(POST-GAME) Marquette, Tues. Jan. 1, 7pm, FS1 / 970AM
- Thread starter Knight
- Start date
[quote="austour" post=311574][quote="RJGBOOTSY" post=311520]
That part of the SH game fell on coaching.When the team is out of sorts TO's must be called more often and particular offensive sets need to be established to put the proper kids in position to score, get fouled or make an aggressive play to the basket that leads to offensive rebounding. Hopefully, our staff has learned from this. Scoring in the last four minutes of a tight game is much different then scoring in the first four minutes.[/quote]
This plus 1 million. Problem is in this positionless/playless style of offense do they actually have those sets to run? Offense seems to run on instinct and it's easy to forget that under extreme duress, structure is a little easier to stick to if it exists, especially on the road. 1 or 2 quality possessions in the last 5 minutes and they're not in a position to lose due to the whistle. Of course having 2 80% FT shooters hit their front ends would have accomplished the same. Looks like the team is very comfortable at home but they're going to need a few road wins to make the dance.[/quote]
They have sets as the applied a couple of them to get Heron to the foul line and the 3 by Clark. This is an area where I believe coaching will improve. Just as scoring is hard in the late part of the game coaching is hard as well. This is an area of improvement. I do not even mind isolation plays as long as they are planned and the right isolation is established.
That part of the SH game fell on coaching.When the team is out of sorts TO's must be called more often and particular offensive sets need to be established to put the proper kids in position to score, get fouled or make an aggressive play to the basket that leads to offensive rebounding. Hopefully, our staff has learned from this. Scoring in the last four minutes of a tight game is much different then scoring in the first four minutes.[/quote]
This plus 1 million. Problem is in this positionless/playless style of offense do they actually have those sets to run? Offense seems to run on instinct and it's easy to forget that under extreme duress, structure is a little easier to stick to if it exists, especially on the road. 1 or 2 quality possessions in the last 5 minutes and they're not in a position to lose due to the whistle. Of course having 2 80% FT shooters hit their front ends would have accomplished the same. Looks like the team is very comfortable at home but they're going to need a few road wins to make the dance.[/quote]
They have sets as the applied a couple of them to get Heron to the foul line and the 3 by Clark. This is an area where I believe coaching will improve. Just as scoring is hard in the late part of the game coaching is hard as well. This is an area of improvement. I do not even mind isolation plays as long as they are planned and the right isolation is established.
[quote="Section3" post=311576]A packed MSG is tough to beat. But, a sold out and raucous CA, with less opposing fans is a real home court advantage.[/quote]
On one of the Marquette fan forums, a fan who was in attendance complained that our fans were obnoxious but that the bandbox environment was a great advantage for us ... and that the place was incredibly loud! Great to hear, especially for those of us who've experienced long periods of morgue-like atmosphere at CA. Just hope it continues.
On one of the Marquette fan forums, a fan who was in attendance complained that our fans were obnoxious but that the bandbox environment was a great advantage for us ... and that the place was incredibly loud! Great to hear, especially for those of us who've experienced long periods of morgue-like atmosphere at CA. Just hope it continues.
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Moose
Well-known member
[quote="redken" post=311582][quote="Section3" post=311576]A packed MSG is tough to beat. But, a sold out and raucous CA, with less opposing fans is a real home court advantage.[/quote]
On one of the Marquette fan forums, a fan who was in attendance complained that our fans were obnoxious but that the bandbox environment was a great advantage for us ... and that the place was incredibly loud! Great to hear, especially for those of us who've experienced long periods of morque-like atmosphere. Just hope it continues.[/quote]
Couldn't have been obnoxious. I wasn't there
On one of the Marquette fan forums, a fan who was in attendance complained that our fans were obnoxious but that the bandbox environment was a great advantage for us ... and that the place was incredibly loud! Great to hear, especially for those of us who've experienced long periods of morque-like atmosphere. Just hope it continues.[/quote]
Couldn't have been obnoxious. I wasn't there
[quote="MarkRedman" post=311358]Dickie V:
"A flat out A+ performance by St John's. Chris Mullin should be PROUD. They dominated a quality club in Marquette. Very impressive tonight".[/quote]
Dickie V May have his favorites but think he genuinely likes the Johnnies and Mullin.
"A flat out A+ performance by St John's. Chris Mullin should be PROUD. They dominated a quality club in Marquette. Very impressive tonight".[/quote]
Dickie V May have his favorites but think he genuinely likes the Johnnies and Mullin.
[quote="Manhattan1" post=311425]My favorite part of the evening was being told by a fellow fan to sit down for giving them an ovation after a Marquette TO after back to back dunks.
Still have some miserable people (Fans) who show up at these games.[/quote]
Don’t listen. Like many on this board, I’ve been going to the games for 44 years and I still cheer like I am 18. College is the only level where it’s acceptable to talk in terms of “we” and “us”. So, go for it. The team needs it and recruits expect to see it. .
Still have some miserable people (Fans) who show up at these games.[/quote]
Don’t listen. Like many on this board, I’ve been going to the games for 44 years and I still cheer like I am 18. College is the only level where it’s acceptable to talk in terms of “we” and “us”. So, go for it. The team needs it and recruits expect to see it. .
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[quote="SJU1512" post=311472][quote="austour" post=311427][quote="IDRAFT" post=311404]Feel compelled to add one more item. Having the team ready to roll and play focused so soon after the crazy Seton Hall game is easier said than done. And for 18-23 year old kids much easier said than done. Think about how hard it was for US to let it all go.
Impressive.[/quote]
Interesting point. I think that one key advantage of this team, despite the fact that there are many new parts, is that the top players, besides LJ who is wise beyond his experience anyway, are all of upperclassman age and in their third to fifth year in an NCAA program. Ponds/3, Heron/3, Simon/4, Clark/5. Even Keita/3 and Dixon/3 have some experience. Of course relying on transfers greatly abets this situation but still it's good to have experience.[/quote]
All excellent points.
On LJ, the seamless transition he's had to this level is incredible and I think sometimes we tend to take it for granted when it goes as well as it has for him.
You take a look at his game log and it's not just the upside production (which is clear) but the consistency that is frankly staggering. Been in double digits in 12 of 14 games, never below 8, has grabbed 7 or more boards in 8 of 14 and is leading the team by over a full RPG, and is shooting 54/40 which is insane.
There isn't a single game he hasn't shown up, the closest thing to an off game is probably GT and his numbers in that game are pretty similar to what SJU held Powell to on Saturday.
Add to all this he's a plus plus defender (shutdown on ball as well as team concept), plays with seemingly relentless energy, and does a lot of extra things almost every game.
None of this is easy to do and he has made it look easy. Outstanding player and we are lucky to have him at SJU.[/quote]
And NEVER, EVER forces the issue. Plays within the game. A true winner.
Impressive.[/quote]
Interesting point. I think that one key advantage of this team, despite the fact that there are many new parts, is that the top players, besides LJ who is wise beyond his experience anyway, are all of upperclassman age and in their third to fifth year in an NCAA program. Ponds/3, Heron/3, Simon/4, Clark/5. Even Keita/3 and Dixon/3 have some experience. Of course relying on transfers greatly abets this situation but still it's good to have experience.[/quote]
All excellent points.
On LJ, the seamless transition he's had to this level is incredible and I think sometimes we tend to take it for granted when it goes as well as it has for him.
You take a look at his game log and it's not just the upside production (which is clear) but the consistency that is frankly staggering. Been in double digits in 12 of 14 games, never below 8, has grabbed 7 or more boards in 8 of 14 and is leading the team by over a full RPG, and is shooting 54/40 which is insane.
There isn't a single game he hasn't shown up, the closest thing to an off game is probably GT and his numbers in that game are pretty similar to what SJU held Powell to on Saturday.
Add to all this he's a plus plus defender (shutdown on ball as well as team concept), plays with seemingly relentless energy, and does a lot of extra things almost every game.
None of this is easy to do and he has made it look easy. Outstanding player and we are lucky to have him at SJU.[/quote]
And NEVER, EVER forces the issue. Plays within the game. A true winner.
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Class of 72
Active member
[quote="Beast of the East" post=311531][quote="Class of 72" post=311526][quote="Beast of the East" post=311507]I think as a social experiment, I think it would be interesting if we weren't allowed to post about a game until after the following game.
So for example, those who were very negative on our coaching staff and hero ball after the Seton Hall game might post something very different regarding that game after the Marquette game. Those proclaiming us to have the best starting five and great coaching after the Marquette game might post differently if we don't do as well in Georgetown.
The nature of the game is that winning for fans cures all ills. Losing causes ailments to be diagnosed that simply do not exist.
The truth is somewhere in the middle, leaning one way or another. It should remind us to be balanced the rest of the way.[/quote]
Great idea! You start it off. Don't post after the Georgetown game.
As for the Seton Hall game we won me thinks the emphasis was more on how we got but fckd and not coaching. We do have the best starting 5 in the conference. But 13 players make up a basketball team so some may justifiably think we may not be the best team. Come to think of it I don't think anyone here even picked us in the top 3 at the beginning of the season. Well, maybe you did but now that we finally have a 6th man we may soon be the best team. I'm enjoying this group of kids more than any in the past 7 years. It's great being 14-0 and yes, the coaching is improving. It could be better next season when Mitch moves back to his natural position.[/quote]
TBH I picked us at 10-8 or 11-7, and haven't wavered much. The home and homes are killers and you end up splitting with a fair number of teams you are better than on a neutral court. That would put us in the tournament in 4th-6th place I guess.
As for the Seton Hall game, a couple of poster blamed the letdown on hero ball and coaching as being more important than the bad call leading up to the loss, but quickly backed off after the tide here focused on how we got screwed. A couple of those guys know everything though.[/quote]
I agree with your 11-7 and I think 24 regular season wins gets us to the dance but if we stay healthy and focused we could finally have a chance to get to the championship game of the BE tourney and that would guarantee an NCAA tournament invitation.
So for example, those who were very negative on our coaching staff and hero ball after the Seton Hall game might post something very different regarding that game after the Marquette game. Those proclaiming us to have the best starting five and great coaching after the Marquette game might post differently if we don't do as well in Georgetown.
The nature of the game is that winning for fans cures all ills. Losing causes ailments to be diagnosed that simply do not exist.
The truth is somewhere in the middle, leaning one way or another. It should remind us to be balanced the rest of the way.[/quote]
Great idea! You start it off. Don't post after the Georgetown game.
As for the Seton Hall game we won me thinks the emphasis was more on how we got but fckd and not coaching. We do have the best starting 5 in the conference. But 13 players make up a basketball team so some may justifiably think we may not be the best team. Come to think of it I don't think anyone here even picked us in the top 3 at the beginning of the season. Well, maybe you did but now that we finally have a 6th man we may soon be the best team. I'm enjoying this group of kids more than any in the past 7 years. It's great being 14-0 and yes, the coaching is improving. It could be better next season when Mitch moves back to his natural position.[/quote]
TBH I picked us at 10-8 or 11-7, and haven't wavered much. The home and homes are killers and you end up splitting with a fair number of teams you are better than on a neutral court. That would put us in the tournament in 4th-6th place I guess.
As for the Seton Hall game, a couple of poster blamed the letdown on hero ball and coaching as being more important than the bad call leading up to the loss, but quickly backed off after the tide here focused on how we got screwed. A couple of those guys know everything though.[/quote]
I agree with your 11-7 and I think 24 regular season wins gets us to the dance but if we stay healthy and focused we could finally have a chance to get to the championship game of the BE tourney and that would guarantee an NCAA tournament invitation.
[quote="Class of 72" post=311526][quote="Beast of the East" post=311507]I think as a social experiment, I think it would be interesting if we weren't allowed to post about a game until after the following game.
So for example, those who were very negative on our coaching staff and hero ball after the Seton Hall game might post something very different regarding that game after the Marquette game. Those proclaiming us to have the best starting five and great coaching after the Marquette game might post differently if we don't do as well in Georgetown.
The nature of the game is that winning for fans cures all ills. Losing causes ailments to be diagnosed that simply do not exist.
The truth is somewhere in the middle, leaning one way or another. It should remind us to be balanced the rest of the way.[/quote]
Great idea! You start it off. Don't post after the Georgetown game.
As for the Seton Hall game we won me thinks the emphasis was more on how we got but fckd and not coaching. We do have the best starting 5 in the conference. But 13 players make up a basketball team so some may justifiably think we may not be the best team. Come to think of it I don't think anyone here even picked us in the top 3 at the beginning of the season. Well, maybe you did but now that we finally have a 6th man we may soon be the best team. I'm enjoying this group of kids more than any in the past 7 years. It's great being 14-0 and yes, the coaching is improving. It could be better next season when Mitch moves back to his natural position.[/quote]
Recognize we still need another body on the recruiting trail...but I see MR as being a much more engaged and vocal AC. And, based on player and insider comments it seems like he is having an impact in the development area.
So for example, those who were very negative on our coaching staff and hero ball after the Seton Hall game might post something very different regarding that game after the Marquette game. Those proclaiming us to have the best starting five and great coaching after the Marquette game might post differently if we don't do as well in Georgetown.
The nature of the game is that winning for fans cures all ills. Losing causes ailments to be diagnosed that simply do not exist.
The truth is somewhere in the middle, leaning one way or another. It should remind us to be balanced the rest of the way.[/quote]
Great idea! You start it off. Don't post after the Georgetown game.
As for the Seton Hall game we won me thinks the emphasis was more on how we got but fckd and not coaching. We do have the best starting 5 in the conference. But 13 players make up a basketball team so some may justifiably think we may not be the best team. Come to think of it I don't think anyone here even picked us in the top 3 at the beginning of the season. Well, maybe you did but now that we finally have a 6th man we may soon be the best team. I'm enjoying this group of kids more than any in the past 7 years. It's great being 14-0 and yes, the coaching is improving. It could be better next season when Mitch moves back to his natural position.[/quote]
Recognize we still need another body on the recruiting trail...but I see MR as being a much more engaged and vocal AC. And, based on player and insider comments it seems like he is having an impact in the development area.
[quote="redken" post=311582][quote="Section3" post=311576]A packed MSG is tough to beat. But, a sold out and raucous CA, with less opposing fans is a real home court advantage.[/quote]
On one of the Marquette fan forums, a fan who was in attendance complained that our fans were obnoxious but that the bandbox environment was a great advantage for us ... and that the place was incredibly loud! Great to hear, especially for those of us who've experienced long periods of morque-like atmosphere at CA. Just hope it continues.[/quote]
Yesterday’s crowd sounded as loud and as engaged as any crowd I’ve ever heard while watching on TV. Kudos to everyone that was there. Well except maybe for the dick who told Manhattan1 to sit down when he was giving the team a standing O during a Marquette TO
On one of the Marquette fan forums, a fan who was in attendance complained that our fans were obnoxious but that the bandbox environment was a great advantage for us ... and that the place was incredibly loud! Great to hear, especially for those of us who've experienced long periods of morque-like atmosphere at CA. Just hope it continues.[/quote]
Yesterday’s crowd sounded as loud and as engaged as any crowd I’ve ever heard while watching on TV. Kudos to everyone that was there. Well except maybe for the dick who told Manhattan1 to sit down when he was giving the team a standing O during a Marquette TO
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[quote="Beast of the East" post=311529][quote="Monte" post=311518][quote="Beast of the East" post=311507]I think as a social experiment, I think it would be interesting if we weren't allowed to post about a game until after the following game.
So for example, those who were very negative on our coaching staff and hero ball after the Seton Hall game might post something very different regarding that game after the Marquette game. Those proclaiming us to have the best starting five and great coaching after the Marquette game might post differently if we don't do as well in Georgetown.
The nature of the game is that winning for fans cures all ills. Losing causes ailments to be diagnosed that simply do not exist.
The truth is somewhere in the middle, leaning one way or another. It should remind us to be balanced the rest of the way.[/quote]
Being critical of how we played the last 10 minutes of the SH game(IE hero ball, etc) and being critical of the staff during that time, was not a case of diaganosing ailments that did not exist. Those ailments very much existed, and will continue to exist(on occasion) if the staff and the team do not make efforts to see that they don’t. The fact we annihilated Marquette doesn’t change my opinion about the how we played against SH or what kind of team we have. The team we saw yesterday is the team that we are capable of being, and should be, on most nights.[/quote]
That wasn't an attack on you. OF course they played poorly in the last quarter of the game. No question. But in college, against good competition, this happens often on the road, where you suddenly stop doing the things you were doing well, the crowd gets into it and all of a sudden your opponent lifts its play. It wasn't bad coaching, and it wasn't really "hero ball", it was the team collectively losing steam on the road. They will play as well or nearly as well as they did vs. Marquette, and also play as poorly as they did for those 8 minutes vs. SH. It's part of basketball to be that good or that bad in isolated situations - it's how teams have a couple of good runs per game.
My point is that to overanalyze it and call it symptomatic of one guy being selfish, the team falling apart, or bad coaching is just as off based as proclaiming us one of the best teams in the country. Now if we player a ton of 8 minute stretches like that, the team sucks and the coaches get fired. If we play 40 minutes like to did vs. Marquette for an entire season, we go to the Final Four, maybe further. But it's just to temper what we see, and just view the season as one long process evens out the highs and lows, kind of like some psychotropic drugs do.[/quote]
Beast I’ve always been a really really emotional/volatile person. When things are going well for the Johnnies I’m yelling and cheering as loud as anyone. When things are going poorly I’m screaming at my TV and throwing shit around my apartment. You should have heard me Saturday night as I flipped back and forth between the Bama game and ours. Lost my voice and my daughter and her friend had to leave the apartment. Im not the kind of guy to temper. That doesn’t mean that my opinion of the team changes from minute to minute or based on the result of one game. We’re gonna have some stinkers, and I’m gonna rant about how we sucked, and then we’re gonna have a lot more games like yesterday where I’ll sing the praises of the kids and the staff to no end. Everyone roots differently, but that doesn’t make anyone more or less a fan than the other.
So for example, those who were very negative on our coaching staff and hero ball after the Seton Hall game might post something very different regarding that game after the Marquette game. Those proclaiming us to have the best starting five and great coaching after the Marquette game might post differently if we don't do as well in Georgetown.
The nature of the game is that winning for fans cures all ills. Losing causes ailments to be diagnosed that simply do not exist.
The truth is somewhere in the middle, leaning one way or another. It should remind us to be balanced the rest of the way.[/quote]
Being critical of how we played the last 10 minutes of the SH game(IE hero ball, etc) and being critical of the staff during that time, was not a case of diaganosing ailments that did not exist. Those ailments very much existed, and will continue to exist(on occasion) if the staff and the team do not make efforts to see that they don’t. The fact we annihilated Marquette doesn’t change my opinion about the how we played against SH or what kind of team we have. The team we saw yesterday is the team that we are capable of being, and should be, on most nights.[/quote]
That wasn't an attack on you. OF course they played poorly in the last quarter of the game. No question. But in college, against good competition, this happens often on the road, where you suddenly stop doing the things you were doing well, the crowd gets into it and all of a sudden your opponent lifts its play. It wasn't bad coaching, and it wasn't really "hero ball", it was the team collectively losing steam on the road. They will play as well or nearly as well as they did vs. Marquette, and also play as poorly as they did for those 8 minutes vs. SH. It's part of basketball to be that good or that bad in isolated situations - it's how teams have a couple of good runs per game.
My point is that to overanalyze it and call it symptomatic of one guy being selfish, the team falling apart, or bad coaching is just as off based as proclaiming us one of the best teams in the country. Now if we player a ton of 8 minute stretches like that, the team sucks and the coaches get fired. If we play 40 minutes like to did vs. Marquette for an entire season, we go to the Final Four, maybe further. But it's just to temper what we see, and just view the season as one long process evens out the highs and lows, kind of like some psychotropic drugs do.[/quote]
Beast I’ve always been a really really emotional/volatile person. When things are going well for the Johnnies I’m yelling and cheering as loud as anyone. When things are going poorly I’m screaming at my TV and throwing shit around my apartment. You should have heard me Saturday night as I flipped back and forth between the Bama game and ours. Lost my voice and my daughter and her friend had to leave the apartment. Im not the kind of guy to temper. That doesn’t mean that my opinion of the team changes from minute to minute or based on the result of one game. We’re gonna have some stinkers, and I’m gonna rant about how we sucked, and then we’re gonna have a lot more games like yesterday where I’ll sing the praises of the kids and the staff to no end. Everyone roots differently, but that doesn’t make anyone more or less a fan than the other.
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