I just stop and take a day to stay home and read.

Congratulations on your retirement, hope that you enjoy yourself.[/quote]


Panther 2 , you are one of the classiest Johnnies and a great person representing St.John's. Thank you.
 
[quote="JackofVirginia" post=311493][quote="panther2" post=311299][quote="Ray Morgan" post=311255][quote="Chicago Days" post=311244][quote="Ray Morgan" post=311229]I am retiring at the end of this week. My thanks to the team for a great retirement present![/quote]

Ah, you’re just saying that now after this fabulous and dominating win! If God forbid, they had stumbled, you would’ve delayed that retirement, right?!?
Lol.
Congrats Ray, enjoy your golden years that coincided with St. John’s back in the national basketball conversation![/quote]

You wouldn't believe how many people told me it's foolish to retire. The line I hear most is" "Won't you be bored?" Nothing could have been more boring than work. Now I won't have an excuse not to watch our guys live in the dance.[/quote]



Ray Morgan, I have been retired for seven years and am enjoying life. I am never bored. My wife and I travel, raise our 12 year old granddaughter. Go to the gym, to be honest my wife more than me. I try to attend as many St Johns games as possible. Attend my granddaughter's track and cross country meets. I have been volunteering at the Out Patient Substance Abuse program at Queens Hospital every Friday morning since I retired. My wife and I go to the movies, usually catch the 10am show and then have lunch. There are so many things to do, that sometimes I just stop and take a day to stay home and read.

Congratulations on your retirement, hope that you enjoy yourself.[/quote]


Panther 2 , you are one of the classiest Johnnies and a great person representing St.John's. Thank you.[/quote]




Appreciate your sentiments Jack, looking forward to having an opportunity to talk with you again. Happy New Year.
 
It probably has taken too long for many supporters but the team SJU put on the court this past couple of weeks has the look of a well tuned squad. On the offensive side they play Mullin's style of taking the open shot. They pass the ball around, rarely forcing a shot until someone has an open look at the basket.
On the defensive side closing out on three point shooters has always been a problem up to the recent games. Are the players working harder? I don't know but the results are obvious. They shut down the Marquette guard last night and he will be one of the better offensive players they see this year. Then they went after him on offense because of his small size and slight build, similar to what Dixon is up against, and he ended up sitting on the bench for some stretches.
College basketball is a game of errors so the results will never be perfect but if you turn on a game tonight and watch two other teams you may come away impressed just how good SJU is playing right now.
 
I think as a social experiment, I think it would be interesting if we weren't allowed to post about a game until after the following game.

So for example, those who were very negative on our coaching staff and hero ball after the Seton Hall game might post something very different regarding that game after the Marquette game. Those proclaiming us to have the best starting five and great coaching after the Marquette game might post differently if we don't do as well in Georgetown.

The nature of the game is that winning for fans cures all ills. Losing causes ailments to be diagnosed that simply do not exist.

The truth is somewhere in the middle, leaning one way or another. It should remind us to be balanced the rest of the way.
 
Last edited:
I like the 9 players we have in the mix, with the bulk of playing time going to the starting 5. We now can have fresh legs late in the game.
 
[quote="Knight" post=311508]I like the 9 players we have in the mix, with the bulk of playing time going to the starting 5. We now can have fresh legs late in the game.[/quote]

Very good point.The Kieta addition is huge. Do not count Dixon out.In certain games he will be necessary. Brings speed and scoring as well as good on the ball defender on quicker guards. He needs to improve off the ball. This is very important in our defensive scheme given our lack of size at certain points in the game.Williams is picking this area up and is earning minutes.
 
Last edited:
[quote="Beast of the East" post=311507]I think as a social experiment, I think it would be interesting if we weren't allowed to post about a game until after the following game.

So for example, those who were very negative on our coaching staff and hero ball after the Seton Hall game might post something very different regarding that game after the Marquette game. Those proclaiming us to have the best starting five and great coaching after the Marquette game might post differently if we don't do as well in Georgetown.

The nature of the game is that winning for fans cures all ills. Losing causes ailments to be diagnosed that simply do not exist.

The truth is somewhere in the middle, leaning one way or another. It should remind us to be balanced the rest of the way.[/quote]

Being critical of how we played the last 10 minutes of the SH game(IE hero ball, etc) and being critical of the staff during that time, was not a case of diaganosing ailments that did not exist. Those ailments very much existed, and will continue to exist(on occasion) if the staff and the team do not make efforts to see that they don’t. The fact we annihilated Marquette doesn’t change my opinion about the how we played against SH or what kind of team we have. The team we saw yesterday is the team that we are capable of being, and should be, on most nights.
 
[quote="Monte" post=311518][quote="Beast of the East" post=311507]I think as a social experiment, I think it would be interesting if we weren't allowed to post about a game until after the following game.

So for example, those who were very negative on our coaching staff and hero ball after the Seton Hall game might post something very different regarding that game after the Marquette game. Those proclaiming us to have the best starting five and great coaching after the Marquette game might post differently if we don't do as well in Georgetown.

The nature of the game is that winning for fans cures all ills. Losing causes ailments to be diagnosed that simply do not exist.

The truth is somewhere in the middle, leaning one way or another. It should remind us to be balanced the rest of the way.[/quote]

Being critical of how we played the last 10 minutes of the SH game(IE hero ball, etc) and being critical of the staff during that time, was not a case of diaganosing ailments that did not exist. Those ailments very much existed, and will continue to exist(on occasion) if the staff and the team do not make efforts to see that they don’t. The fact we annihilated Marquette doesn’t change my opinion about the how we played against SH or what kind of team we have. The team we saw yesterday is the team that we are capable of being, and should be, on most nights.[/quote]

That part of the SH game fell on coaching.When the team is out of sorts TO's must be called more often and particular offensive sets need to be established to put the proper kids in position to score, get fouled or make an aggressive play to the basket that leads to offensive rebounding. Hopefully, our staff has learned from this. Scoring in the last four minutes of a tight game is much different then scoring in the first four minutes.
 
It’s only “hero ball” if we lose.

Against Seton Hall both Heron and Clark missed good looks and both Ponds and Heron missed front ends of FTs. Ponds also missed some deep 3s that he hit last night. If any of those shots fall, we beat Seton Hall.
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=311515]Social experiments, oh my. :)[/quote]

Lions and tigers and bears.
Great win. Oh my.
This team, like life, has a path and a process.
There will be more Ws and Ls but we got glimpse of a possibly exhilarating 2019!

Blessings for the new year.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=311507]I think as a social experiment, I think it would be interesting if we weren't allowed to post about a game until after the following game.

So for example, those who were very negative on our coaching staff and hero ball after the Seton Hall game might post something very different regarding that game after the Marquette game. Those proclaiming us to have the best starting five and great coaching after the Marquette game might post differently if we don't do as well in Georgetown.

The nature of the game is that winning for fans cures all ills. Losing causes ailments to be diagnosed that simply do not exist.

The truth is somewhere in the middle, leaning one way or another. It should remind us to be balanced the rest of the way.[/quote]

Great idea! You start it off. Don't post after the Georgetown game. ;)
As for the Seton Hall game we won me thinks the emphasis was more on how we got but fckd and not coaching. We do have the best starting 5 in the conference. But 13 players make up a basketball team so some may justifiably think we may not be the best team. Come to think of it I don't think anyone here even picked us in the top 3 at the beginning of the season. Well, maybe you did but now that we finally have a 6th man we may soon be the best team. I'm enjoying this group of kids more than any in the past 7 years. It's great being 14-0 and yes, the coaching is improving. It could be better next season when Mitch moves back to his natural position.
 
[quote="stjohnnie75" post=311523]It’s only “hero ball” if we lose.

Against Seton Hall both Heron and Clark missed good looks and both Ponds and Heron missed front ends of FTs. Ponds also missed some deep 3s that he hit last night. If any of those shots fall, we beat Seton Hall.[/quote]

I mention this more towards the ball not moving.Coach indicated this in the press conference after the game.He used the term the ball got stuck. My suggestion is to help prevent the ball from not sticking and increasing your chances for offensive success down the stretch the coaching staff needs to have a greater input into offensive structure.
 
Last edited:
[quote="Monte" post=311518][quote="Beast of the East" post=311507]I think as a social experiment, I think it would be interesting if we weren't allowed to post about a game until after the following game.

So for example, those who were very negative on our coaching staff and hero ball after the Seton Hall game might post something very different regarding that game after the Marquette game. Those proclaiming us to have the best starting five and great coaching after the Marquette game might post differently if we don't do as well in Georgetown.

The nature of the game is that winning for fans cures all ills. Losing causes ailments to be diagnosed that simply do not exist.

The truth is somewhere in the middle, leaning one way or another. It should remind us to be balanced the rest of the way.[/quote]

Being critical of how we played the last 10 minutes of the SH game(IE hero ball, etc) and being critical of the staff during that time, was not a case of diaganosing ailments that did not exist. Those ailments very much existed, and will continue to exist(on occasion) if the staff and the team do not make efforts to see that they don’t. The fact we annihilated Marquette doesn’t change my opinion about the how we played against SH or what kind of team we have. The team we saw yesterday is the team that we are capable of being, and should be, on most nights.[/quote]

That wasn't an attack on you. OF course they played poorly in the last quarter of the game. No question. But in college, against good competition, this happens often on the road, where you suddenly stop doing the things you were doing well, the crowd gets into it and all of a sudden your opponent lifts its play. It wasn't bad coaching, and it wasn't really "hero ball", it was the team collectively losing steam on the road. They will play as well or nearly as well as they did vs. Marquette, and also play as poorly as they did for those 8 minutes vs. SH. It's part of basketball to be that good or that bad in isolated situations - it's how teams have a couple of good runs per game.

My point is that to overanalyze it and call it symptomatic of one guy being selfish, the team falling apart, or bad coaching is just as off based as proclaiming us one of the best teams in the country. Now if we player a ton of 8 minute stretches like that, the team sucks and the coaches get fired. If we play 40 minutes like to did vs. Marquette for an entire season, we go to the Final Four, maybe further. But it's just to temper what we see, and just view the season as one long process evens out the highs and lows, kind of like some psychotropic drugs do.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=311526][quote="Beast of the East" post=311507]I think as a social experiment, I think it would be interesting if we weren't allowed to post about a game until after the following game.

So for example, those who were very negative on our coaching staff and hero ball after the Seton Hall game might post something very different regarding that game after the Marquette game. Those proclaiming us to have the best starting five and great coaching after the Marquette game might post differently if we don't do as well in Georgetown.

The nature of the game is that winning for fans cures all ills. Losing causes ailments to be diagnosed that simply do not exist.

The truth is somewhere in the middle, leaning one way or another. It should remind us to be balanced the rest of the way.[/quote]

Great idea! You start it off. Don't post after the Georgetown game. ;)
As for the Seton Hall game we won me thinks the emphasis was more on how we got but fckd and not coaching. We do have the best starting 5 in the conference. But 13 players make up a basketball team so some may justifiably think we may not be the best team. Come to think of it I don't think anyone here even picked us in the top 3 at the beginning of the season. Well, maybe you did but now that we finally have a 6th man we may soon be the best team. I'm enjoying this group of kids more than any in the past 7 years. It's great being 14-0 and yes, the coaching is improving. It could be better next season when Mitch moves back to his natural position.[/quote]

TBH I picked us at 10-8 or 11-7, and haven't wavered much. The home and homes are killers and you end up splitting with a fair number of teams you are better than on a neutral court. That would put us in the tournament in 4th-6th place I guess.

As for the Seton Hall game, a couple of poster blamed the letdown on hero ball and coaching as being more important than the bad call leading up to the loss, but quickly backed off after the tide here focused on how we got screwed. A couple of those guys know everything though.
 
Last edited:
[quote="RJGBOOTSY" post=311520]

That part of the SH game fell on coaching.When the team is out of sorts TO's must be called more often and particular offensive sets need to be established to put the proper kids in position to score, get fouled or make an aggressive play to the basket that leads to offensive rebounding. Hopefully, our staff has learned from this. Scoring in the last four minutes of a tight game is much different then scoring in the first four minutes.[/quote]

This plus 1 million. Problem is in this positionless/playless style of offense do they actually have those sets to run? Offense seems to run on instinct and it's easy to forget that under extreme duress, structure is a little easier to stick to if it exists, especially on the road. 1 or 2 quality possessions in the last 5 minutes and they're not in a position to lose due to the whistle. Of course having 2 80% FT shooters hit their front ends would have accomplished the same. Looks like the team is very comfortable at home but they're going to need a few road wins to make the dance.
 
Back
Top